Fan patience

[Yamalroite]

I wonder how you know that? I don't have patience; I'm 69. I've been pretty damn patient for 40 bloody years!

Erm. Last few seasons been ok ain't they.

 

[northnorfolkwolf]

So if this a transitional year, what next after the transitional year?
Where do people see us after the transition year? Why do we need to get worse to get better?

This transitional year is really starting to **** me off. It's like a mountaineer getting near to the top of Everest and then saying 'hang on, we'll go back down to base camp, hang around, get a few younger mountaineers on board and start up again'? **** me, last year we just missed out on a CL slot, so then Nuno thinks let's put everything on hold and get a younger side together and in a year or so try to get back to where we were? I don't think so.

 

[northnorfolkwolf]

They are trying to sign a few promising youngsters and hopefully turn as many as possible into a player capable of getting us into the top 6. This is where the fans need to play there part and have the patience to give them the best chance of succeeding

*******s.

 

[northnorfolkwolf]

Isn’t it obvious? Does it need spelling out?
young players that will take time, no preseason change to formation and personnel no fans , games are like glorified training sessions, can’t properly prepare never know who might be missing because of covid can’t even pick the team because you have to wait for results. This seasons a write off
We won’t be relegated.

Yes ok. But last season we were on the cusp of the CL? I'm sure Nuno did not think this season would be a write off , but it sure looks as though it will be.

 

[northnorfolkwolf]

Erm. Last few seasons been ok ain't they.

We haven't won anything.

 

[superwolves]

We haven't won anything.

Maybe we could all support bayern Munich what you reckon?

 

[JadeWolf]

We haven't won anything.

Apart from the league 3 years ago?

 

[JOSWolf]

12 games into what is a freak season they've been virtually written off by the usual suspects who seem to have an obsession with spending more and more at transfer windows. I wouldn't call it patience or rational thought I would call it hysteria.

Presuming that is aimed at me and a few others who have concerns about the approach to this season, Papper? I wouldnt call it hysteria or a lack of patience to realise that we clearly need more attacking options and another option in central midfield and we are lacking in several areas. Seems fairly obvious that with the current squad it is unlikely we will finish 7th or above this season which will mean we have regressed this season. Some of us feel that investing large sums in young players without a balance of ready made signings to make an impact now is a fairly risky approach and no guarantee we will suddenly start tearing teams apart next season. Again each to their own. You have your opinion which is fine but I often feel on this forum now that anyone who dares say anything against the grain or deemed to be negative is accused of hysteria, repeating posts, told to **** off and support someone else etc. A shame. This forum is nowhere near as bad as twitter and facebook. If you want to see hysteria have a look on social media.

 

[Leominster_Wolf]

Presuming that is aimed at me and a few others who have concerns about the approach to this season, Papper? I wouldnt call it hysteria or a lack of patience to realise that we clearly need more attacking options and another option in central midfield and we are lacking in several areas. Seems fairly obvious that with the current squad it is unlikely we will finish 7th or above this season which will mean we have regressed this season. Some of us feel that investing large sums in young players without a balance of ready made signings to make an impact now is a fairly risky approach and no guarantee we will suddenly start tearing teams apart next season. Again each to their own. You have your opinion which is fine but I often feel on this forum now that anyone who dares say anything against the grain or deemed to be negative is accused of hysteria, repeating posts, told to **** off and support someone else etc. A shame. This forum is nowhere near as bad as twitter and facebook. If you want to see hysteria have a look on social media.

The thing is JOS it’s a game of very fine margins. Anyone who thinks villa deserved to win yesterday was clearly watching a different game to me. For all the ‘positive’ approach that some have said villa had, what did they actually produce, one half blocked shot from a narrow angle. That was it, oh and a lot of rolling around, if that’s progress and what you want, good for you, personally I thought they were ****, niggley and we were much more threatening.
fine margines are what means we are at least 5 points worse off than perhaps where we should be;
Newcastle 2 dropped points due to a crap free kick and a Rui brain fart.
Southampton 2 dropped points - their keeper having a blinder
villa 1 dropped point (assuming we didn’t deserve to win, which I would question, but each to their own)

That would potentially have us on 22 points from 12 games, in 5th place.

Would the verdict threads, all the other we need, we want .... bla bla bla threads or even this thread exist. No of course they wouldn’t.

you’ll always have the miserable ****ers who are never happy (not you BTW), but it does verge as hysteria on here.

have we been playing great every game? No
have I seen really good play and patches, that give me more than blind happy clapping optimism? Yes I have, but I’ve always been a glass half full person
has It always clicked? No

will it? Yes I think it will

 

[Flea]

There is alot of patience IMO.
However,if it starts to wear a bit thin because the team is going backwards isn´t a strange thing at all.
Happy clapping after losing at home to Villa cannot be a good thing IMO.

 

[northnorfolkwolf]

The thing is JOS it’s a game of very fine margins. Anyone who thinks villa deserved to win yesterday was clearly watching a different game to me. For all the ‘positive’ approach that some have said villa had, what did they actually produce, one half blocked shot from a narrow angle. That was it, oh and a lot of rolling around, if that’s progress and what you want, good for you, personally I thought they were ****, niggley and we were much more threatening.
fine margines are what means we are at least 5 points worse off than perhaps where we should be;
Newcastle 2 dropped points due to a crap free kick and a Rui brain fart.
Southampton 2 dropped points - their keeper having a blinder
villa 1 dropped point (assuming we didn’t deserve to win, which I would question, but each to their own)

That would potentially have us on 22 points from 12 games, in 5th place.

Would the verdict threads, all the other we need, we want .... bla bla bla threads or even this thread exist. No of course they wouldn’t.

you’ll always have the miserable ****ers who are never happy (not you BTW), but it does verge as hysteria on here.

have we been playing great every game? No
have I seen really good play and patches, that give me more than blind happy clapping optimism? Yes I have, but I’ve always been a glass half full person
has It always clicked? No

will it? Yes I think it will

Woulda, coulda, shouda!

 

[Deleted member 11157]

Presuming that is aimed at me and a few others who have concerns about the approach to this season, Papper? I wouldnt call it hysteria or a lack of patience to realise that we clearly need more attacking options and another option in central midfield and we are lacking in several areas. Seems fairly obvious that with the current squad it is unlikely we will finish 7th or above this season which will mean we have regressed this season. Some of us feel that investing large sums in young players without a balance of ready made signings to make an impact now is a fairly risky approach and no guarantee we will suddenly start tearing teams apart next season. Again each to their own. You have your opinion which is fine but I often feel on this forum now that anyone who dares say anything against the grain or deemed to be negative is accused of hysteria, repeating posts, told to **** off and support someone else etc. A shame. This forum is nowhere near as bad as twitter and facebook. If you want to see hysteria have a look on social media.

We are all at times guilty of irrational thought but persistent calls for new players or a scattered dissection of our attacking play is opportunist and shows a complete ignorance of context. The general trend for me is massively upward but I have said all along this season is a write off given many extrenuous factors. I believe some peddle the same mantra which comes out guns blazing every time we hit a ' hot spot ' and that is what people tend to deride. I believe in a 5-10 year project which is well on course and steered by a very astute captain. Very much what Fosun communicated together witha very transparent transfer policy. Having said that, IMO yesterday was a total mess-up. They are developing, they will ride the waves and where they finish is meaningless ( I suspect 6-10) if the long term trajectory is towards top four.

 

[Deleted member 11157]

How does that post add anything to this debate?

That's what I thought. Surprised he replied to it.

 

[Contrarian]

Sometimes a building is as tall as it can be without collapsing. And if you want to add more floors on, you have to go back and redo the foundation. Might have to pull some parts down, remove some floors, during which time the building is smaller, to enable it to ultimately be taller.

I'm in software development and plenty of times, you have something "nearly" working apart from one or two major issues. Or maybe performance is just too slow. And you study the applications architecture and you realise that you just can't fix those final issues with tinkering, that you have to make some really deep changes, rewriting the core of the app, maybe. And when you do that, suddenly some things that worked before don't work any more, you have introduce a few more issues that need fixing. Eventually, you get there and you have it working as before, only now running like lightening, slick and with no issues. But there's a time when everything is up in the air - sometimes even called a "transitional" phase. And customers/managers will say "What? 4 months total rewrite just to make it load in 5 seconds instead of 30 seconds?" Surely, we're so close, it's just a few days tweaking?"

Similar in engineering. Often, a design reaches it's limits. e.g. petrol engine can only go so fast, if you want 1 mph faster, you have to replace it with a gas turbine and all the ensuing changes and complexity that requires.

A football team is a complex collection based on the interaction of unique moving parts. Some don't move very much, but still. But similarly it may reach a point where "tinkering" this team can get you no further. It needs deeper changes. I assume that's the position Nuno thought we were in, like in those engineering examples. He couldn't fix those final small issues by just changing one player, or by a small tactical change. That the foundation/core needed reworking.

 

[Warrington_Wolf]

We are all at times guilty of irrational thought but persistent calls for new players or a scattered dissection of our attacking play is opportunist and shows a complete ignorance of context. The general trend for me is massively upward but I have said all along this season is a write off given many extrenuous factors. I believe some peddle the same mantra which comes out guns blazing every time we hit a ' hot spot ' and that is what people tend to deride. I believe in a 5-10 year project which is well on course and steered by a very astute captain. Very much what Fosun communicated together witha very transparent transfer policy. Having said that, IMO yesterday was a total mess-up. They are developing, they will ride the waves and where they finish is meaningless ( I suspect 6-10) if the long term trajectory is towards top four.

I just can’t see how writing off a full season fits in with a philosophy of steady progress.

I also cannot envisage Nuno writing off an entire season. It’s just not in his make up.

I think talk of a ‘transition’ season (which hasn’t come from the club) is being used as a cover by some for the deficiencies in the squad and playing style. Just my opinion.

 

[Deleted member 11157]

Sometimes a building is as tall as it can be without collapsing. And if you want to add more floors on, you have to go back and redo the foundation. Might have to pull some parts down, remove some floors, during which time the building is smaller, to enable it to ultimately be taller.

I'm in software development and plenty of times, you have something "nearly" working apart from one or two major issues. Or maybe performance is just too slow. And you study the applications architecture and you realise that you just can't fix those final issues with tinkering, that you have to make some really deep changes, rewriting the core of the app, maybe. And when you do that, suddenly some things that worked before don't work any more, you have introduce a few more issues that need fixing. Eventually, you get there and you have it working as before, only now running like lightening, slick and with no issues. But there's a time when everything is up in the air - sometimes even called a "transitional" phase. And customers/managers will say "What? 4 months total rewrite just to make it load in 5 seconds instead of 30 seconds?" Surely, we're so close, it's just a few days tweaking?"

Similar in engineering. Often, a design reaches it's limits. e.g. petrol engine can only go so fast, if you want 1 mph faster, you have to replace it with a gas turbine and all the ensuing changes and complexity that requires.

A football team is a complex collection based on the interaction of unique moving parts. Some don't move very much, but still. But similarly it may reach a point where "tinkering" this team can get you no further. It needs deeper changes. I assume that's the position Nuno thought we were in, like in those engineering examples. He couldn't fix those final small issues by just changing one player, or by a small tactical change. That the foundation/core needed reworking.

I bet Nuno doesn't keep getting a blessed office updating error.

 

[Deleted member 11157]

I just can’t see how writing off a full season fits in with a philosophy of steady progress.

I also cannot envisage Nuno writing off an entire season. It’s just not in his make up.

I think talk of a ‘transition’ season (which hasn’t come from the club) is being used as a cover by some for the deficiencies in the squad and playing style. Just my opinion.

I write it off in terms of expectations because large scale I am seeing freakish results and exhibition play , but I suspect Nuno takes it all very seriously. Is a Europa Cup place imperitive? I can see development, changes in personal and patterns of play but the underlying ethos will I suspect remain entact in that top four is the goal. 12 games is too early but I am fully confident that upward trend will be reinforced after 38. Yesterday was nasty - no doubts.

 

[whitnash wolf ex.dewsbury]

Agree. Look back at the 50s and it was never a consistent straight line even then.

no shortage of goals though

 

[whitnash wolf ex.dewsbury]

Lots of minor issues but on the whole we deserved to win

unfrotuantely we need someone with dendoncker work ethic who can finish. I’m not sure a player like that exists to be fair

let`s just have someone who can finish would be a good start

 

[Darvo]

I don’t think anyone at the club will write off this season. There’s still an awful lot of points up for grabs plus the FA Cup. Fortunes can turn around very quickly.

 

[Warrington_Wolf]

I write it off in terms of expectations because large scale I am seeing freakish results and exhibition play , but I suspect Nuno takes it all very seriously. Is a Europa Cup place imperitive? I can see development, changes in personal and patterns of play but the underlying ethos will I suspect remain entact in that top four is the goal. 12 games is too early but I am fully confident that upward trend will be reinforced after 38. Yesterday was nasty - no doubts.

I admire your optimism but I can’t say that I share it at the moment.

I still feel like we missed a trick in the summer going into the European campaign. There was a real chance to reinforce the squad and no better time to convince players to join us. I felt it was important to capitalise while our stock was at its highest and I don’t think we did - and I think we are still suffering slightly as a result of it.

I’m concerned that another season out of Europe means we say goodbye to Neves, Jimenez and maybe a few others. Whilst the club’s goal maybe to challenge the Top 4 in 5/6 years, I don’t believe those players will wait around for long enough to see whether we can achieve it.

But as others have said, Nuno’s achievements in the last 3 years afford him the time to implement his changes and ideas.

 

[wwbug]

Leeds??!! You're having a laugh. You'd be on here saying we're going down because we can’t defend

Being defensive and losing is worse for fans . The double whammy .

 

[Contrarian]

We haven't won anything.

Other than the Sky 6, who has?

 

[Golden Arrow]

This transitional year is really starting to **** me off. It's like a mountaineer getting near to the top of Everest and then saying 'hang on, we'll go back down to base camp, hang around, get a few younger mountaineers on board and start up again'? **** me, last year we just missed out on a CL slot, so then Nuno thinks let's put everything on hold and get a younger side together and in a year or so try to get back to where we were? I don't think so.

Your analogy almost made me spew my cuppa back out.

 

[Miniwolf]

Other than the Sky 6, who has?

Plus Spurs last trophy was a league cup 12 years ago despite being in the sky 6 for awhile now.

 

[SA Wolf]

Other than the Sky 6, who has?

Leicester, Wigan, Portsmouth, Blackburn.

 

[SA Wolf]

We seem to have a lot of Egyptians amongst our fan base. Completely in denial.

 

[Contrarian]

My view is that we have to go back to three centre backs, and develop our attacking options from a
position of defensive strength. I think this is a mistake by Nuno to think that we can go to a back 4 and high
press, when we dont have the players to do that.

If we added goals from set pieces and penalties to our current reportoire, we'd be fine. Thats' where most goals are coming from these days and we've had not one single penalty this season. And our set pieces are abysmal. e.g the irony of somebody saying on the Liverpool match thread how they "hated short corners as they are useless"...and Liverpool then went and scored ... from a short corner.

Maybe because our forwards are too short so crossing the ball in the air is useless? And our players have not been properly coached in the art of falling over defenders feet while screaming, so as to win penalties? They need to sort this out now. Next time Traore is fouled in the area - and he's had 2 that should have been given, recently - the whole team needs to be in the refs face. Nuno is clearly a very thoughtful, sporting kind of person and this has influenced the team. But it's losing us points. The teams who perform theatrics and get in the refs face are getting reward for it.

 

[Contrarian]

Leicester, Wigan, Portsmouth, Blackburn.

If that's not a dire warning, then I don't know what is. Hey, let's all follow the Portsmouth model.

 

[whitnash wolf ex.dewsbury]

If that's not a dire warning, then I don't know what is. Hey, let's all follow the Portsmouth model.

why not leicester?

 

[Barnet Wolves]

Patience younglings. We're not even halfway thru the season. A tough season. We are not as good as we were last season but we're good enough to stay mid table and look to kick on in the second half of the season.

Nuno has been disrupted. Some of four players are not at the level they were a year ago, and as much as it hirt to lose to Villa yesterday I still love our club, love our team and love our coaches.

We can do better and I'm patiently hoping to see a recovery soon.

 

[Contrarian]

We haven't won anything.

It's clear now that even that would not be enough for some people. There are so many ways they would find to dismiss it :"the standards were really poor that year". "Nobody cares about the FA Cup anymore, when are we going to win a REAL trophy". "We played awful but were lucky". "It's only repeated winning things that counts". And so on, ad infinitum...

 

[Contrarian]

why not leicester?

Avoid relegation narrowly, then win the league the next season? Maybe we are following that model The 1 team outside of the 5 that always win the league. Is that a model to follow , or a sheer fluke? Well known that it was the one season when the big 6 were all in transition. A once in 50 years thing given the monopoly at the top now. Leicester have come nowhere near repeating it. If even Leicester can't repeat "doing a Leicester", who else can?

Do you think it hasn't occured to about 40 other clubs that they could "do a Leicester"? They all want to do it and they are all out to stop us, by any means they can.
And no way is there some huge gulf between us and Leicester, surely?

History shows that the clubs who overstretch their ambition are far more likely to do a Portsmouth/Bolton/Charlton/Sunderland/ Wolves 1980's than they are to do a Leicester.

 

[northnorfolkwolf]

Your analogy almost made me spew my cuppa back out.

Why? I think my mountaineering analogy was pretty much spot on. I say again, Nuno/the Club have never mentioned a transition season; it's something invented by fans to justify us going backwards. Also, it wasn't broke, why fix it?

 

[northnorfolkwolf]

Patience younglings. We're not even halfway thru the season. A tough season. We are not as good as we were last season but we're good enough to stay mid table and look to kick on in the second half of the season.

Nuno has been disrupted. Some of four players are not at the level they were a year ago, and as much as it hirt to lose to Villa yesterday I still love our club, love our team and love our coaches.

We can do better and I'm patiently hoping to see a recovery soon.

We all love this Club, that's why we're on here and are so passionate?

 

[Corporate Wolf]

thats not the club saying it though is it, where is the interview with nuno/jeff explaining the "transition". its just tim speirs opinion, wheres his source ?

Exactly my sentiments

I think Leicester are a pretty good model to follow. They sell players for big money (Maguire, Chilwell) but reinvest well (Soyuncu, Castagne) and look a safe bet for top 6. Our ambition is higher than that but it would be a start.

Agreed. Great scouting network which has been in place for some time.

 

[Barnet Wolves]

We all love this Club, that's why we're on here and are so passionate?

Get back to your facebook

 

[Golden Arrow]

Why? I think my mountaineering analogy was pretty much spot on. I say again, Nuno/the Club have never mentioned a transition season; it's something invented by fans to justify us going backwards. Also, it wasn't broke, why fix it?

Because I found it funny and needed something to lighten the mood.

I'm not disagreeing with your point bye the way as like many I'm frustrated after two cracking seasons, but we've obviously reached something of an impasse so i'm trying not to get too dis-heartened and remain cup half full.

 

[SA Wolf]

If that's not a dire warning, then I don't know what is. Hey, let's all follow the Portsmouth model.

I didn't say, or imply that any of the above was a model to follow. You asked whether any other clubs but the 'Big 6' had won anything. I simply listed 4 off the top of my head that had and that's without looking at the League Cup.

 

[John de Wolf's hairdryer]

it wasn't broke, why fix it?

@Contrarian answered this point superbly in post #133 above. Nuno considered that what we had last season was broken, which is why we just failed to make Top 4 (admittedly with 'assistance' from Mike Dean and Stuart Attwell), and that because it was broken, change is required. I agree with him, and in any event his judgement is more right than wrong by a massive margin as he has proved repeatedly over the last three and a half years

But obviously @Contrarian's thoughtful and insightful answer to the 'if it ain't broke, why fix it?' mindset is not going to satisfy/placate people who are solely fixated on instant gratification.