At this rate we’re DOOMED!

[Big Saft Kid]

I have criticised you in the past but it increasingly feels that way. We are close to, if not already in, a death spiral.

The way I feel now, if relegation meant we would be rid of FOSUN, I'd take it.

 

[Big Saft Kid]

If we had the extra 4 points we should have from var how would people be feeling about the season?

1 + 2 = 3

 

[Wolf316]

If we had the extra 4 points we should have from var how would people be feeling about the season?

How do you know Luton wouldn’t have scored if they didn’t get the Pen?

 

[theweave]

1 + 2 = 3

Oh yeah. How would you feel with 3 more?

 

[theweave]

How do you know Luton wouldn’t have scored if they didn’t get the Pen?

We don't but they didn't manage it the rest of the game

 

[Norway Wolves]

What worried me was the performance in the first 25 mins and that oneil said he was very surprised how bad the team were even after he had drilled his gameplan into them all week and set the team up accordingly. The guy has no presence or authority about him and i think the players couldn't care less about what he says.

That really is where I am. That first 25 minutes really was to a level I hoped we were not capable of. It was horrendous.

If as it seems possible we are going to throw in that kind of performance every now and again we won’t survive this season.

 

[Contrarian]

Our only hope is for the war in Ukraine to escalate to nuclear levels that wipe out most of Europe …including the UK.

That way, our Premier League status remains intact.

That's not how our luck works. If we were top of the table, 6 points clear with 2 matches to go, then it would be very likely. Or if we were in the FA Cup final, up against a League 1 team, I'd be very nervous about global politics, pandemics, alien invasion etc

 

[Aussie_Wolf]

Tough call

Call in the nukes , darvo. It's the only way

 

[SakosRightFoot]

How do you know Luton wouldn’t have scored if they didn’t get the Pen?

To be fair they didn’t create anything of note. We set up perfectly to force them wide and then defend crosses, but no one will admit that because it means giving credit to O’Neil. 1 shot from outside the box that hits the post in the first half, can’t remember them having a genuine chance rest of the game despite having an extra player.

 

[Contrarian]

To be fair they didn’t create anything of note. We set up perfectly to force them wide and then defend crosses, but no one will admit that because it means giving credit to O’Neil. 1 shot from outside the box that hits the post in the first half, can’t remember them having a genuine chance rest of the game despite having an extra player.

Some truth in that, if you stretch reality to breaking point. Never mind "genuine chances", we didn't even have a shot in the first half. We'd spend about 3 seconds in their penalty area *before* the sending off. Does he also deserve credit for setting us up to not have any possession inside their half? Because that's how most of the match played out.

If we were set up correctly, why did he change it around 20 minutes in when the match stopped for a while when Sa had a knock? He set us up wrong, that is the reality. We looked totally unprepared for how Luton were playing from the kick off. It's that sort of poor preparation that leads to players getting edgy, panicking, and making mistakes.

 

[oldgoldheart]

Am I genuinely missing something? Everton have the same points as us, Bournemouth haven’t won a game and are below us. How are they suddenly ok and we’re not? 2 proper refereeing decisions and we’re on 7 points and 10th with a new manager still bedding in new players.

Everton and bournemouth are playing better than us. Deny it all you want but its 3 from 4. We were second best against a workmanlike championship side yesterday

 

[Vtrpres]

Just watched the destruction of Sheffield U.
Well one team worse than us.
I bet you we don’t take more than 2 points out of them this season.

 

[Bossworld]

Our only hope is for the war in Ukraine to escalate to nuclear levels that wipe out most of Europe …including the UK.

That way, our Premier League status remains intact.

Last time people wished for something to prevent Liverpool winning the League title (assuming WW3 or similar), Covid happened.

Cause ≠ correlation etc.

 

[Oh When the Wolves]

What worried me was the performance in the first 25 mins and that oneil said he was very surprised how bad the team were even after he had drilled his gameplan into them all week and set the team up accordingly. The guy has no presence or authority about him and i think the players couldn't care less about what he says.

How can he be suprised when we set up at Everton exactly the same way with Neto on the right and looked completely awful then

He deserves a fair chance on one hand but on the other you can tell he is an absolute idiot

 

[Adrian_Monk]

Can see us getting 9 points off that lot.

The only way we're getting 9 points is bombing through the speed cameras on the M6 at 120mph.

I'll be astonished if we get 5 and pleased if we get 4. That's how low we've sunken to.

 

[WickedWolfie]

Just watched the destruction of Sheffield U.
Well one team worse than us.
I bet you we don’t take more than 2 points out of them this season.

I have a horrible vision of Pep saying "Trashing? Hold my beer....."

 

[SakosRightFoot]

Some truth in that, if you stretch reality to breaking point. Never mind "genuine chances", we didn't even have a shot in the first half. We'd spend about 3 seconds in their penalty area *before* the sending off. Does he also deserve credit for setting us up to not have any possession inside their half? Because that's how most of the match played out.

If we were set up correctly, why did he change it around 20 minutes in when the match stopped for a while when Sa had a knock? He set us up wrong, that is the reality. We looked totally unprepared for how Luton were playing from the kick off. It's that sort of poor preparation that leads to players getting edgy, panicking, and making mistakes.

Didn’t say we were good or set up right at the start. Just pointing out for all those who think he’s a complete idiot, by your own admission he clearly identified he’d got it wrong, changed it, then the sending off happens just as we’re growing into the game and he makes a double change at half time which sees us take the lead. But for an awful decision to give a pen did Sa make a meaningful save?

Lopetegui regularly used to get it massively wrong in his early games and was always making double subs at half time. The guys been here 2 months he’s trying to work out what our players can do and can’t, ultimately it may prove he’s not up to it, but you’ve got to give him some slack for the situation he was dropped in to

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

On the plus side the season ticket refund when they acknowledge that they've accidentally charged Champions' League contender prices for relegation battle football, will come in handy for Christmas.

 

[surreywolf]

So, after 6 league games we’ve amassed a total of 4 pts, if this form carries on for the rest of the season we’ll be lucky to end up with 27 points or thereabouts?

We’re doomed, doomed I tell ya!

The happy clappers will soon stop clapping is my guess unless they are totally deluded, which is fine, their choice!

The Fosun project, if there was ever one in the first place has totally hit the buffers, still, bragging rights over our nearest and dearest will resume next season!

Or 7pts if officials were fair to us

 

[Contrarian]

Didn’t say we were good or set up right at the start. Just pointing out for all those who think he’s a complete idiot, by your own admission he clearly identified he’d got it wrong, changed it, then the sending off happens just as we’re growing into the game and he makes a double change at half time which sees us take the lead. But for an awful decision to give a pen did Sa make a meaningful save?

Lopetegui regularly used to get it massively wrong in his early games and was always making double subs at half time. The guys been here 2 months he’s trying to work out what our players can do and can’t, ultimately it may prove he’s not up to it, but you’ve got to give him some slack for the situation he was dropped in to

Fair points, the games against Villa and Bournemouth will tell us more about where we're heading.

The problem with the Luton match is that they are one of the least equipped sides to get into this league in recent seasons.

I like to keep an eye on the competition and have watched them a couple of times, during which they looked exactly like the Championship team out of their depth, agricultural and hanging on grimly, trying to snatch something from upfield hoofs. I don't know why those roles were reversed yesterday - but they were. We looked like the inferior side hanging on grimly - even from the start.

I will accept that against any 18 teams in this league, we have no right to expect anything. But given the difference in resources, Luton are the one team we should look distinctly better than (arguably Sheff U too.). It was an appalling, disjointed horror show of a performance. Against a team far weaker than any that Lopetegui was up against against.

 

[SakosRightFoot]

Fair points, the games against Villa and Bournemouth will tell us more about where we're heading.

The problem with the Luton match is that they are one of the least equipped sides to get into this league in recent seasons.

I like to keep an eye on the competition and have watched them a couple of times, during which they looked exactly like the Championship team out of their depth, agricultural and hanging on grimly, trying to snatch something from upfield hoofs. I don't know why those roles were reversed yesterday - but they were. We looked like the inferior side hanging on grimly - even from the start.

I will accept that against any 18 teams in this league, we have no right to expect anything. But given the difference in resources, Luton are the one team we should look distinctly better than (arguably Sheff U too.). It was an appalling, disjointed horror show of a performance. Against a team far weaker than any that Lopetegui was up against against.

This is the crux though, your premise suggests a PL team should always beat a good championship one, history and the cups shows that’s not the case. Across 38 games that good championship side will struggle, but on a singular occasion they are capable of producing more than the sum of their parts. Luton are well organised and coached and exploited the same weaknesses Liverpool did. I would agree with anyone who says we got the starting line up wrong. But that doesn’t mean GON is a terrible coach as I evidenced Lopetegui often got starting line ups wrong in his early days, it even took Nuno a few months to work out Batth and Miranda weren’t his best central defenders.

 

[Bill McCai]

Lop got 10 points from his first 6 PL games - P6 W3 D1 L2. We currently have 4 from 6 - P6 W1 D1 L4.

 

[Bryce]

Lop was beaten by Leeds and Leicester. Easily brushed aside by City and united. Thrashed by arsenal and Brighton. Done by Forest in the cup when a semi final beckoned.?
Hardly the messiah . His copy book is well blotted for me and left us in a difficult place. It’s that reason I want GON to succeed . Just to **** him off

 

[Rugrats]

We’re not doomed because the Fosun strategy this season is there are 3 worse sides than us! And they’re right

(Btw The adverts on here are really ****ing me off now!)

 

[Perton Wolf]

Lop was beaten by Leeds and Leicester. Easily brushed aside by City and united. Thrashed by arsenal and Brighton. Done by Forest in the cup when a semi final beckoned.?
Hardly the messiah . His copy book is well blotted for me and left us in a difficult place. It’s that reason I want GON to succeed . Just to **** him off

Fair play, you forgot the part where we beat Chelsea, Villa, Palace, Liverpool, Spurs and West Ham.

More than this fraud O'Neill will manage.

 

[VancouverWolf]

The way I feel now, if relegation meant we would be rid of FOSUN, I'd take it.

You want Fosun gone?…….ok, fair enough but think for a moment.
Are you really sure and confident ?
……………………………………………

Under Fosun we came 1st. in the Championship…..

Then we came 7th. in the Pl.

Again we came 7th. in the Pl.

Then we dropped to 13th. in a Covid year.

A move back up to 10th. …….in the world’s toughest league.

And last season finished at 13th……

And a F.A. Cup semi…..

and a Europa quarter final.

You and others want Fosun gone….ok, fine. But do you think new owners will be as SAFE and as STABLE as we have it over the last 6 years? ( no, it’s not perfect).
The lowest we’ve finished in 5 years is 13th. ………very respectful………not too shabby at all.

Would new owners be better?

 

[VancouverWolf]

Fair play, you forgot the part where we beat Chelsea, Villa, Palace, Liverpool, Spurs and West Ham.

More than this fraud O'Neill will manage.

He’s not a fraud, ( he a PL coach ), and it’s not his fault that he was hired to do a job.
Whether he succeeds is another matter.

 

[Wisdomwolf]

The way I feel now, if relegation meant we would be rid of FOSUN, I'd take it.

Just to let you know all American owners will want a larger slice of flesh. Don’t kid yourself the answer lies in the magic money tree. Unless you’re the top six it doesn’t exist. The likes of Villa, Newcastle, Brighton etc will do well for a couple of years but just watch as the P&S spending constraints kick in. It doesn’t mean Fosun are fabulous, far from it but there is a cautionary note ahead for football. And even for the big six there’s a limit to monetising the game.

 

[WickedWolfie]

You want Fosun gone?…….ok, fair enough but think for a moment.
Are you really sure and confident ?
……………………………………………

Under Fosun we came 1st. in the Championship…..

Then we came 7th. in the Pl.

Again we came 7th. in the Pl.

Then we dropped to 13th. in a Covid year.

A move back up to 10th. …….in the world’s toughest league.

And last season finished at 13th……

And a F.A. Cup semi…..

and a Europa quarter final.

You and others want Fosun gone….ok, fine. But do you think new owners will be as SAFE and as STABLE as we have it over the last 6 years? ( no, it’s not perfect).
The lowest we’ve finished in 5 years is 13th. ………very respectful………not too shabby at all.

Would new owners be better?

All true. I bet though that we are way below 13th this year. You also neglect to mention the downwards trend since Nuno was booted.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

You want Fosun gone?…….ok, fair enough but think for a moment.
Are you really sure and confident ?
……………………………………………

Under Fosun we came 1st. in the Championship…..

Then we came 7th. in the Pl.

Again we came 7th. in the Pl.

Then we dropped to 13th. in a Covid year.

A move back up to 10th. …….in the world’s toughest league.

And last season finished at 13th……

And a F.A. Cup semi…..

and a Europa quarter final.

You and others want Fosun gone….ok, fine. But do you think new owners will be as SAFE and as STABLE as we have it over the last 6 years? ( no, it’s not perfect).
The lowest we’ve finished in 5 years is 13th. ………very respectful………not too shabby at all.

Would new owners be better?

What you seem to refuse to grasp is that most people (certainly me) lauded Fosun for the first 5 years, because they were good owners. They invested and we improved.

I also said in January there was plenty of room for belief and positivity, the project was back on.

The project is not now on, the whole landscape has changed. Taking cash out of the club and making a terrible managerial appointment. Therefore I think we'd be better off if they sold us. Of course, given that they will just want to maximise revenue the new owners could be worse, I mean bloody hell we could be getting 777, so it's not a no risk strategy.

 

[Bankswolf The Third]

You want Fosun gone?…….ok, fair enough but think for a moment.
Are you really sure and confident ?
……………………………………………

Under Fosun we came 1st. in the Championship…..

Then we came 7th. in the Pl.

Again we came 7th. in the Pl.

Then we dropped to 13th. in a Covid year.

A move back up to 10th. …….in the world’s toughest league.

And last season finished at 13th……

And a F.A. Cup semi…..

and a Europa quarter final.

You and others want Fosun gone….ok, fine. But do you think new owners will be as SAFE and as STABLE as we have it over the last 6 years? ( no, it’s not perfect).
The lowest we’ve finished in 5 years is 13th. ………very respectful………not too shabby at all.

Would new owners be better?

This type of thinking is why we will never progress as a club

 

[Contrarian]

This type of thinking is why we will never progress as a club

Some are in denial and still haven't realised that the halcyon days of 2018-2020 have gone. I think in general that is one of the reason decline sets in. People get stuck in the past, complacency sets in, can't accept that those days are over and the world has long moved on. Meanwhile, elsewhere, others have new energy and are racing past.

 

[Contrarian]

This is the crux though, your premise suggests a PL team should always beat a good championship one,

Where did I say that? I actually said quite the opposite - that we have no right to beat anyone in this league. I made an exception for Luton as being the one team we really should be out performing, because of the huge amount of money our squad cost compared to theirs. It's not like Luton are brimming with bargain gems coveted by the big clubs (which does happen sometimes). They are workmanlike and nothing more. And we struggled painfully to match that.

history and the cups shows that’s not the case. Across 38 games that good championship side will struggle, but on a singular occasion they are capable of producing more than the sum of their parts. Luton are well organised and coached and exploited the same weaknesses Liverpool did. I would agree with anyone who says we got the starting line up wrong. But that doesn’t mean GON is a terrible coach

So beating Man City won't mean he's a brilliant coach? You can't have it both ways. Because the same argument could apply to us "a singular occasion where we produced more than the sum of the parts". And Man City miraculously missing half a dozen easy chances - which they do do, once or twice a season!

I eagerly await us being "well organised and exploiting weaknesses" under O'Neill but there's little sign so far. Perhaps Lutons manager is better than ours?

 

[Tarcisio Mifsud]

I would not say we are doomed, but surely we are a relegation mix side. This because there are worse sides than us at present, although some of them may still improve and go over our heads, as we are rather weak. Cannot understand what is happening with our squad players. Where have the Girona man gone? Why is Sasa not being introduced as a substitute at least? Where is Conzales that young chap we were told he may be another Inciso?

 

[Werewolf of Wombourne]

So, after 6 league games we’ve amassed a total of 4 pts, if this form carries on for the rest of the season we’ll be lucky to end up with 27 points or thereabouts?

We’re doomed, doomed I tell ya!

The happy clappers will soon stop clapping is my guess unless they are totally deluded, which is fine, their choice!

The Fosun project, if there was ever one in the first place has totally hit the buffers, still, bragging rights over our nearest and dearest will resume next season!

By your logic though we’ll be fine because Luton, Sheff Utd and Burnley will be relegated on 8 points each

 

[binners]

So much depression on here at the moment has left me wondering after City have gone home on Saturday how many mixers will be found floating in the Birmingham canal on Sunday morning

 

[Big Saft Kid]

By your logic though we’ll be fine because Luton, Sheff Utd and Burnley will be relegated on 8 points each

Exactly. You can't extrapolate a whole season based on 6 matches, it's too small a sample. After 12 games you probably can, after 19 you definitely can, but even then there can be big changes. Last season at Christmas we had 10 points after 15 games and were bottom of the table. By any standards, that's odds-on relegation. I think up to that point only two teams in PL history had been bottom at Christmas and escaped the drop. But we ended the season comfortably safe on 41 points. Mind you, that was only because we recruited an elite coach. Who is going the make the difference this time?

 

[WickedWolfie]

Exactly. You can't extrapolate a whole season based on 6 matches, it's too small a sample. After 12 games you probably can, after 19 you definitely can, but even then there can be big changes. Last season we had 10 points after 15 games and were bottom of gthe table. By any standards, that's odds-on relegation. But we ended the season comfortably safe on 41 points.

We brought in a very good manager and spent serious money to achieve that though. Neither of those look particularly likely this time (not to mention the World Cup break last season).

 

[oldgoldheart]

Fair points, the games against Villa and Bournemouth will tell us more about where we're heading.

The problem with the Luton match is that they are one of the least equipped sides to get into this league in recent seasons.

I like to keep an eye on the competition and have watched them a couple of times, during which they looked exactly like the Championship team out of their depth, agricultural and hanging on grimly, trying to snatch something from upfield hoofs. I don't know why those roles were reversed yesterday - but they were. We looked like the inferior side hanging on grimly - even from the start.

I will accept that against any 18 teams in this league, we have no right to expect anything. But given the difference in resources, Luton are the one team we should look distinctly better than (arguably Sheff U too.). It was an appalling, disjointed horror show of a performance. Against a team far weaker than any that Lopetegui was up against against.

we were so inferior on the day it was like they were the "established" team. they beat us to most balls and had a decent plan. literally from moment one to us hanging on at the end. we had about 15 mins at the start of the second half where we had parity. i expected us to dominate possession and struggle to score but in all honesty they had more possession and struggled to score. we were pinned back all game.

and they are the supposedly worst team in the league.....

 

[oldgoldheart]

Exactly. You can't extrapolate a whole season based on 6 matches, it's too small a sample. After 12 games you probably can, after 19 you definitely can, but even then there can be big changes. Last season at Christmas we had 10 points after 15 games and were bottom of the table. By any standards, that's odds-on relegation. I think up to that point only two teams in PL history had been bottom at Christmas and escaped the drop. But we ended the season comfortably safe on 41 points. Mind you, that was only because we recruited an elite coach. Who is going the make the difference this time?

only because we changed the manager. if we stick with GON we will be GONE