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Footymum

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Oldgold Wolfcub said:
I only saw the second half and usually I try to look for something positive but this time NOTHING. We were absolutely pathetic. I know a lot of time some of you praise James Collins but this was down to him and the poor coaching. Our body shape spells defeat. There only ever looked like one team wanted to play and it was not us. Never on the front foot, never in control of the ball, needing one or even two touches to slow the ball down to enable Blackburn to win it. Hardly threatening their goal. Overpasses, underpasses, loosing the ball.
Yes that is all down to poor coaching.
Sorry if I seem to be sitting on the fence on this one.:rolleyes:
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I actually think James Collins doesn't have a say with how he plays the team or what position they play to a certain extent he is definitely being told what to do when players come down from the first team hence all the different positions Hesketh plays & farmer not always being a starter if Enzo plays so don't think it's him getting it wrong it's above him they want to develop a player at the club not a team I think he has a done a good job
 
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Man City won the u21 league easily last season scoring 80 goals, they’re struggling big time this season and are now bottom after Blackburns win

My point being is even with a pipeline as strong as Man C, you take key ‘Senior’ (older) academy players out (they’ve sold a few and taking others in first team squad) and replace with younger more inexperienced results will suffer. We’ve lost Roberts, Fraser, Hodge (to a degree), Pond, Chem (to a degree), Lembikisa this season. Results will be up and down

Blackburn aren’t mugs either and I warned as much pre kick off.
 
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giantwolf said:
Man City won the u21 league easily last season scoring 80 goals, they’re struggling big time this season and are now bottom after Blackburns win

My point being is even with a pipeline as strong as Man C, you take key ‘Senior’ (older) academy players out (they’ve sold a few and taking others in first team squad) and replace with younger more inexperienced results will suffer. We’ve lost Roberts, Fraser, Hodge (to a degree), Pond, Chem (to a degree), Lembikisa this season. Results will be up and down

Blackburn aren’t mugs either and I warned as much pre kick off.
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Results are always all over the place with the u21s particularly in November and December...I comment on it every year ...all the different competitions, changing starting line ups, trying to give minute to everyone .... including some who probably won't be here after January for different reasons ...players training with the first team, missing games cause they are on the bench etc. .

It's all calms down about February time and the managers starts picking a settled side because he has a settled group and results normally pick up ..

The main focus is development though ....although its been a very up and down period some players will have benefitted from it..,..I think the one who has the most is Marvin Kaleta.....had a decent couple of months progression after basically being chucked in because of an injury....I always ignore the results and look for a positive with the kids .

Some won't be here after January I reckon..... Jordao being one...
 
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AndyWolves

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giantwolf said:
Man City won the u21 league easily last season scoring 80 goals, they’re struggling big time this season and are now bottom after Blackburns win

My point being is even with a pipeline as strong as Man C, you take key ‘Senior’ (older) academy players out (they’ve sold a few and taking others in first team squad) and replace with younger more inexperienced results will suffer. We’ve lost Roberts, Fraser, Hodge (to a degree), Pond, Chem (to a degree), Lembikisa this season. Results will be up and down

Blackburn aren’t mugs either and I warned as much pre kick off.
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I don't disagree with you, however, the boys can play much much better than they did last night.

They got nowhere near doing themselves justice. Who knows, maybe they got a little complacent?
 
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AndyWolves said:
I don't disagree with you, however, the boys can play much much better than they did last night.

They got nowhere near doing themselves justice. Who knows, maybe they got a little complacent?
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They are kids...it's to be expected....the line up changes every game, it's not settled.... different formations... different players in different positions that's why you get no consistency in performance.....players off training with the first team, being on the bench it all adds up .....

That's why you can go from Brazil to Barnsley in the space of a few weeks.....
 
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AndyWolves said:
I don't disagree with you, however, the boys can play much much better than they did last night.

They got nowhere near doing themselves justice. Who knows, maybe they got a little complacent?
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I agree with that too, absolutely
 
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Oldgold Wolfcub

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Footymum said:
I actually think James Collins doesn't have a say with how he plays the team or what position they play to a certain extent he is definitely being told what to do when players come down from the first team hence all the different positions Hesketh plays & farmer not always being a starter if Enzo plays so don't think it's him getting it wrong it's above him they want to develop a player at the club not a team I think he has a done a good job
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I dont disagree with you that he may have that brief to work within. What I am talking about is the coaching skills and the mindset that goes with it. Do you for example think he is told that the players should deliberately slow down with the ball and maybe give it two or three touches to enable the oppos to get into position? Watch the way that the oppos run and compare that to ours. That comes from poor coaching and training.
Collins has the experience of working with lower grade footballers and if we want to get the best out of our younsters we need coaches of the ability to work with potential high grade footballers.
 
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SakosRightFoot

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Oldgold Wolfcub said:
I dont disagree with you that he may have that brief to work within. What I am talking about is the coaching skills and the mindset that goes with it. Do you for example think he is told that the players should deliberately slow down with the ball and maybe give it two or three touches to enable the oppos to get into position? Watch the way that the oppos run and compare that to ours. That comes from poor coaching and training.
Collins has the experience of working with lower grade footballers and if we want to get the best out of our younsters we need coaches of the ability to work with potential high grade footballers.
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This really is a weird take, so who in your view do we appoint as a development coach? Only people from top 6 clubs?

You blame his coaching, when in reality Chiwome and Rees were with the U18s last week, Chirewa definitely plus probably a few others were used for 1st team training to prepare for West Ham. He probably got Sunday with them all together at best.

Plus as others have said there was a makeshift midfield, a guy in the 10 whos sat on the first team bench for a month so hasn't played, even Birtwistles been out injured hasn't he.

Sometimes it just feels like people want to moan for the sake of it on here, 1st team loses a few games and everything at the club is rotten
 
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Oldgold Wolfcub

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giantwolf said:
Man City won the u21 league easily last season scoring 80 goals, they’re struggling big time this season and are now bottom after Blackburns win

My point being is even with a pipeline as strong as Man C, you take key ‘Senior’ (older) academy players out (they’ve sold a few and taking others in first team squad) and replace with younger more inexperienced results will suffer. We’ve lost Roberts, Fraser, Hodge (to a degree), Pond, Chem (to a degree), Lembikisa this season. Results will be up and down

Blackburn aren’t mugs either and I warned as much pre kick off.
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Agree about Blackburn last night. With ten men they looked up for it and more confident than us. Look at their body language.
 
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SakosRightFoot said:
This really is a weird take, so who in your view do we appoint as a development coach? Only people from top 6 clubs?

You blame his coaching, when in reality Chiwome and Rees were with the U18s last week, Chirewa definitely plus probably a few others were used for 1st team training to prepare for West Ham. He probably got Sunday with them all together at best.

Plus as others have said there was a makeshift midfield, a guy in the 10 whos sat on the first team bench for a month so hasn't played, even Birtwistles been out injured hasn't he.

Sometimes it just feels like people want to moan for the sake of it on here, 1st team loses a few games and everything at the club is rotten
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Results don't really matter at development level...off course you don't want to lose every week , but if you look at all the teams results they are a very mixed bag...one week ya win 5, next week ya can't score , then the week after you get hammered....

You mix it up a bit , with game time for everyone, different formation, different combinations, different positions thats how you learn ..

It's obvious results are not at the forefront of most clubs minds , hence them all getting together and being in 1 league....no relegation, no promotion because largely it's pointless...it's about the individuals as much as the team...

As I said earlier we have been up and down with results for the last 2 months, playing in endless different competitions, with different challenges but if you take a step back and look at an individual say Marvin Kaleta who was basically chucked in because of injuries, and struggled like hell the first few games...but as the months has progressed he has started to find his feet and is looking at useful kid to work with...not the finished article by any stretch and still has a lot to work from....so a tricky month for the team can have it's benefits on an individual basis ...it's all part of the process of learning...

You won't learn nowt winning 5-0 every week...your not developing a team, your developing individuals.
 
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Oldgold Wolfcub

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JadeWolf said:
I wasn’t at last nights game, but I wouldn’t read too much into individual results in development football. All about the bigger picture.
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And what I was saying was the big picture. The performance not the result. If we had lost 5 nil but put in a performance I would be looking for the positives.
 
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Oldgold Wolfcub said:
And what I was saying was the big picture. The performance not the result. If we had lost 5 nil but put in a performance I would be looking for the positives.
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But you're basing it on one off games. It's not about the results, its not about the team performance, it's about individual development over time. They're literally learning how to cope with different opponents and situations, you speak like they should be the finished article or look close to it when they're just starting
 
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Oldgold Wolfcub

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SakosRightFoot said:
But you're basing it on one off games. It's not about the results, its not about the team performance, it's about individual developmeInt over time. They're literally learning how to cope with different opponents and situations, you speak like they should be the finished article or look close to it when they're just starting
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You sound as if you have not read my posts. It is not based on one performance but the result of many. You jump to the conclusion I expect them to be perfect at this stage. No but I expect them to be able to run like their oponents, put the energy into the game, be trained to look as if you know how to win.
Not just one game. Did you watch last night's performance? Only in the last ten minutes or so did you see any urgency last noght.
If you didn't spot it Blackburn certainly did and knew that despite being one man down we were there for the taking.
 
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SakosRightFoot

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Oldgold Wolfcub said:
You sound as if you have not read my posts. It is not based on one performance but the result of many. You jump to the conclusion I expect them to be perfect at this stage. No but I expect them to be able to run like their oponents, put the energy into the game, be trained to look as if you know how to win.
Not just one game. Did you watch last night's performance? Only in the last ten minutes or so did you see any urgency last noght.
If you didn't spot it Blackburn certainly did and knew that despite being one man down we were there for the taking.
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You don't seem to grasp that we are not playing for results, it's about developing players. Thats why they play in different positions, different formations etc they are not a "team" so why would they play like one? They are a group of individuals who train across 3 different groups brought together to play a game, you have to stop basing everything off the matches they mean absolutely zero.
 
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SakosRightFoot said:
You don't seem to grasp that we are not playing for results, it's about developing players. Thats why they play in different positions, different formations etc they are not a "team" so why would they play like one? They are a group of individuals who train across 3 different groups brought together to play a game, you have to stop basing everything off the matches they mean absolutely zero.
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I see so you feel that I dont seem to grasp it when you are interpreting things in your own way. I have no problem in what you are saying in changing, formations, development rather than reaults. But that is not what I am saining myself.
Unless of course you mean that Collins says to them I wm going to play you in a different formation but I want you run slower than the oppositio, be second to the ball, take an extra tough on the ball to give oppositon time to get back into position, etc.
If we are going to have a healthy disagreement lets at least debate what points I have made. :D
 
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Oldgold Wolfcub said:
but I want you run slower than the oppositio, be second to the ball, take an extra tough on the ball to give oppositon time to get back into position, etc.
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Do you think that happens every game though because it doesn’t. They can and have played much better than yesterday
 
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SakosRightFoot

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Oldgold Wolfcub said:
I see so you feel that I dont seem to grasp it when you are interpreting things in your own way. I have no problem in what you are saying in changing, formations, development rather than reaults. But that is not what I am saining myself.
Unless of course you mean that Collins says to them I wm going to play you in a different formation but I want you run slower than the oppositio, be second to the ball, take an extra tough on the ball to give oppositon time to get back into position, etc.
If we are going to have a healthy disagreement lets at least debate what points I have made. :D
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Ok do you think he says that to them?
 
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