Will Fosun realise?

[Mile End Wanderer]

You know my stance on Jeff……. Post about it enough lol

Fosun did great at the start but it has been consistent mistakes since the final 7th place season…….

Oh yeah! Replacing Jota with Fabio Silva instead of someone proven downward spiral ever since.

 

[Golden Arrow]

Chill out folk, it's only a game someone once said.
Just reset your expectations to a mid table team with the occasional cup run and you can't go wrong, although we may have to include forum topics about gardening and baking cakes to keep the equilibrium.
Having said that, we'll still probably come to blows on what time is right for putting those bedding plants out.
P.S. have we got a song for Joao yet ?

 

[hollo]

I was thrilled we were doing great in Feb. …..and, imo, the squad was fine enough, but we all know it could have been bigger.
Who would have thought that we’d have 4 forwards injured?….that’s just bad luck.

And I do praise the owners for what they’ve given us . I’m not stupid, they’re not perfect but I’m grateful. Very much so.

It's "overloading"

 

[berwickwolf]

Oh yeah! Replacing Jota with Fabio Silva instead of someone proven downward spiral ever since.

We didn't. Neto was the new Jota, with Traore on the other side and Jiminez in the middle, and we also had Podence.

 

[Woolywolf]

The thing I find so disconcerting (and on numerous other occasions) is the complete lack of communication between those at the top of our club
Jeff ‘ Gary / Matt you really are doing an amazing job, however we’re not out of the woods financially. Things are very fluid and I can not say for definite there will be funds to complete any deal in Jan. Let’s move the costs of those surplus by getting them out on loan, but I can not guarantee this will result in any incomings. I take full responsibility for this and fully acknowledge your very valid concerns. I appreciate how hard you have worked to put us in this position. I also appreciate you putting the club first and I will do whatever I can to support your plans in the summer’
Gaz/Matt ‘ Ok boss, let’s hug it out’
Cmon Jeff it’s good to talk

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

We didn't. Neto was the new Jota, with Traore on the other side and Jiminez in the middle, and we also had Podence.

Still downward spiral since. Even Nuno wanted to kick on. Covid hit and here we are happy to be in the big boy league milking the money

 

[berwickwolf]

Still downward spiral since. Even Nuno wanted to kick on. Covid hit and here we are happy to be in the big boy league milking the money

Yeah, covid hit, and we are still recovering. Fosun and the Chinese economy took a hit, we lost Jiminez and Nuno, and invested in a promising coach who turned out not to be, and then rescued by Lopetegui. We bought badly. But I don't think it's fair to say Fosun are milking the money!!

 

[SakosRightFoot]

Yeah, covid hit, and we are still recovering. Fosun and the Chinese economy took a hit, we lost Jiminez and Nuno, and invested in a promising coach who turned out not to be, and then rescued by Lopetegui. We bought badly. But I don't think it's fair to say Fosun are milking the money!!

Weren’t we losing £184 for every £100 that came in or something like that. Hardly milking money the club costs a fortune

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

Yeah, I am waiting too for the apologies.

I’ve sent you an email? Check the iPad!

 

[bod101]

To be fair we did try to sign that Brazilian striker and only at the last minute did it get scuppered to agent issues

 

[clivewolves]

Someone might have already posted this interview. Matt Hobbs addressed this last month.

Gary O'Neil impact at Wolves: Sporting director Matt Hobbs explains the club's vision

In this in-depth interview, Wolves sporting director Matt Hobbs explains Gary ONeils impact and sets out the vision for navigating the clubs financial pressures.

www.skysports.com

'Wolves were close to bringing in a striker late in the January transfer window only for agent fees to scupper the deal. A move for Armando Broja from Chelsea was considered but would have necessitated a loan fee that the club felt they were unable to justify.

“We did not believe he would start for us. We thought he would be a fantastic option, for sure. So, committing ourselves to that, short term, where we were never going to pay the option price, would have been nice to have but was it really a necessity?

“If we finish the season and just miss out it would be like, ‘if we just had a little bit of a go.’ Which is what the fans want to hear, I understand that. But we are custodians so I have to make sure that whenever I leave the club it is in a better situation.”

The club had been cautious in its forecasts for the 2023/24 season – budgeting for a 17th-place finish. “Not that I expect us to finish there. But then we do not have to be reactive. We do not have to sell our players cheaper than we want or earlier than we want.”

That forecast has them meeting PSR with just £2.5m to spare for the three-year period from 2021 to 2024, although with a reward of £2.8m on offer for each place in the Premier League table, it is unlikely to be so tight. Might that have allowed them to spend?

“That was Gary’s argument too,” laughs Hobbs.

“If you have honest conversations at the start, you do not end up with the problem of ‘you told me this to get me here.’ Then you create a problem.” An allusion, perhaps, to the issues with Lopetegui. “Gary came knowing exactly what the situation was,” he adds.

“In the end, he said that he trusted us that if we didn’t think there was a right one to do, don’t worry about it. I think our relationship helps. If you look at the forwards that moved there was not anyone that really would have worked for us.”'

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

Someone might have already posted this interview. Matt Hobbs addressed this last month.

Gary O'Neil impact at Wolves: Sporting director Matt Hobbs explains the club's vision

In this in-depth interview, Wolves sporting director Matt Hobbs explains Gary ONeils impact and sets out the vision for navigating the clubs financial pressures.

www.skysports.com

'Wolves were close to bringing in a striker late in the January transfer window only for agent fees to scupper the deal. A move for Armando Broja from Chelsea was considered but would have necessitated a loan fee that the club felt they were unable to justify.

“We did not believe he would start for us. We thought he would be a fantastic option, for sure. So, committing ourselves to that, short term, where we were never going to pay the option price, would have been nice to have but was it really a necessity?

“If we finish the season and just miss out it would be like, ‘if we just had a little bit of a go.’ Which is what the fans want to hear, I understand that. But we are custodians so I have to make sure that whenever I leave the club it is in a better situation.”

The club had been cautious in its forecasts for the 2023/24 season – budgeting for a 17th-place finish. “Not that I expect us to finish there. But then we do not have to be reactive. We do not have to sell our players cheaper than we want or earlier than we want.”

That forecast has them meeting PSR with just £2.5m to spare for the three-year period from 2021 to 2024, although with a reward of £2.8m on offer for each place in the Premier League table, it is unlikely to be so tight. Might that have allowed them to spend?

“That was Gary’s argument too,” laughs Hobbs.

“If you have honest conversations at the start, you do not end up with the problem of ‘you told me this to get me here.’ Then you create a problem.” An allusion, perhaps, to the issues with Lopetegui. “Gary came knowing exactly what the situation was,” he adds.

“In the end, he said that he trusted us that if we didn’t think there was a right one to do, don’t worry about it. I think our relationship helps. If you look at the forwards that moved there was not anyone that really would have worked for us.”'

That missed me first time round and it’s a very balanced opinion from the bloke who is ultimately GON’s boss. He’s absolutely right that it’s not what the fans want to hear. As fans we have an emotional attachment to the club that Hobbs/Shi/GON don’t have and unfortunately that emotion doesn’t always equate to logical thinking. I think in every window, pretty much every clubs fans want more spent, they don’t worry about the debt or the future, they look at players and the affect they have on short term goals. I know it’s a bit of a cliche and was a long time ago but no Leeds fans ever moaned at Ridsdale throwing cash about and a few years ago neither were Everton fans.

 

[WickedWolfie]

Someone might have already posted this interview. Matt Hobbs addressed this last month.

Gary O'Neil impact at Wolves: Sporting director Matt Hobbs explains the club's vision

In this in-depth interview, Wolves sporting director Matt Hobbs explains Gary ONeils impact and sets out the vision for navigating the clubs financial pressures.

www.skysports.com

'Wolves were close to bringing in a striker late in the January transfer window only for agent fees to scupper the deal. A move for Armando Broja from Chelsea was considered but would have necessitated a loan fee that the club felt they were unable to justify.

“We did not believe he would start for us. We thought he would be a fantastic option, for sure. So, committing ourselves to that, short term, where we were never going to pay the option price, would have been nice to have but was it really a necessity?

“If we finish the season and just miss out it would be like, ‘if we just had a little bit of a go.’ Which is what the fans want to hear, I understand that. But we are custodians so I have to make sure that whenever I leave the club it is in a better situation.”

The club had been cautious in its forecasts for the 2023/24 season – budgeting for a 17th-place finish. “Not that I expect us to finish there. But then we do not have to be reactive. We do not have to sell our players cheaper than we want or earlier than we want.”

That forecast has them meeting PSR with just £2.5m to spare for the three-year period from 2021 to 2024, although with a reward of £2.8m on offer for each place in the Premier League table, it is unlikely to be so tight. Might that have allowed them to spend?

“That was Gary’s argument too,” laughs Hobbs.

“If you have honest conversations at the start, you do not end up with the problem of ‘you told me this to get me here.’ Then you create a problem.” An allusion, perhaps, to the issues with Lopetegui. “Gary came knowing exactly what the situation was,” he adds.

“In the end, he said that he trusted us that if we didn’t think there was a right one to do, don’t worry about it. I think our relationship helps. If you look at the forwards that moved there was not anyone that really would have worked for us.”'

That missed me first time round and it’s a very balanced opinion from the bloke who is ultimately GON’s boss. He’s absolutely right that it’s not what the fans want to hear. As fans we have an emotional attachment to the club that Hobbs/Shi/GON don’t have and unfortunately that emotion doesn’t always equate to logical thinking. I think in every window, pretty much every clubs fans want more spent, they don’t worry about the debt or the future, they look at players and the affect they have on short term goals. I know it’s a bit of a cliche and was a long time ago but no Leeds fans ever moaned at Ridsdale throwing cash about and a few years ago neither were Everton fans.

Agreed. However In that penultimate para Hobbs more or less admits that JL was lied to.

 

[Ned]

I think, regarding the state of the forward line, that GON also needs to look at himself and shoulder some of the blame. He’d been in the job, what, 3 months (?) and had decided that Sasa and Fabio weren’t for him so stopped playing them and bringing them on. He basically let them fester and froze them out to an extent so they both wanted to leave in January to play some football. He’s a good coach but surely could see the workload he was putting on 3 players in particular and surely could have adapted his plans to give Fabio and Sasa more game time, be it earlier subs or even the occasional start. He cant have it both ways and now passive aggressively moan about the options he’s been left with - he had options but didn’t give them the time of day after the first month of the season.

Just a bit of balance instead of me moaning at Jeff and Hobbs fwiw.

 

[JOSWolf]

To be fair we did try to sign that Brazilian striker and only at the last minute did it get scuppered to agent issues

Shows the money was there, however limited, all window but we left things to the last minute. Things did change in that last week of January. ONeil alluded to this in a press conference before a game just at the end of the window.

 

[Wonder Boyo]

I think, regarding the state of the forward line, that GON also needs to look at himself and shoulder some of the blame. He’d been in the job, what, 3 months (?) and had decided that Sasa and Fabio weren’t for him so stopped playing them and bringing them on. He basically let them fester and froze them out to an extent so they both wanted to leave in January to play some football. He’s a good coach but surely could see the workload he was putting on 3 players in particular and surely could have adapted his plans to give Fabio and Sasa more game time, be it earlier subs or even the occasional start. He cant have it both ways and now passive aggressively moan about the options he’s been left with - he had options but didn’t give them the time of day after the first month of the season.

Just a bit of balance instead of me moaning at Jeff and Hobbs fwiw.

There is a surprisingly nuanced discussion about the GON post-game press conference by Judah and Keen on the latest E&S podcast. One of the points they raise is that earlier this season GON was adamant in media interviews that Fabio or Sasa were not a part of his plans and refused to complain about them both being loaned out before we got replacements. They said he had been asked numerous times if this was his decision, to let them go, before replacements were brought in, and he said he was happy to let them go early. Keen said that he now wants to ask GON some more questions about this given what he had to say post Burnley.

Have to say I was totally underwhelmed by both players when I saw them in action early in the season, particularly Fabio and wasn't bothered to see them go. GON obviously didn't fancy either of them, but I do wonder if he could have used them a little more to stop the 'overloading' on the first choice forwards that he keeps referring to. I think he just thought they were not good enough and playing them came at a risk of being far less effective in games. Interestingly, up here in the toon, some Newcastle fans are blaming Eddie Howe for overloading this first eleven in the early part of the season and not using the squad enough. This resulted in more injuries throughout his preferred starting eleven and meant he was forced to use his whole squad anyway as these players picked up injuries.

 

[SuperGran]

Someone might have already posted this interview. Matt Hobbs addressed this last month.

Gary O'Neil impact at Wolves: Sporting director Matt Hobbs explains the club's vision

In this in-depth interview, Wolves sporting director Matt Hobbs explains Gary ONeils impact and sets out the vision for navigating the clubs financial pressures.

www.skysports.com

'Wolves were close to bringing in a striker late in the January transfer window only for agent fees to scupper the deal. A move for Armando Broja from Chelsea was considered but would have necessitated a loan fee that the club felt they were unable to justify.

“We did not believe he would start for us. We thought he would be a fantastic option, for sure. So, committing ourselves to that, short term, where we were never going to pay the option price, would have been nice to have but was it really a necessity?

“If we finish the season and just miss out it would be like, ‘if we just had a little bit of a go.’ Which is what the fans want to hear, I understand that. But we are custodians so I have to make sure that whenever I leave the club it is in a better situation.”

The club had been cautious in its forecasts for the 2023/24 season – budgeting for a 17th-place finish. “Not that I expect us to finish there. But then we do not have to be reactive. We do not have to sell our players cheaper than we want or earlier than we want.”

That forecast has them meeting PSR with just £2.5m to spare for the three-year period from 2021 to 2024, although with a reward of £2.8m on offer for each place in the Premier League table, it is unlikely to be so tight. Might that have allowed them to spend?

“That was Gary’s argument too,” laughs Hobbs.

“If you have honest conversations at the start, you do not end up with the problem of ‘you told me this to get me here.’ Then you create a problem.” An allusion, perhaps, to the issues with Lopetegui. “Gary came knowing exactly what the situation was,” he adds.

“In the end, he said that he trusted us that if we didn’t think there was a right one to do, don’t worry about it. I think our relationship helps. If you look at the forwards that moved there was not anyone that really would have worked for us.”'

Missed that as well

 

[lets all have a disco]

There is a surprisingly nuanced discussion about the GON post-game press conference by Judah and Keen on the latest E&S podcast. One of the points they raise is that earlier this season GON was adamant in media interviews that Fabio or Sasa were not a part of his plans and refused to complain about them both being loaned out before we got replacements. They said he had been asked numerous times if this was his decision, to let them go, before replacements were brought in, and he said he was happy to let them go early. Keen said that he now wants to ask GON some more questions about this given what he had to say post Burnley.

Have to say I was totally underwhelmed by both players when I saw them in action early in the season, particularly Fabio and wasn't bothered to see them go. GON obviously didn't fancy either of them, but I do wonder if he could have used them a little more to stop the 'overloading' on the first choice forwards that he keeps referring to. I think he just thought they were not good enough and playing them came at a risk of being far less effective in games. Interestingly, up here in the toon, some Newcastle fans are blaming Eddie Howe for overloading this first eleven in the early part of the season and not using the squad enough. This resulted in more injuries throughout his preferred starting eleven and meant he was forced to use his whole squad anyway as these players picked up injuries.

Totally agree with this....said before although I sympathise with O'Neil , he can't use over loading players as a excuse....he didn't use Fabio and Saza in any form pre Christmas...that his perogative off course and I don't blame him but he can't have it both ways..

João Gomes for instance had a busy international week last week and has been used by O'Neil for both games recently despite having a relatively fresh Doyle and S totally fresh Bouba.....again understandable but again don't moan if Gomes breaks down ..

In fosun defence why pay Saza n Fabio if the coach has shown he won't use them ...

 

[Aimless Balls]

Lovely that he addressed it but we still let go of strikers before getting another and didn’t get it done. Got no deal done. Blame the bad man in Brazil. Ok. You listen to the manager when he says guys can go when it saves you money, don’t listen when he asks you to spend. Ok.

 

[Jefe]

Someone might have already posted this interview. Matt Hobbs addressed this last month.

Gary O'Neil impact at Wolves: Sporting director Matt Hobbs explains the club's vision

In this in-depth interview, Wolves sporting director Matt Hobbs explains Gary ONeils impact and sets out the vision for navigating the clubs financial pressures.

www.skysports.com

'Wolves were close to bringing in a striker late in the January transfer window only for agent fees to scupper the deal. A move for Armando Broja from Chelsea was considered but would have necessitated a loan fee that the club felt they were unable to justify.

“We did not believe he would start for us. We thought he would be a fantastic option, for sure. So, committing ourselves to that, short term, where we were never going to pay the option price, would have been nice to have but was it really a necessity?

“If we finish the season and just miss out it would be like, ‘if we just had a little bit of a go.’ Which is what the fans want to hear, I understand that. But we are custodians so I have to make sure that whenever I leave the club it is in a better situation.”

The club had been cautious in its forecasts for the 2023/24 season – budgeting for a 17th-place finish. “Not that I expect us to finish there. But then we do not have to be reactive. We do not have to sell our players cheaper than we want or earlier than we want.”

That forecast has them meeting PSR with just £2.5m to spare for the three-year period from 2021 to 2024, although with a reward of £2.8m on offer for each place in the Premier League table, it is unlikely to be so tight. Might that have allowed them to spend?

“That was Gary’s argument too,” laughs Hobbs.

“If you have honest conversations at the start, you do not end up with the problem of ‘you told me this to get me here.’ Then you create a problem.” An allusion, perhaps, to the issues with Lopetegui. “Gary came knowing exactly what the situation was,” he adds.

“In the end, he said that he trusted us that if we didn’t think there was a right one to do, don’t worry about it. I think our relationship helps. If you look at the forwards that moved there was not anyone that really would have worked for us.”'

Notwithstanding the veiled allusion by Hobbs that Fosun were not honest with Lopetegui, it's worth noting that the Gary O'Neil from the other day cut a significantly less clement figure than the one Hobbs describes coming through the door. I'm sure he's gagging for a Broja now. Besides that, I do find this kind of comment incredibly frustrating: “If we finish the season and just miss out it would be like, ‘if we just had a little bit of a go.’ Which is what the fans want to hear, I understand that. But we are custodians so I have to make sure that whenever I leave the club it is in a better situation.”

Acknowledging the fans' wants is fine, but as a fan, my belief that just missing out on Europe (and doing it repeatedly) does not put your club in a better situation: be that in your reputation, good will from fans, attractiveness to players, or hell even economical, arguably. This comment is about fear: what if we spend a bit more, and fail to qualify? Well, what if we succeed, Matt? UEFA are likely to award England an extra Champions League spot this season, meaning as low as 8th place equals European qualification - we won't get a better opportunity for years.

"Just missing out" could be the motto on Fosun's crest by this point (Admodum absentis e?). We've been able to reach out and touch greater things, only to fall short: Nuno's second season, Lage's first, now in all likelihood Gary's first. We always seem to run out of steam, and it is mostly to do with Fosun failing to supply their managers with options, particularly up front. Broja might not have been started ahead of Cunha, but I guarantee he'd have been playing in the 7 games since Cunha's injury, which has seen our PPG fall to 1.4 (compared to 1.9 from the previous 7), and lose a very winnable FA Cup QF.

 

[Ned]

There is a surprisingly nuanced discussion about the GON post-game press conference by Judah and Keen on the latest E&S podcast. One of the points they raise is that earlier this season GON was adamant in media interviews that Fabio or Sasa were not a part of his plans and refused to complain about them both being loaned out before we got replacements. They said he had been asked numerous times if this was his decision, to let them go, before replacements were brought in, and he said he was happy to let them go early. Keen said that he now wants to ask GON some more questions about this given what he had to say post Burnley.

Have to say I was totally underwhelmed by both players when I saw them in action early in the season, particularly Fabio and wasn't bothered to see them go. GON obviously didn't fancy either of them, but I do wonder if he could have used them a little more to stop the 'overloading' on the first choice forwards that he keeps referring to. I think he just thought they were not good enough and playing them came at a risk of being far less effective in games. Interestingly, up here in the toon, some Newcastle fans are blaming Eddie Howe for overloading this first eleven in the early part of the season and not using the squad enough. This resulted in more injuries throughout his preferred starting eleven and meant he was forced to use his whole squad anyway as these players picked up injuries.

Totally agree with this....said before although I sympathise with O'Neil , he can't use over loading players as a excuse....he didn't use Fabio and Saza in any form pre Christmas...that his perogative off course and I don't blame him but he can't have it both ways..

João Gomes for instance had a busy international week last week and has been used by O'Neil for both games recently despite having a relatively fresh Doyle and S totally fresh Bouba.....again understandable but again don't moan if Gomes breaks down ..

In fosun defence why pay Saza n Fabio if the coach has shown he won't use them ...

100% agree with both of these. Having cake and eating it springs to mind.

 

[Sussex Wolf]

Notwithstanding the veiled allusion by Hobbs that Fosun were not honest with Lopetegui, it's worth noting that the Gary O'Neil from the other day cut a significantly less clement figure than the one Hobbs describes coming through the door. I'm sure he's gagging for a Broja now. Besides that, I do find this kind of comment incredibly frustrating: “If we finish the season and just miss out it would be like, ‘if we just had a little bit of a go.’ Which is what the fans want to hear, I understand that. But we are custodians so I have to make sure that whenever I leave the club it is in a better situation.”

Acknowledging the fans' wants is fine, but as a fan, my belief that just missing out on Europe (and doing it repeatedly) does not put your club in a better situation: be that in your reputation, good will from fans, attractiveness to players, or hell even economical, arguably. This comment is about fear: what if we spend a bit more, and fail to qualify? Well, what if we succeed, Matt? UEFA are likely to award England an extra Champions League spot this season, meaning as low as 8th place equals European qualification - we won't get a better opportunity for years.

"Just missing out" could be the motto on Fosun's crest by this point (Admodum absentis e?). We've been able to reach out and touch greater things, only to fall short: Nuno's second season, Lage's first, now in all likelihood Gary's first. We always seem to run out of steam, and it is mostly to do with Fosun failing to supply their managers with options, particularly up front. Broja might not have been started ahead of Cunha, but I guarantee he'd have been playing in the 7 games since Cunha's injury, which has seen our PPG fall to 1.4 (compared to 1.9 from the previous 7), and lose a very winnable FA Cup QF.

Sure he would have been playing, but I strongly suspect he wouldn’t have been scoring or contributing to assists.

Look at his Fulham stats… played 4, scored 0, assist 1.
His Chelsea stats this season before his move… played 13, scored 1, assist 0.
His Chelsea stats last season… played 12, scored 1, assist 0

I watched him play for Chelsea against Boro in the cup at the Bridge in January before his loan move. Since he had been linked with Wolves by then, I paid extra attention and had a great view in the lower tier of the away end as Chelsea were attacking that end first half when he started. His movement was decent at first, and his pressure caused the OG which started Chelsea scoring, but that’s it. After that, he did sweet fa. That was against a Boro defence that let in 6 goals that night. He was subbed second half for Gallagher who at least got 2 assists in half the time Broja was on.

I’m not sad we didn’t go all out for him.

 

[MickHolmesFanClub]

I think, regarding the state of the forward line, that GON also needs to look at himself and shoulder some of the blame. He’d been in the job, what, 3 months (?) and had decided that Sasa and Fabio weren’t for him so stopped playing them and bringing them on. He basically let them fester and froze them out to an extent so they both wanted to leave in January to play some football. He’s a good coach but surely could see the workload he was putting on 3 players in particular and surely could have adapted his plans to give Fabio and Sasa more game time, be it earlier subs or even the occasional start. He cant have it both ways and now passive aggressively moan about the options he’s been left with - he had options but didn’t give them the time of day after the first month of the season.

Just a bit of balance instead of me moaning at Jeff and Hobbs fwiw.

I have to say that I agree with much of this.

I understand that he didn't want to bring them on when games were finely balanced, although Sasa did prove his worth on a couple of occasions when this was the case, but he just didn't even bring them on to give the other forwards a rest in games where it was pretty much done and dusted with 15 minutes to go - West Ham (away) and Everton (home) spring to mind.

 

[SuperGran]

I have to say that I agree with much of this.

I understand that he didn't want to bring them on when games were finely balanced, although Sasa did prove his worth on a couple of occasions when this was the case, but he just didn't even bring them on to give the other forwards a rest in games where it was pretty much done and dusted with 15 minutes to go - West Ham (away) and Everton (home) spring to mind.

Forest at home, we were needing a goal, doesn’t bring silva on at all, and brought sasa on with about 90 seconds left

 

[Chisels_n_ommers]

Notwithstanding the veiled allusion by Hobbs that Fosun were not honest with Lopetegui, it's worth noting that the Gary O'Neil from the other day cut a significantly less clement figure than the one Hobbs describes coming through the door. I'm sure he's gagging for a Broja now. Besides that, I do find this kind of comment incredibly frustrating: “If we finish the season and just miss out it would be like, ‘if we just had a little bit of a go.’ Which is what the fans want to hear, I understand that. But we are custodians so I have to make sure that whenever I leave the club it is in a better situation.”

Acknowledging the fans' wants is fine, but as a fan, my belief that just missing out on Europe (and doing it repeatedly) does not put your club in a better situation: be that in your reputation, good will from fans, attractiveness to players, or hell even economical, arguably. This comment is about fear: what if we spend a bit more, and fail to qualify? Well, what if we succeed, Matt? UEFA are likely to award England an extra Champions League spot this season, meaning as low as 8th place equals European qualification - we won't get a better opportunity for years.

"Just missing out" could be the motto on Fosun's crest by this point (Admodum absentis e?). We've been able to reach out and touch greater things, only to fall short: Nuno's second season, Lage's first, now in all likelihood Gary's first. We always seem to run out of steam, and it is mostly to do with Fosun failing to supply their managers with options, particularly up front. Broja might not have been started ahead of Cunha, but I guarantee he'd have been playing in the 7 games since Cunha's injury, which has seen our PPG fall to 1.4 (compared to 1.9 from the previous 7), and lose a very winnable FA Cup QF.

Although this is all very frustrating for Fans and Coaches alike, I think it is good advice to "watch what you're saying".

I've heard GON say (before these last 2 games) that the brief was to avoid the drop and Europe would be a fantastic achievement but was not really something they were thinking about.

I don't think it serves any purpose for a manager saying that.

The last couple of pressers (particularly the Burnley one). Again, what is the point of listing these problems? It's adding nothing - they are known facts.

One thing that can happen is to demoralise players. If you're a Semedo or Lemina or Gomes (not to mention the kids coming in) you're effectively saying that we aren't up to it. A player could take that personally or (and usually) a player has an excuse to not perform. Never give players an excuse not to perform because most will take it.

Sean Dyche it's fair to say, has been well up against it all season. I've not heard him complain about the circumstances (yes VAR and decisions he's moaned about at times but not the background stuff). I think if Dyche went the other way it would fall apart completely for them - they are awful and Dyche is tactically one dimensional, he's not a good coach but he's certainly got a bit of the Dunkirk spirt about him and they will probably stay up.

IMHO, I think GON is best to portray as positive a vibe as he can. Surely it's the way to get the best out of the situation? It's not a time for a woe is me, what can I do about it mentality. It's a time to pit your whits and get through it - I think GON is showing inexperience here.

 

[WeAreTheWolvesII]

That's more nonsense from Hobbs because it all comes back to the PSR.

As I keep explaining, this '£2.5m from the limit' cannot be right. It can't be. You're all able to look at the figures but they're banking on the fact a) you don't want to and b) you don't really know what they mean.

Then, when the figures do come out in 12 months time, they'll be hoping people don't care because hopefully we're doing well, and they'll spin it, such as highlighting a £113m loss over a two-year period even though £33m can be deducted. They will also claim finishing higher in the league than we forecast changed everything way more than it actually did.

So for him to talk about honesty and fair communication is laughable, but I also acknowledge it's not his fault, he is doing what he is told.

To then have our situation compared to Leeds or Everton just proves how it's working and how some of our fans are. Asking for us not to have the worst squad depth in the entire English professional divisions (O'Neil's words, not mine) is not demanding signing after signing and risking our future.


As for some of the arguments, I don't really get them. Saying he didn't use Fabio or Sasa is obviously factually correct, but he didn't use them because he had Cunha, Neto and Hwang. Why would you use the two inferior players? Results proved we didn't need them.

But if this injury situation happened in November, they would have quite clearly played.

You could perhaps argue his 'overloading them' comments shows he should've rotated, but O'Neil will counter that by saying he expected new signings in January, and he would've made changes then.

With his comments, O'Neil clearly didn't want to throw the others under the bus. So when they left, he didn't want to start moaning and risk losing the positive momentum we had at the time. I don't agree with that stance, but it's clear why he did it.

There's also undoubtedly self-preservation from O'Neil with his reaction after Burnley. I'm not a fan of that, as I feel he should've stood up to them in January. However, again, you can see why he has done it because he is right. He does have the worst squad depth £ for £ in English football, and he will also know that it's not PSR related, hence his 'financial reasons' and 'not sure if it's the club or PSR' comments.

You can rightly argue he knew what he walked into, and if O'Neil was complaining prior to January then he would be in the wrong. Wolves offered him the job a few weeks before the window shut and he knew that there wouldn't be much business done in that period.

However, I cannot believe for one second that he went into January and agreed to having two strikers sold and none coming in. So, the situation has changed quite significantly and he is within his rights to moan about that.

 

[Jefe]

Sure he would have been playing, but I strongly suspect he wouldn’t have been scoring or contributing to assists.

Look at his Fulham stats… played 4, scored 0, assist 1.
His Chelsea stats this season before his move… played 13, scored 1, assist 0.
His Chelsea stats last season… played 12, scored 1, assist 0

I watched him play for Chelsea against Boro in the cup at the Bridge in January before his loan move. Since he had been linked with Wolves by then, I paid extra attention and had a great view in the lower tier of the away end as Chelsea were attacking that end first half when he started. His movement was decent at first, and his pressure caused the OG which started Chelsea scoring, but that’s it. After that, he did sweet fa. That was against a Boro defence that let in 6 goals that night. He was subbed second half for Gallagher who at least got 2 assists in half the time Broja was on.

I’m not sad we didn’t go all out for him.

He has a goal contribution every 148 minutes this season in all competitions, and 166 in the league, so I don't think he is nearly as bad as you're making out. If he had a run of starts and a chance to build his match sharpness, I am positive he would get goals and assists.

There are all manner of reasons why he hasn't done so well at Chelsea, to which we are not party. Perhaps he's the sort of young man with confidence issues who needs careful vis-a-vis man management, or a good old arm round the shoulder which he might not have been getting in the environment at a club like Chelsea (and that Gary probably would have been able to offer). As for Fulham, Marco Silva has admitted it is down to the unexpectedly electric form of Rodrigo Muniz, who has 9 goal contributions in his last 9 games.

 

[wolvesjoe]

Although this is all very frustrating for Fans and Coaches alike, I think it is good advice to "watch what you're saying".

I've heard GON say (before these last 2 games) that the brief was to avoid the drop and Europe would be a fantastic achievement but was not really something they were thinking about.

I don't think it serves any purpose for a manager saying that.

The last couple of pressers (particularly the Burnley one). Again, what is the point of listing these problems? It's adding nothing - they are known facts.

One thing that can happen is to demoralise players. If you're a Semedo or Lemina or Gomes (not to mention the kids coming in) you're effectively saying that we aren't up to it. A player could take that personally or (and usually) a player has an excuse to not perform. Never give players an excuse not to perform because most will take it.

Sean Dyche it's fair to say, has been well up against it all season. I've not heard him complain about the circumstances (yes VAR and decisions he's moaned about at times but not the background stuff). I think if Dyche went the other way it would fall apart completely for them - they are awful and Dyche is tactically one dimensional, he's not a good coach but he's certainly got a bit of the Dunkirk spirt about him and they will probably stay up.

IMHO, I think GON is best to portray as positive a vibe as he can. Surely it's the way to get the best out of the situation? It's not a time for a woe is me, what can I do about it mentality. It's a time to pit your whits and get through it - I think GON is showing inexperience here.

Dyche is fighting a relegation battle, Wolves were in for a cup semi final and a chase for 6th-7th. Its a different context, with different demands for performance and points.

Fosun have effectively cut this season off at the knees, and damaged the club in many ways.

We just dont know how much yet.

Over the years, I have learnt that there are always apologists for the board on this site and elsewhere. No matter
how egregious their mistakes.

 

[wolvesjoe]

That's more nonsense from Hobbs because it all comes back to the PSR.

As I keep explaining, this '£2.5m from the limit' cannot be right. It can't be. You're all able to look at the figures but they're banking on the fact a) you don't want to and b) you don't really know what they mean.

Then, when the figures do come out in 12 months time, they'll be hoping people don't care because hopefully we're doing well, and they'll spin it, such as highlighting a £113m loss over a two-year period even though £33m can be deducted. They will also claim finishing higher in the league than we forecast changed everything way more than it actually did.

So for him to talk about honesty and fair communication is laughable, but I also acknowledge it's not his fault, he is doing what he is told.

To then have our situation compared to Leeds or Everton just proves how it's working and how some of our fans are. Asking for us not to have the worst squad depth in the entire English professional divisions (O'Neil's words, not mine) is not demanding signing after signing and risking our future.


As for some of the arguments, I don't really get them. Saying he didn't use Fabio or Sasa is obviously factually correct, but he didn't use them because he had Cunha, Neto and Hwang. Why would you use the two inferior players? Results proved we didn't need them.

But if this injury situation happened in November, they would have quite clearly played.

You could perhaps argue his 'overloading them' comments shows he should've rotated, but O'Neil will counter that by saying he expected new signings in January, and he would've made changes then.

With his comments, O'Neil clearly didn't want to throw the others under the bus. So when they left, he didn't want to start moaning and risk losing the positive momentum we had at the time. I don't agree with that stance, but it's clear why he did it.

There's also undoubtedly self-preservation from O'Neil with his reaction after Burnley. I'm not a fan of that, as I feel he should've stood up to them in January. However, again, you can see why he has done it because he is right. He does have the worst squad depth £ for £ in English football, and he will also know that it's not PSR related, hence his 'financial reasons' and 'not sure if it's the club or PSR' comments.

You can rightly argue he knew what he walked into, and if O'Neil was complaining prior to January then he would be in the wrong. Wolves offered him the job a few weeks before the window shut and he knew that there wouldn't be much business done in that period.

However, I cannot believe for one second that he went into January and agreed to having two strikers sold and none coming in. So, the situation has changed quite significantly and he is within his rights to moan about that.

Very good summary. Oneil mentioned on several occasions that he was looking for two signings to replace Sasa and Fabio, which is only logical.

The silly games being played with excuses and misleading, cherry-picked figures for turnover this season, are a product of how Fosun run the club, forcing spokesmen to come out with spin and misdirection. Its a terrible managerial style, borne out of Fosun's own problems, that are not Wolves-related.

 

[QB Wolf]

Very good summary. Oneil mentioned on several occasions that he was looking for two signings to replace Sasa and Fabio, which is only logical.

The silly games being played with excuses and misleading, cherry-picked figures for turnover this season, are a product of how Fosun run the club, forcing spokesmen to come out with spin and misdirection. Its a terrible managerial style, borne out of Fosun's own problems, that are not Wolves-related.

No one was complaining when Fosun were pumping millions in and we benefited from their wider success, can't really complain if we're now hamstrung by issues they face, you take the rough with the smooth.

 

[wolvesjoe]

No one was complaining when Fosun were pumping millions in and we benefited from their wider success, can't really complain if we're now hamstrung by issues they face, you take the rough with the smooth.

That's not a rational response.

The club had, (still just about has if a miracle can be worked), the chance of a breakthrough season, with major financial and football advantages attached. Fosun took ultra-cautious steps when just a relatively small amount of risk was required, with not much downside.

It's moments like this that signify when a change of ownership may be required, nothing to do with the fatalistic taking the rough with the smooth. If Fosun cant take the club forward, and indeed threaten to take it backwards if the coach and best players abandon ship, then it is incumbent on them to find owners who can.

 

[Chisels_n_ommers]

Dyche is fighting a relegation battle, Wolves were in for a cup semi final and a chase for 6th-7th. Its a different context, with different demands for performance and points.

Fosun have effectively cut this season off at the knees, and damaged the club in many ways.

We just dont know how much yet.

Over the years, I have learnt that there are always apologists for the board on this site and elsewhere. No matter
how egregious their mistakes.

I hope Fosun sell us on to a better owner. Yes there will be the careful what you wish for brigade coming through.

Careful what you wish for = more of the same/stagnation at best IMO

With regards Dyche, surely he would have more to complain about than GON then?

 

[Kebab Warrior]

Notwithstanding the veiled allusion by Hobbs that Fosun were not honest with Lopetegui, it's worth noting that the Gary O'Neil from the other day cut a significantly less clement figure than the one Hobbs describes coming through the door. I'm sure he's gagging for a Broja now. Besides that, I do find this kind of comment incredibly frustrating: “If we finish the season and just miss out it would be like, ‘if we just had a little bit of a go.’ Which is what the fans want to hear, I understand that. But we are custodians so I have to make sure that whenever I leave the club it is in a better situation.”

Acknowledging the fans' wants is fine, but as a fan, my belief that just missing out on Europe (and doing it repeatedly) does not put your club in a better situation: be that in your reputation, good will from fans, attractiveness to players, or hell even economical, arguably. This comment is about fear: what if we spend a bit more, and fail to qualify? Well, what if we succeed, Matt? UEFA are likely to award England an extra Champions League spot this season, meaning as low as 8th place equals European qualification - we won't get a better opportunity for years.

"Just missing out" could be the motto on Fosun's crest by this point (Admodum absentis e?). We've been able to reach out and touch greater things, only to fall short: Nuno's second season, Lage's first, now in all likelihood Gary's first. We always seem to run out of steam, and it is mostly to do with Fosun failing to supply their managers with options, particularly up front. Broja might not have been started ahead of Cunha, but I guarantee he'd have been playing in the 7 games since Cunha's injury, which has seen our PPG fall to 1.4 (compared to 1.9 from the previous 7), and lose a very winnable FA Cup QF.

As a counter argument - Peter Risdale

 

[Kebab Warrior]

Very good summary. Oneil mentioned on several occasions that he was looking for two signings to replace Sasa and Fabio, which is only logical.

The silly games being played with excuses and misleading, cherry-picked figures for turnover this season, are a product of how Fosun run the club, forcing spokesmen to come out with spin and misdirection. Its a terrible managerial style, borne out of Fosun's own problems, that are not Wolves-related.

I love how the problems are suddenly Fosun related not Wolves related. We make huge losses which Fosun pay for. Without their money we are ****ed. This isn’t the Glazers taking millions out of United.

 

[wolvesjoe]

I hope Fosun sell us on to a better owner. Yes there will be the careful what you wish for brigade coming through.

Careful what you wish for = more of the same/stagnation at best IMO

With regards Dyche, surely he would have more to complain about than GON then?

I always thought Fosun were close to the perfect owners for Wolves...

They brought investment, connections, ambition, and intelligence, as well as a fresh start.

They also seemed to understand the club having studied its history and roots.

So it would be with some trepidation that I viewed new owners. But Jan 24, (and Jan 22 tbh),
showed how far they had left behind most of those original qualities. When they harm the club,
it gets hard to see the point of their ownership. I agree more broadly with the idea that this summer
will be a sort of last chance to see if they can rediscover some of the ambition and strategic thinking,
(although I suspect that bird has flown).

 

[Jefe]

As a counter argument - Peter Risdale

Well yes, there are examples of owners who spent recklessly and wrecked the future of their clubs (at least one of whom is in the Premier League as we speak). As @wolvesjoe says, we're not asking for that though. We're asking for a relatively small amount of risk to supplement a physically ailing group, whose values are in jeopardy should they continue to incur injuries.

From the outside, it looked like Nottingham Forest took the **** with their spending, yet are probably looking at a 2 or 3 point penalty after appeals. What would we get for marginally creeping over the line? It may be controversial to say, but FFP / PSR violations are not all that scary on current evidence.

 

[wolvesjoe]

I love how the problems are suddenly Fosun related not Wolves related. We make huge losses which Fosun pay for. Without their money we are ****ed. This isn’t the Glazers taking millions out of United.

Fosun want Wolves to become self-sustaining, so they are threatening to stop investing.

It is imperative for aspirational clubs to make best use of the allowable losses. If owners cannot
guarantee this, then they cannot function for the club.

 

[Mugwump]

Totally agree with this....said before although I sympathise with O'Neil , he can't use over loading players as a excuse....he didn't use Fabio and Saza in any form pre Christmas...that his perogative off course and I don't blame him but he can't have it both ways..

João Gomes for instance had a busy international week last week and has been used by O'Neil for both games recently despite having a relatively fresh Doyle and S totally fresh Bouba.....again understandable but again don't moan if Gomes breaks down ..

In fosun defence why pay Saza n Fabio if the coach has shown he won't use them ...

I dont think GON rates Traore tbh. He says the right things about him, but as you mentioned, he said it about Sasa and Fabio as well.

 

[WeAreTheWolvesII]

As a counter argument - Peter Risdale

It's not a counter argument because it's irrelevant to us.

We have plenty of room to manoeuvre as I keep saying. Plus, people are asking for one striker or, even better, not getting rid of the ones we had. So we could've done nothing and been better off.

Genuine questions, when the accounts next season show that PSR was not hindering us, how will you feel as a fan? Upset that they lied to you? Not bothered? Will it make you question Fosun and view them cynically?

 

[lets all have a disco]

I dont think GON rates Traore tbh. He says the right things about him, but as you mentioned, he said it about Sasa and Fabio as well.

No he doesn't....nor Hugo Bueno...and not fully Santiago Bueno....

I was digging at O'Neil....I agreed with him not using Fabio and Saza and agreed you put your best team available out but was just saying you can't use burning players out then as an excuse....