Wolves Finances

[Tomasz]

Where is the money we sold Jarvis and fletcher for? What about parachute payments? Why does it appear we have to sell before we buy even with this funds and all the parachute payments!

The money has gone on Sako, Siggy, Doumbia, etc etc and the wages of all the squad. The money is in the team, it's not hiding in some offshore bank account like the conspiracy theorists would like to tell you.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

The money has gone on Sako, Siggy, Doumbia, etc etc and the wages of all the squad. The money is in the team, it's not hiding in some offshore bank account like the conspiracy theorists would like to tell you.

I'm not really a conspiracy theorist BUT these are facts (open to correction)

We made a profit for 3 years in the Prem (around £17M in total)
Some of this will have balanced to books for previous losses.
Last year our wage bill was £25M
Last year our income was around £25M (not including transfers, including £16M parachute)
Last year we sold players for total around £25M (although Jez is mysterious about the actual total as always and this money will be coming in in slices)
It seems likely that the £30M Morgan 'invested' has been used on the academy, Stan Cullis, Tarmac building etc.

To me that doesn't seem to really add up.

 

[Englishwolfinwales]

Well no - as it's 5% of revenue not profit. Profit was £48M, so I'd guess a much higher %.

I didn't start this conversation to suggest that this was his motivation though - I just wanted to clarify a point!

and it would be over at least two financial years so you can halve those figures

 

[Perton Wolf]

Our owner really needs to invest his OWN money now, when we need it, as he promised. In my opinion he hasn't invested a penny of his own money, just money from the huge financial benefits of being in the Premiership.....afterall, we didn't spend a lot.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

You're assuming they've all been sold though, which in the current market and at the prices asked would be some going.

Not sure how I've got into this argument, but the point is - if it is correct that Redrow have £22M of houses the land price for that must be at least the £6M which may be a small part of Redrow's turnover, but would cover the supposed investment in the academy. If anyone who knows wants to correct me then feel free, but the points about the fraction of Redrows profit and whether they have sold the houses are irrelevant. Effectively Wolves sold land to Redrow. One company is fully owned by Steve Morgan and the other is 30% owned as far as I know. There must have been a fee?

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

and it would be over at least two financial years so you can halve those figures

See my other post - £6M is £6M, it doesn't matter how many financial years it is spread over.

 

[bod101]

also I understand the team and the buildings/real estate have been split into separate companies as well

 

[Tomasz]

Not sure how I've got into this argument, but the point is - if it is correct that Redrow have £22M of houses the land price for that must be at least the £6M which may be a small part of Redrow's turnover, but would cover the supposed investment in the academy. If anyone who knows wants to correct me then feel free, but the points about the fraction of Redrows profit and whether they have sold the houses are irrelevant. Effectively Wolves sold land to Redrow. One company is fully owned by Steve Morgan and the other is 30% owned as far as I know. There must have been a fee?

What are you on about?! The land was owned by Wolverhampton University!

 

[Tomasz]

I'm not really a conspiracy theorist BUT these are facts (open to correction)

We made a profit for 3 years in the Prem (around £17M in total)

Much higher, nearly £40m I believe, all spent on the new stand.

Some of this will have balanced to books for previous losses.
Last year our wage bill was £25M
Last year our income was around £25M (not including transfers, including £16M parachute)
Last year we sold players for total around £25M (although Jez is mysterious about the actual total as always and this money will be coming in in slices)

We don't know, figures for last season haven't been published. Figures for 2011 are publicly available I believe.

It seems likely that the £30M Morgan 'invested' has been used on the academy, Stan Cullis, Tarmac building etc.

To me that doesn't seem to really add up.

We don't know any of the facts until the accounts are published, until then everything is hearsay, but I've no reason to believe they'll show millions of pounds ending up anywhere but in the pockets of players and agents.

 

[Jonzy54]

If by some miracle the youngsters get us promotion next year and following the addition of some older heads we manage to go up again would Morgan splash the cash to survive?
If he didn't and just took the PL money the downward spiral would continue yet again.
I just wonder what the powers that be are trying to achieve now.At every level you have to spend to give you a viable chance of going up.
We are at the acorn level of development but the same rules apply,unfortunately they don't seem to understand it.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

Are you saying the Stan Cullis cost £40M - I think it is widely quoted as around £16M - surely not even Wolves could spend £40M building one stand (which was supposed to be timed to coincide with a slump that would make materials cheaper!)

The wage bill is also widely reported to have been £25M last season. We could wait for the accounts, but by the time the results are audited the argument has become irrelevant. e.g. we could argue about whether we should have signed players to avoid relegation in 2011 since we were making a profit - but that's hardly relevant now!

Also as Bod says there are so many parts to Wolves even after the accounts are out it is impossible to really know what's happening.

In terms of salaries this article shows that the E&S are just guessing.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/wolverhampton-wanderers/9908838/Wolverhampton-Wanderers-facing-financial-nightmare-if-they-are-relegated-to-League-One-from-Championship.html

 

[Jonzy54]

I wonder if the accounts actually show 'loans' for some of the Capital projects the club has carried out.SM owns it lock stock and barrel so any losses are subsumed by the parent company.I just wonder come the day he sells,whether we shall hear that monies have to be paid back?The fact that different arms of the Bridgmere Group own different aspects of the club and its infrastructure makes me think there is a high degree of smoke and mirrors pervading down Waterloo Road.

 

[TeddyWolf]

a) How is that relevant?
b) 2012 revenue £479M. Houses at Compton (55 if it is that number) @400,000 = £22M =5% of turnover. Not inconsiderable and 1000 times more than you suggest. Good profit as no land costs.

However I was only asking for clarification and I'm neither a builder nor an accountant.

Just to make the point that I think the university got something for the land, enabling investment in the new science park. Redrow also contributed £2.5m towards the new school.

The costs of the replacement school cannot be met without ‘enabling’
development, i.e. the new school will only be made possible by the
sale of this site for housing. The 55 four-and-five bedroom houses
proposed by Redrow Homes on the remainder of the University site
are the minimum necessary to generate the almost £2.5m required.

http://comptonparkdevelopment.co.uk/wt/compton_park/press_releases/compton_park_presentation_materials_from_latest_press_consultation_meeting
board 6.

 

[WalsallWolf]

The £30m aside, has Morgan ever said he would invest his own wealth into the club?

I will never forget however when SJH made a plea for someone to come forward and take control over the club, for about the 87th time. He stated he wanted someone to come forward and not pay money to him but put money into the club and strengthen there investment. Irrespective of what has happened on the pitch, Morgan has done this.

 

[mikic]

We've been told we're not in debt, so what does the actual bank balance state ?

Recall being told continually by Moxey this time last year, that we didn't need to sell Fletcher or Jarvis, a 4,000 drop in last years gates is easily compensated by the sale of Jarvis alone.

Technically we are in debt because one of Morgans other businesses lent the cash for the SC redevelopment via a non interest bearing loan.

Make no mistake this loan will need to be paid off before he sells up

 

[mikic]

The £30m aside, has Morgan ever said he would invest his own wealth into the club?

I will never forget however when SJH made a plea for someone to come forward and take control over the club, for about the 87th time. He stated he wanted someone to come forward and not pay money to him but put money into the club and strengthen there investment. Irrespective of what has happened on the pitch, Morgan has done this.

AS far as I am aware, he paid £30m directly into the club, and then loaned the club c£30m for the stand redevelopment.

Other than that the club has been on it's own. He isn't investing a "personal fortune" as he claimed in the FP meeting in February.

 

[procrastination wolf]

I honestly don't think people realise the cost of running a football club.

Maintaining the stadium, pitch, training ground, staff as well as player transfers, saleries, bonuses and taxes.

If Morgan wanted to make money he would NOT have chosen to invest in a football club.

People talk about us having money in the bank from previous transfer deals but for a second just think about how much a total deal for a player who cost 3.5 million, plus 10% signing fee plus a 4 year deal of 20k per week. Total cost is approaching 10 million!

Before we can attempt to re-build or bring in new players we have to reduce the sqaud and get rid of the high earners.

 

[Urko]

I just wanna know if we have any money left in the bank ? or if it has been frittered away, paying off his managerial flops and their entourage, not to mention the donkeys signed permanently or on loan.

 

[WalsallWolf]

I honestly don't think people realise the cost of running a football club.

Maintaining the stadium, pitch, training ground, staff as well as player transfers, saleries, bonuses and taxes.

If Morgan wanted to make money he would NOT have chosen to invest in a football club.

People talk about us having money in the bank from previous transfer deals but for a second just think about how much a total deal for a player who cost 3.5 million, plus 10% signing fee plus a 4 year deal of 20k per week. Total cost is approaching 10 million!

Before we can attempt to re-build or bring in new players we have to reduce the sqaud and get rid of the high earners.

Some people just outright refuse to see this.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

Just to make the point that I think the university got something for the land, enabling investment in the new science park. Redrow also contributed £2.5m towards the new school.

http://comptonparkdevelopment.co.uk/wt/compton_park/press_releases/compton_park_presentation_materials_from_latest_press_consultation_meeting
board 6.

Thanks - that's a useful contribution. If the house building generated £2.5M profit and this went to funding the educational project then the developers and council clearly all did their job well. All I am asking for is some transparency.

 

[reanswolf]

I honestly don't think people realise the cost of running a football club.

Maintaining the stadium, pitch, training ground, staff as well as player transfers, saleries, bonuses and taxes.

If Morgan wanted to make money he would NOT have chosen to invest in a football club.

People talk about us having money in the bank from previous transfer deals but for a second just think about how much a total deal for a player who cost 3.5 million, plus 10% signing fee plus a 4 year deal of 20k per week. Total cost is approaching 10 million!

Before we can attempt to re-build or bring in new players we have to reduce the sqaud and get rid of the high earners.

I understand the point, but if a company (whatever field it is in) wishes to thrive and so provide financial return, it needs some encouragement and investment. The way Wolves are run is dreadful, even now, decisions continue to be based on immediate short term profit rather than medium term welfare of the organisation.

i am no economist or financial entrepreneur, but these basic principles appear to be overlooked again and again by the two M's. I find this staggering.

I want them both out as they are a cancer to my club I am afraid.

 

[Penk Wolf]

I understand the point, but if a company (whatever field it is in) wishes to thrive and so provide financial return, it needs some encouragement and investment. The way Wolves are run is dreadful, even now, decisions continue to be based on immediate short term profit rather than medium term welfare of the organisation.

i am no economist or financial entrepreneur, but these basic principles appear to be overlooked again and again by the two M's. I find this staggering.

I want them both out as they are a cancer to my club I am afraid.

Fair point, Reans. Virtually every company is built on debt, including Redrow.

 

[Big Nosed Wolf]

I don't think anyone (who doesn't need their skull tapping) can be in too much doubt anymore about the damage done to the club.

As I think I have mentioned before, until the structure of the club and game changes and the whole 'community' owns the club then asking for transparency about its financial, (or any other,) aspect of how the club's 'business' is conducted will be a pretty fruitless experience.

What should not now be in question is the owner's (and his 'adviser' ) lack of ability or intent to take the club forward in a dignified and progressive way.

Once again a close season has passed with a 'downscaling' based on this assumption that 'the club must live within its financial means', but anyone in 'business' should know that financial investment is crucial to its well being.

And it is this point that should raise alarm bells. Morgan of course knows this but has seemingly sanctioned draconian methods to halt much further investment at all. It would seem that one of the things he naively assumed was that the GL dollar was going to continue and when the meltdown started he was transfixed like the cliched rabbit in the headlights. Now, I fear the 'love' which was there a la SJH, and which kept by and large the 'investment' rolling in, just aint there. Morgan is the type of 'owner' who's ego is bigger than is brain. He wanted the kudos but of course ( as I also think I have mentioned before) owning a football club should be about much more than one man's ego and his flights of fancy.

As SJH said, Wolves is for life. So is this the case with 'Score Four Steve'? It is for the 'best in the business' probably but for other reasons primarily than being its 'No 1 fan'.

I see only a struggling outfit and it's starting to have a 'better off' feel to the eighties debacle.( For those unfamiliar with my posts, yes I was there) Relative but it is staring to look like it is again being starved of investment.

Watching the Morcambe game was soul destroying. The team was full of tryers but either too inexperienced or simply not good enough, just like the mid eighties.

I don't pretend to have the answer becuase the basket case of English 'soccer' (yankee style) is a hijacked institution and WWFC have no-one who cares enough or is clued up enough, in the 'power' who can cope with it.

 

[The Pig]

but if a company (whatever field it is in) wishes to thrive and so provide financial return, it needs some encouragement and investment.

Wolves have had plenty of investment, unfortunately none of it has bourne much fluit, the academy is not really yielding, the new stand a white elephant, any major investment in players have yielded two relegations.

 

[reanswolf]

Wolves have had plenty of investment, unfortunately none of it has bourne much fluit, the academy is not really yielding, the new stand a white elephant, any major investment in players have yielded two relegations.

Last seasons last minute panic buying was created by a desire to squeeze extra pennies, but possibly led to key targets being missed and "lower down the list targets" being acquired.

I think the same policy prevails this season. They are reacting now to criticism, I doubt the acquisitions (if any materialise) will be much good. Really hope I am wrong!