Fan patience

[NewarkWolf]

Plenty of successful 4231 teams

We just need a better back 4 and more mobile central 2.

 

[JadeWolf]

That wasn't what I said. In that people are more accepting of defeat if it was in some way or form entertaining. If it not entertaining and we still didnt get points then people will be more damning in the verdict.

Do you think we deserved to lose yesterday?

 

[wolveslegend]

They are trying to sign a few promising youngsters and hopefully turn as many as possible into a player capable of getting us into the top 6. This is where the fans need to play there part and have the patience to give them the best chance of succeeding

they are signing promising young players to sell at a profit , if this was moxey selling jota when we had no replacement there would be thousands seething .

 

[reanswolf]

Plenty of successful 4231 teams

Who?

Genuine question.

Of course when people break down formation deeper into these newer concepts, you really need to look at players to see if that formation holds true and if so, why doesn't it work for one side as opposed to another.

 

[Pagey]

Who?

Genuine question.

Of course when people break down formation deeper into these newer concepts, you really need to look at players to see if that formation holds true and if so, why doesn't it work for one side as opposed to another.

Spain 2010, top of my head

 

[clivewolves]

I like to think I'm patient. I even let an elderly couple go ahead of me in a post office queue the other day. that was my good deed for the day. I would have tried my best to support Paul Lambert if he had kept the job back in 2017. It was Jeff Shi who went from saying Lambert and Wolves shared the same DNA, then a month of bad results it was more a case of D.O.A.

I said on the 'next level thread' it has taken Levy the best part of 20 years to get Spurs from a mid-table team to one competing at the top end. It could very will be the same for Wolves.

I do have concerns with the off-field structure of the club. Is Scott Sellars the man to transform the footballing side of the club to match that of the other big clubs in the Premier League? Jeff Shi always speaks highly of him, though not to the degree of sharing the same DNA. I guess we'll have to be patient and see.

 

[SuperGran]

Have the club actually said this is a transitional period? I cant remember them saying this. A big gamble to do this rather than build on what we had in my opinion. Runs the risk of us losing players every summer and the same transition excuse being used every season. Fosun want us to be a top six club. Is this the way to do it? I have my doubts.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1338049645600264192

 

[Tojo the grass]

Taking a step backwards to develop a group of youngsters is by no means a strategy that is guaranteed to succeed, and it kills any momentum that you have built up.

 

[sc91]

Do you think we deserved to lose yesterday?

Overly, yeah. It was a dire game but Villa had a plan, carried it out very well, they were missing Barkley but still felt they were the more positive and got the reward for it.

Whilst I do believe in this pandemic that home/away is nullified slightly because of the lack of fans I found we continually had the same "handbrake on" style that we have whether home or away is a hindrance and a formation switch looking from a outside/in appears to just give less possession with a loss of the quick pace/positive possession attacking that was our hallmark.

 

[reanswolf]

Spain 2010, top of my head

I'm not sure I really get these 4-2-3-1 formations. Maybe its me getting old.

See I would still call 4-2-3-1 formation 4-3-3. I think they more or less mean the same.

When you look at City, as an example, I guess some would say 4-2-3-1

Jesus (or Aguero) as the 1 up front
Sterling, De Bruyne, Mahrez as 3
Rodrigo & Fernandino as 2
Cancelo Dias Stones Walker as 4

I would still call that 4-3-3

Sterling, Jesus, Mahrez 3
Rodrigo, De Bruyne, Fernandinho as 3
Cancelo Dias Stones Walker as 4.

I understand the subtle differences but think the former over-complicates what is in effect a fluid situation on the pitch.

Looking at Wolves yesterday: -

In a 4-2-3-1: -

Silva 1
Neto Podence Traore in 3
Mouts Dendoncker in 2
Marcal, Saiss, Coady, Semedo in 4

So what is the difference between the City and Wolves 4-2-3-1 (I realise City are a top team)

For me, whatever formation you choose to call it, the obvious difference is that all 'our' attacking midfielders Traore Podence Neto (if that is what they are called these days) flit in and out as peripheral players, whereas in City's 3, Du Bruyne is more a box-to box attacking CM with constant great influence in play defensively and attacking play. Its a fundamental difference to our 3 and of course we would all like Du Bruyne ! But one of our attacking midfielders needs to be centrally involved rather than peripheral.

Maybe for us, playing Traore, Neto, and Podence (all very good individual players) destablises us too much and is too much of a luxury? A 'Du Bruyne type' in place of one of them, would tranform our ability to successfully transition, in my opinion. Easier said that done of course, I sound like I am playing Football Manager -.

Just my opinion.

 

[wolveslegend]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1338049645600264192

thats not the club saying it though is it, where is the interview with nuno/jeff explaining the "transition". its just tim speirs opinion, wheres his source ?

 

[wolvesjoe]

Great danger of exaggeration and hysteria in response to yesterday.

Wolves should have won the game, but got caught out by a lack of ruthlessness in finishing and a fine goalkeeping
performance.

If they had won as they should hve done, we would be set up to go above Chelsea on Tuesday night, and an excellent
start to the season.

In other words, we havent stopped being a very good side, capable of a top 6 finish.

My view is that we have to go back to three centre backs, and develop our attacking options from a
position of defensive strength. I think this is a mistake by Nuno to think that we can go to a back 4 and high
press, when we dont have the players to do that.

But that doesnt stop me from seeing the ability and potential of this squad.

 

[wolvesjoe]

thats not the club saying it though is it, where is the interview with nuno/jeff explaining the "transition". its just tim speirs opinion, wheres his source ?

Spiers is essentially an idiot about football, who has the classic fan bipolar disorder. Just ignore.

 

[SuperGran]

thats not the club saying it though is it, where is the interview with nuno/jeff explaining the "transition". its just tim speirs opinion, wheres his source ?

Isn’t it obvious? Does it need spelling out?
young players that will take time, no preseason change to formation and personnel no fans , games are like glorified training sessions, can’t properly prepare never know who might be missing because of covid can’t even pick the team because you have to wait for results. This seasons a write off
We won’t be relegated.

 

[Fenrir_]

That wasn't what I said. In that people are more accepting of defeat if it was in some way or form entertaining. If it not entertaining and we still didnt get points then people will be more damning in the verdict.

I think it's pretty clear that there are plenty who won't accept defeat no matter what. Their keeper got man of the match yesterday, shouldn't have been allowed to but because of poor finishing he was the only contender having made a series of saves

So we lose a game 1-0 to an injury time penalty with their keeper getting man of the match, and we have to put up with this crazy level of criticism?!

Dunno, maybe people are just reading a write up rather than watching the match and seeing we lost 1-0 to a last minute penalty conceded by Semedo. Either that or they genuinely can't remember any of the 93 minutes before it.

Don't get me wrong, we weren't brilliant by any stretch but better finishing (or a bit of luck - Silva) and we're cruising to a 2-0 or 3-0 win, are there any complaints then? I doubt it

 

[JOSWolf]

Considering how much they’ve already spent, what kind of figure are you talking about when you say “push the boat out?”

What was our net spend in the summer Jade? I think we should be able to invest this window coming up in a few players that we clearly need. I admit we wont be spending anywhere near Chelsea and Man City levels but by pushing the boat out I mean investing in the attacking players and central midfield player we now clearly need.

 

[JOSWolf]

OK let's spunk 300million into players, which is another big gamble. We may/may not get into to 6 (Everton), then 18 months down the line the manager gets flack, leaves, sacked and a new manager comes in wanting to spend another 150 and so on.

It's all *******s, where do you think the cash will come from? If you can't see what the club are trying to do and demand instant success, then you may as well **** off and watch city/Liverpool.

I wont **** off thanks. Love the club but clearly think differently to you. Surprised at the tone of your post to me Pagey as we normally get on ok on here and debate quite well.

 

[JOSWolf]

Money can't be too much of a concern if we are prepared to 'gamble' on a £35m 18-year old for the future, rather than improve the 1st team.

Getting to the QF of a European competition and finishing 7th put Wolves as a club in the best shop window we will ever be in internationally.

I don't demand we are up there, I am not impatient (happy to wait to see if things click) as I understand it is very, very difficult, but I also feel that if you stagnate it becomes very hard to reverse. Football clubs are like cruise ships, very difficult to change trajectory. I just feel we have missed the best opportunity we might ever have been in, in recent years, to even go further.

Personally, I would rather have spent the £45m we have spent on a quality CM (maybe 2 of them at £20m each), and a back-up striker for £5m. You don't always have to spend big money to acquire quality.

I also don't think its much about transition either, its about players. It's a sad fact that one or two ageing players have found it hard to maintain a required premiership level so far, but sadly we saw this at the end of the last season, though it was a long hard slog for all of them. It's not what we did in the transfer window that has affected us, it is failure to address other key areas that is affecting us, in my view. Yes we miss Raul immensely, but come on, he looked a lost and frustrated figure most of the time, prior to the injury. He realised it more than anyone.

More and more people are beginning to acknowledge our areas of weakness (eg pundits on BT Sport syaing yesterday that not a single Wolves central midfielder has scored this season), others will remain in denial and call us negative ****ers.

Its all about opinion of course. I will stick to mine, not because I want to undermine anything or anyone, I would never boo anything or anyone at a game, but because it's what I see with my own eyes. I fully appreciate how lucky we are and how well we have done over the past 3 years. No one needs to tell me. I desperately want Nuno to fix things. Love the bloke.

Brilliant post reans. Top poster on here who is prepared to debate without insults.

 

[wolvesjoe]

I wont **** off thanks. Love the club but clearly think differently to you. Surprised at the tone of your post to me Pagey as we normally get on ok on here and debate quite well.

You're a serial hysteric who consistently contaminates this forum with highly predictable, repetitive pessimistic posts.

That is not debate.

 

[JOSWolf]

Taking a step backwards to develop a group of youngsters is by no means a strategy that is guaranteed to succeed, and it kills any momentum that you have built up.

Totally agree. An extremely risky strategy in my opinion but we will see what happens.

 

[JOSWolf]

You're a serial hysteric who consistently contaminates this forum with highly predictable, repetitive pessimistic posts.

That is not debate.

What an absolute load of crap. I'll leave you to it as you appear to be another who cant debate without insults.

 

[Big Saft Kid]

We aren't getting players into the box and none of our central midfielders have scored so far.
Dendoncker is trying to, but is fundamentally not an attacking CM.

I don't see how we can transform successfully from a 3-5-2 to a 4-4-2 with deep-sitting defensive midfielders.
I don't think its possible. Is it? Genuine question.

What do people think?

I have come to the conclusion that Nuno's basic approach to football, whatever the formation, is safety first. Whatever way we play his aim is to not concede, to be one of the meanest defences in the league. That's a different mind-set from aiming to outscore the opposition by as many goals as possible. We will, under Nuno, never be flooding the box with players. He will put the emphasis instead on training players to take a higher proportion of the few chances we create, or, as he always puts it, 'being more clinical'. So far that isn't working, we just don't have a Jimmy Greaves or an Alan Rush, still less a Steve Bull. I am afraid I just see more of the same, 0-0, 1-0, 1-1, 0-1 games.

 

[JadeWolf]

What was our net spend in the summer Jade? I think we should be able to invest this window coming up in a few players that we clearly need. I admit we wont be spending anywhere near Chelsea and Man City levels but by pushing the boat out I mean investing in the attacking players and central midfield player we now clearly need.

I think Fosun have backed Nuno very well up to now and I’d expect them to do the same in January.

 

[JOSWolf]

I think Fosun have backed Nuno very well up to now and I’d expect them to do the same in January.

Hope so Jade. Could be quite a big window for us in January potentially. We will see what happens.

 

[Lou Pine]

The lack of patience doesn’t particularly surprise me as I’ve had a season ticket since 1989 so I’m used to being surrounded by manic depressives who are ready to self combust following a misplaced pass. What does shock me though is the level of vitriol that some people use in their scathing attacks on players.
I’m not saying I’ve seen it on here but on social media some players are really being laid into. It appears that lots of people have it in for Silva (seemingly based on price tag not on performance), Traore (back to that again, yawn) and now Semedo. They’re our players, support them don’t insult them.

In my time I’ve only ever genuinely disliked Steve Sedgley and Roger Johnson. For me, their attitude stank. I wouldn’t give anyone else stick even though there’s been plenty of cloggers over the years. Stay calm and trust Nuno, he will improve individuals and as a result the team will get better.

 

[JadeWolf]

Hope so Jade. Could be quite a big window for us in January potentially. We will see what happens.

We’re in a bit of a tangle at the minute but no need to panic. Fosun/Nuno haven’t let us down up to this point and more importantly when they have made mistakes they’ve owned them and learnt.

 

[Oh When the Wolves]

Overly, yeah. It was a dire game but Villa had a plan, carried it out very well, they were missing Barkley but still felt they were the more positive and got the reward for it.

Whilst I do believe in this pandemic that home/away is nullified slightly because of the lack of fans I found we continually had the same "handbrake on" style that we have whether home or away is a hindrance and a formation switch looking from a outside/in appears to just give less possession with a loss of the quick pace/positive possession attacking that was our hallmark.

I only remember one villa shot on target.

We didn’t deserve to lose that match.

 

[Pagey]

I wont **** off thanks. Love the club but clearly think differently to you. Surprised at the tone of your post to me Pagey as we normally get on ok on here and debate quite well.

OK you love the club and want whats best for them, I see that, however every player that gets linked you want us sign. You never consider how he may fit into the nucleus of the squad, how he would adapt to living and working in Wolverhampton. If we had taken your desire for players on board we would have a 87 man squad. Our wage bill would be 300million and our future as a club, once again in serious jeopardy. Throwing cash at the problem is always a quick fix, but isn't sustainable, we saw that under Hayward.

I reckon you have seen some dire football at molineux, the last few years I've witnessed the best, (others who will go further back may not agree). All I'm asking is perhaps relax a little, the club has a plan, I'm sure they know what theyre doing. If we finish midtable, is that the end of the project?

Finishing 7th twice in our first season back has perhaps given people the idea that the prem is easy, it's not, there's 20 teams who can get a result on their day against anyone, it can be split into 3 groups if you like, top6, midtable and those who have the ambition to stay up. We're currently in the midtable group, the next step is massive, and will take time to achieve.

 

[Oh When the Wolves]

We’re in a bit of a tangle at the minute but no need to panic. Fosun/Nuno haven’t let us down up to this point and more importantly when they have made mistakes they’ve owned them and learnt.

Lots of minor issues but on the whole we deserved to win

unfrotuantely we need someone with dendoncker work ethic who can finish. I’m not sure a player like that exists to be fair

 

[JadeWolf]

OK you love the club and want whats best for them, I see that, however every player that gets linked you want us sign. You never consider how he may fit into the nucleus of the squad, how he would adapt to living and working in Wolverhampton. If we had taken your desire for players on board we would have a 87 man squad. Our wage bill would be 300million and our future as a club, once again in serious jeopardy. Throwing cash at the problem is always a quick fix, but isn't sustainable, we saw that under Hayward.

I reckon you have seen some dire football at molineux, the last few years I've witnessed the best, (others who will go further back may not agree). All I'm asking is perhaps relax a little, the club has a plan, I'm sure they know what theyre doing. If we finish midtable, is that the end of the project?

Finishing 7th twice in our first season back has perhaps given people the idea that the prem is easy, it's not, there's 20 teams who can get a result on their day against anyone, it can be split into 3 groups if you like, top6, midtable and those who have the ambition to stay up. We're currently in the midtable group, the next step is massive, and will take time to achieve.

This is where I am, we’ve made tremendous steps forward as a club under Nuno and Fosun, but I genuinely think the next step is probably the biggest one yet, and it could well take time. It’s down to those in charge to create a strategy to make that step so we have to put our trust in them to do it.

 

[Deleted member 11157]

12 games into what is a freak season they've been virtually written off by the usual suspects who seem to have an obsession with spending more and more at transfer windows. I wouldn't call it patience or rational thought I would call it hysteria.

 

[Pagey]

This is where I am, we’ve made tremendous steps forward as a club under Nuno and Fosun, but I genuinely think the next step is probably the biggest one yet, and it could well take time. It’s down to those in charge to create a strategy to make that step so we have to put our trust in them to do it.

I just can't see how throwing 150million in a window would bridge that gap. It may/may not help us achieve top 6 that season, if luck went our way, but could it push us the following seasons. I very much doubt it. Leicester had an incredible season, won the title but havent reached top 4 since.

We need a long term plan that gives us the clout to attract players (in our wage,, transfer structure) to come anywhere close to sustaining a challenge. If that means selling and reinvesting, then I buy into that.

 

[JadeWolf]

I just can't see how throwing 150million in a window would bridge that gap. It may/may not help us achieve top 6 that season, if luck went our way, but could it push us the following seasons. I very much doubt it. Leicester had an incredible season, won the title but havent reached top 4 since.

We need a long term plan that gives us the clout to attract players (in our wage,, transfer structure) to come anywhere close to sustaining a challenge. If that means selling and reinvesting, then I buy into that.

I think Leicester are a pretty good model to follow. They sell players for big money (Maguire, Chilwell) but reinvest well (Soyuncu, Castagne) and look a safe bet for top 6. Our ambition is higher than that but it would be a start.

 

[superwolves]

Weve only been in the premier 5 minutes theres established clubs been trying to achieve what were trying for years. The top clubs pay the most money and sign the best players if someone like burnley or Southampton have a top player then a man city come along and take him. Our strategy of developing youth seems the best chance possible to get top players good enough to compete with them long term but its reliant on people accepting the situation and understanding it otherwise it will most probably fail and that's not what any of us want. Were so lucky to have Nuno every player he gets he improves what more can anyone ask for from him than that. Let him spend £80 million on centre halves and midfielders like man utd have and see where we are. Were not that club at the moment

 

[Oh When the Wolves]

OK you love the club and want whats best for them, I see that, however every player that gets linked you want us sign. You never consider how he may fit into the nucleus of the squad, how he would adapt to living and working in Wolverhampton. If we had taken your desire for players on board we would have a 87 man squad. Our wage bill would be 300million and our future as a club, once again in serious jeopardy. Throwing cash at the problem is always a quick fix, but isn't sustainable, we saw that under Hayward.

I reckon you have seen some dire football at molineux, the last few years I've witnessed the best, (others who will go further back may not agree). All I'm asking is perhaps relax a little, the club has a plan, I'm sure they know what theyre doing. If we finish midtable, is that the end of the project?

Finishing 7th twice in our first season back has perhaps given people the idea that the prem is easy, it's not, there's 20 teams who can get a result on their day against anyone, it can be split into 3 groups if you like, top6, midtable and those who have the ambition to stay up. We're currently in the midtable group, the next step is massive, and will take time to achieve.

Agreed

it’s frustrating some of the teething issues but when it will come good it come really good .

still can’t stand villa beating us or being ahead of us for probably the next 10-15 games mind , potentially even this season.

Next season our side should be ready to rock and roll though

 

[Darvo]

This is where I am, we’ve made tremendous steps forward as a club under Nuno and Fosun, but I genuinely think the next step is probably the biggest one yet, and it could well take time. It’s down to those in charge to create a strategy to make that step so we have to put our trust in them to do it.

The odds are heavily stacked against us breaking into the very top group of teams. We have to be realistic and also be prepared for it never happening. That’s not to say that we shouldn’t strive for it ... and with the current owners / management, we do stand a chance.

I’m very much enjoying the ride, after decades of mediocrity (at best), and think the immediate future is intriguing. I feel Nuno needs to shake up the playing staff a bit and, if he intends to stick with a back 4, look for players that fit the requirement.

 

[Pagey]

Agreed

it’s frustrating some of the teething issues but when it will come good it come really good .

still can’t stand villa beating us or being ahead of us for probably the next 10-15 games mind , potentially even this season.

Next season our side should be ready to rock and roll though

Whose this villa you speak of?

 

[Timberwolf]

It’s the day after and I’m starting to mellow and look at the table with perspective. If we were 6th and only four points from the fourth Champions League spot, we’d all be reasonably excited. Instead, we’re 12th but still only four points from a Champions League place. It’s a funny old season this. Everyone is capable of beating their opponents, whoever they may be.
Getting goosed at homecby Villa doesn’t rest easy with me in the slightest...but we’re not 2nd bottom with 6 points.

 

[Axle]

Patience?

Aren’t they the people who are ill in hospital with C19?

You need the NHS website, not a Wolves forum

 

[northnorfolkwolf]

What’s another 12 months in the grand scheme of things then.

(Insert smiley)

What's going to happen in the next 12 months?