Paul Gascoigne

[WalsallWolf]

Blimey, he must be 132 years old now?

With regards to Gazza, whilst he shouldn't have made the racist comment that he made, I don't believe for one second that he meant any malice. It was just a naive old-fashioned throw away comment that should never have gone to court.

It could have been resolved quite easily with an apology from Gazza, a handshake and a pint, plus a couple of hundred quid as a "I was out of order and I shouldn't have humiliated you like that - take the family out for a meal or a day out on me. Sorry for offending you" gesture.

Central News reported that the defendant said in court that he went home and cried after it happened, he's had flashbacks ever since, and it's affected his life. Seriously? A grown man, a security guard, went home and cried? Had flashbacks? It changed his life? I don't believe a word of it. He was the victim of a childish comment - not a good beating in a pub car park.

I hope he doesn't watch any re-runs of Only Fools and Horses or Steptoe and Son on Sky where at least one comment along those lines would be used per episode with nobody, black or white, being offended.

If he cried over Gazza's comment, then I dread to think how he'd feel after watching an episode of Steptoe and Son.

Yes, Gazza was wrong. Yes, the victim was right to be offended and a bit upset - but I don't believe one bit that he cried, has suffered flashbacks and it's affected his life.

My point about Chubby is he makes exactly those type of throwaway comments in his jokes. Even to this day. Perhaps he should get convicted after every tour. Infact, it is a surprise he doesnt.

The world has gone mad. Cant say a thing. Would they same type of joke to a white man result in the same accusation/conviction? Course it would not.

 

[Mutchy]

Would they same type of joke to a white man result in the same accusation/conviction? Course it would not.

What equivalent is there?

 

[Tezthewolvesfan]

I think that people should keep their opinons to themselves regarding his court case. Gazza though is an icon and its such a shame how he has slipped, I still beleive that if he had signed for Manure Sir Alex may have protected him somewhat. As stated by others page one is a poor refelction of some posters on this forum.

 

[wolvesultra]

I think that people should keep their opinons to themselves regarding his court case. Gazza though is an icon and its such a shame how he has slipped, I still beleive that if he had signed for Manure Sir Alex may have protected him somewhat. As stated by others page one is a poor refelction of some posters on this forum.

Sorry do you think that people having an opinion on a racist joke should be kept hidden just because he was a great footballer?

 

[WalsallWolf]

What equivalent is there?

Lets say the security guard is white. Scenario in a very dark room a black comedian says "christ that fella at the back is blinding me"..

Under the same rule would that white fella have every right to complain and report this? Yes.

Would it be taken any further and result in a conviction for the man in question? No. No of course it would not. And that is everything that is wrong with 2016.

 

[wolvesultra]

Lets say the security guard is white. Scenario in a very dark room a black comedian says "christ that fella at the back is blinding me"..

Under the same rule would that white fella have every right to complain and report this? Yes.

Would it be taken any further and result in a conviction for the man in question? No. No of course it would not. And that is everything that is wrong with 2016.

You might have a point there but that's not the black security guards fault he had every right to pursue this conviction.

 

[Mutchy]

Lets say the security guard is white. Scenario in a very dark room a black comedian says "christ that fella at the back is blinding me"..

Under the same rule would that white fella have every right to complain and report this? Yes.

Would it be taken any further and result in a conviction for the man in question? No. No of course it would not. And that is everything that is wrong with 2016.

Its a scenario, but how likely do you really think it is?

 

[WalsallWolf]

Its a scenario, but how likely do you really think it is?

About as likely as the malice behind a comment similar as to what Paul meant. It is also not as unlikely as you want to make out or believe. Racism is a two way thing, only difference is one race dine out on it and use it to their advantage.

You might have a point there but that's not the black security guards fault he had every right to pursue this conviction.

I am not putting that into question. Yes, the security guard had every right to be upset and report this. But claiming it resulted in flashbacks, depression, ruined his life.. nonsense. He has used racism and the fact it is Paul Gascoigne and milked it well and truly.

 

[thisisgil]

It's an interesting point to be honest. It's hard to find anything that's actually funny that doesn't offend someone. Where is the line drawn? Is it right that it's socially acceptable to make fun of Catholics but not Muslims? Folk with ginger hair are fair game, but a group of other genetic differences are out? People with disabilities are a no-go area, but people infirm with age are still regularly poked fun at? I don't have the answers to these questions, but it's a really interesting thing to see where the line is drawn and just how severe the consequences can be for a throw-away comment.

 

[WalsallWolf]

It's an interesting point to be honest. It's hard to find anything that's actually funny that doesn't offend someone. Where is the line drawn? Is it right that it's socially acceptable to make fun of Catholics but not Muslims? Folk with ginger hair are fair game, but a group of other genetic differences are out? People with disabilities are a no-go area, but people infirm with age are still regularly poked fun at? I don't have the answers to these questions, but it's a really interesting thing to see where the line is drawn and just how severe the consequences can be for a throw-away comment.

As I say you cannot say anything nowadays. I am glad you have raised those points aswell because I am not just focusing on racism when I say that.

 

[Berkswolf]

What equivalent is there?

Have you never seen an episode of love thy neighbour? A black guy and a white guy living next door to each other both constantly at each others throats with one as bad as the other with their comments re race and colour? It was extremely funny in its time and no one on iether side of the fence was offended. This case smacks to me of someone wanting his five minutes of fame.

 

[Deleted member 4309]

Five minutes of fame my **** he wanted a bag of sand in he's hand.

 

[Berkswolf]

Five minutes of fame my **** he wanted a bag of sand in he's hand.

Sorry mate, I am not familiar with your expression. Do you mean he was after a fat pay out? Also very possible

 

[Deleted member 4309]

Sorry mate, I am not familiar with your expression. Do you mean he was after a fat pay out? Also very possible

Bag of sand = A grand

 

[thisisgil]

Sorry mate, I am not familiar with your expression. Do you mean he was after a fat pay out? Also very possible

Bag of Sand / Grand / £1000

 

[Lupu]

$$$$e. That is terrible. Poor bloke- he looks about 60. He needs more help- needs sectioning again for his own safety.

60? He looks more like 70.

 

[Berkswolf]

Bag of sand = A grand

Blimey! As someone born in London and living daan sarf I really should have known that!!

 

[luckyjim]

Blimey, he must be 132 years old now?

With regards to Gazza, whilst he shouldn't have made the racist comment that he made, I don't believe for one second that he meant any malice. It was just a naive old-fashioned throw away comment that should never have gone to court.

It could have been resolved quite easily with an apology from Gazza, a handshake and a pint, plus a couple of hundred quid as a "I was out of order and I shouldn't have humiliated you like that - take the family out for a meal or a day out on me. Sorry for offending you" gesture.

Central News reported that the defendant said in court that he went home and cried after it happened, he's had flashbacks ever since, and it's affected his life. Seriously? A grown man, a security guard, went home and cried? Had flashbacks? It changed his life? I don't believe a word of it. He was the victim of a childish comment - not a good beating in a pub car park.

I hope he doesn't watch any re-runs of Only Fools and Horses or Steptoe and Son on Sky where at least one comment along those lines would be used per episode with nobody, black or white, being offended.

If he cried over Gazza's comment, then I dread to think how he'd feel after watching an episode of Steptoe and Son.

Yes, Gazza was wrong. Yes, the victim was right to be offended and a bit upset - but I don't believe one bit that he cried, has suffered flashbacks and it's affected his life.

The bouncer who was the target of the joke didn't even make the complaint in the first place.

 

[Lupu]

Prophetic words?

 

[Tezthewolvesfan]

Sorry do you think that people having an opinion on a racist joke should be kept hidden just because he was a great footballer?

Not at all!. Its a very touchy subject to many that can get out of hand. Just my opinion of course.

 

[Mr Wolf]

I still beleive that if he had signed for Manure Sir Alex may have protected him somewhat.

I notice a few have said that & I don't think it would have helped. Ferguson has had plenty of players under him who have gone waywood, he used to have Keith Gilespie being his runner taking his bets. That didn't end well.

 

[Big Nosed Wolf]

Ah, but is Gazza still worthy of redemption in light of his conviction for racially aggravated abuse? Is he a racist ****-head or has a vulnerable man been subjected to an arbitrary show-trial?

He is worthy of redemption.

His court appearance an example of a society that has badly lost its way having lost a sense of proportion which I think vital to any 'healthy' attempt at it.

He isn't IMO racist or are many others. Gascoigne is way too 'laddish' for his own good and always has been. His remark was an immature one, holding up a stranger as the butt of his 'joke' in a public place his only 'crime'. There is such a thing as 'public interest' when it comes to prosecuting. How this was deemed in the public interest is beyond me. If we continue down the route of being offended on behalf of others and take that into the law courts then we are/have become a sick place.Sicker than any unnecessary, but in the bigger picture not that important, 'racist' comments, not to be confused with serious and violent racist attacks.

His public profile was a factor in this and that is another disgrace, as was bringing this to court in the knowledge he is vulnerable due to his addiction. Another disgrace as it could well harm any rehabilitation.

The person who was the 'victim' didn't make a complaint. He probably has more integrity and dignity than those who would 'protect' him and a bigger sense of proportion. It was, after all, Gascoigne who made a tit of himself, the 'joke' a hackneyed unfunny remark. Everyone knows that. He is/was a footballer and not a stage entertainer. That's a separate argument though. Why is he on stage in the first place? With this bloke. just like Best before him, when he is in public it all gets a bit 'freak show' and IMO he/they shouldn't put themselves in the position in the first place.

Context is the word. I have read of at least one poster on here who is considered a 'dwarf'. He hasn't sued anyone yet as far as I know.

 

[Wolvesfcneil]

What equivalent is there?

Iv'e been called white boy a few times it doesn't bother me but if i was too call them black boy the race card would come out

 

[Guzeppi]

Context is the word.

You have a big nose!

 

[Big Nosed Wolf]

You have a big nose!

Actually I consider it 'normal'. The monica was originally intended as reference for my penchant for reading/getting at the 'truth' of issues.

But I have instructed my lawyers re your 'noseaphobic' remark. See you in court.

 

[Guzeppi]

The monica was originally intended has reference for my penchant for reading/getting at the 'truth' of issues.

That's what I meant. You will be hearing from my lawyers for maliciously misinterpreting my remark with intention to cause me harm by sullying my reputation on these here public forums of discussion. You are being counter-sued sir!
Moreover, you are attempting to stifle my right to freedom of expression, and hereby, I thus give you notice that I intend to pursue this in the European Court of Human Rights.

Love it!

 

[Deleted member 4309]

Is calling some one fat, black , ginger or short any different.

 

[Guzeppi]

Is calling some one fat, black , ginger or short any different.

Hey, leave my sister out of it!

 

[FLEET WOLF]

What equivalent is there?

Well there perhaps isn't an equivalent, but I know what he means!

 

[FLEET WOLF]

He is worthy of redemption.

His court appearance an example of a society that has badly lost its way having lost a sense of proportion which I think vital to any 'healthy' attempt at it.

He isn't IMO racist or are many others. Gascoigne is way too 'laddish' for his own good and always has been. His remark was an immature one, holding up a stranger as the butt of his 'joke' in a public place his only 'crime'. There is such a thing as 'public interest' when it comes to prosecuting. How this was deemed in the public interest is beyond me. If we continue down the route of being offended on behalf of others and take that into the law courts then we are/have become a sick place.Sicker than any unnecessary, but in the bigger picture not that important, 'racist' comments, not to be confused with serious and violent racist attacks.

His public profile was a factor in this and that is another disgrace, as was bringing this to court in the knowledge he is vulnerable due to his addiction. Another disgrace as it could well harm any rehabilitation.

The person who was the 'victim' didn't make a complaint. He probably has more integrity and dignity than those who would 'protect' him and a bigger sense of proportion. It was, after all, Gascoigne who made a tit of himself, the 'joke' a hackneyed unfunny remark. Everyone knows that. He is/was a footballer and not a stage entertainer. That's a separate argument though. Why is he on stage in the first place? With this bloke. just like Best before him, when he is in public it all gets a bit 'freak show' and IMO he/they shouldn't put themselves in the position in the first place.

Context is the word. I have read of at least one poster on here who is considered a 'dwarf'. He hasn't sued anyone yet as far as I know.

Very well said in all respects. Sadly, in my experience, these days, people under the age of about 40 are so up to their ears in PC stuff that they have lost all sense of reason.

 

[Tezthewolvesfan]

I notice a few have said that & I don't think it would have helped. Ferguson has had plenty of players under him who have gone waywood, he used to have Keith Gilespie being his runner taking his bets. That didn't end well.

True...

 

[Dubwolf71]

I notice a few have said that & I don't think it would have helped. Ferguson has had plenty of players under him who have gone waywood, he used to have Keith Gilespie being his runner taking his bets. That didn't end well.

Paul McGrath didn't fare too well under Fergie either. With similar problems to Gazza "the Great One" just got rid of him.

 

[luckyjim]

Very well said in all respects. Sadly, in my experience, these days, people under the age of about 40 are so up to their ears in PC stuff that they have lost all sense of reason.

That's state education for you. Children now grow up being spoon-fed what to think but not how to think. Many would no doubt see it as healthy that the state has stepped in but would they ever question the serious implications this has for freedom of expression? Could they ever understand that being free to speak one's mind without the interference of the state was essential to all the freedoms, technological advancement and comfort we enjoy today? Do they ask why societies in Africa, the Middle-East or even Mexico have failed to achieve this? Instead, people grow up with the automatic presumption that anything offensive to them must incur the sanction of official authority; hence the banning of sombreros at UEA for "cultural appropriation" or the ridiculous upper-class lefties behind the UK branch of "Black Lives Matter". It all goes to show you don't have to be conscious of possessing a totalitarian mind-set to have one: people have them without being aware they have one because they unquestioningly assume and don't think.

 

[WasStefan]

maybe the hundreds of years of white supremacy and racial slavery has something to do with it, we as in white people have a deep underlying issue with racism which is still prevalent today, but i don't expect to get a lot of support on this forum

i read something recently which struck a chord, you aren't born racist, you're taught it

 

[Big Nosed Wolf]

maybe the hundreds of years of white supremacy and racial slavery has something to do with it, we as in white people have a deep underlying issue with racism which is still prevalent today, but i don't expect to get a lot of support on this forum

i read something recently which struck a chord, you aren't born racist, you're taught it

It might help your argument if you can show how 'we as white people' have this issue. Your inference is that every white person has a racism issue. That's one pretty sweeping generalisation which takes no account of different countries or political systems or cultural differences. It also takes no account of different historical past times.

It never has been an issue which can be neatly 'boxed' into your argument. Try this from a writer in the USA. Margo Jefferson. She wrote memoirs of her childhood in America's black elite society.She is still alive.

One story goes back to the height of the Atlantic slave trade. At that time some of the nation's slave owners were black. One, a Nicholas Augustin Metoyer of Lousiana owned 215 slaves. She grew up in a black elite society which, in many ways, saw itself as a different 'class' to most black slaves.

I do agree you are probably taught racism in many respects but it isn't, and never has been, just 'white' people who are 'educated' this way.

More a human 'condition' than a skin colour thing.

 

[WasStefan]

It might help your argument if you can show how 'we as white people' have this issue. Your inference is that every white person has a racism issue. That's one pretty sweeping generalisation which takes no account of different countries or political systems or cultural differences.

Do I really need to provide "proof"? it's clear for all to see that proportionally white people (I didn't say ALL white people, apologies it it came across that way it wasn't my intention) have bigger, and in a lot of cases passive, racial issues when compared to other races. I do not need to provide proof of that although I will if you really want me to. But it's pretty obvious.

One story goes back to the height of the Atlantic slave trade. At that time some of the nation's slave owners were black. One, a Nicholas Augustin Metoyer of Lousiana owned 215 slaves. She grew up in a black elite society which, in many ways, saw itself as a different 'class' to most black slaves.

As above I know and have not claimed racism is exclusive to white people, but to bring up one rare case of black racist behavior smacks of 'i'm not racist my best mate is black'. It doesn't sit well with me that a 99% white working mans forum is seemingly allowing passive racism to be 'okayed' with no challenge. As I say I know racism isn't exclusive to white people and I know the vast majority (and have no proof of anyone being that way inclined) are not racist, but to hide behind an example like that seems incredibly cheap.

I do agree you are probably taught racism in many respects but it isn't, and never has been, just 'white' people who are 'educated' this way.

Indeed.


Gazza is one of my idols but he is totally wrong on this one, whichever way you look at it. Yes the guy may have milked it for all it's worth but that's life and isn't exclusive to ethnic minorities.

 

[Big Nosed Wolf]

Do I really need to provide "proof"? it's clear for all to see that proportionally white people (I didn't say ALL white people, apologies it it came across that way it wasn't my intention) have bigger, and in a lot of cases passive, racial issues when compared to other races. I do not need to provide proof of that although I will if you really want me to. But it's pretty obvious.



As above I know and have not claimed racism is exclusive to white people, but to bring up one rare case of black racist behavior smacks of 'i'm not racist my best mate is black'. It doesn't sit well with me that a 99% white working mans forum is seemingly allowing passive racism to be 'okayed' with no challenge. As I say I know racism isn't exclusive to white people and I know the vast majority (and have no proof of anyone being that way inclined) are not racist, but to hide behind an example like that seems incredibly cheap.



Indeed.


Gazza is one of my idols but he is totally wrong on this one, whichever way you look at it. Yes the guy may have milked it for all it's worth but that's life and isn't exclusive to ethnic minorities.

If you are going to make sweeping statements then yes you ought to. But you don't have to which makes the argument invalid and just your opinon.

I am white. I am not racist. So to put me in the 'all white people' bracket is both untrue and a slur. (see you in court) A 'joke' by the way.

'Passive racism'. IMO a particularly fine example of modern 'right on' speak.

My example isn't that 'rare' by the way. Just read up on it. Slavery affects and was/is practiced by every known ethnicity in humanity. It isn't only about skin colour and no one can credibly argue that 'all white people' have racism issues.

 

[RJs Tankard]

Racism works both ways - how many times have we seen those TV programs where a police traffic cop is pulling someone because something isn't quite right with their car, only for a black guy to get out and say "You've only pulled me because I'm black". Erm... no, its because your front number plate was missing mate.

I've seen incidents reported in the media as "racist attacks" - even when race has nothing to do with it. A ****ed up bloke comes out of a club gobbing off and calls a member of the public a **** - and then that person reacts. They'd react regardless of race - but if they're differing races, it automatically gets reported as a "racist attack".

Why can't everyone just get on regardless of skin colour, sexuality, religious beliefs, etc. Far too many people looking out for things that aren't even there or being offended on behalf of others.

As for Gazza again, if he's had to go to court and pay a fine, when do Jimmy Carr and Frankie Boyle get hauled in - who use these comments, if not worse, routinely as part of their "comedy".

If only Bernard Manning was still alive - he'd have been in the courts on a daily basis - and he'd have been able to wipe out the countries debt alone via all of his fines! No need for austerity if he was still alive........

 

[astraltrader]

A lot of older forum members will remember being raised to believe that "Sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me".
I abhor racism in any sense involving persecution or discrimination but throw away stupid comments should just be ignored.
Just a personal view.

 

[loopy lupine]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/artic...-racist-if-im-from-an-ethnic-minority-discuss

Is this worse than Gazza's "joke"?
Please don't join in if you are white or male is the basic message.