Is our strikeforce good enough?

[IrchyWolf]

http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/league-championship/2012-2013/attack/full

Strange that I should be dropping this into the well after all the worries we've had about the defence and/or whether it was being sufficiently well enough protected by the midfield.

It's still early but I think the vast majority can see, if not all approve, what it is that Ståle is aiming for. .. BUT

We are only joint twelfth in the division (or sixteenth, if you want to be pessimistic) in terms of our goalscoring. I appreciate the argument that a 1-0 is still 3 points in the bag but I do really feel that it may cost us an automatic place in the final shakedown unless it is addressed by the recruitment of new personnel rather than just through intensified coaching.

SEB is a good player but he's neither in tiptop shape or good form. He is NOT the same player of four years ago (foolish to think that he would be) and much as I like him, I truly doubt he can give us 20 League goals this season.

Kevin Doyle is a personal favourite but it's just not happening for him, despite his work ethic remaining intact. He's in a rut. We're trying to escape from the formation of which he was such a vital component, back to goal, hunting and harrying down either wing, anything but taking up dangerous positions in the box and stuffing the ball into the onion bag BEFORE he's run through the complete gamut of other less 'wasteful' options. In short, we've habituated him to not using any killer instinct for so long that I doubt he can regain it.

Sigurdarson is going to be good, very good imho for this club, but he really isn't ready yet.

Noublé could be a big battering ram option but he's far more warhammer than stiletto. He hasn't featured as much as I thought he might when we first signed him. He appears slightly ring-rusty.

So, where are the goals going to come from as we're all well aware that there are better teams to come? Can we just rely on our midfield? Should we persist steady as we are? Or should we start to look for another steel in January? I'd be interested in others' opinions as my own aren't set firmly yet, other than a slight relief that we have started so well, mixed with a small amount of ill ease at what I perceive as a weakness.

 

[Essex Wolf]

As you say a win is 3 points and as such the most important thing you can take from any game. If the ball bobbles into the goal of a FB's backside it doesn't matter if it's the goal that wins the game but I do understand you point here.

Doyle and SEB haven't played that often together in all the time they have been at the club so that could be one excuse and given time may improve or maybe they just don't work that well together and never will? As to if they are good enough, only time will tell and it is still early days but I can't see Nouble offering more or better whereas Siggy may provide not only a better alternative but also a better partner for one of them, again time will tell.

With Campbell a possible signing and Siggy getting more used to the game maybe your concerns will soon disappear.

 

[Hatch End]

Doyle and SEB don't look like goalscoring forwards, either individually or as a pairing.
There has been no sign of improvement since the start of the season and that is definately something that will need to be put right. Our defensive play seems to have improved, helped by the poor quality of the opposition teams in recent matches, but if / when we come up against teams with better strikers we may struggle.
The next two games will provide good tests both for our defence and Doyle / SEB.

 

[Perton Wolf]

SEB don't look like goalscoring forwards, either individually or as a pairing.

Really?

 

[BaysideWolf]

I have to say I largely agree with your analysis of our striking options. It is one area where we lost talent and haven't immediately replaced it with something of a similar or superior quality. Fletcher was our guaranteed goalscorer and s now doing a great job at Sunderland. We bought in Siggy who as you say is currently more promise than end product. SEB will score goals at he level but probably not as many as before in this division and Doyle, whilst being an excellent player, has never, been a prolific finisher.

A good friend of mine espouses that clean sheets win titles and I understand where he s coming from but title winners are typically frugal at he back AND score goals by the bucketload. We don't have a striker at the moment that you can be confident will bag 20 or more. If we could acquire one, as it doesn't look like big Frank is going to be that player, we wold be nailed on playoffs or better.

 

[Dewsburywolf]

Clean sheets guarantee that you won't lose matches

 

[wolfyjoe]

Let's just be happy that we're winning. Clean sheets were demanded and we've got them and now we have them we want 3 goals a game from each of our strikers. Sylvan Ebanks Blake is a proven goal scorer in this league, as is Doyle. We all know that Kevin Doyle offers far more than goals to the team. Maybe the forwards aren't firing as much as we'd like but we're winning games and Doyle and SEB's partnership can only improve with time and patience.

Both players are seasoned pros and know this league well. They will cause defences all sorts of problems, they will hold the ball up, they will score goals.

 

[reanswolf]

Sometimes you do not appreciate what you have got until it has gone. In this case I mean do not appreciate what someone brings to the team until he has gone.

We do need to score more up front, SEB is the classic poacher, Doyle "the foil" (got a ring about it has that!). Anyway, I love watching Doyle play, but would be interested to see how much better or worse we were without him. I genuinely do not know the answer. Actually I think I know, but it would be very interesting to see.

 

[OsloWolf]

Remove Doyle and we lose 90% of the posession on the opponents half.

 

[North West Wanderer]

Can't see us scoring close to what we did last time, but we seem a lot more secure at the back. While I'd say they aren't mutually exclusive, I'd say you have to sacrifice some attacking threat to be more secure.

 

[kennyB]

Can't see us scoring close to what we did last time, but we seem a lot more secure at the back. While I'd say they aren't mutually exclusive, I'd say you have to sacrifice some attacking threat to be more secure.

You are right in what you say NWW but we need to create and take more chances than we are at present. I do feel that Sako will get a few but we really need a striker who is a bit more clinical. I don't think SEB is the answer.

 

[North West Wanderer]

You are right in what you say NWW but we need to create and take more chances than we are at present. I do feel that Sako will get a few but we really need a striker who is a bit more clinical. I don't think SEB is the answer.

SEB is doing ok so far, but he doesn't make many chances himself, he's very much an old-fashioned poacher to me.

While I wouldn't get rid, I do think we need another option up there, as one injury leaves us very light.

 

[XDevonwolf]

Good post IrchyWolf.

I said this on the Frazier Campbell thread..

"We certainly need someone who can put the ball in the net from open play.
I hesitate to criticize SEB because he has worked hard, but as our main striker he seems to have lost that edge that brought him goals from open play last time we were in this league.
Maybe its down to what Ståle has asked him to do, or maybe my expectations are too high, but I feel that as someone who is leading the line, he needs to get in the box and make himself available more, and get more attempts on target, when he does get chances. He seems fit enough because his work-rate is high, but he seems to be doing what Doyle is there for.
He's not the only one either as when SEB is replaced by Siggy, he also plays like Doyle. The only other striker we have is Nouble, who hardly ever makes the bench."

Personally, I think Doyle has improved a lot since last season and hopefully this will continue. He is a quality player and I think Ståle thinks so too.

I've been a critic of SEB's in the near past and thought he was woeful in the PL, but he is working hard for the team and when we push further up the pitch when in possession as we surely must, he may get in the box more.

To answer the question, perhaps, but time will tell.

 

[OsloWolf]

IMO we are lacking a David Jones/Jamie O'Hara to spread the ball to SEB and our wingers. Doumbia and Henry are doing a good job, but mostly very low in the pitch.

 

[goldeneyed]

I agree with you Irchy (Irchy?). But if the Mirror report re Fraiser Campbell is true then it looks like Stale may be addressing this. Just wish he would get a quality central midfielder in too as an equal priority.

 

[Hatch End]

I realise that SEB has his fans on here, but there is no guarantee that because "he scored a shedload of goals last we were in the Chump", he will do so again.
So far I would say that's doubtful.

Doyle also has his fan club, but again it is no use having a hard working "provider" unless he is providing for a goalscorer.

No team scores lots of goals consistantly if neither of their strikers are active goalscorers.

Doyle and SEB may have their good points....but Bull and Mutch they ain't!

 

[GoldenHorseshoe]

The problem with leading 1-0 is that a brief lapse in concentration and you have a 1-1 and two points up the spout e.g. Derby

 

[Hoganstolemywife]

I think Doyle has been absolutely sensational lately.

He's been very unlucky not to have 2-3 more goals due to wonder saves and the woodwork and his all round play has been little short of fantastic

I think we're turning into a very different side; with Mick, our entire team was set up with the intention of getting the ball to our strikers as quickly and as much as possible.

Conversely, with Solbakken, we defend as a unit and build slowly from the back. Look at Everton in recent years: until Jelavic, they haven't had even a 10 goal a season striker but they're always successful.

 

[Mr Wolf]

If SEB gets a chance I'm confident he will take it the problem is we are not creating chances for him.

You ask any other club in this division if they would like to swap their front 2 for SEB & Doyle and probably around 20 of them would say yes please. So in short no they don't need changing they need supplying.

 

[luckyjim]

Doumbia and Henry both lie quite deep in midfield so I guess some of the attacking component is compromised, but it does make us very secure at the back and hard to play through. Our game has also become a bit more "continental" and possession based instead of attacking at every given opportunity as is the norm in english football.

At least we have a secure platform to work our attacks from. One thing that was slightly disappointing for me was our failure to break quickly in numbers when Wednesday's attacks broke down. Teams of that quality certainly need to be punished when they commit players forward.

 

[Wolfman jack]

I think Doyle has been absolutely sensational lately.

He's been very unlucky not to have 2-3 more goals due to wonder saves and the woodwork and his all round play has been little short of fantastic

I think we're turning into a very different side; with Mick, our entire team was set up with the intention of getting the ball to our strikers as quickly and as much as possible.

Conversely, with Solbakken, we defend as a unit and build slowly from the back. Look at Everton in recent years: until Jelavic, they haven't had even a 10 goal a season striker but they're always successful.

Absolutely sensational? I respect your opinion hogan but i couldnt possibly agree with you. Hes a striker so should be scoring or nearly scoring. Better yesterday but still not the Doyler we fell in love with.

 

[jackfieldwolf]

I can understand the concern regarding our strike force, but there are reasons for the lack of goals.

The reason for this comes in the shape of Solbakken's ethos. There is a great emphasis on possesssin play. This is very apparant from what we have seen so far.

Patient built up play, more often side ways and backwards passing to retain possesssion. Playing in on the ground and probing for weakness's.

We have two wingers that are not traditional in taking players on and skinning full backs, but who prefer ro cut in and lay off.

I watched Seb and Doyler closely yesterday. Yes they do link up well on the ground that is, and retain possession well, but because of this patient build up aproach opposition defence tend to crowd them out with sheer numbers.

How many times yesterday were Seb and Doyler trying to shake off their marker, 'dig out' the ball from their feet and fashion a space to let fly. Most of this action centred in dangerous areas.

The plus side of Solbakken's tactics are a better organised defence, and patient ball retention.

The upshot of all this, is going to be ground out slender wins at home against sides that shut up shop such as yesterday.

Yet I predict that our greatest goal return will be away from home where the there will be greater freedom on the counter.

Another factor for success will be a lot of our goals coming from midfield. Doumbia, and particularly Sako. At last a player that can deliver from set peice play.

Pzesko needs to sharpen his shooting boots because his live wire threat definately comes from cutting into the area and letting fly, un fortunately one of his efforts whilst executing the above ended up as a throw in on the far side when it looked easier to score.

Admittedly we have played poor opposition in the past three games but these are traditionally the games we struggle in. We are dispatching these sides not with a glut of goals but with a style of play which will become more effective as the players gel.

Regarding Kevin Doyle. Amazing round of applause from the Wednesday fans as he went off.

Great reasons for optimism at this early stage.

 

[Deleted member 4099]

To be honest SEB and Doyler do seem to working better. But I do think we need another to make it four to choose from ,it doesn't look like he fancies Nouble.

 

[Oaky65]

We're joint top, We haven't played at our best, Players are still getting to know each other
A couple can't even speak English, We have had 3 clean sheets in the last 4 something we ain't done for a long time, So in my opinion stale has improved us. We're not the finished article but once it all comes together I think we will be a force to be reckoned with.
Coyw

 

[Sandwell Wolf]

The reason the Wednesday fans clapped when Doyle went off was because it was Danny Batth who was being bought on for him, and he helped them to win promotion from League One when they had him on loan last season.

 

[Deleted member 3751]

We're joint top, We haven't played at our best, Players are still getting to know each other
A couple can't even speak English, We have had 3 clean sheets in the last 4 something we ain't done for a long time, So in my opinion stale has improved us. We're not the finished article but once it all comes together I think we will be a force to be reckoned with.
Coyw

Exactly right. When managers take over teams in trouble they tend to start by tightening them up, they work from the back and after they get that how they want it, the team tends to become more expansive in attack and they go from being tough to beat to being capable of getting wins. Solbakken is building our team in much the same manner and is only eight games into the season. We're starting to keep clean sheets which suggests phase one is going well and the attack will develop. Our strikers are good enough to get the goals, our midfield is good enough to create the chances, time will help them learn each other's games and then I fully expect to see us creating chances a plenty. The only thing I'd really like to see different at the moment is a bit more urgency on the counter. Three or four times yesterday we could have possibly killed off the game if we had broke with a bit more pace.

 

[tiggerkev]

Although the posession is good we seem to lack the ability to counter attck with speed.

We did the job on Wednesday, they were chasing shaddows for the last 10/15 mins each half. We should make the most of this. Our forwards need to be released early at these times especially as the oposing team has been attacking and struggling to get back.

Not sure SEB and Doyle can play this role like Fletcher did.

 

[Wolfman jack]

The reason the Wednesday fans clapped when Doyle went off was because it was Danny Batth who was being bought on for him, and he helped them to win promotion from League One when they had him on loan last season.

Exactly, unless they agreed with Hogan that Doyle had been sensational.

 

[Hoganstolemywife]

Absolutely sensational? I respect your opinion hogan but i couldnt possibly agree with you. Hes a striker so should be scoring or nearly scoring. Better yesterday but still not the Doyler we fell in love with.

Obviously 1 goal in 8 starts isn't good - no getting away from that.

He's been desperately unlucky not to have 3/4 (Schmeichel's save at home to Leicester actually had me gasping in disbelief) but "if ifs and buts were candy and nuts etc.; i.e. that doesn't make his record seem any better

Nevertheless, since Cardiff (when I'm not sure where he was but it certainly wasn't in Wales) he's pretty much had the ball glued to his feet in every subsequent match. The reason I like him so much is because he's so flipping clever on a pitch; if Balotelli had Doyle's footballing brain he'd be every bit the finished article.

But, as you do say, one goal in eight games is sub-par for any striker and it's something he should look to improve. It's the overall performance that has impressed me so much - he's back to the level he was before he picked up the injury that kept him out of our 10/11 run-in.

 

[RJs Tankard]

People keep writing Ebanks off, but we're only a month and a half into the season - and he's already scored 5 I believe? That's not bad going in that time, and based on that, if that rate continues, that works out to 20-25 goals between now and May. That's the record he had in this league last time too - so I think he'll get 20 at least.

We do need a striker on loan though because if Ebanks gets injured, Doyle isn't going to score many - neither are Siggy or Nouble.

 

[Mugwump]

On paper they should be, on the pitch i'm not so sure. SEB has blown very hot and cold and whilst Doyler is playing well, he isnt doing the damage in front of goal that we probably need.

 

[IrchyWolf]

On paper they should be, on the pitch i'm not so sure. SEB has blown very hot and cold and whilst Doyler is playing well, he isnt doing the damage in front of goal that we probably need.

That's just about the top and bottom of it, as I view it. No need to hit the panic button but neither are there grounds for complacency.

 

[andyc225]

They're good enough on paper, but football isn't played on paper. SEB (as has been mentioned before) blows hot and cold and for me doesn't offer enough to justify a new deal. Doyle does what he does very well but doesn't provide enough goals. For me this is an area we need to be tackling in the January window and beyond. We need a new and exciting number 9 in my opinion. Siggy will eventually go on to replace Doyle but he's still getting up to speed.

 

[RJs Tankard]

Seb has scored 5 goals in 9 games - so based on that ratio, over 40 games, thats 20 goals. We have 46 games.

If that isn't good enough for this league, as people keep saying he isn't, i'm not sure what is.

bearing in mind that over the same amount of games, Doyle will probably score no more than 6.

I'm not trying to debate which is better, but a lot of people keep writing SEB off, whilst Doyle isn't contributing much in terms of goals scored - yet he's supposedly the better player.

Which is more likely to make the biggest contribution towards getting us out of this league? I know who i'd be looking to replace......

 

[Wagstaffe Was Magic]

I started a thread a few weeks back called "where are the goals coming from?" . . eh, its fair to say it was not well received by the experts on here!!!

 

[BritInBigD]

I would think that Steve Bull could play a role in coaching the strikers - like the special teams coaches in the NFL.

 

[JOSWolf]

We lack pace upfront and Doyle worries me. He is great outside the box but woeful when in it at the moment.
His goal return is shocking. Look at some of the other strikers in the championship and they are putting both Doyle and Ebanks to shame at the moment.

 

[JOSWolf]

Seb has scored 5 goals in 9 games - so based on that ratio, over 40 games, thats 20 goals. We have 46 games.

If that isn't good enough for this league, as people keep saying he isn't, i'm not sure what is.

bearing in mind that over the same amount of games, Doyle will probably score no more than 6.

I'm not trying to debate which is better, but a lot of people keep writing SEB off, whilst Doyle isn't contributing much in terms of goals scored - yet he's supposedly the better player.

Which is more likely to make the biggest contribution towards getting us out of this league? I know who i'd be looking to replace......

I'd seriously replace both of them at the moment!

 

[luckyjim]

I don't have much confidence in either Doyle and Ebanks when they have opportunities. They both missed sitters tonight and Blake's goal was pretty much gifted. We just don't have enough pace up front to unlock defences. I would definitely drop one of them next game, if anything to stop them getting complacent.

 

[JOSWolf]

I don't have much confidence in either Doyle and Ebanks when they have opportunities. They both missed sitters tonight and Blake's goal was pretty much gifted. We just don't have enough pace up front to unlock defences. I would definitely drop one of them next game, if anything to stop them getting complacent.

Bang on. We have sod all pace upfront.