When does Kenny get questioned on his decisions?

[Wolves in Limerick]

Is the consensus that Rowe, RVLP and Saville are not up to it? Where is Saville, he hasn't featured at all pre-Season. Personally I believe that the jury has to be out on all three but if the inherent negativity persists, the question has to be asked who is responsible for signing them and the answer has to be KJ. The question then has to be asked is he the manager that so many on here want him to be?

 

[MOLINEUXWOLFIE]

Why does it have to be KJ's fault? we are all very aware of how the Board operates, so what if it's a case of he's been told to make do?

 

[Deleted member 4456]

Are you talking about the same Kenny who manages Wolves? The one with the great win record and the one who cleared out the dross other managers signed?

 

[Golden_Wolf]

It's a big season for RVLP. He has to try and add more consistency/composure to his game.

Saville & Rowe, for me, the jury is still out. Haven't seen enough of them to really judge, especially Rowe in his favoured position.

Not every player is going to turn out great but KJ hasn't got a bad record so far in his transfer dealings for us.

 

[Chungster]

Or more pertinently when do we get to find out what in the name of Lord God and Sonny Jesus are we paying Kevin Thelwell to do?

 

[goldfish]

Even the greatest managers sign duds and I think it's too early to label any of these failures just yet, even if it looks increasingly unlikely Saville will amount to much.

 

[JOSWolf]

Or more pertinently when do we get to find out what in the name of Lord God and Sonny Jesus are we paying Kevin Thelwell to do?

Yes. I would like to know that as well!

 

[goldeneyed]

RVLP and Rowe were on 'frees' The former hasn't done too badly and may improve. Rowe we will have to wait and see but in terms of where we want to go see him as mainly a handy utility player to keep on the bench. Saville is the huge disappointment. Still don't understand why KJ bought him and potentially £1m down the drain.

 

[GBWolf]

Are you talking about the same Kenny who manages Wolves? The one with the great win record and the one who cleared out the dross other managers signed?

This, lets wait until the season starts before we start pointing the finger at anyone

 

[reanswolf]

Its quite a shrewd policy the club operates, they know these discussions repeatedly take place amongst fans but are quite happy not to clarify the position.

Instead we get occasional throwaway comments from the 4 of them that are hard for fans to interpret. Such as Steve Morgan saying "I have never said no to KJ regards buying a player", whilst Jez determines the wage levels that may explain things, and KJ makes a few repeated "We have to do good business now" statements over the past year.

By confusing the fan-base and spreading the responsibility, any blame gets diluted. Clever $$$$ers ay they!

 

[Tring Wolf]

I wrote a long post a couple of weeks ago showing how Jackett's net transfer spend with us is actually slightly negative. He has also had to oversee a drastic cut in the wage bill (around £7m per year since he joined) so to have brought us the success he has shows what an excellent job he has done so far.

In terms of individual transfers, it's pretty straightforward to identify which ones will have been 'Jackett-led' signings based on either his previous experience of managing them or his comments about how he had previously tried to sign them whilst at Millwall. It also, however, needs to be remembered that we changed our whole footballing and recruitment model so it was no longer the sole responsibility of the Head Coach. The days of when Mick would appoint his own scouts has gone so I can't imagine for one second that it was Kenny who came up with the initial recommendation of RVLP.

Anyway, here's my best estimate of the breakdown of our transfer activity:

Jackett-led/influenced signings: Ricketts (success), Henry (success), McDonald (success), Saville (failure), Afobe (success).

Recruitment Team (Thelwell et co) led: RVLP (mixed), Hause (success), Coady (unknown), Dicko (hit)

Unknown: Jacobs (Success), Rowe (injured), Wallace (unknown); Graham (mixed), Golbourne (Success), Sagbo (flop), Kuszchak (mixed), Clarke (flop).

The two things that really stand out to me are:

1). Jackett's success to failure ratio in the transfer market is far higher than that of his predecessors. Especially taking into account the relative lack of resource/wages at his disposal compared to say McCarthy and Solbakken.

2). There's not that many successful signings that I could categorically look back and say it was purely due to creative scouting or recruitment on behalf of the Recruitment Team. Possibly Dicko who was obviously identified the year before.

 

[CodsallWolf]

Its quite a shrewd policy the club operates, they know these discussions repeatedly take place amongst fans but are quite happy not to clarify the position.

Instead we get occasional throwaway comments from the 4 of them that are hard for fans to interpret. Such as Steve Morgan saying "I have never said no to KJ regards buying a player", whilst Jez determines the wage levels that may explain things, and KJ makes a few repeated "We have to do good business now" statements over the past year.

By confusing the fan-base and spreading the responsibility, any blame gets diluted. Clever $$$$ers ay they!

You're over-complicating it I think. I interpret it that SM and JM establish the budget and other criteria (preferred age profile etc) and with Board approval I imagine, and KJ (and KT) has to operate within that and they bring recommendations to the Board for their approval before pursuing the offer etc - and in that context SM/JM/Board has quite possibly never said no to any recommendation. What's so complicated about that?

On a related though though I am still puzzled where KJ's role stops and Thelwell's role starts, but there again I don't work in a football administration environment so I am not surprised I am not that clear. Unlike many others on here I don't adopt a default attitude that everyone at Wolves is a half-wit.

 

[reanswolf]

You're over-complicating it I think. I interpret it that SM and JM establish the budget and other criteria (preferred age profile etc) and with Board approval I imagine, and KJ (and KT) has to operate within that and they bring recommendations to the Board for their approval before pursuing the offer etc - and in that context SM/JM/Board has quite possibly never said no to any recommendation. What's so complicated about that?

.

So its straightforward...............why aren't we getting players in then?

 

[Beastier]

He'll be questionned when there seems to be more of his signings that don't work out than do & if the team is struggling.

Looking at some of the examples above:

RVLP - Not a world beater last season but signed on a free & contributed
Rowe - another freebie & jury still out as hampered by injury last year, though agreed so far yet to make a real impact
Saville - paid out a lot of money & so far not worked out & whilst he must be given opportunity to prove himself there haven't been signs yet of him turning the corner.
Also thrown Clarke into the mix which was basically £1m wasted.

The flip side of this argument being examples such as Dicko, Macdonald & Afobe. All increased in value multiple fold. Profit made on selling Afobe alone would more than cover off the outlay of those listed above & still leave us with plenty of change.

At the moment KJ is getting more right than wrong & as long as it stays that we he's on the right track. He had to get the striker signing right last season & he did...he possibly also dodged a bullet with the guy that opted for Wigan instead of us.

He'll also need to get it right when he's finally given the backing to get some sort of Sako replacement as the team is currently massively depleted by the loss of what he gave us.

 

[Mr Wolf]

You can't knock any manger or club for signing a player who doesn't turn out to be what they wanted, it's just the way it goes.

However if we don't pull 1 player out the bag before the 1st Sept for whatever budget we have for 2 summers in a row that can be an improvement on Clarke then that is very poor.

 

[FLEET WOLF]

All managers make mistakes with signings, but probably there are more mistakes with managers who have to shop at Pound Shop, as opposed to Harrods.

 

[JOSWolf]

So its straightforward...............why aren't we getting players in then?

I think we'd all like to know that reans!

 

[Deleted member 3573J]

His good signings far outweigh the bad ones, so I don't really see the point of this. I'd actually say Saville and Clarke are his only really poor signings so far in two years, so not bad going.

 

[westside wolf]

All managers make mistakes with signings, but probably there are more mistakes with managers who have to shop at Pound Shop, as opposed to Harrods.

Even Sir Alex Ferguson made some truly appalling purchases for Man Utd with the likes of Bebe, Obertan, Djemba-Djemba etc etc

 

[moseleyite]

I interpret it that SM and JM establish the budget and other criteria (preferred age profile etc) and with Board approval I imagine, and KJ (and KT) has to operate within that and they bring recommendations to the Board for their approval before pursuing the offer etc - and in that context SM/JM/Board has quite possibly never said no to any recommendation. What's so complicated about that?

That sounds reasonable. I really don't see any deliberate obfuscating of the way we work.

So its straightforward...............why aren't we getting players in then?

Well, that's a separate question altogether isn't it? Just because Codsall can layout what seems like a not-entirely-unreasonable system (I don't imagine it's too different at other clubs) it doesn't mean that the system will work or produce results. There are any number of reasons which have been chewed over numerous time here: lack of funds? comparatively poor wages? perception of the club? geographic location? right players not available? loans being guaranteed starting places?

Whatever the cause, I don't think the system is that confusing although I agree that where the duties of KJ/KT overlap is less than clear.

 

[Skrilla]

KJ out :goodnight:

 

[Oh When the Wolves]

He is questioned, just not dramatically yet. So far his errors are:

- not signing an adequate striker in league one as cover - he got away with this as clarke was not satisfactory

- failure to identify left wing cover last season. Should sako have been injured more, this would have cost us dearly.

- failure to identify a replacement CAM once he didn't want to give jacobs a proper chance

- changing the back 4 so much around november leading to a horrendous month

- signing george saville and rowe, and persisting with them longer than neccesary

- failure to sign an adequate back up striker last season

and the biggest one of all:

- lack of consistency at making good substitutions , whether that be personnel or the timing of subs.

Despite all the above, he has still improved us, but whether he is anything other than a lower end champ - top end league 1 manager will be tested in the next 2 seasons.

 

[Wednesbury Wolf]

He is questioned, just not dramatically yet. So far his errors are:

- not signing an adequate striker in league one as cover - he got away with this as clarke was not satisfactory

- failure to identify left wing cover last season. Should sako have been injured more, this would have cost us dearly.

- failure to identify a replacement CAM once he didn't want to give jacobs a proper chance

- changing the back 4 so much around november leading to a horrendous month

- signing george saville and rowe, and persisting with them longer than neccesary

- failure to sign an adequate back up striker last season

and the biggest one of all:

- lack of consistency at making good substitutions , whether that be personnel or the timing of subs.

Despite all the above, he has still improved us, but whether he is anything other than a lower end champ - top end league 1 manager will be tested in the next 2 seasons.

If we finish below half way he won't be here for 2 seasons.

 

[Corporate Wolf]

Or more pertinently when do we get to find out what in the name of Lord God and Sonny Jesus are we paying Kevin Thelwell to do?

Nail on the head :goodnight:

 

[reanswolf]

I agree with some of those JW, but I think he uses subs quite well and doesn't dither for 85 minutes like some ex-managers. If something aint working he changes it quickly.

 

[Oh When the Wolves]

I agree with some of those JW, but I think he uses subs quite well and doesn't dither for 85 minutes like some ex-managers. If something aint working he changes it quickly.

There were times last year though when our midfield was crying out for fresh legs and it didn't happen until 80 mins.

He can make changes for tactical reasons e.g. hause at boro but think he struggles more with tiredness issues and realising when teams are getting on top of us

 

[The_Blade]

You can only change a game with what you have on the bench. Sometimes the personnel probably won't make a difference. I would be putting Thelwell and Moxey under pressure before Kenny. Where are the reinforcements?

 

[FLEET WOLF]

You can only change a game with what you have on the bench. Sometimes the personnel probably won't make a difference. I would be putting Thelwell and Moxey under pressure before Kenny. Where are the reinforcements?

I agree. What exactly does Thelwell do?

 

[Arky_R]

You can only change a game with what you have on the bench. Sometimes the personnel probably won't make a difference. I would be putting Thelwell and Moxey under pressure before Kenny. Where are the reinforcements?

Absolutely! Its depressing all this


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Woburn Wolf]

I wrote a long post a couple of weeks ago showing how Jackett's net transfer spend with us is actually slightly negative. He has also had to oversee a drastic cut in the wage bill (around £7m per year since he joined) so to have brought us the success he has shows what an excellent job he has done so far.

In terms of individual transfers, it's pretty straightforward to identify which ones will have been 'Jackett-led' signings based on either his previous experience of managing them or his comments about how he had previously tried to sign them whilst at Millwall. It also, however, needs to be remembered that we changed our whole footballing and recruitment model so it was no longer the sole responsibility of the Head Coach. The days of when Mick would appoint his own scouts has gone so I can't imagine for one second that it was Kenny who came up with the initial recommendation of RVLP.

Anyway, here's my best estimate of the breakdown of our transfer activity:

Jackett-led/influenced signings: Ricketts (success), Henry (success), McDonald (success), Saville (failure), Afobe (success).

Recruitment Team (Thelwell et co) led: RVLP (mixed), Hause (success), Coady (unknown), Dicko (hit)

Unknown: Jacobs (Success), Rowe (injured), Wallace (unknown); Graham (mixed), Golbourne (Success), Sagbo (flop), Kuszchak (mixed), Clarke (flop).

The two things that really stand out to me are:

1). Jackett's success to failure ratio in the transfer market is far higher than that of his predecessors. Especially taking into account the relative lack of resource/wages at his disposal compared to say McCarthy and Solbakken.

2). There's not that many successful signings that I could categorically look back and say it was purely due to creative scouting or recruitment on behalf of the Recruitment Team. Possibly Dicko who was obviously identified the year before.

I agree with your conclusions Tring but would suggest a couple of changes to those you attribute signings to as follows. I have it on good authority that Savill was a Thelwell led signing and I would attribute Golbourne to KJ. I remember him saying at the time Golbourne was signed that he had been tracking him for a while. I am aware of other potentially good additions that KJ wanted to sign but they did not happen. In general I think that KJ's judgement is excellent whilst accepting as others have said that no manager gets it right all the time. Even SAF signed some duds.

 

[Wolves in Limerick]

Tring personally I would agree with 75% to 80% of what you say but as always a very well structured argument.

 

[CodsallWolf]

So its straightforward...............why aren't we getting players in then?

Well we've got 2 in this summer and I imagine the club is collectively working within the agreed criteria to get more in. Perhaps you should join the Board and sit in the corner throwing your toys around and also encourage the Board to focus their efforts on ensuring a coherent and transparent communication strategy with its fans on transfer matters and also staff performance mangement. I'm not sure it's in the club's interests to be completely transparent on it's transfer strategy. You need to find a nother hobby I think.

 

[goldenwolf69]

If you have £30 for your weekly shop you would probably go bargain hunting at Lidl or Aldi and Iceland.
If you have £150 you would probably go to Marks & Spencers. Waitrose or Sainsburys looking for quality products.

KJ has to make do with the limited funds, restrictive wage limits and an incompetent recruitment team.

The only person who needs to be questioned on his decision making at Wolves is Steve Morgan.

 

[Big Nosed Wolf]

He will question himself and be 'questioned' at every meeting they have at the 'committee' meetings now in operation according to CEO.

What is futile is holding him, and only him, accountable for duds signed.Not only is it futile but unfair to scapegoat him considering the SQ.

 

[NewarkWolf]

Kenny does love s central midfielder though! He just can't stop buying them.

 

[northnorfolkwolf]

When he $$$$s up! So far he has had 2 pretty decent seasons and there is no reason to believe we won't be up there again this time.

 

[reanswolf]

Well we've got 2 in this summer and I imagine the club is collectively working within the agreed criteria to get more in. Perhaps you should join the Board and sit in the corner throwing your toys around and also encourage the Board to focus their efforts on ensuring a coherent and transparent communication strategy with its fans on transfer matters and also staff performance mangement. I'm not sure it's in the club's interests to be completely transparent on it's transfer strategy. You need to find a nother hobby I think.

Hmm. Thanks for that incisive and revealing guidance Codsall.

I suspect your related to Jez with that automatically warming and customer-centred attitude

 

[Fifty Niner]

I was thinking about our Mr Thelwell. We hardly do any business in the transfer market so presumably he justifies his wages by development of the footballing side? Anyone read his book Coaching the European 3-5-2. Bit old now mind you.

 

[Skrilla]

If you have £30 for your weekly shop you would probably go bargain hunting at Lidl or Aldi and Iceland.
If you have £150 you would probably go to Marks & Spencers. Waitrose or Sainsburys looking for quality products.

KJ has to make do with the limited funds, restrictive wage limits and an incompetent recruitment team.

The only person who needs to be questioned on his decision making at Wolves is Steve Morgan.

I get the feeling this is the case, Morgan doesn't want to have to dig into his own pockets. I honestly cannot see any other reason why we would be wasting time on finding the right players, it doesn't take 3 months. If KJ gets us promoted this year without bringing in a left winger and striker that isn't crap, it would be a miracle. The fact KMac still hasn't signed his contract shows just how much he has tightened the purse strings.

 

[clifs]

If you have £30 for your weekly shop you would probably go bargain hunting at Lidl or Aldi and Iceland.
If you have £150 you would probably go to Marks & Spencers. Waitrose or Sainsburys looking for quality products.

KJ has to make do with the limited funds, restrictive wage limits and an incompetent recruitment team.

The only person who needs to be questioned on his decision making at Wolves is Steve Morgan.

My opinion too. He swans around owning the club I love without putting his hand in his pocket.