Gary O'Neil - tactics

[old wittonian]

But we have regressed a bit sharpish since opening our innings at United.

Not according to GON.

 

[Bawtry Wolf]

I would love GON to be a massive success and Hobbs to proven absolutely correct in his assessment. That would mean we are still a Premier League team and he has been a success. I would be proved thoroughly wrong and eating several portions of humble pie.

Unfortunately I see absolutely no evidence of being proven wrong. We’re seeing pre and post match interviews that are positively Saundersesq. We’re now having the club getting players saying how we’re improving and the manager has good ideas - a sure sign they know they’re in trouble. But the evidence of our own eyes is that we are getting worse. Clubs have been on terrible runs previously with a new manager who magically turns them around - unfortunately this normally occurs in the lower divisions.

Obviously GON must be good as a coach, he was coaching at Liverpool Academy and they don’t tend to employ idiots. As Hobbs said, his school report from coaching school was very good, if not glowing. But I’m just not getting Head Coach vibes. The great head coaches/managers have an aura, they seem to be able to do the unexpected, get greatness out of the average. What I’m seeing is a head coach who’s got the charisma of a wet weekend in Cleethopes, does the expected and gets insipid out of the good. He’s Colin Lee light in his coaching ability and possibly on a par with Saunders.

 

[Fifty Niner]

Not according to GON.

I know. His views post Palace were far more worrying than his comments post Brighton, that the players move around too much and needed to be in the right positions.

But, given that a chap like Poch is yet to get his ideas over at Chelsea I cling to a hope that our Gaz will inspire our team of mostly foreign and talented individuals into a team with flair. A bit like what Bielsa did at Leeds but with a more solid defence. And, no, I’ve not been on the magic mushrooms and, yes, maybe I should be.

 

[WolfInSheep'sClothing]

Well we’ve now appointed Potter’s successor in Norway and the bloke who couldn’t get Notts County promoted from the Conference (twice) left Forest Green and was at Anderlecht. At least he’s got more managerial experience than O’Neil. They could have saved themselves so much money sticking with Davies.

Davies had the chance once to make the job his own. While he was doing that O'Neill was winning enough games to have a fighting chance of keeping us up.
The comparisons to people that have failed in their job is completely unfair, as the one job he has had he passed.

 

[Chisels_n_ommers]

I really am still wondering if this is because in the event of a sale/buy-out, then the cost of paying them off will be lower overheads for the the new owners. All in all, are we seeing a cheap 'interim' structure.

Either way, it still is really worrying that this is a 'Championship' level managerial set up.

Warnock would have these for breakfast

 

[Munich_Wolf]

We saw the team that had six weeks to prepare against Man United and its been downhill since.

That's a crazy thing for him to say, we had top European coach all summer and we put in a top performance against Man U as a result of that coaching. He's making it sound like we had Steve Davis in charge. It's been downbloodyhill since.

 

[WolfInSheep'sClothing]

I would love GON to be a massive success and Hobbs to proven absolutely correct in his assessment. That would mean we are still a Premier League team and he has been a success. I would be proved thoroughly wrong and eating several portions of humble pie.

Unfortunately I see absolutely no evidence of being proven wrong. We’re seeing pre and post match interviews that are positively Saundersesq. We’re now having the club getting players saying how we’re improving and the manager has good ideas - a sure sign they know they’re in trouble. But the evidence of our own eyes is that we are getting worse. Clubs have been on terrible runs previously with a new manager who magically turns them around - unfortunately this normally occurs in the lower divisions.

Obviously GON must be good as a coach, he was coaching at Liverpool Academy and they don’t tend to employ idiots. As Hobbs said, his school report from coaching school was very good, if not glowing. But I’m just not getting Head Coach vibes. The great head coaches/managers have an aura, they seem to be able to do the unexpected, get greatness out of the average. What I’m seeing is a head coach who’s got the charisma of a wet weekend in Cleethopes, does the expected and gets insipid out of the good. He’s Colin Lee light in his coaching ability and possibly on a par with Saunders.

Maybe we should give him a roll neck and get him to scream in linesmen faces? N
The evidence says we're about the same as last season and you are trying to paint a Saunders narrative, personally I don't think it's there. I've seen Comparisons to Nathan Fraser which are a bit odd too, as he couldn't get a tune out of a squad that was arguably better than Bournemouth's and Davies, when if Davies showed any resemblance of getting results out of this squad he would have probably got the job.
Saunders got Doncaster relegated the season before he was appointed. I don't see any resemblance to him at all. Saunders was a long ball merchant, I'm not seeing any evidence of this so far. In fact we've played some nice stuff but been way too open.

 

[TF2Wolf]

That's a crazy thing for him to say, we had top European coach all summer and we put in a top performance against Man U as a result of that coaching. He's making it sound like we had Steve Davis in charge. It's been downbloodyhill since.

Everyone knows (except seemingly GON) the reasons why Lopetegui left the club and it was nothing to do with his lack of coaching ability.

For me I’d prefer if he was more gracious of the work done by his predecessor and rather than saying about the group improving under his tutelage he would talk more about imprinting his own style on this group of players.

Personally each time he implies he’s been brought in to right the wrongs of the previous coach I lose a little more respect for him.

 

[rincewind]

GON hasn't been managing us for long enough to make a proper judgement but sadly for him, too many of our fans didn't want him and he needs a top 10 finish to get the majority with him. He wouldn't be my choice but I'm prepared to give him a chance. But the vast majority of managers get sacked and his seems inevitable.

 

[goldeneyed]

Will be interested to see how he plays it vs Liverpool and City. The normal backline four will surely get destroyed by them. These matches are crying out for a back three with Santiago Bueno supplementing Dawson and Kilman with Doc and Ait Nouri freed to be a bit more attacking on the wings. Sasa hopefully being given more and more minutes in the second half and even starting within a month. That is our main hope now with Bellegarde hopefully offering an attacking threat from centre midfield. If that doesn't come off we are in trouble .Vs Luton perhaps revert to a back four and get Bellegarde alongside Cunha just behind Sasa or Fabio.

 

[Wolf in the sun]

was Bueno called up on international duty ? if he has Gary has no chance whatsoever to get over what he would want from him

 

[so-called fan]

In many jobs you don't hire an inexperienced nobody for a top/senior/experienced role. This is the premier league, not L1.

I'm reminded of a situation where someone was hired even though the boss was told during the interview process they weren't good enough. They were not good enough. They continued not being good enough after they were hired and eventually had to be let go.

In GON's case he did not do a good job at his last job either. What we have seen so far is an extension of that.

And for the record, out of all the current PL managers with over 10 games of experience, GON is 15th of 16th for stats and barely above 16th, making him literally one of the worst managers in the league.

Almost any PL club would not have even given him an interview with his level of experience and demonstrated ability.

O'Neil did a good job at Bournemouth. More than good, in fact. I would be interested to see the manager stats you are quoting, but the managers with better stats have achieved those stats at clubs that are likely to do well, and I doubt the stats mean what you say they do.

 

[goldeneyed]

I would love GON to be a massive success and Hobbs to proven absolutely correct in his assessment. That would mean we are still a Premier League team and he has been a success. I would be proved thoroughly wrong and eating several portions of humble pie.

Unfortunately I see absolutely no evidence of being proven wrong. We’re seeing pre and post match interviews that are positively Saundersesq. We’re now having the club getting players saying how we’re improving and the manager has good ideas - a sure sign they know they’re in trouble. But the evidence of our own eyes is that we are getting worse. Clubs have been on terrible runs previously with a new manager who magically turns them around - unfortunately this normally occurs in the lower divisions.

Obviously GON must be good as a coach, he was coaching at Liverpool Academy and they don’t tend to employ idiots. As Hobbs said, his school report from coaching school was very good, if not glowing. But I’m just not getting Head Coach vibes. The great head coaches/managers have an aura, they seem to be able to do the unexpected, get greatness out of the average. What I’m seeing is a head coach who’s got the charisma of a wet weekend in Cleethopes, does the expected and gets insipid out of the good. He’s Colin Lee light in his coaching ability and possibly on a par with Saunders.

I think you are being a bit unfair although I agree with some of your comments. The fact is he has had no pre-season with the players and since he has been here has had very little time to implement his ideas. No he does not come across as the new Arsene Wenger but he knows the game and is at the outset of his managerial career having made a pretty good start. He will be around at least until Christmas. If results go really badly I can see him going about then. But if they pick up he will deservedly have the rest of the season to do his thing. Beyond that who knows but many of us would doubt that he will last more than a season or two at most and that some higher profile manager will be appointed.

He has lost a lot of his squad this week and next to international call ups and has to integrate four new players. Its not easy when you have an in form Liverpool coming up never mind Man City soon. At least he has a new coach on board albeit the coaching team overall does not seem to have much star quality compared to other Premier League teams. Hopefully they are adequate for now but the impression of course is of an overall downgrading over the summer and an acceptance that a lower six place is all we can achieve for now. As long as the players are behind him and show it on the field that is all that can be hoped for short term.

I wish him well and I think it is necessary to cut him some slack whatever forebodings we might all have. Despite significant departures and relatively modest arrivals we have a squad that should on paper be able to avoid relegation. Most of us would accept that as things currently stand. Not very inspiring but you can thank Fosun/Shi/the Board for that. For now the likelihood is we will struggle against Liverpool and Man City and perhaps take a point at Luton. So the table will read Played 7 Won 1 Drawn 1 Lost 5. That will mean we are in the bottom 2. Then we hope we can get a couple of wins sooner than later to show there is some hope of improvement under him.

 

[DasWolf]

O'Neil did a good job at Bournemouth. More than good, in fact. I would be interested to see the manager stats you are quoting, but the managers with better stats have achieved those stats at clubs that are likely to do well, and I doubt the stats mean what you say they do.

Such a good job he was immediately sacked, no one else wanted him, and Bournemouth fans were going on about the awful football and exact same issues we are seeing for ourselves.

If he did such a good job, then why do stats not reflect that - especially since most of the games come from the "good job" he did at his former job?

 

[thommo1984]

O'Neil did a good job at Bournemouth. More than good, in fact.

As has been stated numerous times. His side were a statistical anomaly. By every single metric they should have been relegated. It's why he was sacked.

 

[so-called fan]

As has been stated numerous times. His side were a statistical anomaly. By every single metric they should have been relegated. It's why he was sacked.

This is not true. The meme that people use to 'prove' it comes from earlier in the season and only quotes selected stats. It includes the Parker games. And by the metric of points gained they stayed up and deserved to.

You don't know why he was sacked, and neither do I, but new owners often sack the manager and bring their own man in. The manager Foley wanted was unavailable as he was running a contract down. Foley waited and then sacked O'Neil at the end of the season and replaced him within hours. It's very likely that Foley had arranged it all with the new manager in advance, and was committed to sacking O'Neil whether he kept Bournemouth up or not.

 

[Wolf316]

This is not true. The meme that people use to 'prove' it comes from earlier in the season and only quotes selected stats. It includes the Parker games. And by the metric of points gained they stayed up and deserved to.

You don't know why he was sacked, and neither do I, but new owners often sack the manager and bring their own man in. The manager Foley wanted was unavailable as he was running a contract down. Foley waited and then sacked O'Neil at the end of the season and replaced him within hours. It's very likely that Foley had arranged it all with the new manager in advance, and was committed to sacking O'Neil whether he kept Bournemouth up or not.

If he’s so great why are the Bournemouth fans glad to see the back of him?

 

[so-called fan]

Such a good job he was immediately sacked, no one else wanted him, and Bournemouth fans were going on about the awful football and exact same issues we are seeing for ourselves.

If he did such a good job, then why do stats not reflect that - especially since most of the games come from the "good job" he did at his former job?

That table is meaningless, since he was at Bournemouth and the others were not. The sacking was probably pre-arranged. He wasn't out of work long enough to know whether other clubs wanted him, but given he had kept Bournemouth up I think he would have got work pretty soon. Bournemouth fans are pretty similar to our own - the foreign chap with zero English experience is obviously going to be better than the English chap who has just kept them up. They're below us in the table. They might overtake us soon as we have a run of difficult matches, but I would be surprised if we don't finish above them. They've got a new owner and they're trusting him and thinking he knows what he's doing. There are some dissenting voices, but you won't see Wolves fans interviewing the dissenters as it wouldn't fit their narrative.

Oh, and it tells you everything you need to know about Bournemouth fans that many of them are happy to badmouth the chap who kept them up.

 

[bigwolf]

Davies had the chance once to make the job his own. While he was doing that O'Neill was winning enough games to have a fighting chance of keeping us up.
The comparisons to people that have failed in their job is completely unfair, as the one job he has had he passed.

No to see you again Gary

 

[so-called fan]

was Bueno called up on international duty ? if he has Gary has no chance whatsoever to get over what he would want from him

You've probably already seen for yourself, but yes he's been called up. Both Buenos have.

Internationals | Call ups for Cunha and Hugo Bueno

The first international period of the 2023/24 season will see 13 members of Gary O’Neil’s squad represent their countries over the next week.

www.wolves.co.uk

 

[Wolf316]

That table is meaningless, since he was at Bournemouth and the others were not. The sacking was probably pre-arranged. He wasn't out of work long enough to know whether other clubs wanted him, but given he had kept Bournemouth up I think he would have got work pretty soon. Bournemouth fans are pretty similar to our own - the foreign chap with zero English experience is obviously going to be better than the English chap who has just kept them up. They're below us in the table. They might overtake us soon as we have a run of difficult matches, but I would be surprised if we don't finish above them. They've got a new owner and they're trusting him and thinking he knows what he's doing. There are some dissenting voices, but you won't see Wolves fans interviewing the dissenters as it wouldn't fit their narrative.

Oh, and it tells you everything you need to know about Bournemouth fans that many of them are happy to badmouth the chap who kept them up.

I’d guess those Bournemouth fans who watched his godawful dire football week in week out would know a little more about him than you.

 

[Bacon Sandwich]

Part of a Sporting Life article, with no axe to grind.
Defence already a big, big worry...

The Molineux opening was probably the most undesirable job in the Premier League this summer.

With Julen Lopetegui departing, former Cherries boss Gary O'Neil was brave to step in, but it may ultimately be the wrong move from the Wolves board.

Three defeats in their first four games is far from an ideal start for the club. They were promising in the league opener against Manchester United, but were unlucky to come away with nothing.

Losses against Brighton and Crystal Palace most recently have followed, though a 1-0 victory against Everton did offer some respite.

Wolves' dire FFP situation meant that the club had to sell five first-team players, including the likes of Ruben Neves and Matheus Nunes.

In terms of incomings, the club did manage to bag a few signings after sales were made, including Jean-Ricner Bellegarde, Santiago Bueno as well as Paraguayan starlet Enso Gonzalez.

Only Fulham have conceded more expected goals against (xGA) from open play than Wolves’ tally of 6.74 and their tally of eight conceded is the worst in the league alongside Burnley.

Hiring O’Neil feels like a stop-gap appointment at best, and was certainly reactionary after half a season at Bournemouth where they just about survived.

Expect a similarly shaky ride for Wolves this season. Early signs are concerning.

 

[Wolf 82]

If he’s so great why are the Bournemouth fans glad to see the back of him?

Good question.. but I am sure they will soon change their mind if they continue to languish at the bottom after the way they’ve started this season.

Some Wolves fans were glad to see the back of Nuno also.

Fans always think they have the right to get points on the board and watch good football at the same time.. I think most people who watch football expected neither for Bournemouth last season though.

 

[Ned]

In the PL, for good or bad, every club barring us and Luton have somebody in charge who comes across as a manager with some kind of aura and presence about them. I'm not saying that every manager/head coach in the league is better than GON but I'm really not getting manager vibes from him - I'm still getting caretaker manager, sadly.

 

[Skrilla]

Only Fulham have conceded more expected goals against (xGA) from open play than Wolves’ tally of 6.74 and their tally of eight conceded is the worst in the league alongside Burnley.

Exactly why I think we should switch to a back five. Dawson is too slow in a four, Semedo is a liability with his lapses in concentration, RAN/Bueno are average defenders at best, and Kilman looks like a Rolls Royce with more freedom on the left of a five.

Either that, or Toti should start at left back again, but that feels like a monumental waste keeping RAN on the bench given his obvious talent.

 

[Sussex Wolf]

I do genuinely think he’s a caretaker appointment in all but name, with a sale of the club underway or to happen in the coming weeks/months. He’s been through that at Bournemouth last season, so he knows the score, and you could argue he has a better squad at this disposal here than he did there last season, so it would be a fairly logical appointment for Hobbs if so. If correct, then more than likely a new owner would want to appoint their own coaching staff (or reappoint JL). If so, GON gets a chance to further demonstrate he’s able to coach PL clubs, but will be cheap to release if new owners want to appoint someone else quickly.

Either way, he’s our coach, and despite my deep reservations, I truly hope he succeeds while he’s here, however long that may be.

 

[The Clock]

RAN - Vinagre MK 2

 

[DanishWolf]

I think its interesting, that GON's credentials as a coach is wheeled out time and time again to defend this appointment.
I've no doubt he's an excellent coach, and I've no doubt he did well, in the coaching courses. He's no idiot.

But in all this, it seems to forget, that being a coach and being a manager(or headcoach) are two entirely different things these days.

Most good managers today arent necessarily good coaches. They obviously might be able to put together a good session, and they can certainly teach the players a thing or two about anything from shape to individual skills.
However most of all, their assignment is to be the overall visionbuilder. To have clear plan for where they want the team to head, and be able to communicate that clearly to a team of coaches who can implement it in training, and to the players.

And the opposite is true as well of course. Nuno had a good example in his staff, with Ian Cathro. By all accounts an excellent coach, but his time as a manager showed that he was poor at that.

Now of course GON, can become a good manager. But he's learning on the job, and he will make mistakes, simply due to inexperience in that role. In the ideal world, he'd made those mistakes in L1 or the Championship, and then in due time had moved on to a PL job.

So my point is - Him being an excellent coach, really doesnt mean much.

 

[DanishWolf]

I do genuinely think he’s a caretaker appointment in all but name, with a sale of the club underway or to happen in the coming weeks/months. He’s been through that at Bournemouth last season, so he knows the score, and you could argue he has a better squad at this disposal here than he did there last season, so it would be a fairly logical appointment for Hobbs if so. If correct, then more than likely a new owner would want to appoint their own coaching staff (or reappoint JL). If so, GON gets a chance to further demonstrate he’s able to coach PL clubs, but will be cheap to release if new owners want to appoint someone else quickly.

Either way, he’s our coach, and despite my deep reservations, I truly hope he succeeds while he’s here, however long that may be.

Oh how I hope you're right..

 

[Sussex Wolf]

I think its interesting, that GON's credentials as a coach is wheeled out time and time again to defend this appointment.
I've no doubt he's an excellent coach, and I've no doubt he did well, in the coaching courses. He's no idiot.

But in all this, it seems to forget, that being a coach and being a manager(or headcoach) are two entirely different things these days.

Most good managers today arent necessarily good coaches. They obviously might be able to put together a good session, and they can certainly teach the players a thing or two about anything from shape to individual skills.
However most of all, their assignment is to be the overall visionbuilder. To have clear plan for where they want the team to head, and be able to communicate that clearly to a team of coaches who can implement it in training, and to the players.

And the opposite is true as well of course. Nuno had a good example in his staff, with Ian Cathro. By all accounts an excellent coach, but his time as a manager showed that he was poor at that.

Now of course GON, can become a good manager. But he's learning on the job, and he will make mistakes, simply due to inexperience in that role. In the ideal world, he'd made those mistakes in L1 or the Championship, and then in due time had moved on to a PL job.

So my point is - Him being an excellent coach, really doesnt mean much.

Fully agree. Worryingly, similar things were said about Lage too, and look how that panned out.

 

[Zico]

Such a good job he was immediately sacked, no one else wanted him, and Bournemouth fans were going on about the awful football and exact same issues we are seeing for ourselves.

If he did such a good job, then why do stats not reflect that - especially since most of the games come from the "good job" he did at his former job?

That's an absolutely ridiculous set of stats to judge someone on. He is inexperienced and overachieved with a poor Bournemouth side, whose new owners wanted their own man. Just how high up that table would you expect him to be based on one season at Bournemouth?!! Laughable.

 

[The Clock]

Some Wolves fans were glad to see the back of Nuno also.

Many of whom post regularly on here.
Beaker, Rowlf, Waldorf, Rizzo. All using pseudo names of course.
Look where that got us!

 

[Zico]

If he’s so great why are the Bournemouth fans glad to see the back of him?

Doing well aren't they Bournemouth.

 

[sillytuna]

O'Neil did a good job at Bournemouth. More than good, in fact. I would be interested to see the manager stats you are quoting, but the managers with better stats have achieved those stats at clubs that are likely to do well, and I doubt the stats mean what you say they do.

While I agree that you can't compare based on points tallies, he did not do a more than good job there. Their fans consider he did ok and was lucky. He didn't do badly but his football was atrocious anti football. Ours wasn't much better most of the time.

 

[so-called fan]

Part of a Sporting Life article, with no axe to grind.
Defence already a big, big worry...

The Molineux opening was probably the most undesirable job in the Premier League this summer.

With Julen Lopetegui departing, former Cherries boss Gary O'Neil was brave to step in, but it may ultimately be the wrong move from the Wolves board.

Three defeats in their first four games is far from an ideal start for the club. They were promising in the league opener against Manchester United, but were unlucky to come away with nothing.

Losses against Brighton and Crystal Palace most recently have followed, though a 1-0 victory against Everton did offer some respite.

Wolves' dire FFP situation meant that the club had to sell five first-team players, including the likes of Ruben Neves and Matheus Nunes.

In terms of incomings, the club did manage to bag a few signings after sales were made, including Jean-Ricner Bellegarde, Santiago Bueno as well as Paraguayan starlet Enso Gonzalez.

Only Fulham have conceded more expected goals against (xGA) from open play than Wolves’ tally of 6.74 and their tally of eight conceded is the worst in the league alongside Burnley.

Hiring O’Neil feels like a stop-gap appointment at best, and was certainly reactionary after half a season at Bournemouth where they just about survived.

Expect a similarly shaky ride for Wolves this season. Early signs are concerning.

Embarrassing factual errors. 'Half a season at Bournemouth'. Then there's the other bit I've bolded. Burnley have conceded more than us (from fewer matches), so have Fulham, so have Luton (from fewer matches). This bloke doesn't know what he is talking about. Everybody expected Bournemouth to go down last season, and O'Neil kept them up comfortably.

Edit: It reads like it has been written by a Wolves fan.

 

[Wolf316]

Doing well aren't they Bournemouth.

That says they have got the next appointment wrong not that they were wrong to sack O Neil.

 

[Zico]

That says they have got the next appointment wrong not that they were wrong to sack O Neil.

Or that they underestimated how well he did.

 

[Polish Wolf]

Early days but he worryingly seems a mix of Steve Davis and Bruno Lage.

He seems a decent bloke like the former, so the players will at least try to play for him, has got some short history of success (saving Bournemouth) and apparently high coaching skills like the latter but ultimately he is way out of his depth.

I'm afraid this is only going to end in one way, but I'd love to be wrong.

 

[Black Country Wanderer]

Cant see GON being here after Christmas tbh
I know its very early and things change but ive seen nothing so far to fill me with enthusiasm
If he does go who do we bring in?
Potter is an obvious choice,how about Tadesco currently Belgium manager? Any more suggestions?

 

[lets all have a disco]

Cant see GON being here after Christmas tbh
I know its very early and things change but ive seen nothing so far to fill me with enthusiasm
If he does go who do we bring in?
Potter is an obvious choice,how about Tadesco currently Belgium manager? Any more suggestions?

It would probably be Gattuso....so wouldn't get too excited....