What happened to the counter attack?

[Ned]

The lethal breaks which we became known and revered for have completely vanished from our game. Why? I’m not buying that it’s because teams expect it because we still spend most of our game defending deep and allowing the opposition to keep the ball.

We’ve always sacrificed possession but would spring to life as soon as we won the ball back with fast passes and brave runs. This has, again, vanished.

Is this to do with our new “possession based approach” where we still give teams the ball and still defend in our shape but don’t look to break, instead slowing the game down and opting to pass along the back line more? Or are the players burned out/not good enough as a sum of the parts?

 

[KBWWFC]

The lethal breaks which we became known and revered for have completely vanished from our game. Why? I’m not buying that it’s because teams expect it because we still spend most of our game defending deep and allowing the opposition to keep the ball.

We’ve always sacrificed possession but would spring to life as soon as we won the ball back with fast passes and brave runs. This has, again, vanished.

Is this to do with our new “possession based approach” where we still give teams the ball and still defend in our shape but don’t look to break, instead slowing the game down and opting to pass along the back line more? Or are the players burned out/not good enough as a sum of the parts?

Nuno left his *******s at Wembley and we've regressed ever since.

 

[lobodelsur]

Good question. One brought to the fore last night when we were in a 5 v 3 attacking position (one we can only have dreamt about before) and it was clear that the players had no idea how to use the space let alone the numerical advantage.

 

[Titch]

They went when we sold Jota and Doherty and replaced them with Silva and Semado

 

[Deleted member 11332]

They went when we sold Jota and Doherty and replaced them with Silva and Semado

Just Jota. He and Jiminez used to basically be our counter attack.

 

[Contrarian]

They went when we sold Jota and Doherty and replaced them with Silva and Semado

Watching those "Season summary" videos on YT of our first 2 seasons, leads me to think we have changed more than I realised. Because we did counter attack with pace and precision. Of course it didn't always work, but there are so many memorable moments when it did, back then. One touch football. Swinging the ball across field at *speed*. Enough to fill an hour of highlights! And from this season you'd be lucky to get 5 minutes.

Anyway, thing is that Jota must be there in 80% of the good bits. I think we miss him more than we dare admit.

 

[Contrarian]

Just Jota. He and Jiminez used to basically be our counter attack.

Cav and even Bonitini and Costa, Douglas and Doherty helped out in the Championship. If we could find the Premier League equivalent of Cav, it would be so good! At Fulham, he is as inconsistent as he was here. That style, panache and swagger he had on a good day. If we could get that again. Neto has it but doesn't bring other players in like Cav did. Neto is one-and-a-bit dimensional. Traore is one-dimensional.

 

[Deleted member 11332]

Cav and even Bonitini and Costa, Douglas and Doherty helped out in the Championship. If we could find the Premier League equivalent of Cav, it would be so good! At Fulham, he is as inconsistent as he was here. That style, panache and swagger he had on a good day. If we could get that again. Neto has it but doesn't bring other players in like Cav did. Neto is one-and-a-bit dimensional. Traore is one-dimensional.

We were awesome to watch in the championship but we weren't really a counter side. We changed to the counter when we went 352 and that partnership up top was absolutely glorious.

 

[Sheriff Woody]

Out of all the *******s Robbie Savage spouted last night he did make one salient point in the first half.

We’d come to contain. We were playing with what was effectively 9 players and Patricio behind the ball, we were struggling to get out against a very good City team. Every time one of City’s attacks broke down we basically gifted the ball back to them without them having to break a sweat. Rarely did we gain any territory and rarely did any of their players have to face their own goal. All of our play was 5 or 10 yard passes to feet. Most of them were backwards.

One of Traore or Neto were having to come deep to even get a sniff of the ball. City were pressing high and aggressively, their midfield and attackers basically on top of each other on the edge of our box and their defenders on the half way line. That high line from City’s defenders should’ve been the one thing we could take advantage of with the pace of Neto and Traore.

Why are we not having Traore and/or Neto high up the pitch, why are we not asking the likes of Neves to at least think about trying to drop the ball in behind the defenders for Adama and Pedro to run on to and stretch the game?

Yeah it’s agricultural, yes it’s not exactly total football but neither is 9 men behind the ball trying to contain wave after wave of attack. We weren’t even giving City anything to think about.

This City team, playing the way that they are now are probably the best team we’ve faced in the Premier League. I can only think of Arsenal with Henry in his pomp that came close. We weren’t going to out pass them, we weren’t going to out press them. The one thing we do have is an absolute bucket full of pace up front, Traore is probably the quickest player in the league so why not use it to our advantage?

 

[Wall heath Wanderer]

It became too predictable, Nuno saw this and hatched is plan, a truly wonderful one at that.
First he made a statement about more possession based and attacking play, them messed around with the formation and personnel a bit to get people wondering about such a change, all the time drilling and talking to the team in secret ready to unveil the super tactic which is counter-defend!

 

[wwbug]

Good question. One brought to the fore last night when we were in a 5 v 3 attacking position (one we can only have dreamt about before) and it was clear that the players had no idea how to use the space let alone the numerical advantage.

And it looks as if they spend all morning practicing defensive position, then lunch then all afternoon on defensive blocking , a cup of tea , ten minutes on attacking strategy and off home. I really can’t believe they spend time on full bodied attacking.

 

[goldeneyed]

Jota and Jiminez were brilliant together on counter attacks...need I say more. SIlva still way off, Jose too static and so far unconvincing, Neto potentilly brilliant but still only 20 and learning, Traore - who knows what you are going to get but hopeless in front of goal and will miss 9 out of 10 opportunities. The two Js were tuned in to each other - crazy to sell Jota.

 

[RJs Tankard]

They went when we sold Jota and Doherty and replaced them with Silva and Semado

Yep. Spot on.

 

[Wulve5]

Jota and Jiminez were brilliant together on counter attacks...need I say more. SIlva still way off, Jose too static and so far unconvincing, Neto potentilly brilliant but still only 20 and learning, Traore - who knows what you are going to get but hopeless in front of goal and will miss 9 out of 10 opportunities. The two Js were tuned in to each other - crazy to sell Jota.

I agree would love jota to have stayed ,but no chance once Liverpool came in for him.
He won’t be the last either ,think we need to realise where we sit in the food chain . Top 6 clubs come in for our players with genuine offers they’ll be off that’s just fact.
We have to then do what Leicester have done and sell at high prices and replace with quality not kids for the future.

 

[The Wolf In The North]

Counter attack worked because the wing backs played on the halfway line and Jota made clever runs into space. Add Jimenez, and it meant Coady, Neves and Moutinho usually had three or four options at any time, enabling them to play quicker forward balls.

We now play deeper, have no Jota, and no clever, bullish striker.

And then we have Traore and Neto. I love both of them like a comfortable pair of slippers, but neither of them seem inclined to use their pace to run onto balls played into space, Adama especially. They want the ball to feet so they can dribble. Which is exciting when it works, but it just doesn't work enough.

I've bemoaned Moutinho being reluctant to play the ball forward, a dozen times, but in fairness to him, the players ahead of him really don't make it easy for him. With their rapidity, Neto and Adama should be playing on the shoulder of the defenders like Vardy does, and they'd be absolute terrors.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

Replacing players like jota Bennett Vinagre Doherty who knew our system inside out will take time which is why nuno wanted to change system

 

[Stoichkov]

don't disagree with all of the above but traore must absolutely drive nuno crazy. he has such power and pace yet consistently fails to deliver

couldn't believe how we spurned the 5 v 3 attack. not necessarily his fault that one, but overall he is so frustrating

 

[Highlandwolf2]

Our tactics (whatever they are) are shocking. Apart from Crystal Palace we must be the most boring team in the PL. Over and out Nuno..... perhaps.

 

[Wednesbury Wolf]

Shouldn't the thread title be - What happened to the attack ?

 

[tamwolf]

It disappeared when we stopped pressing. When our counter attacking was good, we would use our shape to force teams into areas where we could press the ball in good positions (usually wide), press quickly and then break with the momentum of the press.

The last two seasons we have done this less and less. Now we just retreat into our own half when we lose the ball and stay in a shape shuffling from side to side. It means when we do get the ball, it is usually in a deep position, and we are on the back foot and not in a place to counter.

 

[sedgwolf1980]

Jota and Jimenez really didn’t play as a pair as much as is being made out.

On the flip side however, I do think that 352 formation, with those 2 up top, which we played early 2019 was the best we have ever looked under Nuno. It’s why I would love to see us go 4-3–1-2 next season, as with the right players it could be lethal. New centre half inperative.

 

[steve vena]

What I find odd is how good we seemed to have been coached by nuno and the technical staff 18-24 months ago. Dynamic counter attack, rock solid defence etc. In a year its gone. Can't pass can't score can't defend. Its barmy when you think about it. Staggering infact.

 

[MasWolf]

Our whole approach this season has been slow and cumbersome. I don't know if it has anything to do with the sales of Jota and Doc. I have noticed however then when we retrieve possession from a corner, Rui is slow to distribute. You'd think with the pace of Neto and Adama it would be drilled into the players to get the ball out to them as quickly as possible.

We're also much slower in moving the ball up the pitch. I found that we always passed back and sideways a little, but this season it must be at an all time high.

 

[Ewok vs Wolf]

The current forward players don't connect very well.

 

[Oh When the Wolves]

Christ it’s doom and gloom on here

 

[Ned]

I think the idea of possession has meant we play slower when we have the ball now. All that happens is it allows teams more time to close us down, to get in shape and to mark our free men.

We are still playing the same way in defence, maybe even deeper, but aren’t showing enough energy in getting back up the field when we get the ball back.

I’d love to see us play 15 yards further up the pitch, pressing from the front and actually look like we want to win the ball back instead of waiting until they give us the ball.

 

[Pagey]

In reply to the title, I got away with it. Any one wanna buy any fags, whisky or a 1970s cash register?

Don't tell Pwolf, he thinks it was @SuperGran and @WickedWolfie

 

[Flump]

What I find odd is how good we seemed to have been coached by nuno and the technical staff 18-24 months ago. Dynamic counter attack, rock solid defence etc. In a year its gone. Can't pass can't score can't defend. Its barmy when you think about it. Staggering infact.

Can't pass, can't score, can't defend?

There was me thinking that apart from possibly the best team in the world, we'd got really good results recently. Look beyond 1 game

 

[SuperGran]

In reply to the title, I got away with it. Any one wanna buy any fags, whisky or a 1970s cash register?

Don't tell Pwolf, he thinks it was @SuperGran and @WickedWolfie

The truth will out

 

[glorybox]

don't disagree with all of the above but traore must absolutely drive nuno crazy. he has such power and pace yet consistently fails to deliver

couldn't believe how we spurned the 5 v 3 attack. not necessarily his fault that one, but overall he is so frustrating

He actually got in moutinhos way so I disagree

 

[Polish Wolf]

There's a rule in every business that the way the team performs and behaves is a reflection of the approach of the the boss (the manager).

Nuno when he came here, he came with clear plan. We played on the front foot. We feared nobody, not only in Championship (which was expected with our squad) but when we came to PL too. Yes we could sacrifice possession against most of the teams but we were deadly on the counter. You watched us and believed we could win every game - it is because the team also believed and that is because the manager believed too.

Something - the pandemic, personal things, run of bad results, something behind the scenes that we don't know about - happened and Nuno is not the same Nuno that took the charge here. He is retreating to his comfort zone which is an ultra-defensive approach. We are still hard to beat (it took City 80 minutes to break us down) and we will be.

But recently, Wolves youtube channel published highlights of the Newcastle away game in our 1st season in Prem. Boy, when we broke we broke with such pace and power that it visibly frightened them. We won 2-1 in the last action of the match, because Jota and Doherty still believed we are more than good enough to win it.

It doesn't happen anymore. Our attacks are half-hearted. They lack belief first and foremost that something positive may happen. It's mostly give the ball to Neto or Traore and hope something will happen and it doesn't in most cases.

I love Nuno and want him to stay with us for long years, but he must change first and foremost. There's way too much negativity about our setup and approach nowadays. That hurts the team. He can still change that - the way the team is still resilient when we chase the score shows there's still some fire burning in their hearts. But will he change?

 

[Greeno]

Out of all the *******s Robbie Savage spouted last night he did make one salient point in the first half.

We’d come to contain. We were playing with what was effectively 9 players and Patricio behind the ball, we were struggling to get out against a very good City team. Every time one of City’s attacks broke down we basically gifted the ball back to them without them having to break a sweat. Rarely did we gain any territory and rarely did any of their players have to face their own goal. All of our play was 5 or 10 yard passes to feet. Most of them were backwards.

One of Traore or Neto were having to come deep to even get a sniff of the ball. City were pressing high and aggressively, their midfield and attackers basically on top of each other on the edge of our box and their defenders on the half way line. That high line from City’s defenders should’ve been the one thing we could take advantage of with the pace of Neto and Traore.

Why are we not having Traore and/or Neto high up the pitch, why are we not asking the likes of Neves to at least think about trying to drop the ball in behind the defenders for Adama and Pedro to run on to and stretch the game?

Yeah it’s agricultural, yes it’s not exactly total football but neither is 9 men behind the ball trying to contain wave after wave of attack. We weren’t even giving City anything to think about.

This City team, playing the way that they are now are probably the best team we’ve faced in the Premier League. I can only think of Arsenal with Henry in his pomp that came close. We weren’t going to out pass them, we weren’t going to out press them. The one thing we do have is an absolute bucket full of pace up front, Traore is probably the quickest player in the league so why not use it to our advantage?

Loads of us have posted this and I think we can all see it.

I suppose, Traore couldn't sprint in behind EVERY time we get the ball (for 90 minutes)... it's just not possible with his explosive-ness.. but it should be an option, at least.

If you pinned our defensive positions to be pin board, City would just pin theirs in our half and that happened, we just couldn't get out... we get them up the pitch, we get up the pitch ourselves. That's about showing some *******s.

 

[Howler]

Purpose, we used to counter-attack with it - now we often get 20 yards out on a counter-attack then slow down, pass the ball sideways then inevitably backwards and ruin the entire counter-attack.

 

[Denpar]

I was thinking only the other day that most of our counter attacks came because we consistently used to set little traps in order to gain possession, which were then turned into rapid counter attacks. In the main, these used to happen on the left hand side and just outside the corner of the penalty area. They usually involved a combination of Neves, Jota, and Jimenez.. We haven't really come close to replicating this in the current season.

 

[Ned]

We play at a much slower tempo, a lot of our game is almost played like basketball in that we let them have the ball, take a turn to score and then when they misplace a cross or hit row z we take our turn to have the ball. I’m ok with this but we need mobility in the spine to actually do something with the ball when we do have it. If we are to have possession and still be a threat then the passing need to suddenly have an injection of pace when we get into the opposition half.

 

[Fifty Niner]

They went when we sold Jota and Doherty and replaced them with Silva and Semado

They relied heavily on Jimmenez and Jota and Doc as the main focus of counter attack. Raul wasn’t in great form before his injury and the new players were not going to make any immediate impact. Nuno was also very explicit that we needed to adapt, be less predictable, more creative from other areas, score more goals, keep the ball better etc. But, at the moment, it look like we are still trying to play the same way we did before.

 

[Northampton_wolf]

I can answer this is one word.

Adama




But trufully without jota/jimenez (skilful heads up runners, eye for a pass, nouse for running in behind)

Adama inevitably gets the ball on the counter attack, fluffs his pass (chooses the wrong one) or runs into cul de sacs.

It needs to be neto/podence gets the ball passes to adama to finish the chance

 

[Nivada]

I can answer this is one word.

Adama




But trufully without jota/jimenez (skilful heads up runners, eye for a pass, nouse for running in behind)

Adama inevitably gets the ball on the counter attack, fluffs his pass (chooses the wrong one) or runs into cul de sacs.

It needs to be neto/podence gets the ball passes to adama to finish the chance

You're gonna get criticized for saying that but I think you're at the very least partly right, you look at our mad counters in 2018/19 and it all comes together through slick and confident passers of the ball, Traore tries to take on the world.

 

[Black Country Wanderer]

A one word answer to this, Raul
Virtually every fast counter involved him and his ability to see the pass and keep moving
The 2 we scored against City last season are great examples,both coming from winning the ball, feed Raul, he goes on a run and feeds Traore with excellent through balls
This season Traore misses those chances if he ever gets them again,Neto and Traore feel they have to beat 3/4 players every time instead of chosing the simple pass
All that said,we dont press like we used to,you see it briefly in games,but its like first 15 minutes of the second half usually, then slowly drop deeper especially if we score
When we do press higher we look so much better ,and chances come, but we never sustain it

 

[MasWolf]

A one word answer to this, Raul
Virtually every fast counter involved him and his ability to see the pass and keep moving
The 2 we scored against City last season are great examples,both coming from winning the ball, feed Raul, he goes on a run and feeds Traore with excellent through balls
This season Traore misses those chances if he ever gets them again,Neto and Traore feel they have to beat 3/4 players every time instead of chosing the simple pass
All that said,we dont press like we used to,you see it briefly in games,but its like first 15 minutes of the second half usually, then slowly drop deeper especially if we score
When we do press higher we look so much better ,and chances come, but we never sustain it

I'm inclined to agree with you about Raul, however we weren't exactly doing so great with him in the team this season pre Arsenal