The sordid Hunt

[UEAwolf]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2012/apr/24/news-corp-leveson-inquiry-jeremy-hunt


Can't believe he still hasn't quit.

 

[Pengwern]

By name and by nature, yet Dave says he defends him.

The Murdochs have had power ever since Maggie's secret meeting with Rupe in '79 just before he got the nod for the Times group; he of course went on to flag wave throughout the Thatcher Revolution.

Corruption has long since overcome democracy.

 

[UEAwolf]

And extolling he virtues of Rupert Murdoch on his own MP website - even when he was in charge of reviewing the BSKYB deal.

Quite shocking really.

 

[derbyrameater]

seems like a sack of worms is opening up not just the condems but also New labour shysters.

 

[Pengwern]

Murdoch Snr answered the Leveson QC's question about his takeover of the Times group "Did you have the will to smash the trade unions" with "I wouldn't ay I had the will but I had the desire!", which certainly helps explain the lie upon lie spun by the media during the Miner's Strike.

Nick Davies in today's Guardian has contextualised the emails released about Hunt within the chronology which includes Cameron's Christmas meeting with Murdoch Jnr, after which the Sun turned against the Tweedledee Party.

 

[Deleted member LP 3925]

I thought Stephen had been having it away with Ethel when I read this title.

 

[Pengwern]

I loved the Dennis Skinner comment in the Commons today after Hunt kept name-dropping his permanent adviser at the Dispatch Box;

"When rich boys have a problem, they sack the servant!"

 

[Apocalypse Now]

Dennis has always been entertaining.

 

[Mister Rabbit]

The sooner Murdoch drops dead the better.

 

[Pengwern]

Hunt has now sacked his servant, or rather forced him to resign. Skinner is a prophet!

 

[Pengwern]

More on Hunt and Cameron's corruption:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/apr/25/jeremy-hunt-news-corp-bskyb

 

[Jungleee]

Was at the Houses of Parliament last night and the Labour MPs were buzzing!

 

[derbyrameater]

sounded like Murdoch was given a very easy ride this morning, he was let off the hook time and time again.

Has the QC had his feathers clipped?

 

[BlahBlah]

I thought they got stuck into him more today than yesterday, and Jay was a bit more biting.

The truth will come at the end when they compare all the testimonies...then say which one's they believed.

 

[derbyrameater]

He got stuck in on a subject then moved onto to another without going after murdoch to get any real detail, IMO.

 

[Pengwern]

Radio 4 interview with an insider quoted him as saying that permanent civil servants have habitually advised ministers to "think through how it will play with the Murdoch press" for 30 years about every single policy, press release or decision.

Adam Smith has resigned because of the convention that everything done under a Minister must be deniable, even thought the Minister always sets the direction of travel and objectives, with a clarification that "its up to you how you achieve this but I don't want to know the detail".

The mutual back-scratching and dependence between the political class that launched and subsequently allowed no alternative to the Thatcher revolution to be discussed publicly contrasts sharply with the rules for the French Presidential elections, under which equal airtime must go to any candidate. That's how Melenchon and Le Pen can get 30% of the vote between them by pointing to the need to dump the 'free market'.

Its simply not allowed here courtesy of the tie-up between media and the political representatives of international capital.

 

[Apocalypse Now]

So are you saying the mandarins in Whitehall are the "political representatives of international capital"? Do we not have a similar protocol in this country with regard to equal airtime - I think you'll find we do.

Also did the Guardian support Thatcher, or The Mirror? Being at the University at the time where there was much debate, to say there was no public debate is sheer nonsense.

 

[derbyrameater]

So are you saying the mandarins in Whitehall are the "political representatives of international capital"? Do we not have a similar protocol in this country with regard to equal airtime - I think you'll find we do.

Also did the Guardian support Thatcher, or The Mirror? Being at the University at the time where there was much debate, to say there was no public debate is sheer nonsense.

How the system is manipulated but the illusion of democracy pervades. A few years ago the former ambassador to Uzbekistan exposed the UK complicity in torture, he was then sacked and stood against Straw in Blackburn, http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2010/04/blackburn_counc/

.."Bushra Irfan has erected a large election poster in her own garden of her own property. Within three hours, several men from Blackburn council arrived to take it down on the grounds Bushra did not have planning permission to erect a hoarding.
What speed, and what an incredibly efficient council!
Election advertising is in fact exempt from planning permission regulations as class E of schedule 1 of The Town and Country Planning (Control of Advertisements) (England) Regulations 2007 which exempts:"..


.."However that won’t stop Blackburn Council, which has no concern at all for the law when it comes to organising Jack Straw election victories. I still recall their blank refusal to allow me the use of public rooms for election meetings when I stood against Jack Straw.

I pointed out to the council electoral administrators that not only did candidates have a right to public rooms for meetings, but the returning officer had a legal obligation to maintain a register of such rooms in state schools and community centres, and to make the list available to candidates at any reasonable time. The council simply replied “We don’t do that in Blackburn”.

When I telephoned the Electoral Commission to complain, they said enforcement of the law was the job of the local returning officer. When I told them that it was the returning officer I wished to complain about, they said there was no way to do that."..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/apr/05/bbc-london-mayor-election-coverage

.."The BBC maintains that its guidelines only require it to give airtime to candidates from parties with a track record in a previous relevant election, or with clear evidence of support in the polls. London Tonight, the flagship London ITV I programme presented by Alistair Stewart has also decided that only the four candidates Johnson, Livingstone, Paddick and Jones should appear in an hour long programme on 24 April. ITV said they were conforming to the standards of the Ofcom code and would work to ensure other candidates also received a chance to put over their views in other formats.

The Ofcom guidelines state: "Due weight must be given to the coverage of major parties during the election period. Broadcasters must also consider giving appropriate coverage to other parties and independent candidates with significant views and perspectives."

http://www.broadcastersliaisongroup.org.uk/about.html

Party Election Broadcasts (PEBs), which are offered to qualifying political parties, registered with the Electoral Commission, in the run-up to elections.

Party Political Broadcasts (PPBs), which are offered to the main political parties each year, usually around the autumn party conference season and around the time of the Queen's Speech.

Budget Broadcasts, which are offered at the time of the Chancellor of the Exchequer's Budget statement.

Ministerial Broadcasts, which, in exceptional circumstance, are offered to the government followed by responses by the main opposition parties.

The Ofcom Broadcasting Code defines the main parties as: The Conservatives, Labour and the Liberal Democrats. In Scotland , the SNP is also included as is Plaid in Wales . In Northern Ireland the main political parties are the DUP, Sinn Fein, the SDLP and the Ulster Unionists."

 

[BlahBlah]

He got stuck in on a subject then moved onto to another without going after murdoch to get any real detail, IMO.

I thought it was really interesting....if you read the transcripts then you'll see they covered an awful lot and they could really have had Murdoch up there for a week and still not make a dent in 50 years of subterfuge.
Jay's only intention was to get Murdoch's answers on the record, under oath....then his forensic analysis (which he's good at) will come later.
I thought he did well to extract so much because Murdoch was obviously pausing and rambling as much as possible to avoid giving straight answers.....but they can say quite reasonably that they gave him a fair chance, lots of time and didn't put him under duress.

The one thing they really missed asking him about were the Camillagate tapes (the old Prince Charles tampax thing), which is a big thing in Australia.
The Sun could not break this story because it was based on an illegal act and they would have been legally culpable in the UK.
The story was mysteriously broken in a Murdoch Australian paper, then the British press were able to freely report that story, because they were just reporting "news".
That would have smashed his defence that the "problems" are isolated within the UK sector and not the rest of NewsCorp worldwide.

 

[derbyrameater]

I thought it was really interesting....if you read the transcripts then you'll see they covered an awful lot and they could really have had Murdoch up there for a week and still not make a dent in 50 years of subterfuge.
Jay's only intention was to get Murdoch's answers on the record, under oath....then his forensic analysis (which he's good at) will come later.

Unless they really are after murdoch when it comes to the crunch I`ve seen too many whitewashes over the years.

I thought he did well to extract so much because Murdoch was obviously pausing and rambling as much as possible to avoid giving straight answers.....but they can say quite reasonably that they gave him a fair chance, lots of time and didn't put him under duress.

The one thing they really missed asking him about were the Camillagate tapes (the old Prince Charles tampax thing), which is a big thing in Australia.
The Sun could not break this story because it was based on an illegal act and they would have been legally culpable in the UK.
The story was mysteriously broken in a Murdoch Australian paper, then the British press were able to freely report that story, because they were just reporting "news".
That would have smashed his defence that the "problems" are isolated within the UK sector and not the rest of NewsCorp worldwide.

murdochs playing for time belonged in the Greed League, now there`s a connection.

 

[Pengwern]

How the system is manipulated but the illusion of democracy pervades. A few years ago the former ambassador to Uzbekistan exposed the UK complicity in torture, he was then sacked and stood against Straw in Blackburn, http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2010/04/blackburn_counc/

.."Bushra Irfan has erected a large election poster in her own garden of her own property. Within three hours, several men from Blackburn council arrived to take it down on the grounds Bushra did not have planning permission to erect a hoarding.
What speed, and what an incredibly efficient council!
Election advertising is in fact exempt from planning permission regulations as class E of schedule 1 of The Town and Country Planning (Control of Advertisements) (England) Regulations 2007 which exempts:"..


.."However that won’t stop Blackburn Council, which has no concern at all for the law when it comes to organising Jack Straw election victories. I still recall their blank refusal to allow me the use of public rooms for election meetings when I stood against Jack Straw.

I pointed out to the council electoral administrators that not only did candidates have a right to public rooms for meetings, but the returning officer had a legal obligation to maintain a register of such rooms in state schools and community centres, and to make the list available to candidates at any reasonable time. The council simply replied “We don’t do that in Blackburnâ€.

When I telephoned the Electoral Commission to complain, they said enforcement of the law was the job of the local returning officer. When I told them that it was the returning officer I wished to complain about, they said there was no way to do that."..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/apr/05/bbc-london-mayor-election-coverage

.."The BBC maintains that its guidelines only require it to give airtime to candidates from parties with a track record in a previous relevant election, or with clear evidence of support in the polls. London Tonight, the flagship London ITV I programme presented by Alistair Stewart has also decided that only the four candidates Johnson, Livingstone, Paddick and Jones should appear in an hour long programme on 24 April. ITV said they were conforming to the standards of the Ofcom code and would work to ensure other candidates also received a chance to put over their views in other formats.

The Ofcom guidelines state: "Due weight must be given to the coverage of major parties during the election period. Broadcasters must also consider giving appropriate coverage to other parties and independent candidates with significant views and perspectives."

http://www.broadcastersliaisongroup.org.uk/about.html

Party Election Broadcasts (PEBs), which are offered to qualifying political parties, registered with the Electoral Commission, in the run-up to elections.

Party Political Broadcasts (PPBs), which are offered to the main political parties each year, usually around the autumn party conference season and around the time of the Queen's Speech.

Budget Broadcasts, which are offered at the time of the Chancellor of the Exchequer's Budget statement.

Ministerial Broadcasts, which, in exceptional circumstance, are offered to the government followed by responses by the main opposition parties.

The Ofcom Broadcasting Code defines the main parties as: The Conservatives, Labour and the Liberal Democrats. In Scotland , the SNP is also included as is Plaid in Wales . In Northern Ireland the main political parties are the DUP, Sinn Fein, the SDLP and the Ulster Unionists."

Thanks, DRE, for taking the trouble to paint a detailed picture of what is clear to me and thee without such detail. Its funny how the standard of proof required by anti-Left posters is so high for anything which contradicts their world view.

 

[Apocalypse Now]

So the main parties get equal air time - your point is? I have seen party election broadcasts from a broad spectrum of opinion. During the Thatcher years Labour etc would have had air time to argue against her policies - I seem to recall Foot and Kinnock doing an appalling job - so to reiterate, to say that there was no debate is utter utter nonsense.

 

[derbyrameater]

So the main parties get equal air time - your point is? I have seen party election broadcasts from a broad spectrum of opinion. During the Thatcher years Labour etc would have had air time to argue against her policies - I seem to recall Foot and Kinnock doing an appalling job - so to reiterate, to say that there was no debate is utter utter nonsense.

Three parties (who all believe in the same thing) control along with the media what you are allowed to hear on the media, Not the same as All parties.

I notice you have no comment to make on how Murray was allowed to debate the election, and there is a long list.

If the debate is between groups which all share the same ideology what is the purpose of that debate apart from saying my eye candy is better than yours and giving the illusion of `open honest debate` and democracy and they get away with it.

People can only act on the information they have and if that information is controlled we do not have a democracy but an elected dictatorship.

 

[Jonzy54]

I loved the Dennis Skinner comment in the Commons today after Hunt kept name-dropping his permanent adviser at the Dispatch Box;

"When rich boys have a problem, they sack the servant!"

My word I split my sides I laughed that much

 

[Pengwern]

Murdoch, Dacre, the Barclays & the BBC control virtually all public debate in this country & Murdoch's Fox in the USA. That 'Debate' is all about soundbites, point-scoring, trying to look like a leader and talking to 'middle England', whatever that is. Our political culture is increasingly indistinguishable from the USA.

That's why so many people are turned off by politics. Even 25 years ago we had local hustings at election time where all politicians were expected to account to the public on a face to face basis. The last election where there was a real battle of ideas was 1983, but those ideas were lost in a media-led, jingoistic veneration of Thatcher's lucky Falklands War. If anyone ever wants to measure media-led jingoism look at Thatcher poll ratings before that war and then at the election result.

 

[Apocalypse Now]

Three parties (who all believe in the same thing) control along with the media what you are allowed to hear on the media, Not the same as All parties.

I notice you have no comment to make on how Murray was allowed to debate the election, and there is a long list.

If the debate is between groups which all share the same ideology what is the purpose of that debate apart from saying my eye candy is better than yours and giving the illusion of `open honest debate` and democracy and they get away with it.

People can only act on the information they have and if that information is controlled we do not have a democracy but an elected dictatorship.

Are you seriously telling me Foot had the same ideology as Thatcher? If we had to give equal air time to every party who put up candidates either the time each would be measured in minutes or there would be nothing but party election broadcasts for a whole month before the election. I am fairly certain this doesn't happen in France either.

As mentioned previously I have seen broadcasts from many idiots ranging from the National Front to the Communist Party. If they cannot muster any meaningful number of votes they do not deserve to b given the time to peddle their views. The time is better spent by allowing the public to see the differences between the parties who are likely to form the government.

However as you will be aware, in good old anarchism phraseology, it don't matter who you vote for the government always gets in.

 

[derbyrameater]

Are you seriously telling me Foot had the same ideology as Thatcher? If we had to give equal air time to every party who put up candidates either the time each would be measured in minutes or there would be nothing but party election broadcasts for a whole month before the election. I am fairly certain this doesn't happen in France either.

As mentioned previously I have seen broadcasts from many idiots ranging from the National Front to the Communist Party. If they cannot muster any meaningful number of votes they do not deserve to b given the time to peddle their views. The time is better spent by allowing the public to see the differences between the parties who are likely to form the government.

However as you will be aware, in good old anarchism phraseology, it don't matter who you vote for the government always gets in.

Foot supported the formation of a US led NATO and behind the USA in defending a Dictatorship in South Korea.

Supported Thatcher over the Falklands and the attack on the Belgrano.

The media him along with Mp`s portrayed him as a ‘loony lefty’, a boring windbag, KGB stooge and donkey jacket-wearing joke.

Foot was never a socialist. He supported wage restraint, attacked Irish political hunger strikers.

And supported the system.

There you have a conundrum to get the votes you need media coverage but if you only give coverage to those with the votes how will people know about other parties on a large enough scale to change the outcome?

You`ve seen a political broadcast from the Communist party, please who when and where? you hardly ever see a real lefty on QT let alone anything else.

 

[Apocalypse Now]

Quite a few years back the main theme being the system is against us e.g the news reports strikes as bad news but that is only from the view of capitalist because a strike shows workers exerting their power - sound familiar? They also had one in elections for the Welsh Assembly broadcast on 14 April 2011,

Can you tell me what party you think has been denied coverage which would represent socialist views?