Gary O’Neil

[Bostin]

There seems to have been a bit of a shift here.

Do you think GON has secured his position and the majority of people were wrong about his perceived flaws?

If he’s turned a corner, great, but let’s also add to nuance to the conversation. One of the reasons people were on his back is because we were leaking goals - I and many others were advocating a back 3/5 before it happened.

Shock: he’s done it and we’ve become more solid.

I certainly wouldn’t be sat playing the smug card. His stint at Bournemouth was littered with long-runs of patchy results and a few good ones thrown in too. The next 5 games are massive for him, and he’s still got a lot to prove.

Let’s hope he does it!

I don't think he's secured his position yet, no. As I said on another thread, the proof of his managerial ability will be agaisnt teams like Bournemouth.

But yes I do think people were wrong to jump on him after a couple of games. Some of the personal posts on here after Ipswich were shocking, and the reaction to his initial appointment was embarrassing.

He's not the messiah when we win, and he's not a PE teacher when we lose.

 

[wolvesaywe]

There seems to have been a bit of a shift here.

Do you think GON has secured his position and the majority of people were wrong about his perceived flaws?

If he’s turned a corner, great, but let’s also add to nuance to the conversation. One of the reasons people were on his back is because we were leaking goals - I and many others were advocating a back 3/5 before it happened.

Shock: he’s done it and we’ve become more solid.

I certainly wouldn’t be sat playing the smug card. His stint at Bournemouth was littered with long-runs of patchy results and a few good ones thrown in too. The next 5 games are massive for him, and he’s still got a lot to prove.

Let’s hope he does it!

See this is where folk who've prematurely shot their mouth off try to reinvent the argument

Nobody is smug. They are merely pointing out that it was and is abject nonsense to come out with such definitive opinions that GON is useless or a fraud based on such a limited sample set. This is exactly the nuance you and others have tried to use to undermine GON's role in the last two results and ignored previously to that

The last two games don't mean GON is a top class manager any more than the previous two meant he was a PE teacher. The evidence can only really be understood over a much longer time frame

What is unarguable is that actual world class managers such as Pep and Klopp both had average to disappointing first seasons in the Premier League. Arteta's first year was horrendous.

Even the very best need time to implement their style and squad and progress will never be linear. Whether GON is the man remains to be seen but spewing vitriol and all level of accusations after only 8 weeks into his rein (after coming in to a ****show) puts you firmly in the idiot camp

 

[VancouverWolf]

The issue for me is Gary isn't managing us it is Fosun . And they want a yes man . So we are not going to progress under this until that approach changes .

Just **** poor imo but we will see . As Jeff said we are not hampered by FFP now so expecting Mbbape in January

Fosun gave us all these years in the Pl and a quarter final in the Europa.

 

[waveney wolf]

Where did I say the manager told them “not to give a toss”

You are the ridiculous one for creating an argument and statement that wasn’t even close to implied…….

The players in elite football often go “on the beach” in the last few games in the season, I am sure the manager does everything to stop it, but it happens in many teams every season.

Really ? Well it didn't happen at Arsenal who had nothing to play for did it??

 

[Ned]

I’m being cautious with too much premature praise and optimism. Going to a back 3 has made a huge difference but I’m going to reserve my “he’s turned a corner” thinking until we’ve won games where we are the bookies favourites and expect to draw at worst. At the moment it SEEMS like he is STARTING to understand the squad and get to grips with what the players can and can’t do but this, of course, will count for nothing if we now go on a winless run and undo the last 2 matches.

I didn’t want him here but the personal stick he’s received has been well OTT. I genuinely want him to be a success and I must admit that I’m feeling a lot better about things as I type this.

 

[Bostin]

See this is where folk who've prematurely shot their mouth off try to reinvent the argument

Nobody is smug. They are merely pointing out that it was and is abject nonsense to come out with such definitive opinions that GON is useless or a fraud based on such a limited sample set. This is exactly the nuance you and others have tried to use to undermine GON's role in the last two results and ignored previously to that

The last two games don't mean GON is a top class manager any more than the previous two meant he was a PE teacher. The evidence can only really be understood over a much longer time frame

What is unarguable is that actual world class managers such as Pep and Klopp both had average to disappointing first seasons in the Premier League. Arteta's first year was horrendous.

Even the very best need time to implement their style and squad and progress will never be linear. Whether GON is the man remains to be seen but spewing vitriol and all level of accusations after only 8 weeks into his rein (after coming in to a ****show) puts you firmly in the idiot camp

Yeah, what he said!

 

[TheConcourse]

See this is where folk who've prematurely shot their mouth off try to reinvent the argument

Nobody is smug. They are merely pointing out that it was and is abject nonsense to come out with such definitive opinions that GON is useless or a fraud based on such a limited sample set. This is exactly the nuance you and others have tried to use to undermine GON's role in the last two results and ignored previously to that

The last two games don't mean GON is a top class manager any more than the previous two meant he was a PE teacher. The evidence can only really be understood over a much longer time frame

What is unarguable is that actual world class managers such as Pep and Klopp both had average to disappointing first seasons in the Premier League. Arteta's first year was horrendous.

Even the very best need time to implement their style and squad and progress will never be linear. Whether GON is the man remains to be seen but spewing vitriol and all level of accusations after only 8 weeks into his rein (after coming in to a ****show) puts you firmly in the idiot camp

Nobody is reinventing anything.

Nothing has changed for me. He’s acknowledged that he can’t get the players to play in a back four, and he’s retreated back to a deep shape to stop conceding goals.

It’s bought him some time.

To disregard the concerns of fans after Ipswich is quite ridiculous.

I’m happy he’s steadied the ship. We’ve looked better. Now he’s bought some time, let’s see what he does when the pressure is on some of the more winnable games.

 

[Supadavewolf]

Nobody is smug. They are merely pointing out that it was and is abject nonsense to come out with such definitive opinions that GON is useless or a fraud based on such a limited sample set.

This.

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

IMO the only sport where fans understand less about how it really works is boxing.

‘****ing hit him’

I think you get a lot of “casual” boxing fans who know little about it. Personally next to football it’s the next sport that I’m into.

I remember having a discussion with the resident idiot in my local (every pub has one, he doubles as an Albion fan as well). At the time he was about 50, a good 3 stone overweight standing at 5’8 and was absolutely adamant that he could “go a round with Audley Harrison”. I tried to point out that whilst he wasn’t a good heavyweight just a jab from Audley was dropping him but he wouldn’t have it at all.

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

There seems to have been a bit of a shift here.

Do you think GON has secured his position and the majority of people were wrong about his perceived flaws?

If he’s turned a corner, great, but let’s also add to nuance to the conversation. One of the reasons people were on his back is because we were leaking goals - I and many others were advocating a back 3/5 before it happened.

Shock: he’s done it and we’ve become more solid.

I certainly wouldn’t be sat playing the smug card. His stint at Bournemouth was littered with long-runs of patchy results and a few good ones thrown in too. The next 5 games are massive for him, and he’s still got a lot to prove.

Let’s hope he does it!

For me personally all I can say is I didn’t want him but like any other manager we’ve had I was prepared to give him a chance and that means over a certain time frame. Again personally I was (and am) prepared to give him more time than other managers purely because with absolutely zero pre season he’s having to do a lot of it “on the fly”.

The thing I’ve taken exception to is some of the language and terms chucked at him which are grossly unfair. The whole he’s a PE Teacher, a chancer, a fraud, arrogant. Then the totally bizarre bits about gelled hair or him being no good because he doesn’t make eye contact in interviews. It’s all a lot of nonsense to push a point.

For the record I don’t see him here for the long term (though I do think he’ll keep us up) but I think a few need to lay off the nonsense with him.

 

[old wittonian]

For me personally all I can say is I didn’t want him but like any other manager we’ve had I was prepared to give him a chance and that means over a certain time frame. Again personally I was (and am) prepared to give him more time than other managers purely because with absolutely zero pre season he’s having to do a lot of it “on the fly”.

The thing I’ve taken exception to is some of the language and terms chucked at him which are grossly unfair. The whole he’s a PE Teacher, a chancer, a fraud, arrogant. Then the totally bizarre bits about gelled hair or him being no good because he doesn’t make eye contact in interviews. It’s all a lot of nonsense to push a point.

For the record I don’t see him here for the long term (though I do think he’ll keep us up) but I think a few need to lay off the nonsense with him.

I didn't want him but he has my support and is delivering at the moment.
Has he stopped blaming JL?

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

I'll confess he has bought me off in the last couple of games with some much more organised and cohesive performances. If I'm brutally honest it's just taken me a couple of months to adjust my perspective. For 6 months I thought the project was back on, we were pushing to play a positive 433 or 442 and try to trouble the top half of the table again. Then it became slowly apparent that (for whatever reason, let's not go there again) we had reverted to 09-12 Wolves, do what you need to do to survive. We've got a squad which seems to have enough fighters in and a manager who has been pragmatic rather than visionary. We've also managed to do it in a season where the PL probably has the weakest bottom end in a long time, so hopefully we'll be OK in the short term. It's still a bit depressing though.

 

[Corporate Wolf]

I didn't want him but he has my support and is delivering at the moment.
Has he stopped blaming JL?

At least until our next defeat.

 

[S G Wolves]

Agree - halfbakedjizz or whatever his name is, has been very quiet the last couple of weeks. Really odd how he had been quite prolific in his vitriol of the club and GON for a few weeks previous?

Maybe just on holiday, but pound to a piece of **** he‘ll be back after the next loss

He's an Albion fan on the wind up. Can't believe people fall for his stupid posts.

 

[SuperGran]

He's an Albion fan on the wind up. Can't believe people fall for his stupid posts.

West Brom jazz?

 

[Thank you Sir Jack]

He's an Albion fan on the wind up. Can't believe people fall for his stupid posts.

I've always thought of him as WestBromJizz.

 

[Streathamwolf]

See this is where folk who've prematurely shot their mouth off try to reinvent the argument

Nobody is smug. They are merely pointing out that it was and is abject nonsense to come out with such definitive opinions that GON is useless or a fraud based on such a limited sample set. This is exactly the nuance you and others have tried to use to undermine GON's role in the last two results and ignored previously to that

The last two games don't mean GON is a top class manager any more than the previous two meant he was a PE teacher. The evidence can only really be understood over a much longer time frame

What is unarguable is that actual world class managers such as Pep and Klopp both had average to disappointing first seasons in the Premier League. Arteta's first year was horrendous.

Even the very best need time to implement their style and squad and progress will never be linear. Whether GON is the man remains to be seen but spewing vitriol and all level of accusations after only 8 weeks into his rein (after coming in to a ****show) puts you firmly in the idiot camp

Spot on.

 

[wolfslair]

Really ? Well it didn't happen at Arsenal who had nothing to play for did it??

Did I say it happens to every team?

Nope, I said “many teams” why are you so keen for an arguement over quite an accurate statement that “many” teams (notice not all) go on the beach when prem survival is secured and there is nothing else to play for.

Also arsenal were at home last day of the season and wanted to sign off with a bang to make up for not winning the title to reward the fans.

So they did have something to play for……..

 

[Streathamwolf]

I didn't want him but he has my support and is delivering at the moment.
Has he stopped blaming JL?

He never has.

 

[Bostin]

I'll confess he has bought me off in the last couple of games with some much more organised and cohesive performances. If I'm brutally honest it's just taken me a couple of months to adjust my perspective. For 6 months I thought the project was back on, we were pushing to play a positive 433 or 442 and try to trouble the top half of the table again. Then it became slowly apparent that (for whatever reason, let's not go there again) we had reverted to 09-12 Wolves, do what you need to do to survive. We've got a squad which seems to have enough fighters in and a manager who has been pragmatic rather than visionary. We've also managed to do it in a season where the PL probably has the weakest bottom end in a long time, so hopefully we'll be OK in the short term. It's still a bit depressing though.

I think this is where alot of the negativy stems from.

We've had it so good the last few years, and expectations have risen. We've lost a top manager who we chased for 6 years and have drifted from the cusp of European glory to lower half survival hopefuls.

Some are grateful for the times we've experienced, others are angry at the club because they've not kicked on and delivered what they set out to.

The last 2 years has lowered expectations again meaning that we are back to being the underdog. In a wierd way, I quite enjoy it because it makes things like the victory against Man City even sweeter.

 

[Wolf616]

He's still gotta prove we can play positive football, regardless of the formation, so I am still very much a GON doubter despite the last two results.

I don't know whether Wolves' own extended highlights of the Villa game were true to the match or not, but we were lucky to draw imo. Sa pulled off some absolutely incredible saves and we basically had one half chance we scored and a bigger chance Neto skied. That was it - worrying from a "how do we beat the 'worse' teams" perspective imo. We were basically just fending Villa off for most of the game (again, from highlights - maybe the whole 111 minutes or whatever it was felt different).

Please prove me wrong GON!

 

[lets all have a disco]

I'll confess he has bought me off in the last couple of games with some much more organised and cohesive performances. If I'm brutally honest it's just taken me a couple of months to adjust my perspective. For 6 months I thought the project was back on, we were pushing to play a positive 433 or 442 and try to trouble the top half of the table again. Then it became slowly apparent that (for whatever reason, let's not go there again) we had reverted to 09-12 Wolves, do what you need to do to survive. We've got a squad which seems to have enough fighters in and a manager who has been pragmatic rather than visionary. We've also managed to do it in a season where the PL probably has the weakest bottom end in a long time, so hopefully we'll be OK in the short term. It's still a bit depressing though.

Spot on......this summer and the start of the season was the first time I have ever been negative towards fosun as such ....as you say I thought we was back on with the project...and was getting excited again....

I've even let fosun off with not sacking Bruno earlier because in reality we finished 10th the previous year.....but everything about this summer felt different...

As you say I have changed towards Gary O'Neil because it's where the club is at.....won't get excited, but will stop getting frustrated with it and long as the players have a go..... expectations are not high ....

 

[Contrarian]

See this is where folk who've prematurely shot their mouth off try to reinvent the argument

Nobody is smug. They are merely pointing out that it was and is abject nonsense to come out with such definitive opinions that GON is useless or a fraud based on such a limited sample set. This is exactly the nuance you and others have tried to use to undermine GON's role in the last two results and ignored previously to that

The last two games don't mean GON is a top class manager any more than the previous two meant he was a PE teacher. The evidence can only really be understood over a much longer time frame

What is unarguable is that actual world class managers such as Pep and Klopp both had average to disappointing first seasons in the Premier League. Arteta's first year was horrendous.

I agree with your general point - it's too early to tell either way. Though the nagging cynic/realist in me also says it's also inarguable that Pep and Klopp had achieved far more at high level, before coming to the Premier League. Arteta hadn't managed before joining Arsenal, though he had been assistant manager to Pep for a few years. And they also won the FA Cup in that first "horrendous" season.

Seriously, the difference between status of clubs like Arsenal should be taken into account, if we want a bright future. For Arsenal, a horrendous season is finishing 8th or 10th and winning the FA Cup. For us, it will be relegation. It's far more important for clubs at our level to get their managerial appointments right. The likes of Chelsea and Man U can get it wrong continually and still get into the Champions League. For us, get it wrong and it we could well be out of the Premier League for many seasons.

 

[JonahWolf]

What does it mean though? Complete the sentence for me

If Wolves don't win away at Bournemouth.....

We’d have 8 points from 9 games which would be a bit grim, but still likely a decent margin away from the early drop zone.
It is a ‘must win’ in regards to hopes/expectations for the season, in the context of: ‘if we can’t beat a desperately struggling Bournemouth, then we’re definitely looking over our shoulder all season, booo GON out’, or deservedly win it and it’s: ‘11 points from 9 games not bad, shouldn’t be in trouble, maybe mid-table safety or better beckons, he’s improving’.

There’s no need to make everything black or white, hardly anything ever is.
Let’s face it, the only ‘must win’ game is ever the final day of the season, with title/European place/relegation/promotion at stake.
There are plenty however, when add some context and nuance, that become effectively, but not literally ‘must win’.

 

[brianm]

There seems to have been a bit of a shift here.

Do you think GON has secured his position and the majority of people were wrong about his perceived flaws?

If he’s turned a corner, great, but let’s also add to nuance to the conversation. One of the reasons people were on his back is because we were leaking goals - I and many others were advocating a back 3/5 before it happened.

Shock: he’s done it and we’ve become more solid.

I certainly wouldn’t be sat playing the smug card. His stint at Bournemouth was littered with long-runs of patchy results and a few good ones thrown in too. The next 5 games are massive for him, and he’s still got a lot to prove.

Let’s hope he does it!

I think people comparing him to Nathan Jones etc have been shown already to be dead wrong.

He has a lot to prove, just like any 40yo manager. I think people waiting for him to be first sacked will be disappointed. I think people who love a good moan about the misery of wolves and Jeff shi and fosun and whatever are going to be disappointed. And yeah, I think we will come to the end of this calendar year and look around and think "you know Gaz has the boys playing a bit" and ffs idk but some people might be happy about it.

 

[wolfslair]

I think people comparing him to Nathan Jones etc have been shown already to be dead wrong.

He has a lot to prove, just like any 40yo manager. I think people waiting for him to be first sacked will be disappointed. I think people who love a good moan about the misery of wolves and Jeff shi and fosun and whatever are going to be disappointed. And yeah, I think we will come to the end of this calendar year and look around and think "you know Gaz has the boys playing a bit" and ffs idk but some people might be happy about it.

Why are those people proven to be dead wrong?

He has made more bad/strange decisions than good ones but in the recent games he has done really well.

Doesn’t negate the implosions against; Liverpool, Brighton, Palace and Ipswich.

and his conduct in the press conferences for those games were very Nathan Jones in what he said….

 

[Supadavewolf]

I think you get a lot of “casual” boxing fans who know little about it. Personally next to football it’s the next sport that I’m into.

You'd have enjoyed watching Billy Bremner

(mind you, SBK, he never bothered with the Queensbury Rules - his modus operandi was to punch 'em and run away, more often than not)

 

[brianm]

Why are those people proven to be dead wrong?

He has made more bad/strange decisions than good ones but in the recent games he has done really well.

Doesn’t negate the implosions against; Liverpool, Brighton, Palace and Ipswich.

and his conduct in the press conferences for those games were very Nathan Jones in what he said….

Because a guy like Nathan Jones doesn't have anything like those bounce back results in his locker. Maybe you disagree. I thought that guy was a total clown. If you think GON is the same type then we just intuitively disagree in a way that won't be bridged.

 

[Norwegian Wolf]

Why are those people proven to be dead wrong?

He has made more bad/strange decisions than good ones but in the recent games he has done really well.

Doesn’t negate the implosions against; Liverpool, Brighton, Palace and Ipswich.

and his conduct in the press conferences for those games were very Nathan Jones in what he said….

Nathan Jones also didn't have Pedro Neto in his team

 

[steve vena]

We’d have 8 points from 9 games which would be a bit grim, but still likely a decent margin away from the early drop zone.
It is a ‘must win’ in regards to hopes/expectations for the season, in the context of: ‘if we can’t beat a desperately struggling Bournemouth, then we’re definitely looking over our shoulder all season, booo GON out’, or deservedly win it and it’s: ‘11 points from 9 games not bad, shouldn’t be in trouble, maybe mid-table safety or better beckons, he’s improving’.

There’s no need to make everything black or white, hardly anything ever is.
Let’s face it, the only ‘must win’ game is ever the final day of the season, with title/European place/relegation/promotion at stake.
There are plenty however, when add some context and nuance, that become effectively, but not literally ‘must win’.

We should be beating the likes of Bournemouth

 

[steve vena]

We should be beating the likes of Bournemouth

Lol

 

[rincewind]

We should be beating the likes of Bournemouth

Sorry, have you just wondered in from Villa talk? I do feel we should understand that for us there are no easy games, not even West Brom!
Long term Wolves supporting suggests we draw with Bournemouth, beat Newcastle, lose to Sheffield.

 

[steve vena]

Sorry, have you just wondered in from Villa talk? I do feel we should understand that for us there are no easy games, not even West Brom!
Long term Wolves supporting suggests we draw with Bournemouth, beat Newcastle, lose to Sheffield.

Was said in jest mate. Wasn't it Harry Kane?
" We should really be beating the likes of Wolves ".

 

[wolfslair]

Because a guy like Nathan Jones doesn't have anything like those bounce back results in his locker. Maybe you disagree. I thought that guy was a total clown. If you think GON is the same type then we just intuitively disagree in a way that won't be bridged.

More around the comments and press conference statements than anything else in regards to his early days of blaming everyone else and him “telling them” when they did something that he could be criticised for.

 

[Supadavewolf]

Was said in jest mate. Wasn't it Harry Kane?
" We should really be beating the likes of Wolves ".

I think the full quote was " We should really be beating the likes of Wolves, even if I have to dive half a dozen times to do it"

 

[rincewind]

Was said in jest mate. Wasn't it Harry Kane?
" We should really be beating the likes of Wolves ".

I know, the winky thing was supposed to indicate that but looks like I failed. Granddaughter tells me off for using the wrong emoji.

 

[SeaWolf]

I think the full quote was " We should really be beating the likes of Wolves, even if I have to dive half a dozen times to do it"

"..and take my turn to get booked for pulling Adama down"

 

[loppers86]

Why are those people proven to be dead wrong?

He has made more bad/strange decisions than good ones but in the recent games he has done really well.

Doesn’t negate the implosions against; Liverpool, Brighton, Palace and Ipswich.

and his conduct in the press conferences for those games were very Nathan Jones in what he said….

he’s achieved a flash in the pan victory over a top team and scraped a draw with villa in a derby and he’s now a tactical genius and unsackable. He’s got Gareth Southgate looking over his shoulder now.

 

[Darvo]

he’s achieved a flash in the pan victory over a top team and scraped a draw with villa in a derby and he’s now a tactical genius and unsackable. He’s got Gareth Southgate looking over his shoulder now.

That’s one way of looking at it.

Alternatively, with Gary at the helm, we have shown that we can compete with the best of them and grind out some results.

I’ll settle for that after the **** show of a summer that we had.

 

[wolfslair]

That’s one way of looking at it.

Alternatively, with Gary at the helm, we have shown that we can compete with the best of them and grind out some results.

I’ll settle for that after the **** show of a summer that we had.

We have also shown that we cannot beat a championship reserve team and we got out played before the red card by the worst team in the league……

He has done well the last two weeks, but let’s judge him when we play a team we are equal or better than as so far he has been found wanting in these games so far.