Bruno- stay or out?

[Fifty Niner]

I think Nuno saw them. He made reference to it after Sevilla. No coincidence for me that he then took an age to sign his contract and seemed to spend the majority of the season ****ed off.

The common denominator is the bean counter in the CEO’s chair who thinks innovation comes in the form of spending as little as possible on players who show an iota of potential.

To be fair we did sign a lot of players, all defenders with the exception of an on loan midfielder who barely got a game and a young striker who wasn’t meant as a full time first team ready player. This struck me as odd given Nuno’s stated ambition to be more expansive. Reactions to performances his final season have been well documented by fans.

But it was the performances of Nuno’s that suggested that it is Nuno’s defensive, cautious mindset that was a major contributing factor to our dire performances. Hence, why Bruno was brought in with idea of bringing the best out of our players. After all, many of us had commented how much better we looked when playing on the front foot.

Bruno’s first 3 games suggested the players were happy with his new approach and fans were also happy with our new attack minded approach. Sadly, early defeats were due to an inability to score goals, a known problem, and as the season progressed we’ve generally gone back to the same way of playing under Nuno. Whether this was by design or because the players can’t play a more expansive style it seems to have resulted in the same stale performances as last season.

As others have commented on, for a team on the verge of top four not that long ago and up until yesterday in with a real shout of European football, the lack of ambition on the pitch has been awful. It’s as if they don’t want it and both manager and players seem to have slowly imploded.

Is this down to the effectively Nuno’s team controlling the football, Bruno’s lack of dressing room presence to get the players to play a different way or because Bruno is out of his depth? One thing seems certain and that is with end of season just around the corner we have more points than last season and will finish in a higher position but our goals scored hasn’t improved and neither have our performances it seems.

 

[sedgwolf1980]

PL games we have gone behind in (and the final score) this season.

0-1 Leicester
0-1 Spurs
0-1 United
0-2 Brentford
3-2 Villa (

)
0-2 Palace
0-1 Liverpool
0-1 City
0-1 Arsenal
0-1 West Ham
0-2 Palace
0-1 Newcastle
0-1 Burnley
0-3 Brighton

We've gone behind in 14 games this season and got just three points from a losing position. Not only that - we haven't even scored one goal in the other games when we have conceded first!

I’m by no means Bruno out, but that’s a quite staggering set of results. Really not sure what to make of it.

Bizarre how under Nuno we had that thing about only scoring in second halves.

Something quite truly bizarre, and not quite right, about those two patterns.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

I put unsure. I think we need to give him a season to build his own team before judging

It’s not his fault the players have downed tools

 

[Mugwump]

3 scenarios here…
A. Bruno stays, the club go balls out and back him whole heartedly.
B. Bruno goes, the club get another manager and back him whole heartedly
C. Bruno or another manager are tasked with managing a stale, unbalanced squad, littered with a few top drawer players in fairness, but with minimal investment.

Looks to me like it’s option C as things stand, which means more seasons like the last couple. On the flip side however there were noises on here and in the press that the club planned to back Lage this summer, so maybe it will be option A after all.

Lage is far from faultless. Naive in some situations imo. Plus these players we hold dear to our hearts as they have given us our best period in over 40 years, however, doesn’t mean they are blameless, even the likes of Raul.

Really not sure what to make of it all.

I'd prefer to see us back the bloke tbh, but i did wonder if the wheels were starting to fall off when he slated young players in public. As i said earlier, if its true about the bust up, and it really appears the players arent giving everything for him ( which i dont like at all ) then the writing is on the wall, he will go.

On the whole adventure from when Nuno took over, even playing poorly last season, the team spirit and their togetherness was still there. I'm seeing that get eroded away over the last few weeks. We seem incapable of getting anything from games we fall behind in. I'm not sure where its all going to leave Bruno tbh.

 

[Mugwump]

I put unsure. I think we need to give him a season to build his own team before judging

It’s not his fault the players have downed tools

I think it has to be somewhat his fault if he cant get them to play for him. Even with Solbakken when it happened, he had to have done something to get certain ones offside. What i dont like though is players using not liking a manager to not give their best. They should be playing for the fans as much as anyone.

 

[Locks Heath Wolf]

We’ve been on a downward spiral for months now, if he could’ve changed it he would’ve by now I think. Great first half to season but this year will be remembered as a missed opportunity for another trip into Europe for me.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

I think it has to be somewhat his fault if he cant get them to play for him. Even with Solbakken when it happened, he had to have done something to get certain ones offside. What i dont like though is players using not liking a manager to not give their best. They should be playing for the fans as much as anyone.

Solbakken it was still Micks squad with toxic players like O’Hara about only players any good was Sako? Boukari & Margrettier hardly ever played??

I think the players have been told what’s going to happen in the summer / changes planned and well they’ve thrown their toys out the pram (my own theory) from my own thoughts I reckon this team is going to be ripped up big time. After yesterday alarm bells are ringing for me. Even Coady didn’t look bothered he’s our leader

 

[Mugwump]

Solbakken it was still Micks squad with toxic players like O’Hara about only players any good was Sako? Boukari & Margrettier hardly ever played??

I think the players have been told what’s going to happen in the summer / changes planned and well they’ve thrown their toys out the pram (my own theory) from my own thoughts I reckon this team is going to be ripped up big time. After yesterday alarm bells are ringing for me. Even Coady didn’t look bothered he’s our leader

I dont think it ever ends well when a manager turn on the players in public. Team spirit has been a big thing here, it looks shot to bits and thats a concern.

 

[jrpb-3]

On balance over the season and based on the good parts and what Bruno had done previously I'd have said back him get players in to allow us to play the more attacking style and give him a season to improve things ( theres always the proviso that if things go badly a manager may always only be 6-7 games from getting the sack). Looking at whats happened the last few games and the rumours of a bust up then if he has lost the dressing room then the writing is on the wall, regardless of whos fault that might be a big part of the managers job is to motivate the team and help build the team spirit, he needs to be able to get that back and quick or he will be gone. Clear the air and get the players back on side, or if there are one or 2 causing the issues like with the bomb squad then get them out of the squad and get the rest of them back together. At the moment it's looking like we could be looking for a new manager and quite a few new players in the summer

 

[Bill McCai]

I’m by no means Bruno out, but that’s a quite staggering set of results. Really not sure what to make of it.

Bizarre how under Nuno we had that thing about only scoring in second halves.

Something quite truly bizarre, and not quite right, about those two patterns.

To not even be able to score a goal (one game apart) whenever we concede first....that is unbelievable. I'm not sure what it says about the management but it is not good. Basically when we concede first we are not only almost guaranteed to lose - we will not even score a single goal.

 

[marrs-guitar]

I dont think it ever ends well when a manager turn on the players in public. Team spirit has been a big thing here, it looks shot to bits and thats a concern.

But he didn't turn on "the players" collectively.

He aimed his fire at certain young players who aren't even regular members of the starting XI. We don't know that such comments weren't actually well received by the established players. I think Neves was making statements along the lines of if players don't fit in with our work ethic and culture, then they won't survive here.

I really don't think what he says about flop signings like Hoever or a loanee like Trincao is really going to cause the players to down tools and accept losing once we go a goal down.

It all comes back to the same issue of the club not having delivered any goalscorers, which will always dent the confidence of a team, if we don't really believe that they can punish the opposition or that one goal against probably means a loss. We had it last season minus Raul and Neto, and the confidence already looked fragile, and the club blew the opportunity to do anything constructive about it in the transfer windows since; in January they actually weakened the attack even further, unbelievably.

What Lage has failed for me is that, even with the meagre attacking tools available, he still seems to mismanage them week in week out, just chopping around as though drawing names and starting positions from a tombola, never establishing any structure between the midfield and attack that is going to create chances, subbing the best performing attacker far too often, ignoring Chiqinho even though he has always been bright and put in some really good crosses, etc.

 

[Mugwump]

But he didn't turn on "the players" collectively.

He aimed his fire at certain young players who aren't even regular members of the starting XI. We don't know that such comments weren't actually well received by the established players. I think Neves was making statements along the lines of if players don't fit in with our work ethic and culture, then they won't survive here.

He didnt, but its pretty widely accepted in the game its not the done thing regardless. You might get away with it if you are Sir Alex Ferguson or Brian Clough. You arent going to get away with it if you are Bruno Lage. He doesnt have the standing in the game.

I think Neves is right as well, but you just get them out of the club if they are an issue. You dont have to do things in public.

 

[wolfgar]

Whatever happens, I got the impression yesterday that quite a few players either know they are off, or that they absolutely want to be. If Lage and Sellars think Hwang is some big talent then I’m a little worried about backing them to oversee the big changes we’ll need in this squad. Its a big, big call.

I think the likes of Neves, Traore, Moutinho, Donk, Saiss and Boly will all be gone this summer. Perhaps even Coady, Semedo and Jimenez if we get bids. It’s quite a position we find ourselves in tbh. Part of the reason this summer has so much riding on it is 3 years of pretty bang average/**** recruitment, with repeated failures to buy a decent first team ready CM, CB or striker in that entire time. I’m not getting my hopes up too much of us suddenly springing into action and absolutely nailing this.

 

[marrs-guitar]

He didnt, but its pretty widely accepted in the game its not the done thing regardless. You might get away with it if you are Sir Alex Ferguson or Brian Clough. You arent going to get away with it if you are Bruno Lage. He doesnt have the standing in the game.

I think Neves is right as well, but you just get them out of the club if they are an issue. You dont have to do things in public.

Neither Lage nor Neves have the power to just get players out of the club though. No Wolves manager post McCarthy has had the power to decide alone to simply bin a player off.

It's all Shi and Sellars and they're doing their jobs by balance sheet, transfermarkt's potential future values and the machinations of agents. I think it's obvious after two transfer windows that Lage has no say at all in who comes or goes, he just has to swallow what's served up.

Against that backdrop, maybe it was thought a public barracking was the only way to get some players to either a) shape up or b) force the club to take action and move them out.

 

[inaglasshouse]

I'm unsure but it's clear the players don't want Europa football. As soon as 4th went so did they. Or is it just down to injuries to key players, and not full recoveries to returning players.
Very interesting what Fosun do this time, maybe they sack Bruno and Jeff or put the arm around and back them. The bottom line will be boosted by sales presumably so that may save Jeff.

 

[Mugwump]

Neither Lage nor Neves have the power to just get players out of the club though. No Wolves manager post McCarthy has had the power to decide alone to simply bin a player off.

It's all Shi and Sellars and they're doing their jobs by balance sheet, transfermarkt's potential future values and the machinations of agents. I think it's obvious after two transfer windows that Lage has no say at all in who comes or goes, he just has to swallow what's served up.

Against that backdrop, maybe it was thought a public barracking was the only way to get some players to either a) shape up or b) force the club to take action and move them out.

I'm sure if for example Hoever wasnt doing his job the way they wanted him to they just transfer list him and say he isnt in our plans going forward. Its back again to integrity for me. If Shi and Sellars are so controlling that a manager literally has no say then that manager needs to walk imo. The more i see the more i think Nuno wouldnt accept this kind of thing and thats why he went.

 

[marrs-guitar]

I'm sure if for example Hoever wasnt doing his job the way they wanted him to they just transfer list him and say he isnt in our plans going forward. Its back again to integrity for me. If Shi and Sellars are so controlling that a manager literally has no say then that manager needs to walk imo. The more i see the more i think Nuno wouldnt accept this kind of thing and thats why he went.

Honestly, this model is becoming more and more established and the trend isn't going to change, so I don't think head coach upon head coach will simply be walking from clubs because they have little to no input on transfers.

Only the real "big name" managers who clubs have to court to get through the door have the power to be able to dictate or at least have a big say in transfers. Even Conte who Spurs have bent over backward for isn't able to tell Levy to simply deliver him player X or I'm off. He plainly wanted Traore and several others and had to make do with options 4 or 5 in January.

Certainly Bruno Lage, with one club on his CV and 18 months' unemployment, isn't going to have the status to dictate terms to a PL club's management. Nothing has changed in the meantime on that front.

And that will very likely be the same for any future head coach Wolves are able to bring to the club in future, because we are never going to attract a "big name" here, when we can't even qualify for the Conference League.

The only likely change to that power balance would be if a head coach massively overachieved here, had better job offers on the table and could use that power play to rest more control from Fosun.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

I'm sure if for example Hoever wasnt doing his job the way they wanted him to they just transfer list him and say he isnt in our plans going forward. Its back again to integrity for me. If Shi and Sellars are so controlling that a manager literally has no say then that manager needs to walk imo. The more i see the more i think Nuno wouldnt accept this kind of thing and thats why he went.

Something happened behind the scenes with Nuno and only he and a few others will know what really happened

You don’t sign a 3 year deal then clear off the following summer over nothing. Sacked or not 100% more to it than the mutual consent bs

You’re probably right nuno wouldn’t of been accepting of these circumstances but didn’t he face similar situation at spurs??

Either way if we manage to lose our next 4 games serious question have to be asked of all parties. I’d like to think we’re just on the beach, but that kind of dire performance and talk of a bust up just adds fuel to the fire

 

[Mugwump]

Honestly, this model is becoming more and more established and the trend isn't going to change, so I don't think head coach upon head coach will simply be walking from clubs because they have little to no input on transfers.

Only the real "big name" managers who clubs have to court to get through the door have the power to be able to dictate or at least have a big say in transfers. Even Conte who Spurs have bent over backward for isn't able to tell Levy to simply deliver him player X or I'm off. He plainly wanted Traore and several others and had to make do with options 4 or 5 in January.

Certainly Bruno Lage, with one club on his CV and 18 months' unemployment, isn't going to have the status to dictate terms to a PL club's management. Nothing has changed in the meantime on that front.

And that will very likely be the same for any future head coach Wolves are able to bring to the club in future, because we are never going to attract a "big name" here, when we can't even qualify for the Conference League.

The only likely change to that power balance would be if a head coach massively overachieved here, had better job offers on the table and could use that power play to rest more control from Fosun.

I'm still not convinced too many managers/head coaches would accept no control at all. I dont think i've ever seen a person like Sellars in his DOF type role come out and say the club will never sign a player he doesnt like. The person you want running the team has to have input.

 

[hollo]

What we have working is not working sufficiently well. Guo needs to act.

 

[Mugwump]

Something happened behind the scenes with Nuno and only he and a few others will know what really happened

You don’t sign a 3 year deal then clear off the following summer over nothing. Sacked or not 100% more to it than the mutual consent bs

You’re probably right nuno wouldn’t of been accepting of these circumstances but didn’t he face similar situation at spurs??

Either way if we manage to lose our next 4 games serious question have to be asked of all parties. I’d like to think we’re just on the beach, but that kind of dire performance and talk of a bust up just adds fuel to the fire

Not sure at Spurs tbh. He walked into a lot of turmoil with Kane there. I said at the time he was stupid to go there. He stood no chance.

 

[old wittonian]

I'm still not convinced too many managers/head coaches would accept no control at all. I dont think i've ever seen a person like Sellars in his DOF type role come out and say the club will never sign a player he doesnt like. The person you want running the team has to have input.

I maybe wrong but didn't Sellars say both had to agree before a player was signed.

 

[TheConcourse]

Poor old Bruno getting a pasting.
A year after poor old Nuno getting a pasting.

Lets suppose you were a well respected financier and you are headhunted in June to help move a business forward.
You arrive with a good package and are looking forward to the future.
In January you are advised the Company was changing its car policy.
You had been happy with your Ferrari (Traore) but were told you were getting a Robin Reliant (Trincao) to replace it.
How would you feel?
They did it to Nuno and now doing it to Bruno.
Who the hell is Scott Sellars?
My view - ditch him first!

Worst. Analogy. Ever.

 

[Mugwump]

I maybe wrong but didn't Sellars say both had to agree before a player was signed.

The actual quote is

“It’s important that we all try and get to the same decision. I don’t want to sign players that he doesn’t want and I don’t ever want to sign players that he wants and I don’t want. It’s very much a team decision.”

I still find that bizarre that he said " I don’t ever want to sign players that he wants and I don’t want" . Sometimes you have to give the manager/head coach a player he wants for his style even if you dont agree i believe.

 

[CologneWolf]

A. Bruno stays, the club go balls out and back him whole heartedly.
B. Bruno goes, the club get another manager and back him whole heartedly
C. Bruno or another manager are tasked with managing a stale, unbalanced squad, littered with a few top drawer players in fairness, but with minimal investment.

Pretty much this is it in a nutshell.

I really can’t see B being the preferred option from Fosun. Loosening the purse strings for a new coach who they have yet to see manage their football team?(investment)

At least they know where they stand with Bruno. I said that I thought they told him back January they will spend in the summer. Hence his backflip in the press after Man Utd... But with the form over the last couple of months could they potentially be having a re-think?

If they don’t go all out, if I’m Bruno I’ll do my best patiently waiting for my pay out when the inevitable **** hits the fan. Or if the climate within is unbearable, leave my cash on the table and walk. He can hold his head high. Did what he could with another bloke’s team without one addition of his own to the squad. He’ll get a job somewhere else.

 

[JohnB]

Has to go.

No goals, no chances - creativity gone when Podence is out. We’d be in trouble without Sa (look at XGs).

I always felt we could nick a goal vs anyone with Nuno. I don’t now and could imagine no goal music again this season.

Didn’t want Nuno to go when he did, felt he could turn it around. I don’t feel Bruno can based on his less than coherent post-match interviews (not a language issue) which worries me what the dressing room is like.

Thanks Bruno - you gave us hope and overachieved for a lot of season despite going ultra defensive. Last 10 games have been poor and we need to arrest malaise.

Risk to change? Yes. Bigger risk to keep? Yes

Ship out now, select incoming.

 

[top fox wolf]

Has to go.

No goals, no chances - creativity gone when Podence is out. We’d be in trouble without Sa (look at XGs).

I always felt we could nick a goal vs anyone with Nuno. I don’t now and could imagine no goal music again this season.

Didn’t want Nuno to go when he did, felt he could turn it around. I don’t feel Bruno can based on his less than coherent post-match interviews (not a language issue) which worries me what the dressing room is like.

Thanks Bruno - you gave us hope and overachieved for a lot of season despite going ultra defensive. Last 10 games have been poor and we need to arrest malaise.

Risk to change? Yes. Bigger risk to keep? Yes

Ship out now, select incoming.

JUST BEEN TOLD HE'S GONE .

 

[moseleyite]

FWIW, I'm in the undecided camp as there are points for and against. Lack of team identity and shape, seemingly poor morale, lack of direction vs. stale squad, injuries and lack of opportunity to work with his own squad.

On the final point, Wolves are supposed to be running as a self-sufficient outfit so the concern is that if we allow Bruno to spend the money that is available and that doesn't work then any replacement probably won't have the same luxury and we'll be back at square one. That said... you could say the same for any manager - you let them spend and it either works or it doesn't. If it doesn't, the next manager doesn't have funds to spend.

My decisiveness is one of my defining character traits.

 

[CologneWolf]

To not even be able to score a goal (one game apart) whenever we concede first....that is unbelievable. I'm not sure what it says about the management but it is not good. Basically when we concede first we are not only almost guaranteed to lose - we will not even score a single goal.

Silver lining. It was the Villa game we did pull our thumbs out our ****

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

I’d rather be fickle than an Albion fan thanks very much!

Or you could be neither?

 

[hollo]

JUST BEEN TOLD HE'S GONE .

Good.

 

[hollo]

Are the bookmakers open?

 

[CologneWolf]

JUST BEEN TOLD HE'S GONE .

In the famous text of Fabrizio Romano

Here we go...

 

[hollo]

I'm unsure but it's clear the players don't want Europa football. As soon as 4th went so did they. Or is it just down to injuries to key players, and not full recoveries to returning players.
Very interesting what Fosun do this time, maybe they sack Bruno and Jeff or put the arm around and back them. The bottom line will be boosted by sales presumably so that may save Jeff.

The arsenal match was very telling. Maybe we need to sihn a leader but in the middle of the park.

 

[Titch]

JUST BEEN TOLD HE'S GONE .

Well that's that then, you've been spot on before

 

[The Wolf In The North]

Well, that got resolved quickly. Bloody hell.

 

[hollo]

In the famous text of Romano

Here we go...

10/1 so went down from 40/1

 

[Bawtry Wolf]

JUST BEEN TOLD HE'S GONE .

Wow - that’s decisive

 

[Bill McCai]

If the info is correct you can get 9/1 at Skybet - easy money.

 

[CologneWolf]

10/1 so went down from 40/1

I think @JOSWolf said it was 66/1 last night.