Are we a big club? Solved?

[TheRetroChief]

This debate often crops up. Now being an example, with Afobe moving to Bournemouth. People always site history, crowds, honours etc.

Well, how about this? I was just looking at the premier league history when I was talking about Villa to a colleague and the worst ever premier league score cropped up. Checking when that was, i unearthed a couple of things. There are one or two unwanted records that Wolves have, but also an all-time history of the Premier League table.

Could this be a fair reflection of where we stand as a club? Not saying it is....just throwing it out there.

Many current players who have only been around as long as the Premier League may interpret the size of a club much aligned to this list I reckon.

Have a look for yourselves... table is towards the bottom.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premier_League_records_and_statistics

 

[Tony]

The glory days are getting ever more distant. It's sad reading that table and the truth hurts!

 

[Sedgley Gold N Black]

No, it isn't, well unless you work for Sky Sports.

Try these 4, all different criteria yet similar outcomes.

http://www.myfootballfacts.com/All-TimeTopFlightPointsTable1888-89to2010-11.html

http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/all-time-table

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_football_clubs_in_England_by_competitive_honours_won

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_English_football_champions

http://www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/attn.htm

 

[TheRetroChief]

No, it isn't, well unless you work for Sky Sports.

Try these 4, all different criteria yet similar outcomes.

http://www.myfootballfacts.com/All-TimeTopFlightPointsTable1888-89to2010-11.html

http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/all-time-table

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_football_clubs_in_England_by_competitive_honours_won

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_English_football_champions

http://www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/attn.htm

My point is, from the perspective of the current footballer and potential employee of Wolverhampton Wanderers. Not from a fan.

 

[Dan G WWFC]

Who cares if we are big or not, who care's about the "Size" of the club. It's all about the here and now, where we are going to finish in the table this season. I don't care if we are "Bigger" then a team if they beat us and finsh higher then us, get promoted then buy our best player.

 

[TheRetroChief]

Who cares if we are big or not, who care's about the "Size" of the club. It's all about the here and now, where we are going to finish in the table this season. I don't care if we are "Bigger" then a team if they beat us and finsh higher then us, get promoted then buy our best player.

Totally agree, but the discussion keeps getting had!
We have very little pull these days for players. We should not be surprised that they are happy, neigh eager to move on. And now it seems that we are not even "good" payers (by football mercenary standards at least), so are rapidly on the downward slope to obscurity it would appear.

 

[Deleted member 4023]

Not so much a big club these days - but still a cash cow for some

 

[Sedgley Gold N Black]

My point is, from the perspective of the current footballer and potential employee of Wolverhampton Wanderers. Not from a fan.

I don't know either a footballer or a manager but as they work in football and have probably spent a large part of their lives in the game, you'd expect them to have some knowledge about the past.

It's not some kid in Asia looking for a Christmas present, who's just gained an interest in football and wants a kit.

 

[TheRetroChief]

I don't know either a footballer or a manager but as they work in football and have probably spent a large part of their lives in the game, you'd expect them to have some knowledge about the past.

It's not some kid in Asia looking for a Christmas present, who's just gained an interest in football and wants a kit.

Isn't that exactly what the Premier League management and pre-season tours, TV deals etc. are all about??

 

[Sedgley Gold N Black]

Who cares if we are big or not, who care's about the "Size" of the club. It's all about the here and now, where we are going to finish in the table this season. I don't care if we are "Bigger" then a team if they beat us and finsh higher then us, get promoted then buy our best player.

That's a poor way to look at the argument though.

If you had the choice of two branded t shirts, one was a much more famous brand and cost you marginally more, most people would probably go for the more famous brand.

If we were in a similar league position as Bournemouth, offering similar money (maybe even marginally less), who'd you think Afobe would pick? How do you think we managed to sign him in the first place? We certainly weren't the highest placed club after him and almost certainly didn't offer him the highest wage.

 

[Hrothgar]

Not this old chestnut again!
The only way size matters in football clubs is the size of their bank balance.
We are however without doubt a great club and that's good enough for me.

 

[Mr Sizzle]

That table makes very depressing reading. 4 years in the top division of English football in 24 years is abysmal for a club of our stature. When you throw in 2 relegations, one of the lowest AV points total and a highest position of 15 it gets worse. Given all other supposed large teams have been more successful in the same period, it just goes to show in my mind that Wolves have had many years of mismanagement, although a certain Mr Moxey has been a constant for 15 of these years.

You can draw own conclusions but it's safe to say we have wasted a glorious opportunity to capitalise on our illustrious golden history. Every year that passes makes that history more and more irrelevant. Only Sheffield United in my view have performed as woeful as us and could feel equally aggrieved.

 

[Big Nosed Wolf]

The club is big enough to be a consistent competitor in the top league.

That it has spent just four seasons in the 'new' set up is a disgrace.

It doesn't matter if it never won another top class honour. The football on offer should be good enough to grace the top league and should be reasonably comfortable in the top half - season in season out.

That it is seen increasingly as a 'small' club is down to those charged with its well being - not that it is 'not big enough'

 

[Sheriff Woody]

I think it's blatantly obvious that most footballers don't care about stature of club or trophies. It's all about their wage packet.

 

[Dan G WWFC]

That's a poor way to look at the argument though.

If you had the choice of two branded t shirts, one was a much more famous brand and cost you marginally more, most people would probably go for the more famous brand.

If we were in a similar league position as Bournemouth, offering similar money (maybe even marginally less), who'd you think Afobe would pick? How do you think we managed to sign him in the first place? We certainly weren't the highest placed club after him and almost certainly didn't offer him the highest wage.

But that's not me though, I don't give two hoot's about brands etc

I can understand the want for players to play for teams in a bigger and fancy stadium or has a better training ground, but this intangible, un-measurable thing called "size", why would you care. It just looks like a dick measuring contest to me

 

[maws]

Bit more dick waving

 

[Woburn Wolf]

I don't know either a footballer or a manager but as they work in football and have probably spent a large part of their lives in the game, you'd expect them to have some knowledge about the past.

It's not some kid in Asia looking for a Christmas present, who's just gained an interest in football and wants a kit.

Most players these days are primarily interested in money and quite a lot of managers were not even born when we were in our heyday.

 

[Moaney Moar Wolves]

Not this old chestnut again!
The only way size matters in football clubs is the size of their bank balance.
We are however without doubt a great club and that's good enough for me.

You are right, we are a great club, with a rich history. We were there when it all started and I have been proud to support them like my Grandad and my Dad did. I don't get to many matches as I live across the water but, I don't know why, they are just in my heart as I know how much they meant to my family. Ridiculous really but there it is.

 

[DasWolf]

I think if any other club did this, a lot of people here would be mocking them for living in the past and holding on to past glories.

Portsmouth are above us on that list, but look at them now.

 

[Jonzy54]

I read a very interesting article a couple of years ago.It compiled a league table back to when League football began .It had a system to take into account 2 or 3 points for a win,divisions you played in,games won,total points won,trophies won ,crowd figures and the percentage of gates compared to ground capacity and made a comparison measured against the town or city you played in.
Not totally scientific but it measured and judged everyone equally.
I can't remember the table but we were in the top ten easily and to that end it shows the Johnny come latelys that football did not begin in 1992 and being a big club is not measured in how many oil wells you have or how many super yachts you have berthed in the Marina at Monaco.

 

[Mr Sizzle]

I read a very interesting article a couple of years ago.It compiled a league table back to when League football began .It had a system to take into account 2 or 3 points for a win,divisions you played in,games won,total points won,trophies won ,crowd figures and the percentage of gates compared to ground capacity and made a comparison measured against the town or city you played in.
Not totally scientific but it measured and judged everyone equally.
I can't remember the table but we were in the top ten easily and to that end it shows the Johnny come latelys that football did not begin in 1992 and being a big club is not measured in how many oil wells you have or how many super yachts you have berthed I'm the Marina at Monaco.

Agree with this and by this means, of course we are historically a big club with great traditions and still a large fan base both in UK and abroad. Unfortunately our history over the last 25 years has been as bad as any of the larger clubs and only scraping inside the Top 40. For a club like Wolves, that simply isn't acceptable and as I said earlier, points at serious mismanagement.

 

[albell]

I read a very interesting article a couple of years ago.It compiled a league table back to when League football began .It had a system to take into account 2 or 3 points for a win,divisions you played in,games won,total points won,trophies won ,crowd figures and the percentage of gates compared to ground capacity and made a comparison measured against the town or city you played in.
Not totally scientific but it measured and judged everyone equally.
I can't remember the table but we were in the top ten easily and to that end it shows the Johnny come latelys that football did not begin in 1992 and being a big club is not measured in how many oil wells you have or how many super yachts you have berthed I'm the Marina at Monaco.

Well said Jonzy. Premier League records annoy the hell out of me. Football did not begin with the invention of the Premier League.

 

[WolvesAreBoringOnCeefax]

Wolves are a massive club but that's largely irrelevant. The size of your team at that moment in time is the be all. If Wycombe were in the Premiership they'd sign our players. History means jack $$$$ it's all about the future when it comes to transfers and what not

Sent from my HTC Desire 620 using Tapatalk

 

[Dudleywolf]

This debate often crops up. Now being an example, with Afobe moving to Bournemouth. People always site history, crowds, honours etc.

Well, how about this? I was just looking at the premier league history when I was talking about Villa to a colleague and the worst ever premier league score cropped up. Checking when that was, i unearthed a couple of things. There are one or two unwanted records that Wolves have, but also an all-time history of the Premier League table.

Could this be a fair reflection of where we stand as a club? Not saying it is....just throwing it out there.

Many current players who have only been around as long as the Premier League may interpret the size of a club much aligned to this list I reckon.

Have a look for yourselves... table is towards the bottom.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premier_League_records_and_statistics

oh yes ! football commenced in 1993 ? sorry the two league cups, European final, 5 fac semis, that I have witnessed ,never happened ??

 

[TheRetroChief]

oh yes ! football commenced in 1993 ? sorry the two league cups, European final, 5 fac semis, that I have witnessed ,never happened ??

What present footballer who isn't also a wolves fan will know that? That's what I'm saying. We are not a 'big' club to play for any more, and no longer an easy touch when it comes to pay packets. What is our big pull now?

 

[Polish Wolf]

We can still be called a relatively big club but we're on a slide down and have to change fortunes quickly to avoid becoming a new Huddersfield. They won the league three times in a row, you know. Time is working against us and as much as in the 1990's the memories of the fairly successful 70's and even those of the golden 50's were quite fresh, now they are becoming distant in the past. A few relegation battles in the Premier League did not help too much.

 

[Deleted member 4309]

When ever watching us on sky they always call us the sleeping giant. Anyone with half a brain and football knowledge knows we are a massive club with massive potential. That first year in the prem you couldn't get a ticket

 

[Gornal]

When ever watching us on sky they always call us the sleeping giant. Anyone with half a brain and football knowledge knows we are a massive club with massive potential. That first year in the prem you couldn't get a ticket

You can't get a ticket to Bournemouth this season so surely using your logic that makes them a massive club with massive potential?

 

[Deleted member 4309]

You can't get a ticket to Bournemouth this season so surely using your logic that makes them a massive club with massive potential?

I think you have spent to much time in Gornal with all the baggie fans. 11k they sell out we had nearly 3ok big difference

 

[morosewolf]

By every conceivable metric possible bar 2 we are a bigger club than Bournemouth. However to a player they have the two that really count over us - League they play in and Wage Bill.

 

[Deleted member 4309]

By every conceivable metric possible bar 2 we are a bigger club than Bournemouth. However to a player they have the two that really count over us - League they play in and Wage Bill.

They might go down yet and do a blackpool. They are spending way to much in players and wages if the afobe rumors are true. They were doing really well with the players they had and then spend nearly 20 million. I hope it backfires.

 

[morosewolf]

And if they do, then they lose at least one of those things, but they will be replaced by Hull, Brighton or whoever takes their place. The point I was making is that with all the money in the PL things like our history, stadium, fan base etc are an irrevelance to any player who can go to a club in it while we are not. Competing for players against teams in the same league as us then all these metrics do come into play as long as the salary side of things is there or thereabouts.

 

[Deleted member 4309]

I'm not on about history, league, wages. We are a big club with a big following. I read something the other day about big teams and we were in there along with villa, Sheff Wednesday, Derby, Leeds and others it was a great read. I know players won't come to us because of the league we are in but for people to presume we are not a big club anymore is wrong

 

[morosewolf]

In the last 30 years we have spent more seasons in League 1&2 than we have the Prem. Of course we are a big club by the traditional way of looking at things. The way I judge it we are bigger than Southampton, Norwich, Albion, Palace, Stoke etc but to someone out of the area and in their 20's ie a potential player I doubt we are to them

 

[Deleted member 4309]

Also Wolverhampton isn't the nicest of places to live. I know we have beautiful surroundings but near molineux is horrendous. I don't blame afobe for moving to a lovely part of the country on good wages it just hurts because Bournemouth really is a tin pot club.

 

[Essex Wolf]

I'm not on about history, league, wages. We are a big club with a big following. I read something the other day about big teams and we were in there along with villa, Sheff Wednesday, Derby, Leeds and others it was a great read. I know players won't come to us because of the league we are in but for people to presume we are not a big club anymore is wrong

This.