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Fifa/ Poppies

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wolvesultra

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Mutchy said:
I'm pretty sure I read that they wouldn't be yesterday, but would be doing so at another match.
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Really? When though we dont play again till 19th.

Quite funny people feel so strongly against FIFA for the whole debacle with England but not mentioned their own team not wearing one?
 
W

wolvesultra

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Mutchy said:
Yes, we'll be wearing them on the 19th. http://www.wolves.co.uk/news/article/2016-17/read-annual-remembrance-fixture-3398027.aspx
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Really makes no sense to me that over a week after. Also that article states as per EFL guidelines but plenty of other clubs wor them yesterday.

But to be honest none of it makes sense to me id rather see players wearing them on their way in and out on their own clothes because feel its something important they personally should make a choice to do so.....rather than wearing them on a top because its sewn on when they're handed them.
 
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Mutchy

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Says it's according to efl guidelines. I'd sooner see one officially designated weekend where clubs pay their respects, whether home or away.
 
Big Saft Kid

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wolvesultra said:
Really makes no sense to me that over a week after. Also that article states as per EFL guidelines but plenty of other clubs wor them yesterday.

But to be honest none of it makes sense to me id rather see players wearing them on their way in and out on their own clothes because feel its something important they personally should make a choice to do so.....rather than wearing them on a top because its sewn on when they're handed them.
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+1. 'Officially designated remembrance' isn't remembrance. Remembrance is a personal thing, it's the individual person who remembers, not officialdom remembering for us on our behalf.
 
Mutchy

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Big Saft Kid said:
+1. 'Officially designated remembrance' isn't remembrance. Remembrance is a personal thing, it's the individual person who remembers, not officialdom remembering for us on our behalf.
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But if football as a whole in this country is going to pay its respects, it is far more powerful to do it together on one weekend, as opposed to the dribs and drabs we are seeing this year. Clubs do something at home, and then the next match again when their opponents take their turn to be at home... its too messy and loses impact in its repetition.
In any case, most formal remembrance is officially designated - a time when as a nation or a particular group of people we come together in an outward show of respect. That doesn't - or needn't - detract from more private thoughts at any time, the two can easily sit alongside each other.
 
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wolvesultra

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Edgmond Wolf said:
It is an interesting article but the open letter to FIFA from the British Legion summed it up for me...it is not political but a sign of respect to the fallen
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I think that's the issue Edgmond according to the British Legion its not political and I agree it shouldn't be. Unfortunatly it has been hijacked to be used as a political symbol by the right wing media and jingoistic flag waivers, who are just looking for a reason to be offended but will ironically forget to buy a poppy.....its ok though cuz they've posted 25 different pro poppy images on facebook and changed their banner.

I'm wearing a poppy as we speak as I try to take it as originally intended. However, the more and more its hijacked by these 'poppy nazi's' (irony at its finest) I'm thinking next year I may well make a donation to the British legion but choose not to wear one......very sad but thats how I feel.
 
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Edgmond Wolf

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wolvesultra said:
I think that's the issue Edgmond according to the British Legion its not political and I agree it shouldn't be. Unfortunatly it has been hijacked to be used as a political symbol by the right wing media and jingoistic flag waivers, who are just looking for a reason to be offended but will ironically forget to buy a poppy.....its ok though cuz they've posted 25 different pro poppy images on facebook and changed their banner.

I'm wearing a poppy as we speak as I try to take it as originally intended. However, the more and more its hijacked by these 'poppy nazi's' (irony at its finest) I'm thinking next year I may well make a donation to the British legion but choose not to wear one......very sad but thats how I feel.
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I am wearing mine too mate
as you say it is sad if you are made to feel that way
I am lucky on the 11/11 I have been invited to the RAF Club in London...I will be with people who actually care...looking forward to it
 
Soho Wolf

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I will be at The Cenotaph on the 13th. No embroidery on my clothes, no flag, no political messages. Just me, my thoughts and a poppy on my chest. Listen to the last post and remember the fallen. Why does it need to be any more complicated than that?
 
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Honved

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To be honest I find the whole manufactured nature of the debate to be disrespectful. I'm not meaning anyone here in this conversation -because we're all commenting on something that, rightly or wrongly, is in the news- but the issue itself has been created out of nothing.

If people want to wear a poppy, if people don't want to wear a poppy, if people want to think of loved ones, or remember strangers who died in service....any of that is a personal choice. And as a nation there is no shortage of remembrance services that pay respect to the fallen. But this issue is debated as if we have a long tradition of teams wearing poppies. We don't. Teams didn't wear them in the 50's, 50's, 70's, 80's or 90's. This has cropped up in the last 6-7 years and, much like whenever the sports media loses it's mind over whether two famous players are going to shake hands in a pre match ritual that has only recently become important, it's all manufactured to make people angry.

In addition, there was no need for FIFA to be consulted. The English FA sought -and got- permission back in 2011 for the team to wear a black armband with a poppy on it. For some reason, despite already having permission to do something that had shown the respects to the fallen, somebody at the FA felt the need to write to FIFA again asking for something else. And someone else then felt the need to report Ireland for having something on their shirts in a very playground 'well if they did it, why can't we..' forcing them to act.

All, really, so that politicians can curry favour at this tense time, so that tabloids can sell copies, and so that people can get angry and argue over an issue that didn't exist a decade ago. And, to my mind, that cynical approach to whipping up controversy is far more disrespectful to the fallen than anything FIFA have said.
 
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Edgmond Wolf

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Honved said:
To be honest I find the whole manufactured nature of the debate to be disrespectful. I'm not meaning anyone here in this conversation -because we're all commenting on something that, rightly or wrongly, is in the news- but the issue itself has been created out of nothing.

If people want to wear a poppy, if people don't want to wear a poppy, if people want to think of loved ones, or remember strangers who died in service....any of that is a personal choice. And as a nation there is no shortage of remembrance services that pay respect to the fallen. But this issue is debated as if we have a long tradition of teams wearing poppies. We don't. Teams didn't wear them in the 50's, 50's, 70's, 80's or 90's. This has cropped up in the last 6-7 years and, much like whenever the sports media loses it's mind over whether two famous players are going to shake hands in a pre match ritual that has only recently become important, it's all manufactured to make people angry.

In addition, there was no need for FIFA to be consulted. The English FA sought -and got- permission back in 2011 for the team to wear a black armband with a poppy on it. For some reason, despite already having permission to do something that had shown the respects to the fallen, somebody at the FA felt the need to write to FIFA again asking for something else. And someone else then felt the need to report Ireland for having something on their shirts in a very playground 'well if they did it, why can't we..' forcing them to act.

All, really, so that politicians can curry favour at this tense time, so that tabloids can sell copies, and so that people can get angry and argue over an issue that didn't exist a decade ago. And, to my mind, that cynical approach to whipping up controversy is far more disrespectful to the fallen than anything FIFA have said.
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Interesting point mate

Certainly got me thinking and I am very patriotic

I will be visiting London on Friday to show my respects
 
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ombyman

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Ok, I understand the point the football365 is making. But it is merely a thought provoking journo trying to prove how clever they are. The key word is remembrance, on another day we all say how clueless and self centred young footballers are, so can it hurt to encourage them to remember lads the same age, and in some cases football players who faced horrific horrors instead of wearing diamond earings? This notion of rebelling against the media, politicians etc is helping them devalue our rememberance. And this idea of it all being a modern phenomenon is correct, maybe this is to do with it being the centenary of WW1? And the fact that many of the secrets of WW1 and WW2 have only recently been revealed, and that conditions such as PTSD are only recently understood. I know of many men killed or wounded in Korea, Malaya, Cyprus and other forgotten wars in the perceived era of 'poopy normalness' who were forgotten. So I think we are doing the right thing now. And of course anyone who doesn't want to get involved doesn't have to!
 
derbyrameater

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ombyman said:
Ok, I understand the point the football365 is making. But it is merely a thought provoking journo trying to prove how clever they are. The key word is remembrance, on another day we all say how clueless and self centred young footballers are, so can it hurt to encourage them to remember lads the same age, and in some cases football players who faced horrific horrors instead of wearing diamond earings? This notion of rebelling against the media, politicians etc is helping them devalue our rememberance. And this idea of it all being a modern phenomenon is correct, maybe this is to do with it being the centenary of WW1? And the fact that many of the secrets of WW1 and WW2 have only recently been revealed, and that conditions such as PTSD are only recently understood. I know of many men killed or wounded in Korea, Malaya, Cyprus and other forgotten wars in the perceived era of 'poopy normalness' who were forgotten. So I think we are doing the right thing now. And of course anyone who doesn't want to get involved doesn't have to!
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Not a good idea IMO to bring up our 'Colonial' wars.
 
E

Edgmond Wolf

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FIFA banning Wales from displaying poppy on the shirt for their game too
 
D

Deleted member 3518

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Edgmond Wolf said:
FIFA banning Wales from displaying poppy on the shirt for their game too
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Only right how dare they wear a symbol of remembrance for the fallen, after all they were involved in the Battle of Rorke's Drift.:(
 
Wonder Boyo

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My brother had his leg blown off in the first Gulf War and now donates to the British Legion but no longer wears a poppy because he feels it's been hijacked by the far right and the jingoistic Murdoch press. I'm wearing a poppy again this year but with the rise of nationalism, the far right, and hate crime it's making me pause for thought. Since Brexit the National Front have been protesting in Newcastle every Saturday (they even abused me for wearing a Welsh football shirt in Newcastle in the middle of the Euros), and last weekend they had a giant poppy on display. Made me sick to my stomach.
 
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Deleted member 3518

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Wonder Boyo said:
My brother had his leg blown off in the first Gulf War and now donates to the British Legion but no longer wears a poppy because he feels it's been hijacked by the far right and the jingoistic Murdoch press. I'm wearing a poppy again this year but with the rise of nationalism, the far right, and hate crime it's making me pause for thought. Since Brexit the National Front have been protesting in Newcastle every Saturday (they even abused me for wearing a Welsh football shirt in Newcastle in the middle of the Euros), and last weekend they had a giant poppy on display. Made me sick to my stomach.
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Totally despicable behaviour which is why the need to reclaim it from extremists as with the Union flag and anything else they try to hijack to promote their vile views and that should apply to all extremist groups, whatever their persuasion.
 
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Edgmond Wolf

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Rhoswolf said:
Only right how dare they wear a symbol of remembrance for the fallen, after all they were involved in the Battle of Rorke's Drift.:(
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Exactly
We really should tell FIFA to foxtrot oscar
If we do not wear a poppy on Friday last time I bother watching England
 
M

Mr Wolf

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I don't buy all this should be a personal choice, if you're against it then yes but if you're just clueless as most footballers are then that choice should be made for them.
 
ricki herberts moustache

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wolvesultra said:
A very very good article on the whole thing:

http://www.football365.com/news/fifa-right-on-poppies-they-are-political
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Not having political symbols on football shirts is a simple, sensible rule to have. It’s not an insult to anyone. On the day there’ll be other collective respectful recognition of the sacrifices made, and you can choose to wear your poppy at the game, or wherever and whenever you want, but there is no virtue in forcing it upon anyone, let alone footballers, in what sometimes feels like little more than a bullying exercise in competitive compassion.
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Yes heaven forbid someone gets insulted :rolleyes:

If someone finds a poppy "insulting" they need to get a grip imo. What is it with the west? so scared of doing anything that may insult someone. Grow a pair, honestly.

"ohhhh I'm feeling triggered"
 
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Edgmond Wolf

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ricki herberts moustache said:
Yes heaven forbid someone gets insulted :rolleyes:

If someone finds a poppy "insulting" they need to get a grip imo. What is it with the west? so scared of doing anything that may insult someone. Grow a pair, honestly.

"ohhhh I'm feeling triggered"
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This in Spades

It is a poppy
If you are insulted by a poppy
Then tough ****
 
ricki herberts moustache

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Edgmond Wolf said:
This in Spades

It is a poppy
If you are insulted by a poppy
Then tough ****
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Exactly.

In WW1 brave young men going forward into battle for Queen and Country and you may disagree with war but you cannot deny that these boys showed extraordinary courage and many of them paid the ultimate price. Unless you were there I don't think you can truly comprehend what these boys went through.

One hundred years and a few generations later and what have we got?

The only warriors around these days are keyboard warriors tapping away from their "safe space" and telling us how offended they are by a poppy being on a football shirt.

"its political" they cry! No its not its a poppy and its to remember all the poor souls who lost their lives in war and in conditions we cannot even begin to imagine. Show some respect.

You couldn't make this cr@p up
 
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Edgmond Wolf said:
Exactly
We really should tell FIFA to foxtrot oscar
If we do not wear a poppy on Friday last time I bother watching England
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I agree wear the poppy and do not pay the fine, FIFA represents corruption the poppy represents sacrifice, if they do pay the fine to that bunch of criminals im done with the F.A
 
astraltrader

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derbyrameater said:
Not a good idea IMO to bring up our 'Colonial' wars.
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Our brave soldiers who died in Malaysia were not involved in a colonial war but helping the Malaysians keep their country safe from Chinese communist guerrillas. The Malaysians asked for our help FGS.
Also our brave servicemen who died in Korea were fighting under the auspices of the United Nations alongside a coalition of many other countries. Not remotely a colonial war.
It helps if you know what you are talking about. :(
 
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