Bust up

[YouGottaRaulWithIt]

Bruno is going on his hols with Mr messy.

 

[Deleted member drgr12429]

Maybe, but it's not like they ever make those passes to lose that trust. If a pass does goes in it's usually way later once the space has been closed down and hard for them to really do much. Plus all they do if they don't make the pass is lose possession in a worse place on the field anyway!

In fairness you have a point.

 

[Jonzy54]

That picture doesn't mean anything. It could have been from when they all had a break a few weeks back.
This kind of stuff doesn't help anyone.

I saw the original when the guy in the pic posted it .It doesn’t mean anything really anyway

 

[YouGottaRaulWithIt]

Bruno is going on his hols with Mr messy.
View attachment 27753

Sorry, would ha e worked better with the original link.

 

[Jefe]

I feel bad for saying it, but what has Lage bought to the table?

He was going to change the style into a more possession based approach, but he hasn't.

He was going to bring the kids through. OK Kilman has done well, but Cundle clearly (whatever some believe) isn't ready and nobody else has really had a chance (maybe Silva but the less said the better). Maybe there are issues, but publically throwing Hoever under the bus wasn't smart.

We were going to press higher, but we simply don't have players who are mobile enough.

We were going to develop and improve, but we've got slowly worse.

We did get quite dour, deep block, but deadly on the counter. Now how do we play? Still 5 at the back, but no pace in attack?

I guess some will say that's a recruitmemt/investment issue, but the buck always stops with the manager. I think I'm convinced now he's not the man. Maybe Fosun will decide Jeff's days are up too?

I think had goals against more closely aligned with xG against (i.e. if Jose Sa wasn't such a revelation), we'd be much closer to last season's position. Did I read right that, barring Villa Park, not only have we lost every game we've gone behind in, we've not even scored a goal? That is a revolting statistic, seeing as we were the comeback kings two years ago.

 

[Timberwolf]

In terms of a fall out, we all know that managers are the fall guys at a club and so, as Lord Sugar tells us, it is with some regret but thanks for your efforts Bruno but don't let the door hit your backside on the way out.

HUGE summer ahead now. Can see a complete rebuild needed - e.g. would you sign a deal at present if you were Mouts?

I wouldn’t offer him one. Love the guy but £100k in wages can be spent on a younger guy in midfield.

 

[Deleted member drgr12429]

I think had goals against more closely aligned with xG against (i.e. if Jose Sa wasn't such a revelation), we'd be much closer to last season's position. Did I read right that, barring Villa Park, not only have we lost every game we've gone behind in, we've not even scored a goal? That is a revolting statistic, seeing as we were the comeback kings two years ago.

On the latter you are correct. Won more points from losing positions than anyone a couple of seasons ago. No way would people leave the ground until the final whistle then.
You have to hope Jeff Shi was watching and listening yesterday. It would have been very sobering for him.

 

[Contrarian]

I think had goals against more closely aligned with xG against (i.e. if Jose Sa wasn't such a revelation), we'd be much closer to last season's position. Did I read right that, barring Villa Park, not only have we lost every game we've gone behind in, we've not even scored a goal? That is a revolting statistic, seeing as we were the comeback kings two years ago.

That is getting repeated endlessly and while not a good stat, I'm not sure it's all *that* important. Is it already forgotten that we were the team who "Never Score In the First Half"? Surely an equally damning state of affairs? Both say something about how we play. And I reckon, both are connected. Two sides of the same coin. Two aspects of the same core squad. We never scored in the first half because we were cautious, dull and (especially last season) unprepared for opponents. That left us often with the mountain to climb as we were never winning.

I remember midway through our second PL season, them saying we had been in the lead for something like only 30 minutes of the 15 or so matches played at that point. Basically, if we did win, we scored late after an often dismal first 60 - 70 minutes. Another revolting statistic? We were still top half the table though and thats' what counts.

That is the identity of this squad. We were the comeback kings because we were lazy, slow starters who did the bare minimum to win a match. Grind opponents down then hit them on the break with a flash of inspiration from Raul/Jota/Doc/Adama. It's the same squad now - only weakened because the new signings aren't even a quarter as effective as the players they replaced. But apparently now they have to "play stylish front foot football". With non-goal scoring attackers bought on the cheap and the same defence and midfield from the day we got promoted and carefully built to play as described above. i.e. stay in the game then snatch something at the death. And that worked as we became the most succesful newly promoted club in decades.

TLDR Same squad, push them in different ways, the weaknesses show in different ways. It used to be we couldn't score in the first half, now it's we can't get back into matches. All that matters is points on the board.

 

[wwbug]

A bit like buying a new car and wondering why it's knackered after 5/6 years and will cost a fortune to replace.

I always think the spinning plates analogy works.
You need constant momentum , first a wobble and then a CRASH ! And there are bits all over the floor . Very costly .

 

[Ginger Chimp]

What I don’t get is If this has happened then surely main stream media would be all over it as I am sure they have got their ‘sources’ in clubs…..but nothing…anywhere???

Coz they don’t care and we don’t warrant a mention.

 

[DanishWolf]

Can't agree entirely with that, first half I paid particular attention to what Silva and Hwang were doing, they continually made runs into space but those behind them either dawdling on the ball or simply not even looking forward to play the pass. They were clear open options but the mentality isn't there to make those passes.

Fair enough..
And you're probably right about the mentality

 

[wwbug]

Is that true? I hate to admit that I like to hear gossip Well, something didn't look right last season. And after looking good and together for most of this, the last month hasn't looked "right" either. Trying to equate it with my (very different) profession. But when you don't want to be there, try as hard as you like to maintain that professional demenour, it's never the same. You make mistakes and start to drift down to less than your maximum potential. Just human nature. I guess this is what good managers are appointed to deal with, though.

Professional footballers . An oxymoron ?

 

[sedgwolf1980]

Slightly off topic, but majority of Wolves fans on Twitter with more than c.1000 followers do by and large turn out to be self important muppets. The status and credibility some of these clowns get does bemuse me.

In the real world, they are viewed as nerds, online they are heralded as heroes.

Truly strange place is Twitter.

 

[NottsWolves]

Pretty certain I’ve seen that photo of him at the airport a few weeks ago. Therefore I think someone is **** stirring.

 

[wwbug]

Completely and 100% agree.

One of my favourite sayings is how if you have a problem with everyone in life.....there's one common demoninator - you!

Seems that the same logic needs to be applied to our players if so.

I agree . My same belief. Keeps me sane .

But is Bruno the one and the players are the many. Making Bruno the problem ?

 

[wwbug]

Don’t worry - . Scott Sellars is ready and tooled up to rebuild this squad .

 

[Deleted member drgr12429]

Pretty certain I’ve seen that photo of him at the airport a few weeks ago. Therefore I think someone is **** stirring.

Which was my point too.

 

[wwbug]

Was looking forward todays game….got up for the 7am start, coffee in hand and watched this terrible performance.
And now, the news is getting worse by the bloody minute.

What a difference a few hours makes.

Looking forward to it after our last few matches was the big mistake.

 

[CologneWolf]

But is Bruno the one and the players are the many. Making Bruno the problem ?

Definitely more players than there is Brunos

 

[old wittonian]

The lack of leadership on the pitch yesterday was amazing. Where was the vocal Coady.
As some have said, and it wasn't just yesterday, Bruno is waving players forward and they pass back to Coady. These are mostly seasoned internationals. What are they playing at.

 

[SmokeyGB]

I want to know who makes the Wolves subs..
Someone claimed last week that Bruno doesn't make the changes on good authority.

Cannot remember who made that claim.

 

[ma77smith]

Don’t worry - . Scott Sellars is ready and tooled up to rebuild this squad .

He’s a tool alright!!

 

[Peszkywolf]

The lack of leadership on the pitch yesterday was amazing. Where was the vocal Coady.
As some have said, and it wasn't just yesterday, Bruno is waving players forward and they pass back to Coady. These are mostly seasoned internationals. What are they playing at.

They're playing for the shirt, I'll find it hard to sing a Johnny Otto song again, and the Raul song, he can do one too. They had a good chance to better a stretched West Ham side to 7th.....and they've stopped playing. Sell the lot if they've stopped playing.

 

[Supadavewolf]

Can't agree entirely with that, first half I paid particular attention to what Silva and Hwang were doing, they continually made runs into space but those behind them either dawdling on the ball or simply not even looking forward to play the pass. They were clear open options but the mentality isn't there to make those passes.

Spot on.

 

[Ponty]

The lack of leadership on the pitch yesterday was amazing. Where was the vocal Coady.
As some have said, and it wasn't just yesterday, Bruno is waving players forward and they pass back to Coady. These are mostly seasoned internationals. What are they playing at.

Coady is always calling for the ball and increasingly gets it as players opt for the safe option. It makes us so easy to play against, it’s the opposite of the Blitzkrieg approach with Jota and Raul breaking fast.

 

[Contrarian]

"It's our ball and we'll kick it around the edge of our own penalty area for an hour if we want to"
"I don't care if it poses no threat because every other team knows it by now, if I want to play a slow, hanging 50 yard pass to a wing back, then I will and you can't stop me, Mr Lage. "

 

[CologneWolf]

I want to know who makes the Wolves subs..
Someone claimed last week that Bruno doesn't make the changes on good authority.

Cannot remember who made that claim.

There you go.

Because Bruno does not make the call on subs. You all might think it strange. I have good inside info on this. I’ll say no more

 

[Supadavewolf]

There you go.

I, like many on here, have doubts about Bruno's team selection and in-game management, but I find it hard to believe that he wouldn't determine who comes on and when.

 

[CologneWolf]

I, like many on here, have doubts about Bruno's team selection and in-game management, but I find it hard to believe that he wouldn't determine who comes on and when.

Nor I, absolute codswallop.

This was in the Burnley comms. The OP never replied once to at least a dozen posts. Figured he was bored trying to wind a few up.

 

[jonesy]

Sentiment aside Lage is dead right to have a go at jiminez and others if they aren’t pulling their weight.

 

[Jefe]

That is getting repeated endlessly and while not a good stat, I'm not sure it's all *that* important. Is it already forgotten that we were the team who "Never Score In the First Half"? Surely an equally damning state of affairs? Both say something about how we play. And I reckon, both are connected. Two sides of the same coin. Two aspects of the same core squad. We never scored in the first half because we were cautious, dull and (especially last season) unprepared for opponents. That left us often with the mountain to climb as we were never winning.

I remember midway through our second PL season, them saying we had been in the lead for something like only 30 minutes of the 15 or so matches played at that point. Basically, if we did win, we scored late after an often dismal first 60 - 70 minutes. Another revolting statistic? We were still top half the table though and thats' what counts.

That is the identity of this squad. We were the comeback kings because we were lazy, slow starters who did the bare minimum to win a match. Grind opponents down then hit them on the break with a flash of inspiration from Raul/Jota/Doc/Adama. It's the same squad now - only weakened because the new signings aren't even a quarter as effective as the players they replaced. But apparently now they have to "play stylish front foot football". With non-goal scoring attackers bought on the cheap and the same defence and midfield from the day we got promoted and carefully built to play as described above. i.e. stay in the game then snatch something at the death. And that worked as we became the most succesful newly promoted club in decades.

TLDR Same squad, push them in different ways, the weaknesses show in different ways. It used to be we couldn't score in the first half, now it's we can't get back into matches. All that matters is points on the board.

It's a bad stat because its implication goes beyond just the tactical, and into the realm of bottle and will to get back into the match.
To have not equalised once this season is unreal.

 

[Contrarian]

It's a bad stat because its implication goes beyond just the tactical and into the realm of questionable bottle and will to get back into the match.

Yes, though mostly, I don't see lack of bottle in this squad (there was yesterday, though). I see limitations that were worked around by the previous way of playing but are exposed by trying to play more open. I don't think it's the lack of bottle that prevents our forwards from beating defenders to crosses, high or low. It's lack of ability. Similar with fast one touch passing. Donk, Coady, even Neves , just can't play that way.

So when we are a goal down, opponents can commit a little less forward, knowing we are unlikely to break them down. When we did manage to do turnarounds, certain names keep cropping up - Jota, Doc, Raul, Adama . We don't have them, or not at the level they performed then. If Fabio or Hwang charges around, they aren't going to save us, they are going to make mistakes and get sent off. Lack of ability, not bottle.

 

[JH1902]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1520801192888225792

 

[DanishWolf]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1520801192888225792

So a change is obviously needed...
Usually in these cases the manager goes, but we need a serious overhaul

 

[jrpb-3]

I think had goals against more closely aligned with xG against (i.e. if Jose Sa wasn't such a revelation), we'd be much closer to last season's position. Did I read right that, barring Villa Park, not only have we lost every game we've gone behind in, we've not even scored a goal? That is a revolting statistic, seeing as we were the comeback kings two years ago.

not sure comeback kings is quite a fair assessment of then. I seem to remember the stats on the % of games we came from behind to get points in was very good, but was only over very few games as we didn't go behind in very many at all, so in terms of number of games we came from behind in it wasn't very many (as we didn't need to)

 

[Jefe]

not sure comeback kings is quite a fair assessment of then. I seem to remember the stats on the % of games we came from behind to get points in was very good, but was only over very few games as we didn't go behind in very many at all, so in terms of number of games we came from behind in it wasn't very many (as we didn't need to)

We won 21 points from losing positions that season, the most of any team in the league.

Premier League - Points after falling behind 19/20

This overview ranks the numbers of matches in the Premier League in the 19/20 season, in which a club fell behind and how many points were gained afterwards.

www.transfermarkt.co.uk

 

[Supadavewolf]

not sure comeback kings is quite a fair assessment of then. I seem to remember the stats on the % of games we came from behind to get points in was very good, but was only over very few games as we didn't go behind in very many at all, so in terms of number of games we came from behind in it wasn't very many (as we didn't need to)

Not sure you're correct.

20/21 season.

22 deficits, 21 points gained (W4 D9 L9) (source: Transfermkt) - best in the league.

This season, 3 points gained - worst in the league.

Something seriously wrong somewhere.

 

[steve vena]

Think that's just people moaning because he's injured again. Bit of 2+2=5 on that one, as Radiohead say.

Great band mate.

 

[TheConcourse]

That’ll explain why they’ve defaulted to Nunoball.

 

[oldgold4ever]

Whether the board back will Bruno’s hard line with the players or fire him is the crucial point to be played out.