Paul Gascoigne

[Big Nosed Wolf]

That's state education for you. Children now grow up being spoon-fed what to think but not how to think. Many would no doubt see it as healthy that the state has stepped in but would they ever question the serious implications this has for freedom of expression? Could they ever understand that being free to speak one's mind without the interference of the state was essential to all the freedoms, technological advancement and comfort we enjoy today? Do they ask why societies in Africa, the Middle-East or even Mexico have failed to achieve this? Instead, people grow up with the automatic presumption that anything offensive to them must incur the sanction of official authority; hence the banning of sombreros at UEA for "cultural appropriation" or the ridiculous upper-class lefties behind the UK branch of "Black Lives Matter". It all goes to show you don't have to be conscious of possessing a totalitarian mind-set to have one: people have them without being aware they have one because they unquestioningly assume and don't think.

I am not sure if the whole state education system is to blame but I do go along with much of this.

The biggest point you make is about how to think rather than told what to think, or at least 'educated' to 'think' with a predetermined social set of rules. That's when education stops being education and starts becoming indoctrination.

I was always 'made' to think for myself both at home by my late father and in school. I was given the information at school and then invited to agree/disagree on whatever issues. At home I was encouraged to speak up and remember many heated arguments with the wider circle of family gatherings- topics ranged from The Wolves to politics. Nobody attacked each other and nobody took offence. Older members just passed the fags around and bought/opened another brew.

Not always the political correctness infesting today's increasingly socially sick society but every one 'obeyed' a sort of unwritten 'law' not to be silly, or petty, or 'over the top' offensively.

 

[Big Nosed Wolf]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/artic...-racist-if-im-from-an-ethnic-minority-discuss

Is this worse than Gazza's "joke"?
Please don't join in if you are white or male is the basic message.

Much worse of course. This individual is serious. Gazza was just being a plonker.

 

[Deleted member 3604]

I am not putting that into question. Yes, the security guard had every right to be upset and report this. But claiming it resulted in flashbacks, depression, ruined his life.. nonsense. He has used racism and the fact it is Paul Gascoigne and milked it well and truly.

But what he said was racist and if you're made a laughing stock of in front of a few hundred people some people don't just laugh it off. I think much Adult humour is based on put downs and if truth be told we should all be able to shrug it off and give it back but given the way black people have been treated over the years there are certain boundaries that should not be crossed. I wouldn't say Gascoigne is a racist he just made a stupid ill thought out remark but I wouldn't instantly dismiss how the other guy feels.

 

[RJs Tankard]

But what he said was racist and if you're made a laughing stock of in front of a few hundred people some people don't just laugh it off. I think much Adult humour is based on put downs and if truth be told we should all be able to shrug it off and give it back but given the way black people have been treated over the years there are certain boundaries that should not be crossed. I wouldn't say Gascoigne is a racist he just made a stupid ill thought out remark but I wouldn't instantly dismiss how the other guy feels.

It was racist - but seriously? It may have offended him, it may have even upset him for a while - but to say he cried and it altered his life? Ridiculous.

If it was me, I'd be more bothered about admitting in front of a court full of people that I went home and cried than I would the racist comment.

This is a grown man, a security guy (so presumably a fairly tough cookie) allegedly claiming that he cried and was so badly affected, that he suffers flashbacks and it's ruined his life. I don't believe a word of it. I hope he didn't turn his TV on during the 80's and 90's. I dread to think of the suffering that may have occurred as a result of watching an episode of Only Fools & Horses.

 

[WasStefan]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/artic...-racist-if-im-from-an-ethnic-minority-discuss

Is this worse than Gazza's "joke"?
Please don't join in if you are white or male is the basic message.

No one is disputing ethnic minorities can be racist, to suggest otherwise is daft. But as white people do we not need to realise that proportionally we have an issue with racists?

 

[RJs Tankard]

But as white people do we not need to realise that proportionally we have an issue with racists?

Yes - but that also works both ways. Racism works both ways - and many black and white people are both guilty of it.

I think a bit of perspective is needed here. Whilst Gascoignes comment was stupid, ignorant and 30 years out of date (lets face it, Gazza has never been the sharpest tool in the box anyway), it wasn't malicious. Is it any different from sexist comments where blokes at work constantly crack 1990's jokes about women being at home cooking the dinner? How long is it before we see a group of builders being dragged to court because a woman has overheard a "joke" and cried herself to sleep and had flashbacks about women being at home doing the dishes.

Does that make the builder sexist? He's probably got a wife and kids at home and shares no ill towards women at all. Stupid? Yes. Immature? Probably. Sexist? Unlikely.

Where does it all end? If we start dragging people to court for stupidity, the courts would be clogged full of cases day in, day out. The morons are out in force most weekends in towns and cities across the country.

Gazza was stupid - but it wasn't malicious. Jim Davidson and Roy Chubby Brown made a career of far worse. That doesn't make it right - I'm just putting things into perspective. How far do these things go? Do we start arresting 80s/90s comedians and charging them for historical racism? It's a good job Bernard Manning is no longer with us if that's the case - they'd have thrown away the key after his decades of telling racist "jokes" (and they actually were racist - not throw away silly comments like Gazza made).

In the year 2016, we're supposed to live in a world where people want equality. Therefore, its about time things were equal. The bizarre thing about all this is, in a day where things are supposed to be equal, we've got things like the MOBO awards (music of black origin). How is that not deemed racist? If a MOWO (music of white origin) awards was announced, I'd imagine there would be sheer outrage. Racism/Sexism/Ageism/Whateverism works both ways - but it only seems to be a problem these days when something doesn't work in their favour - but when something is of benefit to them (ie, the music awards), the inequality seems to be acceptable.

Anyway, must dash, a teenager just shouted "you old fart" from across the road. I'm deeply offended by this ageism and I'm about to burst into tears. Its going to ruin my life - so I'm going to call the police and see if I can take them to court.

 

[E is for idiot.]

No one is disputing ethnic minorities can be racist, to suggest otherwise is daft. But as white people do we not need to realise that proportionally we have an issue with racists?

The argument stems from racism and sexism being based on positions of power. As traditionally men and typically white men have had the power then people outside of those groups cannot be racist. They can be bigoted or prejudiced but not racist. That is what she was saying, she used semantics to try and wriggle out of what she did. Semanticly white people cannot be victims of racism, they can be victims of prejudice.

Whether you agree with this or not ( for the record I don't, I think it is *******s ) that is how it is defined.

 

[OldWolvesfart]

Let's deliberately misread my post in order to avoid answering a simple question. Do you think the CPS should have brought this case to court?

Have you ever been drunk Jim, now take that 5 stages further , are you a raging alcoholic. Probably no two both questions. What Gazza says or does in one of his binges probably has no relation to the people in front of him. But i'm sure you can find somthing to hang you're hat on you usually do.
Now with your intervention it's turned to a race thread not a Gazza thread.
You are so devious.

 

[Edgmond Wolf]

Is calling some one fat, black , ginger or short any different.

Is that me?

Well three of them are and I wear a black jacket

 

[Sedgley Gold N Black]

No one is disputing ethnic minorities can be racist, to suggest otherwise is daft. But as white people do we not need to realise that proportionally we have an issue with racists?

Do we, when you actually consider the size of the white population in this country I'd suggest its more the opposite.

The problem is that, like with sexism, the bar of what is acceptable is set differently depending on who you are though. Its easier for a white person to be called a racist.

 

[oldsamdingle]

I can understand why the comment made him cry, i used to go home and cry myself to sleep most nights i work in Birmingham and they call me a short fat yam yam dingle *******, but when they call me those names now i just think of cool running water and i make a peace sign and hum a few bars of we will over come, you will be glad to know im fine now

 

[Edgmond Wolf]

I can understand why the comment made him cry, i used to go home and cry myself to sleep most nights i work in Birmingham and they call me a short fat yam yam dingle *******, but when they call me those names now i just think of cool running water and i make a peace sign and hum a few bars of we will over come, you will be glad to know im fine now

Are you my brother??

 

[oldsamdingle]

Are you my brother??

Was your dad a postman

 

[Edgmond Wolf]

Was your dad a postman

No but I am a short fat yam yam dingle *******

 

[RJs Tankard]

Was your dad a postman

 

[Deleted member 3604]

In the year 2016, we're supposed to live in a world where people want equality. Therefore, its about time things were equal. The bizarre thing about all this is, in a day where things are supposed to be equal, we've got things like the MOBO awards (music of black origin). How is that not deemed racist? If a MOWO (music of white origin) awards was announced, I'd imagine there would be sheer outrage. Racism/Sexism/Ageism/Whateverism works both ways - but it only seems to be a problem these days when something doesn't work in their favour - but when something is of benefit to them (ie, the music awards), the inequality seems to be acceptable.

Completely agree with that as I am very ' anti-labelling and bracketing'. In effect this actually creates divisions and more often than not leads to favouritism and prejudice. There is a whole industry(and plenty of money to be made) built around this ridiculous theory but I suppose it 'keeps us at each other' rather than questioning the 1%. Positive Discrimination (Or Actioning) promotes prejudice against people.

 

[oldsamdingle]

No but I am a short fat yam yam dingle *******

I bet you have experienced the same sort of dingleism and shortism and fatism that I have. be strong edgemond we will overcome

 

[Sedgley Gold N Black]

In the year 2016, we're supposed to live in a world where people want equality. Therefore, its about time things were equal. The bizarre thing about all this is, in a day where things are supposed to be equal, we've got things like the MOBO awards (music of black origin). How is that not deemed racist? If a MOWO (music of white origin) awards was announced, I'd imagine there would be sheer outrage. Racism/Sexism/Ageism/Whateverism works both ways - but it only seems to be a problem these days when something doesn't work in their favour - but when something is of benefit to them (ie, the music awards), the inequality seems to be acceptable.

On the MOBOs have a look at the reaction when Ed Sheeran was nominated for an award or even when he topped the 1 xtra power list.

 

[BlahBlah]

In the year 2016, we're supposed to live in a world where people want equality. Therefore, its about time things were equal. The bizarre thing about all this is, in a day where things are supposed to be equal, we've got things like the MOBO awards (music of black origin). How is that not deemed racist?

I don't think we do want equality because being "equal" is a ridiculous concept in human society, and the UK is a hugely unequal society and becoming ever morseso as the rich side with business against the poorest.
Especially in Britain where the enforcement of a monarchical and an ancient feudal system with aristocracy conveyed from birth tells you that there are people they automatically rate as being "better" than you from the moment they exist.
So they don't want things to be equal. You are there to help them maintain their positions, they are not there to help you improve yours.

We've just had a tragic Government made up of rich blokes from the same class at school that nobody on here would have been let within a mile of.....did they want to give people of Wolverhampton equality?
Did they hell, they cut it adrift to fail and pumped every good thing into their southern heartlands.

I keep on seeing on here the idea of "equality" being thrown around as an insult between right and left politics and the whole argument is wrong. "The lazy left want to take our money and waste it, control what we do". "The right are just greedy *******s who'll throw us under a bus and look to force down wages for the poor".

What many people want is a society that offers equal OPPORTUNITY and that needs to be rebalanced all the time to maintain it, and until we come up with a Utopian model the only way to do that is better redistribution of wealth.
That doesn't mean taking all the riches of the rich and giving it straight to poor spongers, but it means investing in the future of the nation so that equal opportunity to success is maintained.

Yes, you can get rich, yes can you be a callous rich socialist biased ******* if you become one. There are plenty of rich callous socialist *******s running some of the richest countries on earth....left wingers without being full communists. It doesn't mean that you're a hippy wearing a cardigan eating beans out of a tin.

There's nothing wrong with that in social democracy ideology if the principle is that people should be in control of their own destiny, so long as everybody had the same opportunity to achieve, which they don't in the UK.
It works well in Australia where although a nominal monarchy, there are enough republicans to keep a balance and prevent some of the "conveyed by birthright" Etonian nonsense happening here that happens in British politics. They've just gone 20 years without a recession and anybody who begins to assume they "have a right" because of a self-serving old boys network gets cut out pretty quickly. The old boys network runs the UK !

It works well for the German's who do it far better than us and are more mature and successful because of it....they don't look for equality, but they look to give everyone a fair chance.
And they've prospered after losing a world war and having the reconstruction of a national ideology forced upon them. We "won" the war and have been going backwards comparatively ever since, mainly because of the cost but also because we contributed heavily to building a better national ideological model for Germany than we created for ourselves. We purposefully retained an UNEQUAL society that is run by the rich to maintain their own positions, using the poor to bolster them. If that isn't true compare the standards of living to Wolverhampton, which has been neglected and turned into a problem backwater that they have no further use for.

If black people want to use their freedom to make their own awards because they don't reckon they get recognition otherwise, then let them do it. Nobody else has to care about it, what difference does it make to anybody else's life?

 

[RJs Tankard]

I don't think we do want equality because being "equal" is a ridiculous concept in human society, and the UK is a hugely unequal society and becoming ever morseso as the rich side with business against the poorest.
Especially in Britain where the enforcement of a monarchical and an ancient feudal system with aristocracy conveyed from birth tells you that there are people they automatically rate as being "better" than you from the moment they exist.
So they don't want things to be equal. You are there to help them maintain their positions, they are not there to help you improve yours.

We've just had a tragic Government made up of rich blokes from the same class at school that nobody on here would have been let within a mile of.....did they want to give people of Wolverhampton equality?
Did they hell, they cut it adrift to fail and pumped every good thing into their southern heartlands.

I keep on seeing on here the idea of "equality" being thrown around as an insult between right and left politics and the whole argument is wrong. "The lazy left want to take our money and waste it, control what we do". "The right are just greedy *******s who'll throw us under a bus and look to force down wages for the poor".

What many people want is a society that offers equal OPPORTUNITY and that needs to be rebalanced all the time to maintain it, and until we come up with a Utopian model the only way to do that is better redistribution of wealth.
That doesn't mean taking all the riches of the rich and giving it straight to poor spongers, but it means investing in the future of the nation so that equal opportunity to success is maintained.

Yes, you can get rich, yes can you be a callous rich socialist biased ******* if you become one. There are plenty of rich callous socialist *******s running some of the richest countries on earth....left wingers without being full communists. It doesn't mean that you're a hippy wearing a cardigan eating beans out of a tin.

There's nothing wrong with that in social democracy ideology if the principle is that people should be in control of their own destiny, so long as everybody had the same opportunity to achieve, which they don't in the UK.
It works well in Australia where although a nominal monarchy, there are enough republicans to keep a balance and prevent some of the "conveyed by birthright" Etonian nonsense happening here that happens in British politics. They've just gone 20 years without a recession and anybody who begins to assume they "have a right" because of a self-serving old boys network gets cut out pretty quickly. The old boys network runs the UK !

It works well for the German's who do it far better than us and are more mature and successful because of it....they don't look for equality, but they look to give everyone a fair chance.
And they've prospered after losing a world war and having the reconstruction of a national ideology forced upon them. We "won" the war and have been going backwards comparatively ever since, mainly because of the cost but also because we contributed heavily to building a better national ideological model for Germany than we created for ourselves. We purposefully retained an UNEQUAL society that is run by the rich to maintain their own positions, using the poor to bolster them. If that isn't true compare the standards of living to Wolverhampton, which has been neglected and turned into a problem backwater that they have no further use for.

If black people want to use their freedom to make their own awards because they don't reckon they get recognition otherwise, then let them do it. Nobody else has to care about it, what difference does it make to anybody else's life?

That's a completely different subject - but I get your point and agree with a lot of it.

You're right about quality from a political point of view when it comes to lifestyle, wealth, etc - but that's down to lifestyle choices or what people are born into, etc. From a non-political, things that are beyond human control point of view, we're often asked to differentiate between fairly simple things - black and white, male and female, disabled and able-bodied, foreign or UK born, English speaking or non-english speaking, religious or non-religious (to a point, religion is the only thing on this list that could be regarded as a possible lifestyle choice rather than something out of human control).

At a time when everything is supposed to be equal between black and white, disabled or able-bodied, etc, we've still got race-orientated music awards, ladies nights at events, etc.

Baffling.

 

[crocos]

I see he's in rehab again.

For all your wrongs, I really do hope you can break those demons, Gazza. Some of my best memories of football outside Wolves involve you.

Good luck.