McClean

[Ercall Wolves]

He's fully entitled to his opinion. He has given chapter and verse on it. Get over it.

Poppy issue aside
The guy is a ****er, accept it or accept as you say everybody is entitled their opinions either that or you can get over it

 

[Jonny De Wolf]

Its such a sensitive subject inevitably, but there was no excuse for British imperialism really, I personally think we should give Northern Ireland back to Ireland, Gibraltar back to Spain, and maybe the Falklands back to Argentina. But of course that affects thousands of people loyal to the Crown who will feel differently. And also that stance might upset our own servicemen who have lost friends fighting for those causes.

But sometimes you just have to look at right and wrong in a cold light of day.
We shouldn't really be there.

But that's why I'm not a politician making important decisions -/

The Falklands have never been part of Argentina, never.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

If that's how he feels that's fine, but then don't ply your trade in the U.K. then.
Isn't taking pounds as your wage like taking blood money?

I find this highly insulting. I'm Irish originally, lived in england most of my life and became pretty good at using an English accent due to the appalling treatment we got by english people during my childhood ( was during all the IRA bull**** so I can kind of understand). I served in the British military during my youth and have many friends who still serve to this day. During this period, when not overseas, I have encountered many instances of either myself of people I served with being attacked and abused on the streets when in uniform, and funnily enough I sometimes saw these same people wearing poppies later down the line. It has been reduced to nothing more than a fashion accessory for a lot of people, and I have refused to wear one for years, dues that mean I have no right to live and work in the UK too?

 

[Deleted member 4456]

The poppy police are out in force I see. I don't wear one on my clothes but I give money to the appeal every year. It should be a matter of personal choice, not a matter for the judgement of others.

 

[Gazaza1973]

Think the blokes an utter ****, but without going into all the politics about the poppy if this knobs prepared to wear a A****n shirt then the least of his problems should be a poppy

 

[Deleted member 5962]

The poppy police are out in force I see. I don't wear one on my clothes but I give money to the appeal every year. It should be a matter of personal choice, not a matter for the judgement of others.

Exactly!

 

[Deleted member 3573J]

What a total ****er. He does a nasty tackle on a football pitch every now and again, obviously Satan's Irish cousin.

https://www.sportsjoe.ie/football/e...ess-came-to-the-rescue-of-his-home-town-89001

 

[Derby Wolf]

 

[Derby Wolf]

I say this every year he is a sectarian bigot who supports the IRA ,hates the British and apparently doesn't wear a poppy because of bloody sunday which happened way before he was born and it's the sort of stuff we are trying to stop over here i wish they would all **** off bigots of both sides and and take their ****ing bands with them they are a dying breed over here and i knew this kid a bit from my IFA work coaching i dont remember him talking much very talented kid but he is brainwashed unfortunately

Lol what?

"Lest we forget" "we will remember them"

But McClean should get over Bloody Sunday because it happened before he was born?

 

[PREM.L.L]

Wear one, don't wear one. I wear one to remember/commemorate those that died in WW1, where it originated, Flanders field and all that. I don't wear it to support any subsequent wars.

 

[reanswolf]

I find this highly insulting. I'm Irish originally, lived in england most of my life and became pretty good at using an English accent due to the appalling treatment we got by english people during my childhood ( was during all the IRA ******** so I can kind of understand). I served in the British military during my youth and have many friends who still serve to this day. During this period, when not overseas, I have encountered many instances of either myself of people I served with being attacked and abused on the streets when in uniform, and funnily enough I sometimes saw these same people wearing poppies later down the line. It has been reduced to nothing more than a fashion accessory for a lot of people, and I have refused to wear one for years, dues that mean I have no right to live and work in the UK too?

Fair point Amsterdam, I made a similar point about McClean, so apologies I know its incredibly sensitive for all sorts of reasons. Wouldn't mean to insult you.

 

[Newbridge Wolf]

Its such a sensitive subject inevitably, but there was no excuse for British imperialism really/

Throughout the entire course of human civilisation countries have invaded each other, it’s ridiculous that we still get singled out as if we’re the only country to ever lay boots on foreign soil.

I’m not for one moment saying it’s right what happened in the past, but you can’t judge people by today standards. If you only take the history of civilisation at 9000 years, then the concept of empires being morally wrong has only existed for about 0.7% of that time, and even then you look at Spain or Iraq for people being denied self determination just this year alone.

Makes me sick the likes of McClean coming here, slagging this country off, yet still quite happy to take our money.

 

[reanswolf]

Throughout the entire course of human civilisation countries have invaded each other, it’s ridiculous that we still get singled out as if we’re the only country to ever lay boots on foreign soil.

I’m not for one moment saying it’s right what happened in the past, but you can’t judge people by today standards. If you only take the history of civilisation at 9000 years, then the concept of empires being morally wrong has only existed for about 0.7% of that time, and even then you look at Spain or Iraq for people being denied self determination just this year alone.

Makes me sick the likes of McClean coming here, slagging this country off, yet still quite happy to take our money.

I can see both sides though Newbridge. And there are always two sides.

I agree with what you say, and we can't forever be held responsible, though if we still hold contentious territory then its never going to end sadly.

 

[Newbridge Wolf]

I can see both sides though Newbridge. And there are always two sides.

I agree with what you say, and we can't forever be held responsible, though if we still hold contentious territory then its never going to end sadly.

True, but at the same time, probably the most patriotic Briton’s you’ll find are from Northern Ireland. And we can’t keep dismissing them saying they were planted there however many hundreds of years ago, generations of their families have been born in the land for centuries now, it’s as much theirs as anyone else’s, if they want their land to remain part of this country then that’s their prerogative.

 

[Saltyjim]

Lol what?

"Lest we forget" "we will remember them"

But McClean should get over Bloody Sunday because it happened before he was born?

I know McClean has cited Bloody Sunday as a reason for his aversion to wearing the poppy, but it's more than just that one event. From my experience very few Catholics in Northern Ireland would wear a poppy, it is very much the domain of the other side of the community.

 

[Plastic Shrapnel]

apparently doesn't wear a poppy because of bloody sunday which happened way before he was born

Loads of people do wear poppies to 'remember' those lost in a war that happened way before they were born too.

 

[Henry Palfrey]

I don’t really see why football teams need to have the poppy on their match shirt to be honest.

The furore over the England shirt the other year was completely disproportionate in my opinion.

 

[topcat99]

The Falklands have never been part of Argentina, never.

I have served in many war zones (a long time ago now). I have a fairly serious injury because of a meeting with a 105mm artillery shell. However I will say this, I always respected my enemy, and in some cases, understood him.

Soldiers respect soldiers. What a footballer wears, or does not wear on his shirt, means nothing to me. Live and let live

 

[reanswolf]

True, but at the same time, probably the most patriotic Briton’s you’ll find are from Northern Ireland. And we can’t keep dismissing them saying they were planted there however many hundreds of years ago, generations of their families have been born in the land for centuries now, it’s as much theirs as anyone else’s, if they want their land to remain part of this country then that’s their prerogative.

Fully acknowledge that, I have no vested interest.
Like everyone finds, there is no single answer.

 

[Paddy Wolf]

Scotland v England November 13th 1999. Neither side wore a poppy on their shirts, it wasn't even a consideration. A few years later, the Iraq War happens and everyone goes absolutely mental.

 

[wolvesaywe]

I've chosen not to vote in the past and got all sorts of nonsense thrown at me. Even from a fella who voted BNP.

People died for me to have a democratic choice to do whatever I want. And for the racists to do whatever floats their boat too.

 

[German Wolf]

I've chosen not to vote in the past and got all sorts of nonsense thrown at me. Even from a fella who voted BNP.

People died for me to have a democratic choice to do whatever I want. And for the racists to do whatever floats their boat too.

You were doing well until the 11th word in your third sentence. Have a word with yourself, give your head a wobble, etc, please!

 

[derbyrameater]

My Grandad fought in WW2 and his dad in WW1. He refuses to wear a poppy (like many others who fought but have never bought into parading themselves every year) due to utter lack of respect, compassion and help the British Legion showed during and post wars. I've met quite a few folks who think this too.

I have no issue if someone refuses to wear the poppy, I have more of an issue with people who think EVERYONE should wear the thing.

Best post on page 1 Imo..My Dad was exactly the same and gave the same reasons, he would have nothing to do with the BL formed by the butcher of WW1 to contain possible insurrection by trained military now starving and on the streets and the establishment didn't care a flying fig.

Luton Town Hall burnt down after the so called peace day riots where the now unemployed and disabled were starving and the establishment held a banquet. There is a video which is unfortunately not available at the moment, will it ever be available? I don't know!

 

[Derby Wolf]

Scotland v England November 13th 1999. Neither side wore a poppy on their shirts, it wasn't even a consideration. A few years later, the Iraq War happens and everyone goes absolutely mental.

This is it, everything has become so mawkish.

I have no problem with a minutes silence if a game falls on that weekend but holding silences with readings and brass players with weeks to go is insane. I'll probably get pelters for this but I don't care.

 

[wolvesaywe]

You were doing well until the 11th word in your third sentence. Have a word with yourself, give your head a wobble, etc, please!

I was referring to do what I wish with my vote

 

[German Wolf]

I was referring to do what I wish with my vote

I humbly suggest you re-read your last two sentences in any context you like!

 

[Henry Palfrey]

Anyway, I’m off to celebrate the burning of a Catholic. Laters.

 

[sc91]

Nothing more than a fashion accessory.

 

[German Wolf]

Anyway, I’m off to celebrate the burning of a Catholic. Laters.

Interesting you say that because although everybody knows about the attempt to blow up parliament, most of the population has no idea that it was based in the pan-European catholic v protestant conflict of the time. I find it odd that such a major theme in UK politics is hardly taught in schools. Hussshhhh! ;-)

 

[Henry Palfrey]

Interesting you say that because although everybody knows about the attempt to blow up parliament, most of the population has no idea that it was based in the pan-European catholic v protestant conflict of the time. I find it odd that such a major theme in UK politics is hardly taught in schools. Hussshhhh! ;-)

Quite a lot of local interest too, Hindlip Hall, Warwick Castle and Holbeche House. Interesting stuff.
I’m coming over all Lucy Worsley. Ooh matron.

 

[Barnet Wolves]

Oh this thread again. In a free society we can express our views in any way we so choose and we have the right to be criticized for it or to be ignored.

The empire and the conduct of British troops is open to criticism. Get over yourselves and let’s get back to football.

 

[MonkeySpanner]

I find this highly insulting. I'm Irish originally, lived in england most of my life and became pretty good at using an English accent due to the appalling treatment we got by english people during my childhood ( was during all the IRA ******** so I can kind of understand). I served in the British military during my youth and have many friends who still serve to this day. During this period, when not overseas, I have encountered many instances of either myself of people I served with being attacked and abused on the streets when in uniform, and funnily enough I sometimes saw these same people wearing poppies later down the line. It has been reduced to nothing more than a fashion accessory for a lot of people, and I have refused to wear one for years, dues that mean I have no right to live and work in the UK too?

First of all, thank you for serving in the armed forces.
Secondly, no intent to insult anyone and I did start off by saying he has a right to his opinions.
However I do find it ironic that someone can live in and make a very good living from a country that they have no respect for.

 

[blaenboy]

I have been reading the posts on James McClean (again!) with interest. A few words of background to put my views in context. My father was Irish and I have lived in Ireland since 1973. My father 's uncle died in the First World Word War and he himself volunteered for the RAF (despite his father having been in the IRA in the War of Independence) and served in Bomber Command as a rear gunner in Lancasters, completing 32 missions- a pretty impressive feat of survival!
After the war he rejoined the RAF and served for many years but ultimately came back here to live. I followed shortly afterwards. At a time when wearing the poppy was not the cleverest of ideas here- and poppies hard to find- I often wore one; my father sometimes wore one. When he died the British Legion in Ireland sent a wreath and representatives to his funeral, which we very much appreciated. I still put a few bob in the British Legion collection boxes, which are a bit easier to find now. However, I don't wear a poppy any more, though I may again at some stage. Mostly this is because I have been put off by the poppy police. It should be something you want to do, not something that that is forced on everyone. It seemed to have started something over a decade ago when suddenly everyone on TV was wearing one and then it spread to football jerseys. I find it distinctly odd to see a complete team of foreign players wearing poppied jerseys. It takes away any symbolism or any deeper meaning from wearing them.
I am still grateful to the RAF for my father's years there and to the British Legion for their kindness. However, I firmly believe James McClean is entitled to his opinion on this and actually admire his courage in standing by his principles in not wearing the jersey. Yes, he earns his living in England, but a workman is worthy of his wages; they are not conditional on his allegiances. He is not a terrorist or a member of the IRA: if he were so or vociferously supported them then I would have a different view. He comes from Creggan in Derry and has considerable loyalty to his home place and for that he does deserve respect. He is also not the best footballer around, but I know that, certainly when he plays for Ireland (which does indicate his broader loyalties I guess), no one works harder or puts more of themselves into the game. I go to most of the Ireland games and I have moved from thinking him not worth his place to realising that he is an influential player on the pitch, particularly when the team has to dig in hard to stay in the game. Surprisingly he can inspire other players and the crowd. However, my post is not about his footballing skills but more about the complexities of poppy wearing. It is not mandatory, neither should it ever be. One day I will wear one again with pride for my father, but not until it is no longer de rigeur but is something that is done willingly and from the heart by those who wish to wear them for their own reasons.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

First of all, thank you for serving in the armed forces.
Secondly, no intent to insult anyone and I did start off by saying he has a right to his opinions.
However I do find it ironic that someone can live in and make a very good living from a country that they have no respect for.

To be fair mate, I could say the same thing about people that were born and raised in the uk, very few people show genuine respect for their nation or appreciate the fact they grew up in a relatively safe and prosperous country compared to 99% of the world.

 

[luckyjim]

I'm sure that Mclean as a citizen of an open, democratic society will also respect my decision to wear a special-edition Black and Tan poppy.

 

[Chungster]

I have been reading the posts on James McClean (again!) with interest. A few words of background to put my views in context. My father was Irish and I have lived in Ireland since 1973. My father 's uncle died in the First World Word War and he himself volunteered for the RAF (despite his father having been in the IRA in the War of Independence) and served in Bomber Command as a rear gunner in Lancasters, completing 32 missions- a pretty impressive feat of survival!
After the war he rejoined the RAF and served for many years but ultimately came back here to live. I followed shortly afterwards. At a time when wearing the poppy was not the cleverest of ideas here- and poppies hard to find- I often wore one; my father sometimes wore one. When he died the British Legion in Ireland sent a wreath and representatives to his funeral, which we very much appreciated. I still put a few bob in the British Legion collection boxes, which are a bit easier to find now. However, I don't wear a poppy any more, though I may again at some stage. Mostly this is because I have been put off by the poppy police. It should be something you want to do, not something that that is forced on everyone. It seemed to have started something over a decade ago when suddenly everyone on TV was wearing one and then it spread to football jerseys. I find it distinctly odd to see a complete team of foreign players wearing poppied jerseys. It takes away any symbolism or any deeper meaning from wearing them.
I am still grateful to the RAF for my father's years there and to the British Legion for their kindness. However, I firmly believe James McClean is entitled to his opinion on this and actually admire his courage in standing by his principles in not wearing the jersey. Yes, he earns his living in England, but a workman is worthy of his wages; they are not conditional on his allegiances. He is not a terrorist or a member of the IRA: if he were so or vociferously supported them then I would have a different view. He comes from Creggan in Derry and has considerable loyalty to his home place and for that he does deserve respect. He is also not the best footballer around, but I know that, certainly when he plays for Ireland (which does indicate his broader loyalties I guess), no one works harder or puts more of themselves into the game. I go to most of the Ireland games and I have moved from thinking him not worth his place to realising that he is an influential player on the pitch, particularly when the team has to dig in hard to stay in the game. Surprisingly he can inspire other players and the crowd. However, my post is not about his footballing skills but more about the complexities of poppy wearing. It is not mandatory, neither should it ever be. One day I will wear one again with pride for my father, but not until it is no longer de rigeur but is something that is done willingly and from the heart by those who wish to wear them for their own reasons.

Well said.

 

[long ball man]

I am married to a History teacher, have visited the war graves in Flanders and found that very moving. Five years ago I would never have even thought of not wearing a poppy.

But with each passing year it becomes more of a question for me. Poppy fascism is so out of keeping with the original intention of simply 'remembrance'. I have no idea why people from McClean's tradition would be expected to wear a poppy. This country is (was?) a beacon of liberalism. People of all and no religions and all and no politics died in a greater common cause. Now we have a month-long conflation of Poppy day with nationalism, bigotry and false patriotism. Aside from the Cenotaph and the 11/11 at the 11th hour, it should be a deeply private and sincere act of remembrance and gratitude.

We've got this wrong. People died for people to have freedom. The freedom not to wear a poppy is a vital element of this.

 

[luckyjim]

Scotland v England November 13th 1999. Neither side wore a poppy on their shirts, it wasn't even a consideration. A few years later, the Iraq War happens and everyone goes absolutely mental.

I agree it has become more "coercive" and is to some extent part of the modern trend where you are expected to emote over issues as opposed to discuss them rationally; a bit like the way people adorn their Facebook profiles with the colours of the latest country to suffer a terrorist attack or North Korean generals compete over who can smile the longest when being photographed with Kim Jong-In. Ironically, those who did fight in the first and second world wars belonged to a more reserved culture and many either wouldn't have wanted the fuss or to remember their experiences.

 

[luckyjim]

I am married to a History teacher, have visited the war graves in Flanders and found that very moving. Five years ago I would never have even thought of not wearing a poppy.

But with each passing year it becomes more of a question for me. Poppy fascism is so out of keeping with the original intention of simply 'remembrance'. I have no idea why people from McClean's tradition would be expected to wear a poppy. This country is (was?) a beacon of liberalism. People of all and no religions and all and no politics died in a greater common cause. Now we have a month-long conflation of Poppy day with nationalism, bigotry and false patriotism. Aside from the Cenotaph and the 11/11 at the 11th hour, it should be a deeply private and sincere act of remembrance and gratitude.

We've got this wrong. People died for people to have freedom. The freedom not to wear a poppy is a vital element of this.

I don't see it as nationalistic or glorifying war; it's part of the fashion where people compete in projecting their emotions, for example, the "refugees welcome" and "Je suis Charlie" mentality.

 

[kennyB]

Thugs, whether they wear poppies or not, are still thugs. McClean is a football thug.