The mediocre manager merry-go round

[manchesterwolf17]

Hodgson, Moyes, Allardyce, Pardew. All handed PL jobs this year (or will be soon), combined age of 243, 18 PL stints between them, 0 major honours.

Roy Hodgson - West Brom David Moyes - Everton Sam Allardyce - Crystal Palace Alan Pardew - West Ham


Roy Hodgson - Crystal Palace David Moyes - West Ham Sam Allardyce - Everton Alan Pardew - West Brom


Can see Pullis managing Swansea by January too.

These blokes make millions, time after time for serving up nothing but mediocrity.

These are the people standing in the way of young managers! Such cowardly appointments.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/09/sports/soccer/premier-league-sam-allardyce.html

Good article on it, above.

 

[Moulinex Mixer]

Hodgson, Moyes, Allardyce, Pardew. All handed PL jobs this year (or will be soon), combined age of 243, 18 PL stints between them, 0 major honours.

Roy Hodgson - West Brom David Moyes - Everton Sam Allardyce - Crystal Palace Alan Pardew - West Ham


Roy Hodgson - Crystal Palace David Moyes - West Ham Sam Allardyce - Everton Alan Pardew - West Brom


Can see Pullis managing Swansea by January too.

These blokes make millions, time after time for serving up nothing but mediocrity.

These are the people standing in the way of young managers! Such cowardly appointments.

Whilst I agree with your basic sentiments the "0 major honours" is not surprising given they are virtually the property of the 3 richest clubs!

 

[RosehillWolf]

I have just been reading the comments on the BBC website regarding Everton's likely employment of Allardyce... none of their fans wants him !! Clubs sacking their manager put themselves in a totally unwinnable situation. Allardyce is not going to accept a 6 - 12 month deal, not enough money in it , so they will offer a 3 years deal, then if he fails, another large payout . I'm glad that Mamager's like Silva and Dyche are showing loyalty, and by God doesn;t it even make you more happier that Fosun acquired Nuno ?

 

[Lupo Italiano]

Its true, the same old tired names all the time. Like you say, walk into these jobs and earn a fortune, fat bonus for a short term fix and a hefty pay off when it inevitably goes wrong!

 

[1312]

I have just been reading the comments on the BBC website regarding Everton's likely employment of Allardyce... none of their fans wants him !! Clubs sacking their manager put themselves in a totally unwinnable situation. Allardyce is not going to accept a 6 - 12 month deal, not enough money in it , so they will offer a 3 years deal, then if he fails, another large payout . I'm glad that Mamager's like Silva and Dyche are showing loyalty, and by God doesn;t it even make you more happier that Fosun acquired Nuno ?

I don't think its quite the case of Silva showing loyalty, I think its the case that Watford aren't budging, regardless of what Everton throw at them.

Has Pardew been confirmed now?

 

[Mr Wolf]

Most teams simply can’t afford to take a gamble on a manager with no/little experience.

I wish more would though because I’m sick of watching the same old stuff. Glad managers like Silva, Wagner & Nuno have come in.

 

[RosehillWolf]

I don't think its quite the case of Silva showing loyalty, I think its the case that Watford aren't budging, regardless of what Everton throw at them.

Has Pardew been confirmed now?

See nothing yet about Pardew , perhaps massive club Albion will go for the AC Milan departee ?

 

[1312]

See nothing yet about Pardew , perhaps massive club Albion will go for the AC Milan departee ?

Who knows? Be welcome to him as he's done naff all since leaving Fiorentina. Was a bizarre appointment in the first place from AC's perspective

 

[FLEET WOLF]

I have just been reading the comments on the BBC website regarding Everton's likely employment of Allardyce... none of their fans wants him !! Clubs sacking their manager put themselves in a totally unwinnable situation. Allardyce is not going to accept a 6 - 12 month deal, not enough money in it , so they will offer a 3 years deal, then if he fails, another large payout . I'm glad that Mamager's like Silva and Dyche are showing loyalty, and by God doesn;t it even make you more happier that Fosun acquired Nuno ?

Unfortunately, Everton have got themselves into a right mess and they need to do something quickly! They know Allardyce will keep them up and if they could get him to sign a contract, until the end of the season, that would give them time to think about a long term manager, but as you rightly say, Big Sam will coin it in. I think, in time, this nonsense will stop and people like him, Pulis and Arry will start to become very old news!

 

[Writer Wolf]

I don't know why Everton are not trying to get manager Graham Potter of Swedish side Ostersunds. That's an incredible story.

Or West Brom for that matter.

 

[Ewok vs Wolf]

Its just panic, can't afford to face relegation so they wont gamble on other managers. They go to the tried and tested which is fair enough if it keeps them in the league.

 

[1312]

I don't know why Everton are not trying to get manager Graham Potter of Swedish side Ostersunds. That's an incredible story.

Or West Brom for that matter.

He'll be picked up in the summer, I feel. As Ewok has touched on, its too much of a risk midway through the season and I'm not totally convinced Potter would want to bail in the middle of their European journey, Premier League, or not.

 

[Deleted member 3573J]

Surely West Ham and especially Everton could take a risk though? God knows what's going on at Everton, 5 weeks with that waste of space in charge? I've listened to pretty much every post match interview from Unsworth, he just says one football cliche from the 90s after another, he sounds like a fan and a dumb one at that. They may have wasted a lot of money but they still have a good squad and with money to spend surely most manager's outside the top clubs would want to go there? Silva was begging for the job a couple of weeks ago but apparently they wont pay the £10m release clause, they are happy to spend £25m on average players like Keane but won't pay 10m for a good manager, I don't know what goes through the minds of some owners. O'Neill was the favourite on Sunday, now back to Allardyce, what a mess.

 

[Chisels_n_ommers]

How many clubs previously managed by Big Sam, Woy, Moyes, Brucie, Pardew, Pulis etc would want them back?

Maybe Fulham with Woy where he did a good job and they've regressed.

 

[portugaletc]

Silva was begging for the job a couple of weeks ago

He wasn't. He just didn't declare undying love for Watford, rightfully so, gives him room to negotiate things with the board.

 

[Wolfgang Wolf]

Rosehill
I'm glad that Mamager's like Silva and Dyche are showing loyalty,
........................
silva didn't show much loyalty to hull

 

[portugaletc]

Rosehill
I'm glad that Mamager's like Silva and Dyche are showing loyalty,
........................
silva didn't show much loyalty to hull

He respected his contract, didn't show any disloyalty either.

 

[Derby Wolf]

How many clubs previously managed by Big Sam, Woy, Moyes, Brucie, Pardew, Pulis etc would want them back?

Maybe Fulham with Woy where he did a good job and they've regressed.

Albion would have had Woy back too, left in good standing to take the England job.

 

[Jonzy54]

He was only given a contract from January until the end of the season .He resigned on the 25th May.What did he do wrong ?

 

[kennyB]

Would Bolton take Allardyce back? After all doesn't he have a 100% England record?

 

[Deleted at own request (WeAreTheWolves)]

I blame the media, they force agenda's on us with this British coaching thing. That article is right, but how many do you see like that?

Instead we read 'needs to have Premier League experience', 'needs to know the league'. Therefore, you're vastly increasing the chances of appointing an English/British manager.

This narrative is said time after time and clearly the club's are believing it. And, ultimately, it's because they're scared.

Look at Marco Silva, he had to go to Hull, who were effectively down, and work a near miracle to get the Watford job. He's managed Sporting Lisbon and Olympiacos but apparently you need 'Premier League' experience. They are both massive club's and the expectation with those two will far outweigh anything he has at Hull and Watford. And, who doesn't 'know' the Premier League? It's the easiest league to watch and 'know' in the world. Do they think he couldn't see how the game is played, the players, the intensity? Of course they could.

The other problem is the ignorance of fans and pundits. Look at Merson and Thompson on Silva. It was disgusting and as mentioned he has managed two massive club's and done well wherever he has been. He deserved respect. Instead they went in on him and suggested Gary Rowett.

I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and say there's nothing sinister or nasty in their comments, instead that they're just stupid. But, these are pundits on English football's biggest broadcaster. And, they're not alone. Papers, journalists, everyone, believes the rubbish idea.

To me, it's a completely selfish approach.

If you're an English manager, just play along with this, it cosies you up to the journalists/pundits who think they same way, then once you're in favour with them, you can get a job. It's an easy road to go down and as mentioned, it's worked a treat for Allardyce and Moyes.

Tell everyone they need experienced British coaches. Manager sacked. Club are panicking and you and your mates reinforce the need for experienced British coaches. Club panicking more. So much money at stake. Mustn't take a risk. Club really panicking now. Must appoint British manager who knows league. Voila. Big Sam/Moyes/Pulis has a job.

And, repeat.

It's such an old boys network and it's not on. I even heard David Unsworth get many mentions for the Everton job, he bleeds Blue don't you know, because he 'knows' the club. The very same people who go in on Marco Silva.

The fear paralyses the club's and they believe what they read in the media and care to much about how they're perceived by the media.

England is the perfect example of that. I'll actually stick up for Allardyce here, the fact he was sacked was disgraceful and purely because the FA were scared about the reaction in the press. Of course, whilst they should've had a backbone, the issue again is with the press for acting like that in the first place.

With the Premier League that fear is more with losing money, but the attitude of the press can't help.

Look at Albion, getting all sorts of stick for sacking Pulis because he's in that network. The reality is the football was rubbish and they weren't getting points.

Look at the same reaction to Claude Puel and Southampton. Where was the outrage? They're a bigger profile club yet there wasn't much after they sacked a man who took them to a cup final and 8th position, probably above all expectations for the season.

Not only is there no outrage at the time, the only outrage comes about when that very man gets another job with a lower placed side. Erm, what is going on!?

Again, I'm not implying there's sinister actions here. I don't think they're horrible people, I think most are just so ignorant and arrogant when it comes to English football and like-minded fans agree with it.

The same will happen when Brendan Rodgers leaves Celtic. He's worked wonders there, but I guarantee all we'll hear when he does leave is how it's a Mickey Mouse league and how everyone's Nan could win it with them. Not entering the Scottish football debate, but if you genuinely think that Rodgers doesn't deserve any credit for his overall work there, then you fall into that category.

Finally, a MASSIVE thank you to Fosun.

Not sure this topic has been revisited, but I hope people don't try and rewrite history on here. The fact is, there were MANY fans who were upset that Lambert was going, upset that we weren't signing the 'proven Championship players' that he had identified.

I'm not digging them out on it, we've all made daft calls in the past, but everyone seems to have forgotten about it.

We were the exact scenario that I'm talking about here. We had the proven manager and whilst you can't call Lambert's time a success, he wasn't a massive failure and had done just about enough for Fosun to stick by him.

We had the bull**** stories from the press, who stuck up for him. We had the bull**** 'need Championship experience' line, but our board had the balls to make a change and I'm so glad they did and I honestly don't think they get enough credit for it.

Because everything has gone so well people understandably don't want to talk about it, but there was a lot of unhappy posts with the way we went about it.

As I say, well done Fosun for being prepared to change, but you would've faced more stick then ever before had things gone wrong with Nuno, it's how it works in England.

 

[Deleted member 4594]

Surely West Ham and especially Everton could take a risk though? God knows what's going on at Everton, 5 weeks with that waste of space in charge? I've listened to pretty much every post match interview from Unsworth, he just says one football cliche from the 90s after another, he sounds like a fan and a dumb one at that. They may have wasted a lot of money but they still have a good squad and with money to spend surely most manager's outside the top clubs would want to go there? Silva was begging for the job a couple of weeks ago but apparently they wont pay the £10m release clause, they are happy to spend £25m on average players like Keane but won't pay 10m for a good manager, I don't know what goes through the minds of some owners. O'Neill was the favourite on Sunday, now back to Allardyce, what a mess.

I cringe every time Unsworth opens his mouth. Ridiculous he's been there 5 weeks. His efforts to come across as a "true blue" after every battering are painful to watch.
At least Terry Connor had the good grace to speak like a bloke who knew he shouldn't have the job.

 

[Stafford]

Is what Silva has achieved better than what Pulis did at Palace?

Has there been a more consistent Premier League Manager than Sam Allerdyce?

I can remember when Roberto Martinez was the trendiest thing in football and what all clubs should be doing. Football just goes around in circles.

Would like to see Premier League Chairmen take bigger risks on lower league managers though and look to how they get their teams to play with the budgets they have as they are really missing out.

Pardew is awful, i'll give everyone that.

 

[manchesterwolf17]

I blame the media, they force agenda's on us with this British coaching thing. That article is right, but how many do you see like that?

Instead we read 'needs to have Premier League experience', 'needs to know the league'. Therefore, you're vastly increasing the chances of appointing an English/British manager.

This narrative is said time after time and clearly the club's are believing it. And, ultimately, it's because they're scared.

Look at Marco Silva, he had to go to Hull, who were effectively down, and work a near miracle to get the Watford job. He's managed Sporting Lisbon and Olympiacos but apparently you need 'Premier League' experience. They are both massive club's and the expectation with those two will far outweigh anything he has at Hull and Watford. And, who doesn't 'know' the Premier League? It's the easiest league to watch and 'know' in the world. Do they think he couldn't see how the game is played, the players, the intensity? Of course they could.

The other problem is the ignorance of fans and pundits. Look at Merson and Thompson on Silva. It was disgusting and as mentioned he has managed two massive club's and done well wherever he has been. He deserved respect. Instead they went in on him and suggested Gary Rowett.

I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and say there's nothing sinister or nasty in their comments, instead that they're just stupid. But, these are pundits on English football's biggest broadcaster. And, they're not alone. Papers, journalists, everyone, believes the rubbish idea.

To me, it's a completely selfish approach.

If you're an English manager, just play along with this, it cosies you up to the journalists/pundits who think they same way, then once you're in favour with them, you can get a job. It's an easy road to go down and as mentioned, it's worked a treat for Allardyce and Moyes.

Tell everyone they need experienced British coaches. Manager sacked. Club are panicking and you and your mates reinforce the need for experienced British coaches. Club panicking more. So much money at stake. Mustn't take a risk. Club really panicking now. Must appoint British manager who knows league. Voila. Big Sam/Moyes/Pulis has a job.

And, repeat.

It's such an old boys network and it's not on. I even heard David Unsworth get many mentions for the Everton job, he bleeds Blue don't you know, because he 'knows' the club. The very same people who go in on Marco Silva.

The fear paralyses the club's and they believe what they read in the media and care to much about how they're perceived by the media.

England is the perfect example of that. I'll actually stick up for Allardyce here, the fact he was sacked was disgraceful and purely because the FA were scared about the reaction in the press. Of course, whilst they should've had a backbone, the issue again is with the press for acting like that in the first place.

With the Premier League that fear is more with losing money, but the attitude of the press can't help.

Look at Albion, getting all sorts of stick for sacking Pulis because he's in that network. The reality is the football was rubbish and they weren't getting points.

Look at the same reaction to Claude Puel and Southampton. Where was the outrage? They're a bigger profile club yet there wasn't much after they sacked a man who took them to a cup final and 8th position, probably above all expectations for the season.

Not only is there no outrage at the time, the only outrage comes about when that very man gets another job with a lower placed side. Erm, what is going on!?

Again, I'm not implying there's sinister actions here. I don't think they're horrible people, I think most are just so ignorant and arrogant when it comes to English football and like-minded fans agree with it.

The same will happen when Brendan Rodgers leaves Celtic. He's worked wonders there, but I guarantee all we'll hear when he does leave is how it's a Mickey Mouse league and how everyone's Nan could win it with them. Not entering the Scottish football debate, but if you genuinely think that Rodgers doesn't deserve any credit for his overall work there, then you fall into that category.

Finally, a MASSIVE thank you to Fosun.

Not sure this topic has been revisited, but I hope people don't try and rewrite history on here. The fact is, there were MANY fans who were upset that Lambert was going, upset that we weren't signing the 'proven Championship players' that he had identified.

I'm not digging them out on it, we've all made daft calls in the past, but everyone seems to have forgotten about it.

We were the exact scenario that I'm talking about here. We had the proven manager and whilst you can't call Lambert's time a success, he wasn't a massive failure and had done just about enough for Fosun to stick by him.

We had the bull**** stories from the press, who stuck up for him. We had the bull**** 'need Championship experience' line, but our board had the balls to make a change and I'm so glad they did and I honestly don't think they get enough credit for it.

Because everything has gone so well people understandably don't want to talk about it, but there was a lot of unhappy posts with the way we went about it.

As I say, well done Fosun for being prepared to change, but you would've faced more stick then ever before had things gone wrong with Nuno, it's how it works in England.

Top post. Completely agree.

 

[portugaletc]

Is what Silva has achieved better than what Pulis did at Palace?

I think my soul just left my body...
Are you Paul Merson?

 

[Stafford]

I think my soul just left my body...
Are you Paul Merson?

Mods; He's gone too far here!!

 

[WW1963]

Been saying it for years.

The carousel of incompetence will continue to turn - but in a different field. Opportunities galore are being given to dynamic coaches from abroad as an increasing number of clubs experience thrilling rides at breakneck speeds, with fans getting genuine value for money.

At the moment, it is as if Wolves fans are wearing virtual reality headsets. We are seeing into another dimension whilst the likes of West Brom fans are in an adjacent muddy field spending their money on rusty waltzers being pushed by sweaty pickpockets with no teeth trying to chat up your twelve year old daughter.

 

[Jonzy54]

As we live in a World of stats these days , how many foreign Managers are there in the 92?
Furthermore other than Nuno,Chris Hughton,Keith Curle and JFH are there any other black Managers in our Leagues? Apologies if I have missed anyone .

 

[Essex Wolf]

It has often amazed me how managers can be absolute failures on such a regular basis on occasion and yet still get work at top clubs earning mega money. Having often been paid out massive compensation they carry on living a luxury lifestyle and then walk into another mega bucks job for the circle very likely to continue. Pardew as an example hasn't impressed at all. Starts okay and then often all goes wrong yet he gets work after each flop. Dare say it may happen in other lines of work but does it happen anywhere near as often with such vast sums of money involved.

The only one I'd say doesn't fall into that catergory for me is Allardyce, not because he's a supposed Wolves fan, who has done what's been pretty much been asked of him most everywhere he has managed.

 

[old wittonian]

How many clubs previously managed by Big Sam, Woy, Moyes, Brucie, Pardew, Pulis etc would want them back?

Maybe Fulham with Woy where he did a good job and they've regressed.

I would think Bolton would want Allardyce if they could afford him.

 

[portugaletc]

Pulis and Allardyce have fans in this thread. The only one missing is 'Arry for the perfect trifecta of crooks.

 

[Jonzy54]

It has often amazed me how managers can be absolute failures on such a regular basis on occasion and yet still get work at top clubs earning mega money. Having often been paid out massive compensation they carry on living a luxury lifestyle and then walk into another mega bucks job for the circle very likely to continue. Pardew as an example hasn't impressed at all. Starts okay and then often all goes wrong yet he gets work after each flop. Dare say it may happen in other lines of work but does it happen anywhere near as often with such vast sums of money involved.

The only one I'd say doesn't fall into that catergory for me is Allardyce, not because he's a supposed Wolves fan, who has done what's been pretty much been asked of him most everywhere he has managed.

It isn't just a modern phenomenon either .If you go back further Tommy Docherty,John Bond and Malcolm Allison to name but 3 used to go from one failure to another job with little difficulty.That said the money wasn't around but in comparative terms they were still paid decent money for the time plus compensation.

 

[Jonzy54]

Pulis and Allardyce have fans in this thread. The only one missing is 'Arry for the perfect trifecta of crooks.

Allegedly

 

[Essex Wolf]

Pulis and Allardyce have fans in this thread. The only one missing is 'Arry for the perfect trifecta of crooks.

Steady mate steady. I don't mind Big Sam but don't ruin the thread by talking about Pulis.

It is just a modern phenomenon either .If you go back further Tommy Docherty,John Bond and Malcolm Allison to name but 3 used to go from one failure to another job with little difficulty.That said the money wasn't around but in comparative terms they were still paid decent money for the time plus compensation.

Good point.

And on this subject Unsworth is again filling the SSN screen, in more ways than one, and as brightside says in post 22 it makes you cringe. So out of his depth it's embarrassing.

 

[portugaletc]

I don't mind Big Sam but don't ruin the thread by talking about Pulis

Is there a difference between the two?
My favorite manager of all time is English and he was the complete opposite of those two. I'll let the MolMix guess who it is.

 

[Fifty Niner]

I don't know why Everton are not trying to get manager Graham Potter of Swedish side Ostersunds. That's an incredible story.

Or West Brom for that matter.

Probably because his is unproven at that (PL) level!

 

[Chisels_n_ommers]

I would think Bolton would want Allardyce if they could afford him.

True.... And Limerick would too I suppose

 

[Jonzy54]

Is there a difference between the two?
My favorite manager of all time is English and he was the complete opposite of those two. I'll let the MolMix guess who it is.

Cloughie ?

 

[HICKO]

Cloughie ?

Bobby Robson ?

 

[Woburn Wolf]

I know what you mean but I would put Allardyce in a different category. Unlike the others he has taken on several teams in trouble and saved them from relegation and I expect him to do the same at Everton, if appointed. By doing this he is saving the club owners countless millions.