Fosun to pull out?

[AndyWolves]

Things like this is why self sufficiency is so important.

 

[Werewolf of Wombourne]

I think the fact that we as a club have not been embroiled in any kind of scandal and from Nuno down to the players have conducted ourselves with integrity and respect at all times goes a long way in China where honour and face is very important. FOSUN as a company put a great store on acting honourably and we live up to that.

 

[lets all have a disco]

How an article can claim to be informed and then use the villa bloke as a example is clutching at straws. The bloke was a fraud with no money... Nowt to with Chinese influence.... He tried to make a fast buck and failed....

 

[Chisels_n_ommers]

As long as FOSUN still own part of Gestifute I reckon we are fine. I would imagine they would dispose of that before us. I don't reckon this season will have much of an impact in terms of our league position, they said at the start this was a transition season and they were willing to accept a lower place finish. Of course, the big unknown is how the pandemic has affected things.

If the speculative article is true, which is a big IF, then the most lucrative thing to do would be to sell the Gestifute share to the same buyers as the club packaged as a business model.
That way the intangible business model can enhance a sales price and the buyer can gain viable leverage and use the same strategic path (assuming that stands up to scrutiny)
But that would involve Mendes being favourable to such a deal which could be viewed as positive or negative depending on your point of view.

 

[wwbug]

If the speculative article is true, which is a big IF, then the most lucrative thing to do would be to sell the Gestifute share to the same buyers as the club packaged as a business model.
That way the intangible business model can enhance a sales price and the buyer can gain viable leverage and use the same strategic path (assuming that stands up to scrutiny)
But that would involve Mendes being favourable to such a deal which could be viewed as positive or negative depending on your point of view.

A bit of clarification please . Who is the same buyer as the club ? And could you simplify paragraph two ?

 

[maws]

If FOSUN do pull out look where they’ve gotten us? A squad full of talent and a partly established premier league team. We were a shambles under Bob the scouse builder. Happy in the championship as long as the fat controller kept us in the black.

 

[cannockwolves]

If the speculative article is true, which is a big IF, then the most lucrative thing to do would be to sell the Gestifute share to the same buyers as the club packaged as a business model.
That way the intangible business model can enhance a sales price and the buyer can gain viable leverage and use the same strategic path (assuming that stands up to scrutiny)
But that would involve Mendes being favourable to such a deal which could be viewed as positive or negative depending on your point of view.

A really smart suggestion my friend

It would increase the chances of some very rich individuals wanting to pick up the club alongside the 'business model' that includes Gestifute.

I do think Fosun are different to most of the other Chinese businesses in that they hold a lot of cash outside of China. That makes a big difference. I also think they have been signalling a change in approach for a while. They are owed over £100m in our accounts and at present don't have any plans to call in that loan, but they are not investing additional sums. All we can hope for is generating our own revenue from premier league income (cups etc) and player sales. When they announced they were not rebuilding the ground, that was a big signal to me in a change of direction - at least compared to the noises when they first arrived.

Keep in the premier league and keep building the squad every year with the spare £50m we make (because of our salaries are kept low) and with the right management (and tame agent) we can continue to progress.

 

[Bawtry Wolf]

There’s always talk about Chinese companies but never too much talk of American, Russian or Middle Eastern ownership issues whether economic, political or ethical. To be honest if I compare how we’ve evolved under Chinese ownership compared to others I think we’ve done well.

 

[Mardenboroughs Shoulder]

....their finger and sign some new oven ready first team players?

 

[Timberwolf]

If Guo suddenly goes missing, that's when I'll start to panic.

Until that point, I'll just enjoy the ride.

He already went missing! So even after he returned from his hiatus, Fosun are still invested in Wolves.

Mystery behind China's 'missing' bosses - BBC News

It seems like almost every week there's news of a mysterious disappearance at a Chinese financial firm. Here's a look at the latest high profile case.

www.bbc.com

 

[Deleted member 8913]

There is literally no point speculating about Fosun and whether they will invest or sell...It will be a well kept secret...just like transfers in and out will be a surprise And not widely discussed before they happen.

So no point worrying because it’s totally out of our hands and way beyond our control.Everything in the press will be speculation.

let’s just be thankful for whats been achieved so far.

and if you really need to worry you should have enough on your plate thinking about whether Jimenez , Neto and Jonny will ever be the same and if so when? ( if 140 million pounds is lost through injury is there any insurance compensation?...And you could worry about next season too if all three are not fit ...

 

[Chris H]

My understanding from previous talk about this was that the CCP started to take issue with Chinese money leaving China. That doesn’t necessarily mean they’ll force Chinese owners to sell, just that they’ll expect them to finance the clubs with their own funds or that any investment should come from funds the businesses make from outside of China.

This is why smaller Chinese investors have pulled their finances and sold up as they could no longer viably invest. We shouldn’t have that problem with Fosun having many other business ventures outside of China.

Worst case they can no longer pump more money in, which they haven’t done for a while anyway. There’s an idea in football that you can only progress with stupid levels of investment and people point to clubs who have done that and still not managed to move forwards. To me that says more about how poorly they invest rather than how much they invest. Making smart business decisions is as important as having money to throw at it and Fosun have shown themselves to be savvy so far as they now own an asset worth probably 8 to 10 times what they paid for it which far outweighs their investment to date.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

Interesting I didn’t know that

My understanding from previous talk about this was that the CCP started to take issue with Chinese money leaving China. That doesn’t necessarily mean they’ll force Chinese owners to sell, just that they’ll expect them to finance the clubs with their own funds or that any investment should come from funds the businesses make from outside of China.

This is why smaller Chinese investors have pulled their finances and sold up as they could no longer viably invest. We shouldn’t have that problem with Fosun having many other business ventures outside of China.

Worst case they can no longer pump more money in, which they haven’t done for a while anyway. There’s an idea in football that you can only progress with stupid levels of investment and people point to clubs who have done that and still not managed to move forwards. To me that says more about how poorly they invest rather than how much they invest. Making smart business decisions is as important as having money to throw at it and Fosun have shown themselves to be savvy so far as they now own an asset worth probably 8 to 10 times what they paid for it which far outweighs their investment to date.

Fosun are clever they can still loan the club money without injecting it into the club accounts which I believe they have already done. Of course If an offer of 60m upwards comes in for some of our players they have to consider it

 

[Chisels_n_ommers]

A bit of clarification please . Who is the same buyer as the club ? And could you simplify paragraph two ?

The same buyer would buy the club and the share in Gestifute and follow the model.

If Fosun are forced to sell then their astute and very different business model has value to a buyer.

A buyer would not go in and acquire just the assets and liabilities of the business. They would also acquire the business model and relationships (you would think) which adds to the value of the proposition all round. But that all assumes it stands up to scrutiny and is a great strategy.
Wolves would sell best to another investment company looking for brand enhancement through synergies.

 

[Nivada]

I just can't ever see Fosun in a bad light, you know how many owners buy up clubs promise the world and fail to even get an upturn in form, if Fosun pull out now then sure they didn't get us to where they said they would but they still moved the Earth for us and changed the future of our club entirely.

 

[wwbug]

The same buyer would buy the club and the share in Gestifute and follow the model.

If Fosun are forced to sell then their astute and very different business model has value to a buyer.

A buyer would not go in and acquire just the assets and liabilities of the business. They would also acquire the business model and relationships (you would think) which adds to the value of the proposition all round. But that all assumes it stands up to scrutiny and is a great strategy.
Wolves would sell best to another investment company looking for brand enhancement through synergies.

Thanks

 

[wwbug]

I just can't ever see Fosun in a bad light, you know how many owners buy up clubs promise the world and fail to even get an upturn in form, if Fosun pull out now then sure they didn't get us to where they said they would but they still moved the Earth for us and changed the future of our club entirely.

Yes they moved us from a club worth £30 million to a club worth £300 million.
That has put us back on the scene and no tin pot owner without the resources can afford to buy us .
In more ways than one we are now in a different league.

 

[SuperGran]

Yes they moved us from a club worth £30 million to a club worth £300 million.
That has put us back on the scene and no tin pot owner without the resources can afford to buy us .
In more ways than one we are now in a different league.

That’s a good way of looking at it

 

[Leominster_Wolf]

Yes they moved us from a club worth £30 million to a club worth £300 million.
That has put us back on the scene and no tin pot owner without the resources can afford to buy us .
In more ways than one we are now in a different league.

^^^^
this

I will also add in the last year or so they have shown themselves to be much more than just Wolves owners, they are now part of Wolves and Wolverhampton.

https://www.royalwolverhampton.nhs.uk/media/press-release-archive/press-releases-2020/may-2020/wolves-owners-fosun-donate-more-masks-to-trust/

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

I noticed Fosun wanted partial investors willing to sell up to 40% of Wolves for regular investment into the team that hasn’t worked so they bought the Swiss club grasshoppers and going about differently with other methods. They won’t give up on us. In fact Fosun have quite close ties with the CCP from what Iv read previously

 

[MolineuxMixer]

Game over

We're in extra time!

 

[astraltrader]

While I dont see this as a cause for panic it does indicate that Fosun are unlikely to provide a large sum of money in the summer to allow us to have a decent sized squad which we would really benefit from...

 

[AndyY]

While I dont see this as a cause for panic it does indicate that Fosun are unlikely to provide a large sum of money in the summer to allow us to have a decent sized squad which we would really benefit from...

I didn't see that happening anyway.

 

[Wolf of Wall Heath]

The fickle and largely impenetrable business of club ownership, and the fact that we were lucky enough to end up with a fosun rather than some of the more odious people/companies, is why as much as I like the rivalry and enjoy beating Sandwell et al, I do have a degree of empathy with family and colleagues who happen to support them (it’s not like many of us really have a choice in who we support) and I think there but for the grace of god (or Jeff) go I.

If fosun do part ways, I’ll be forever grateful for being able to travel to porto and Barca to watch the boys play.

 

[bod101]

The thing is a lot of people have invested a lot of time and belief that fosun won't stick around, don't trust them etc. Etc. So this gives them the chance to tell everyone they told us so whether it's correct or not isn't really important the beliefs are so entrenched.

 

[Shergar]

Slightly off the subject, I heard with all the roles and workload he has, Jeff Shi has a new nickname at the club - Swiss. As in army knife.

 

[Stoichkov]

China forcing investors to pull out of European football – DW – 04/13/2021

A few years ago, China was aiming to become a major player in world football. International stars were lured to the domestic Super League and investors bought up European clubs. This is all over.

www.dw.com

Have to say something like this has always been possible. Looking at the way Alibaba has said 'yes, sir' to the CCP today if they tell Fosun to pull out of Wolves they will do. The summer's window will tell us a lot...

imagine my surprise.... Simon Chadwick quoted

 

[VancouverWolf]

I kinda follow Chinese news and developments on a daily or at least a weekly basis, even pre Wolves.I have always only taken Fosun as owners of Wolves ,12-18 months at a time.
Last several, years, even pre covid, the Chinese domestic rules and enforcement have been increased and now directly impact even the very big corporations.
Hard to know what’s going on in China.....and harder still......it’s financial and foreign policy. Lots of concerns from Chinese watchers.

We have no choice but to wait and see. If they do sell Wolves in the future, any potential new owners won’t get the club for £35 like Fosun did which is a great thing for us fans as it means they’ll have to spend big. If they spend big, then they have to spend more big to protect their first spend big.......lol.
Big begats big.

 

[Guzeppi]

Well at least we won't get pregnant.

 

[Mugwump]

Articles like this guff about Fosun being told to pull out by the CCP are about as predictable as Wolves getting linked with every Portuguese player up for sale.

Fosun are going nowhere. I think some people on here are actually hoping it happens for their own little agendas.

 

[Leominster_Wolf]

The thing is a lot of people have invested a lot of time and belief that fosun won't stick around, don't trust them etc. Etc. So this gives them the chance to tell everyone they told us so whether it's correct or not isn't really important the beliefs are so entrenched.

Articles like this guff are about Fosun being told to pull out by the CCP are about as predictable as Wolves getting linked with every Portuguese player up for sale.

Fosun are going nowhere. I think some people on here are actually hoping it happens for their own little agendas.

Just the same as the posters who continually post that fosun are only in to to make profits from players. May well have been a scenario at the start, if football leaks was correct.
Its my opinion they moved away from that some time ago, people point to the jota and doc deals, but they were done for a reason and for the club not fosun to take money out of the club.

if the accounts showed fosun having £69m off their loan paid off, or a large dividend paid - then I’d accept that. The fact is it doesn’t.

people point to villa and Everton spunking money left right and centre (don’t know how they do with FFP - but that’s a different matter) as the sign of ‘ambitious owners’, which may be right or not.
In Fosun we have owners who have a plan, have a design and have said they want us to become self sufficient, but Jeff was also clear that money was there if needed. I have no problem with that at all. Despite being a **** season in terms of results and injuries (nothwithstanding the wider public health issues) I want many more years under fosun, thanks.

of course we will sell players, name me a club that doesn’t. Will we agree with all of them, no of course not - it’s never been any different. Players come and players go, and not always the ones us fans want. But selling players to make a profit or take out of the club? - not happened yet despite people keeping banging on that that’s what they are here for, and every player sale strengthens their hand in their mind, when in fact they are still sat with a busted flush.

 

[Rangiora Wolf]

We can all debate this now but we won't know until the end of the transfer window what their intentions are.

 

[Tipton Wolves]

We wont even know then. There will be some right wheeling and dealing with some of our players out on loan which some will say we have no money. All rubbish based on their pharmaceutical profits.

 

[WS10Wolf]

The thing is a lot of people have invested a lot of time and belief that fosun won't stick around, don't trust them etc. Etc. So this gives them the chance to tell everyone they told us so whether it's correct or not isn't really important the beliefs are so entrenched.

Absolutely this.

 

[MattH]

There's nothing new in that article, and it's full of "could"s.

And Inter Milan are perhaps not the best warning of what could go wrong, as they're about to win the league for the first time in many years.

Must be about the fourth time this kind of story has come out since Fosun bought us. They're still here.

 

[Deleted member 9202LYK]

Articles like this guff about Fosun being told to pull out by the CCP are about as predictable as Wolves getting linked with every Portuguese player up for sale....

It’s predictable that we get linked with Portuguese players because we buy shedloads of them. Does that imply the Fosun/CCp story is true?

 

[WKFWolf]

imagine my surprise.... Simon Chadwick quoted

prize **** that guy

 

[Mugwump]

It’s predictable that we get linked with Portuguese players because we buy shedloads of them. Does that imply the Fosun/CCp story is true?

Its lazy journalism. Nothing more.

 

[Pessimistic Wolf]

I honestly think FOSUN has done a fantastic job with the club. They have invested significant sums of money, as well as having provided interest free loans to the club with no indication that they want the money back any time soon. They increasingly seem to understand the relationship between the club and the city, which is great.

I would just urge some caution in the hope that it doesn't seem too doom-mongering or conspiratorial.

f the CCP directly tells FOSUN to scale back their European investment and redirect it internally (or indeed, to friendlier states), FOSUN will be in a very difficult position. It is very well documented that this is, broadly, the economic policy of the CCP at the moment, but in fairness there is absolutely no evidence linking that to FOSUN.

We in the West are used to huge corporations kind of existing above government and setting their own direction (for good or ill); but the degree of state economic control in China is altogether different.

I think it's very plausible that we will see less direct investment from FOSUN in the next couple of years, particularly this coming window.

That's not because I think they're terrible owners, or because they're using Wolves cynically as a cash cow (we really aren't enough of a financial asset, we're a soft power vehicle). I genuinely believe that Jeff Shi cares about the club and wants us to reach new heights.

There will be some pressure, at the very least, from the wider political context staying FOSUN's hand. There will be a desire to cover the losses from Covid. There will be a recognition that our competitors are also reining in their spending, so we're not losing ground rapidly here. There may also be the feeling that our poor form is partly attributable to long-term injuries, which could well self-correct as Jimenez, Jonny, Marcal, Neto, etc. come back.

I really don't want to come across as FOSUN-bashing here. I just think it would be a real stretch to expect big investment.

 

[Alex Rae The Substitute]

I honestly think FOSUN has done a fantastic job with the club. They have invested significant sums of money, as well as having provided interest free loans to the club with no indication that they want the money back any time soon. They increasingly seem to understand the relationship between the club and the city, which is great.

I would just urge some caution in the hope that it doesn't seem too doom-mongering or conspiratorial.

f the CCP directly tells FOSUN to scale back their European investment and redirect it internally (or indeed, to friendlier states), FOSUN will be in a very difficult position. It is very well documented that this is, broadly, the economic policy of the CCP at the moment, but in fairness there is absolutely no evidence linking that to FOSUN.

We in the West are used to huge corporations kind of existing above government and setting their own direction (for good or ill); but the degree of state economic control in China is altogether different.

I think it's very plausible that we will see less direct investment from FOSUN in the next couple of years, particularly this coming window.

That's not because I think they're terrible owners, or because they're using Wolves cynically as a cash cow (we really aren't enough of a financial asset, we're a soft power vehicle). I genuinely believe that Jeff Shi cares about the club and wants us to reach new heights.

There will be some pressure, at the very least, from the wider political context staying FOSUN's hand. There will be a desire to cover the losses from Covid. There will be a recognition that our competitors are also reining in their spending, so we're not losing ground rapidly here. There may also be the feeling that our poor form is partly attributable to long-term injuries, which could well self-correct as Jimenez, Jonny, Marcal, Neto, etc. come back.

I really don't want to come across as FOSUN-bashing here. I just think it would be a real stretch to expect big investment.

Don’t think anything there is overly pessimistic (despite your name!)... I really am not expecting big investment this summer. In fact I’d be delighted if we can retain the squad, have them all fit as soon as possible, keep Nuno, and maybe sign one player that can genuinely improve the first team.

That, and a full Molineux at some point sooner rather than later, and I’ll be happy with our lot.