Fifa/ Poppies

[rincewind]

Don't get this debate. Almost all the soldiers killed in wars since nation states came along have had no choice in where, when or who they fought. War is terrible thing but you will struggle to find a history of a country who don't have an armed force for a very good reason.
Remembrance should be about the vast mass of ordinary men, who could well have been you or I if we'd been born only a few generations ago. I suspect they were better men (in an old fashioned non PC sense) than many or even most of us.
Debating the morality of their war as if they had a realistic choice is just applying modern morality to historical situations. We may feel that these men were defendin questionable circumstances. These men by and large, did not have that knowledge, opinion or indeed choice.
If you don't like some of Britain's wars, remember the ones you consider good (like WW 2 presumably) or an ancestor or wear a white poppy. Or even just accept that most people do feel a connection and quietly accept that.

 

[astraltrader]

Yep, and the recording should be played on a big screen at the Cenotaph, then watch the so called Great and there Good squirm.

A real great man among many other real Great men and women!

Why do you have to introduce such unpleasantness to a thread that was simply conveying a belief that it was right that our nations football team should wear poppy armbands??

 

[derbyrameater]

Why do you have to introduce such unpleasantness to a thread that was simply conveying a belief that it was right that our nations football team should wear poppy armbands??

You call the Harry Patch video unpleasant, it should be!!!!!

 

[old wittonian]

Just send a recording of last night's Festival of Remembrance to FIFA then it might understand.

 

[Edgmond Wolf]

Look forward to it too, outside of the political posturing.

This in Spades
Some show no respect

 

[Jonzy54]

My dad served .My mom's dad was mustard gassed .My dad loved this day.It always brings a tear to my eye.This is nothing to do with political point scoring and posturing it is about showing Respect .
Respect to one and all who served and gave up their lives.

 

[Edgmond Wolf]

The scouts in the village marched this morning flags showing to the church for this mornings service then marched to the cross in the village to lay a wreath

God bless all of them showing respect to the fallen heroes

 

[Edgmond Wolf]

Superb coverage by BBC of the Queen leading tribute at the Albert Hall last night and the Cenotaph this morning

Respect

 

[Jonzy54]

Superb coverage by BBC of the Queen leading tribute at the Albert Hall last night and the Cenotaph this morning

Respect

Indeed

 

[Soho Wolf]

Went to The Cenotaph today and a young woman, no more than late 20s was there with 2 young children. She was standing right next to me and as the parade went by she was explaining what it meant to the children. "The Woman is marching with all those men because her Husband died." "The children are marching with all those men because their Dad/Granddad died" etc. The children were taking it all in and showing the utmost respect. If you don't get this then there is no hope for you. Personally, I told her what a fantastic job she was doing teaching her children and she replied "thank you, it's the least I can do." There IS hope for the future.

 

[Deleted member 3518]

Went to The Cenotaph today and a young woman, no more than late 20s was there with 2 young children. She was standing right next to me and as the parade went by she was explaining what it meant to the children. "The Woman is marching with all those men because her Husband died." "The children are marching with all those men because their Dad/Granddad died" etc. The children were taking it all in and showing the utmost respect. If you don't get this then there is no hope for you. Personally, I told her what a fantastic job she was doing teaching her children and she replied "thank you, it's the least I can do." There IS hope for the future.

Great post.

 

[Edgmond Wolf]

Went to The Cenotaph today and a young woman, no more than late 20s was there with 2 young children. She was standing right next to me and as the parade went by she was explaining what it meant to the children. "The Woman is marching with all those men because her Husband died." "The children are marching with all those men because their Dad/Granddad died" etc. The children were taking it all in and showing the utmost respect. If you don't get this then there is no hope for you. Personally, I told her what a fantastic job she was doing teaching her children and she replied "thank you, it's the least I can do." There IS hope for the future.

Thank you for posting that

 

[astraltrader]

Went to The Cenotaph today and a young woman, no more than late 20s was there with 2 young children. She was standing right next to me and as the parade went by she was explaining what it meant to the children. "The Woman is marching with all those men because her Husband died." "The children are marching with all those men because their Dad/Granddad died" etc. The children were taking it all in and showing the utmost respect. If you don't get this then there is no hope for you. Personally, I told her what a fantastic job she was doing teaching her children and she replied "thank you, it's the least I can do." There IS hope for the future.

Indeed an uplifting post. Thank you,sir!

 

[RosehillWolf]

My dad served .My mom's dad was mustard gassed .My dad loved this day.It always brings a tear to my eye.This is nothing to do with political point scoring and posturing it is about showing Respect .
Respect to one and all who served and gave up their lives.

My great grandad fought in the Somme, came home, couldn't cope and took his own life. My grandad served in the REME's in WW 2 .... respect indeed and I really shuld do more on remembrance day than sitting on front of the TV with tears streaming down my cheeks
God bless you all

 

[ShropshireLad]

Those who don't grasp the importance of Remembrance Day are diminished. It's not about politics nor jingoism, it's about respect for all dead soldiers who gave their lives for a cause and for those who suffered despite surviving - including the enemy who didn't want to fight but were obliged to otherwise...

I'm eternally grateful for their sacrifice otherwise I/we wouldn't be here.

 

[Very Proud (AKA Still Proud)]

My family didn't arrive in this country from Ireland until just before WW2 and my mom only came over in the early 1960's. Technically I'm somewhere between 1st/2nd generation English. Although my ancestrors didn't really take part in either war nor conflicts since I regard this as my history and my duty to remember, I can do it firstly as a proud Englishman and secondly as a human being with a conscience that mourns the sad loss of life of the many, on all sides, for the political ideals of so few.

They did not die in vain though and we owe it to them to make this a better world for ourselves and generations to come. That is their legacy and this is our debt.

What I think of little old Fifa on this issue, like most of us, is not worth saying on here as it does little to honour those who died for a greater purpose.

 

[derbyrameater]

I deliberately did not post yesterday as it was not the day for me to do so.

The BBC with it's dress code which doesn't exist but they all wear poppies, had Marr interview National Front La Pen on Remembrance Sunday, Bad taste or what? Now that's what I call hypocrisy.

 

[PumpKing]

I deliberately did not post yesterday as it was not the day for me to do so.

The BBC with it's dress code which doesn't exist but they all wear poppies, had Marr interview National Front La Pen on Remembrance Sunday, Bad taste or what? Now that's what I call hypocrisy.

Marr did clearly explain why this interview was aired, he had obviously given it a lot of thought. Whether we agree with Le Pens' views or not, the ones we were honouring yesterday fought and died for her right to speak.
I thought that was the key issue with showing that particular interview.

 

[Deleted member 3604]

There IS hope for the future.

I agree. You can't make the future positive without recognition of the past. I hope these kids grow up and recognise who the winners are in war because it certainly isn't Tommy Atkins. There is nothing heroic about giving your life so some weapons manufacturer gets rich or that we control the flow of oil in the Middle East. Lions led by Donkeys.

 

[derbyrameater]

Marr did clearly explain why this interview was aired, he had obviously given it a lot of thought. Whether we agree with Le Pens' views or not, the ones we were honouring yesterday fought and died for her right to speak.
I thought that was the key issue with showing that particular interview.

There are plenty of free weeks before the French election, I watched Marr give his excuses so why give her such an easy ride? IMO.

 

[PumpKing]

There are plenty of free weeks before the French election, I watched Marr give his excuses so why give her such an easy ride? IMO.

That is an issue I also noticed, he could certainly have taken a far more direct if not a more aggressive approach towards her.
When pressed on the subject she did at least disassociate herself from her fathers views of the Holocaust.

 

[waggys left foot]

Fifa open disciplinary proceedings

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/37972265

 

[AndyY]

So FIFA have instigated a disciplinary imvestigation. I think the English and Scottish FAs should tell them to stick it and announce their immediate withdrawal from the World Cup and FIFA.

 

[Hsvwolf]

Poppies are political ????

Presume Argentina received sanctions!

 

[Ivegotawolvesscarf]

Marr did clearly explain why this interview was aired, he had obviously given it a lot of thought. Whether we agree with Le Pens' views or not, the ones we were honouring yesterday fought and died for her right to speak.
I thought that was the key issue with showing that particular interview.

With all due respect PumpKing those British soldiers fought and died BECAUSE people like Le Pen were given the right to speak.

 

[ricki herberts moustache]

With all due respect PumpKing those British soldiers fought and died BECAUSE people like Le Pen were given the right to speak.

Is Le Pen threatening to invade another country?

Didn't think so.

If you feel you have the right to deny one set of people the right to speak based on their personal beliefs then surely you cannot complain if the same is done to you or other people? Anything less would be hypocrisy.

How anyone say "so and so does not deserve the right to speak or hold an opinion/belief" and at the same time think of themselves as pro freedom/progress is beyond me.

Le Pen is part of France's legally appointed democratic system and Le Pen will only receive a mandate to govern if enough French people vote her in, after all that is how democracy works. How French people decide to vote is their business.

Or do you only like democracy when it delivers results that suit your own agenda?

 

[Wall heath Wanderer]

There's a whole lot of *******s in this thread, mostly coming from the left leaning posters pushing their agendas and spouting **** as usual.

 

[PumpKing]

With all due respect PumpKing those British soldiers fought and died BECAUSE people like Le Pen were given the right to speak.

That is a very interesting and I do take your point.

But with free speech who draws the line between what is acceptable and what is not. With views that I'm sure the vast majority, including me find abhorrent, and the views of others who follow Le Pen and her extremist right wing stand point.
They are all views and opinions, and given everyone's right to freedom of speech, these views have to be heard. This is what those soldiers fought and died for.
It's like everything, it you ban it and sweep it under the carpet you lose sight of what could be going on until it's too late to stop it. Get it out in the open and at least you know what we are up against.

It is up to us to decide what we think is the correct path to take in life, and to ensure that folk like her, and indeed other extremists on both sides of the political fence are kept as far away from any form of power as possible.

We owe this to those who fought and died surely.

 

[Ivegotawolvesscarf]

That is a very interesting and I do take your point.

But with free speech who draws the line between what is acceptable and what is not. With views that I'm sure the vast majority, including me find abhorrent, and the views of others who follow Le Pen and her extremist right wing stand point.
They are all views and opinions, and given everyone's right to freedom of speech, these views have to be heard. This is what those soldiers fought and died for.
It's like everything, it you ban it and sweep it under the carpet you lose sight of what could be going on until it's too late to stop it. Get it out in the open and at least you know what we are up against.

It is up to us to decide what we think is the correct path to take in life, and to ensure that folk like her, and indeed other extremists on both sides of the political fence are kept as far away from any form of power as possible.

We owe this to those who fought and died surely.

I don't want to labour the point because I don't think I disagree with you fundamentally. What sticks in the throat is the idea that those boys went off to die in Europe believing they were doing so to defend the rights of fascists. I know you're trying to defend them as the rights of everybody, which they should be, but I don't think that is why that war was fought.

Interesting to note also that, while free speech is very much protected in the United States, in certain parts of Europe it most definitely illegal to promote Nazi ideology and organise around it, I believe, with good reason...

 

[Ercall Wolves]

Free the Edgemond one

 

[Deleted member 3518]

Free the Edgemond one

This in spades!
Good to see you today.

 

[Ercall Wolves]

This in spades!
Good to see you today.

Good to see you today as well
Nearly got that bottle of cider of you

Message for Mods
God forgives everything and everyone all of time
We as Christians forgive all the time
Free the Edgmond one

 

[Ivegotawolvesscarf]

Is Le Pen threatening to invade another country?

Didn't think so.

If you feel you have the right to deny one set of people the right to speak based on their personal beliefs then surely you cannot complain if the same is done to you or other people? Anything less would be hypocrisy.

How anyone say "so and so does not deserve the right to speak or hold an opinion/belief" and at the same time think of themselves as pro freedom/progress is beyond me.

Le Pen is part of France's legally appointed democratic system and Le Pen will only receive a mandate to govern if enough French people vote her in, after all that is how democracy works. How French people decide to vote is their business.

Or do you only like democracy when it delivers results that suit your own agenda?

I didn't say people like Le Pen shouldn't be given the right to speak, I said that the "speaking" of people who held similar views was the, well documented, direct cause of the deaths British soldiers, some of whom might feel a little aggrieved if their deaths were spun as having been to secure the rights of the people who caused them.

Also, while I don't care what you think about the straw man of censorship and the progressive qualities of people who advocate it and don't want to debate it with you, I can assure you there is nothing "pro freedom/progress" about the National Front.

 

[Wall heath Wanderer]

So fifa want to do Ireland and wales over the use of the poppy, will be interesting to see what action they take seeing as Argentina only got o 20grand fine for the flag about the Falkland islands a couple of years ago.

 

[ShropshireLad]

There's a whole lot of *******s in this thread, mostly coming from the left leaning posters pushing their agendas and spouting **** as usual.

Really?

I find it a very strange thing to say that it's only

left leaning posters pushing their agendas and spouting **** as usual

who oppose fascism.

 

[ShropshireLad]

I didn't say people like Le Pen shouldn't be given the right to speak,

I can assure you there is nothing "pro freedom/progress" about the National Front.

I agree with this. Far better to have freedom of speech to make the electorate aware of what they're letting themselves in for through challenging their arguments. A society that doesn't have free speech and freedom to publish is dangerous. I would not want to live in a right wing nor a left wing fascist society.

 

[maws]

I'm left leaning, I support the poppy and my grandad was in the Royal Marines in ww2 and my great grandad a stretcher bearer at Ypres in ww1 so I take exception to wall heaths point of view!

Typical tho, stereotypes that the left can't be patriotic! George Orwell was very patriotic, he was a socialist, and his 2 most famous books are attacking the far left in Russia (tho could as easily be fascism)

Stop spouting the *******s about what the left are, we are each our own person

 

[Jonzy54]

All 4 home nations fined nearly £80,000 combined for Poppygate.
If they were remotely decent they would donate the money to Charity .

 

[RosehillWolf]

Hope we show some sort of back bone and tell them to shove it up their ****

 

[Simmowolf]

Fines for the home nations..

http://news.sky.com/story/england-a...earing-poppies-in-football-qualifier-10702281