The policing of Football fans

[Pengwern]

One of the best articles ever on this - by an ex-police officer, who puts the whole thing in historical context: a continued use of the laws and regulations passed nearly 30 years ago in error, probably deliberate rater than inadvertent error, and in defiance of what we now know to be the facts about Hillsborough. An essential read for all fans:

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...y-manchester-city-bournemouth-police-stewards

 

[Deleted member 4257]

Great read that.
Policing can vary ground to ground, mostly friendly and try the 'banter' approach but some have hate in there eyes. I remember fans in the rocket in Coventry a few seasons ago and police stormed the pub and kicked everyone out for no reason other than we are football fans. Which actually caused issues.
Brentford last week were great, all friendly

 

[Oh When the Wolves]

That fan probably gets a 3 year ban for that too and a criminal record, unless I'm mistaken .

Ludicrous .

 

[RichB]

I think the aim is always for relaxed, friendly and controlled policing... especially West Mids wise nowadays. Unfortunately there are always minority pockets of so called fans who perhaps don't help matters.

I do think that In more recent years within the mids that if you want to go out to enjoy it then it's pretty much easy.

 

[stuj4z]

We have had some proper bad ones. Mostly in Lancashire for some reason.
When you have decent ones and are treated with respect then it helps the situation no end.

 

[k-dog]

Preston away during our season in league one, a scouse friend came to the game with us, he was arrested because he wouldn't go to the train station, he was getting a later train to Liverpool and wanted to head into town on his own, he wasn't a fan of either team.

However if you run onto the pitch I think you deserve to get arrested. There's no need.

 

[RichB]

We have had some proper bad ones. Mostly in Lancashire for some reason.
When you have decent ones and are treated with respect then it helps the situation no end.

Yeah agreed. Weird that certain places are worse than others. I always find locally you can have a good laugh with the coppers to be fair.

 

[RichB]

Preston away during our season in league one, a scouse friend came to the game with us, he was arrested because he wouldn't go to the train station, he was getting a later train to Liverpool and wanted to head into town on his own, he wasn't a fan of either team.

However if you run onto the pitch I think you deserve to get arrested. There's no need.

That's **** poor to be fair. Locally I don't think that would happen. Not sure what grounds there would be If I'm honest.

 

[Jonzy54]

Players need to have it re-affirmed that if you go off the playing area and immediate surrounds and into the crowd you will receive the punishment Sterling did .Fans can still go bonkers and players can celebrate in front of them.
I think it was Bournemouth last year when Everton scored a late goal.Their players rushed towards the crowd who in turn surged forward and some in wheelchairs were overwhelmed.
All it needs is a bit of common sense really.

 

[turner845]

A lot of generalisations in that article and as has already been mentioned policing varies from force to force but also within each force. For example the policing at our home games is different to that at Blues despite both clubs being under the jurisdiction of West Midlands Police. Also from my experience away fans get by related differently to that of home fans but to me that is not a major issue. I also take issue with the point made in the article about common sense and celebrating as in my view any fan who jumps over the fence and out of the stand deserves to be arrested.

 

[Sedgley Gold N Black]

I think the aim is always for relaxed, friendly and controlled policing... especially West Mids wise nowadays. Unfortunately there are always minority pockets of so called fans who perhaps don't help matters.

I do think that In more recent years within the mids that if you want to go out to enjoy it then it's pretty much easy.

WMP are the worst, by a mile.

here's one example....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-39095756

The other year when we were at Blues one of the lads I was with, only about 19 and about 10 stone wet through, got clattered by a copper with his shield running past us as we were walking towards Digbeth on the pavement, as he was getting up, a second came along and knocked him back down. From behind when you don't see it coming can cause a serious injury, nevermind he could have been knocked infront of a passing car. Wouldn't come out the riot van either when I caught up with them to get there numbers as the office in charge said they are "too busy". ****ers.

 

[Peszkywolf]

See that 60 odd year old villa fan last year, copper just whacked him onto the pavement. He was just walking along peacefully, landed on his head.
West mids are pretty bad. Remember 3 years ago them laughing at us and putting on yam yam accents when we asked where they were when a lad was hit with a brick outside the Irish centre.

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

In my experience on the whole, the police want to treat all young male football fans like the minority as hooligans and thugs. As a few have mentioned WMP seem to be up there with the worse especially in local games away. The treatment I have been on the end of at Blues, Villa and Sandwell over the years is scandalous.

 

[Shifnal Wolf]

Eventually at lower level I can see away fans being barred from games, particularly when policing costs outside the ground has to be met by the club and not the local authority, this may sound dramatic but LA's are cutting costs all over the place and clubs at a lower level cannot afford the costs.

Over the years I've read most of the hooligan books and fans all over seem to rate WMP as the worst.

On another note, I find it daft at home when we have local derbies or when Cardiff, Leeds etc come the great lengths the police go to keeping fans apart after the game, why don't they keep them in the ground for 45 minutes serving them more beer and food and just let the decent home fans disappear.

Any stone island clad locals left hanging around can then quickly be identified and dealt with accordingly.

The home traffic will have subsided by then and the away fans can disperse safely.

Just my view.

 

[Essex Wolf]

There's good and bad in all walks of life but in many jobs the bad ones don't always stand out which is the totally opposite when it comes to Policing. Look at the Met PC dancing at the Notting Hill carnival. Great to see. By joining in and making people laugh/smile he will have helped for some break down some of the barriers put up hopefully. However how long will this be remembered before something bad takes place and suddenly all coppers are branded with the same mark and the usual labels thrown at them?

Worst I've ever suffered was at the hands of the South Yorkshire Police who just laid into supporters irrespective to age or what they were doing. It was as if by just being there you therefore must be a thug.

In Essex and only having two major sides in Colchester and Southend crowds were never that big in general but Southend would often attract big away followings purely because it was a large seaside town. When I worked these games it was always with a laid back approach until a situation dictated otherwise but never were we OTT in approach or handling of supporters home or away. Sadly some forces seem very bad and even if change is being made things could stick a while.

 

[Plastic Shrapnel]

Place your bets on Police Forces around the country rating fans for their behaviour and whether the minority of certain people ruin it for the rest of us. How they enjoy certain clubs turning up as they can have a laugh with the supporters and have a relatively decent shift rather than preparing to potentially get a shoe in or spat on by some blithering idiots.

 

[Derby Wolf]

If you read the public order policing guides on the College of Policing (which for one of my undergrad assignments I chose to do) they all state similar things that until a time arises that force or action is required the police are expected to have a visible and friendly presence whilst being easily accessible to assist the public.

A lot of the time this happens, and the police provide a good service most weekends, where I think it fails though is in bigger risk games with interpreted heavy handedness, which I think is because of the visual sight of police in public order uniform. The sight of it puts supporters on edge and a request/order by the police suddenly becomes that bit more intimidatory.

Then there are other occasions I've witnessed where the officer in question is a "*****" such as Coventry (familiar theme) where an officer was winding a friend up saying "all football supporters are animals" and evidently just trying to provoke an arrest. The other big one being two visits to Brammall Lane, South Yorks gave their fans a pass and jumped on ours defending themselves.

I think lastly there's a lot of contempt of club, the Wolves have a reputation and history so police are shorter with lads/fans of Wolves, I suspect we'll see overkill for Saturdays visitors even though they've been quieter for years.

 

[Wonder Boyo]

Players need to have it re-affirmed that if you go off the playing area and immediate surrounds and into the crowd you will receive the punishment Sterling did .Fans can still go bonkers and players can celebrate in front of them.
I think it was Bournemouth last year when Everton scored a late goal.Their players rushed towards the crowd who in turn surged forward and some in wheelchairs were overwhelmed.
All it needs is a bit of common sense really.

To be fair to Sterling, he was only just over the white line of the pitch, it was the excited City fans who came towards him. The stand is very close to the pitch there. Thought it was a very harsh booking considering Charlie Daniels was further off the pitch and right up to the crowd when he scored.

 

[Jonzy54]

In my experience on the whole, the police want to treat all young male football fans like the minority as hooligans and thugs. As a few have mentioned WMP seem to be up there with the worse especially in local games away. The treatment I have been on the end of at Blues, Villa and Sandwell over the years is scandalous.

Not just the young believe me.
A couple of seasons ago I went with a mate to Blues (when we lost 2-1).We had comps in the main stand and when coming out to walk back to New St we got caught up with the Blues fans with just a thin blue (yellow) line between us.It was a bit strange hearing the Wolves yuff calling us Blues scum and wanting to rip our heads off.
When we got to that island it was carnage and it all kicked off.The police were lamping anyone within distance -all were fair game and believe me there were enough idiots to go round .We managed to dodge the bullet but when we got ahead of the Wolves fans we were told to slow down and wait for the main group so we could be herded and further abused.We just carried on regardless.We were smartly dressed displaying no colours but as we were walking to the station we were caught up in the herd them up and treat them all the same mentality.

 

[Jonzy54]

To be fair to Sterling, he was only just over the white line of the pitch, it was the excited City fans who came towards him. The stand is very close to the pitch there. Thought it was a very harsh booking considering Charlie Daniels was further off the pitch and right up to the crowd when he scored.

He went into the crowd.The fact that Daniels did the same should have meant he got a yellow too.It may seem harsh but the players know the consequences if they do it .

 

[Wonder Boyo]

He went into the crowd.The fact that Daniels did the same should have meant he got a yellow too.It may seem harsh but the players know the consequences if they do it .

He ran to the side of the pitch and the crowd went into him! He didn't go into the stands. He can't be held responsible for people running onto the side of the pitch to grab him. What if he was 10 cms further back, 20 cms further back, a metre? The point is he didn't go into the crowd, he run towards the crowd but didn't go into the stand.

To be honest I'm not 100% sure of the laws of the game around players celebrating. Are you allowed to go off the pitch or are players okay to celebrate off the pitch as long as the don't enter the spectating area? Should Ricketts have been booked for his celebration after the 5th goal against Rotherham? He was off the pitch but just fortunate that the fans didn't run on?

 

[Jonzy54]

He ran to the side of the pitch and the crowd went into him! He didn't go into the stands. He can't be held responsible for people running onto the side of the pitch to grab him. What if he was 10 cms further back, 20 cms further back, a metre? The point is he didn't go into the crowd, he run towards the crowd but didn't go into the stand.

To be honest I'm not 100% sure of the laws of the game around players celebrating. Are you allowed to go off the pitch or are players okay to celebrate off the pitch as long as the don't enter the spectating area? Should Ricketts have been booked for his celebration after the 5th goal against Rotherham? He was off the pitch but just fortunate that the fans didn't run on?

You don't actually have to dive into the crowd like Ganea did against Arsenal but if you leave the playing area and it's immediate area and you come into contact with the fans like Sterling did it is a yellow card.The fact that other refs fail to act doesn't get away from the fact what the law states .

 

[Wonder Boyo]

You don't actually have to dive into the crowd like Ganea did against Arsenal but if you leave the playing area and it's immediate area and you come into contact with the fans like Sterling did it is a yellow card.The fact that other refs fail to act doesn't get away from the fact what the law states .

I understand your point, but what if the fans come forward out of the stand, onto the edge of the pitch, and into contact with the player? Should that still be a booking?

 

[Jonzy54]

He ran to the side of the pitch and the crowd went into him! He didn't go into the stands. He can't be held responsible for people running onto the side of the pitch to grab him. What if he was 10 cms further back, 20 cms further back, a metre? The point is he didn't go into the crowd, he run towards the crowd but didn't go into the stand.

To be honest I'm not 100% sure of the laws of the game around players celebrating. Are you allowed to go off the pitch or are players okay to celebrate off the pitch as long as the don't enter the spectating area? Should Ricketts have been booked for his celebration after the 5th goal against Rotherham? He was off the pitch but just fortunate that the fans didn't run on?

Ricketts was fine because he was still on the immediate surrounds.If he had vaulted the hoardings and kept going that would have been different.

 

[Jonzy54]

I understand your point, but what if the fans come forward out of the stand, onto the edge of the pitch, and into contact with the player? Should that still be a booking?

Not if the player stays within the pitch area and immediate surrounds

 

[IANWILSON]

There's policing and there's west mids policing

 

[Jonzy54]

There's policing and there's west mids policing

There used to be a slogan
Help West Midlands Police -someone wrote on a poster-Beat yourself up

 

[RichB]

WMP are the worst, by a mile.

here's one example....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-39095756

The other year when we were at Blues one of the lads I was with, only about 19 and about 10 stone wet through, got clattered by a copper with his shield running past us as we were walking towards Digbeth on the pavement, as he was getting up, a second came along and knocked him back down. From behind when you don't see it coming can cause a serious injury, nevermind he could have been knocked infront of a passing car. Wouldn't come out the riot van either when I caught up with them to get there numbers as the office in charge said they are "too busy". ****ers.

Difficult to judge without being there to be fair but if they have gone to the extent of using shield tactics then it's fair to say that things have got out of hand.

Can't really generalise and say all police are bad anymore than you can say all football fans are bad.

I'd say things are let down by minorities on both sides

 

[Deleted member 4594]

How many yellows here?!
Personally think it's a shame players are discouraged from celebrating with fans. Just my view.

 

[Deleted member 4023]

Hardest crew at any football match in the UK? South Yorkshire Police. Honed their 'skills' against the miners, printers, dockers & steel workers.Total bellends the lot of em.

 

[Peszkywolf]

Not sure how much wolves and blues 'clashed at the ring road, think it was more there was a potential crush of the blues away fans in a tight space? Not sure how right police are of using force at that point to push them back? Always seems a bit stupid to baton the people at the front though when they've got nowhere else to go getting pushed from behind!?
And yes I've seen South Yorks lose it almost every time we go there.

 

[Jonzy54]

Hardest crew at any football match in the UK? South Yorkshire Police. Honed their 'skills' against the miners, printers, dockers & steel workers.Total bellends the lot of em.

I am sure you have met everyone

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

Hardest crew at any football match in the UK? South Yorkshire Police. Honed their 'skills' against the miners, printers, dockers & steel workers.Total bellends the lot of em.

Definitely would run WMP a close second at least.

 

[Deleted member 4594]

Happy memories being "encouraged" to leave the Howard in Sheffield by SYP
Still don't take West Midlands crown as biggest ******* though.

 

[Deleted member 4023]

Happy memories being "encouraged" to leave the Howard in Sheffield by SYP
Still don't take West Midlands crown as biggest ******* though.

Having met you, I could see why people would have to 'encourage' you to leave
Maybe I'm slightly biased against South Yorks for the **** they pulled during the miners strikes & the grief they gave us at most of the games I attended (Zero Tolerance? - more like get the first one in)

 

[Deleted member 4594]

Having met you, I could see why people would have to 'encourage' you to leave
Maybe I'm slightly biased against South Yorks for the **** they pulled during the miners strikes & the grief they gave us at most of the games I attended (Zero Tolerance? - more like get the first one in)

Don't know what you mean?
I'm probably biased against WMP for various reasons.

 

[Deleted member 3518]

Don't know what you mean?
I'm probably biased against WMP for various reasons.

Not like you to be biased Bright, having met you on a number of occasions you always come over as a well balanced individual with a chip on both shoulder, boooom.

 

[Deleted member 4594]

Not like you to be biased Bright, having met you on a number of occasions you always come over as a well balanced individual with a chip on both shoulder, boooom.

Very harsh!!

 

[wolvesultra]

Happy memories being "encouraged" to leave the Howard in Sheffield by SYP
Still don't take West Midlands crown as biggest ******* though.

Was in the Howard once on a Saturday after being to an Oasis gig at Sheffield Arena. Ended up filling up with Palace fans who were at United come 2pm when the police wanted them out it took a good 20mins all of our negotiation skills etc to not end up either in the away end or nicked!

 

[Deleted member 3518]

Mate of mine Les, a few on here know him, aged 70 from Ellesmere Port, when he went to Vale a couple of years ago got the bus back to Stoke station and was forced to get the train back to Wolverhampton and they wouldn't let him change platform for the Crewe/Chester train home.