The Football Governance Bill

[Mr Sizzle]

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Ignoring who said it, hard to argue against that !

 

[JadeWolf]

Ignoring who said it, hard to argue against that !

Agree, even if you think football needs a regulator, anyone involved in the current government should be nowhere near it.

 

[CelebrityWolf]

only rule that needs changing on that shortlist is that we should be insisting the big clubs join a super league.

 

[lostwolf]

Sorry, forgive the cynic in me, but it's just waffle.

Old rules
'we're moving to i54'
New rules
'are you fans happy if we move to i54?'
'NO'
'Oh well, we're going anyway'

We do this in mental health services. So easy to just use it as a tokenistic rubber-stamping exercise. To do it right you need proper 'co-production' and a levelling out of power, which in football terms would only be achieved via the 50+1 rule or simething similar... which probably cannot happen now in the PL! The horse bolted years ago and is strutting around fat as ****.

 

[inaglasshouse]

A more equitable share of media money means a lot less for wolves. Be careful what you wish for

Or ceiling would be higher though because we would have an amount closer to those above (as well as below)

 

[oldgoldheart]

Or ceiling would be higher though because we would have an amount closer to those above (as well as below)

Locally maybe but not in europe

 

[inaglasshouse]

Locally maybe but not in europe

well I'll be content to win the league again before worrying about the champions league

 

[oldgoldheart]

well I'll be content to win the league again before worrying about the champions league

All it will do is bring teams like albion closer to us. The sponsorship, stadium receipts will stay with bigger clubs. It wont be that level. This is not good for wolves

 

[inaglasshouse]

All it will do is bring teams like albion closer to us. The sponsorship, stadium receipts will stay with bigger clubs. It wont be that level. This is not good for wolves

Maybe it will mean we can invest more rather than be restricted by FFP or in fear of the relegation cliff edge. We have very wealthy owners who want to be the best but have been held back by fixing that is FFP.

 

[Sussex Wolf]

I work in financial services where the regulators are throttling the life out of the industry. Just like VAR this will be regretted

Different sectors have very different types of regulation. Financial services has some of the strictest as a result of the financial crash and the requirement to comply with similar moves in the US and Europe. There are plenty of other industries / sectors which have much lighter touch regulation, where the “steel fist” remains hidden unless the industry participants fail to operate consistently with the required principles.

I would expect the football regulator to start out as such a soft touch type, and would give the football clubs and authorities time to comply with the stated principles. The question is will football really comply, and if they don’t, will the regulator have the guts to use their powers to force them.

 

[oldgoldheart]

Maybe it will mean we can invest more rather than be restricted by FFP or in fear of the relegation cliff edge. We have very wealthy owners who want to be the best but have been held back by fixing that is FFP.

No chance. It will get stricter. It will just mean less money and less ability to compete with overseas clubs for players. The regulator will have no choice but to de risk football. So more restrictions

 

[oldgoldheart]

Different sectors have very different types of regulation. Financial services has some of the strictest as a result of the financial crash and the requirement to comply with similar moves in the US and Europe. There are plenty of other industries / sectors which have much lighter touch regulation, where the “steel fist” remains hidden unless the industry participants fail to operate consistently with the required principles.

I would expect the football regulator to start out as such a soft touch type, and would give the football clubs and authorities time to comply with the stated principles. The question is will football really comply, and if they don’t, will the regulator have the guts to use their powers to force them.

It will result in less risk, less money and the premier league will become less dominant versus overseas leagues. Regulators have nothing to gain from risks. This will make VAR look like a brilliant idea in comparison

 

[WickedWolfie]

It will result in less risk, less money and the premier league will become less dominant versus overseas leagues. Regulators have nothing to gain from risks. This will make VAR look like a brilliant idea in comparison

Agreed and that all assumes that FIFA don't act against England.

 

[Mardenboroughs Shoulder]

This regulation is the result of the greedy behavior of the Sky Six and the failed Super League. They should all be expelled from the Premier League and sent down to the Northen Premier League. Only thing is all the TV money would follow them too!

 

[Sussex Wolf]

It will result in less risk, less money and the premier league will become less dominant versus overseas leagues. Regulators have nothing to gain from risks. This will make VAR look like a brilliant idea in comparison

That’s entirely down to the football clubs, and how they react to this.

Regulation doesn’t have to be onerous or a barrier to managed risk taking. You referenced financial services, and that’s a great example. It was for decades under light touch regulation. What happened? The industry was very successful, but it was also characterised by greed and an attitude that unreasonable risks could be taken because the tax payer would step in to bail out the big firms. Cycles of boom and crash which made some very rich, but damaged the real economy and required taxpayers to step in. So it got a very different kind of regulation after the last crash. I’m not a fan of it either, but it was brought on itself.

Football is likely to get a chance to operate under light touch regulation. If it responds constructively and in line with the principles, then it can continue to prosper. If it tries to ignore the principles or challenge regulation like financial services did, then it will likely get a much more hands on approach, and that will not be good for the game.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

It's funny that people go mad about the greed of the Big 6 and then oppose regulation to save small clubs on the basis it might make us a bit poorer.

I think it'll be a complete waste of time and just a job for some time server and a tick box exercise for clubs. There aren't long lines of investors for L2 clubs that can be picked over by fans. Giving those clubs more money won't make them less likely to fail.

 

[clivewolves]

I like the idea of introducing more financial stability. I still think we should allow owners to spend money if they want to, but invest it into the club rather than loans.

The club heritage argument is one isn't a major issue for me. There's been a handful of incidents, but teams have changed their club badge without too much fuss. Cardiff changed it's home strip colours, but the fans soon let them know how they felt about it and it was reversed.

The two things I care about most is access to watching football and the cost of watching it. Will these changes remove the 3pm blackout? Will ticket prices become cheaper? Will they finally broadcast every match live in the UK? I don't think so, but maybe they'll surprise me. They'll give us what they think we want rather than what we actually want.

 

[Big Saft Kid]

An "independent regulator", eh? The government's tool of choice. Like OFWAT, the poodle of the water companies, that has overseen the dumping of hundreds of thousands of tons of raw sewage into our rivers for as long as it has existed, as they post profits in the billions? Don't make me laugh! It'll do **** all, but it'll enable the govt to say it's regulating football for the good of the whole game. It won't be.

 

[Chris H]

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He’s not wrong to be fair.

I know a contractor who was asked to quote for the repair of a pedestrian refuge island in Birmingham that had been cleaned out by a car. He quoted £1,500 for a 2 person team labour and materials and for it to be done at night to minimise disruption.

The council have then added administrative and subsidiary costs and submitted it at an overall cost of £13,000…

Oh and because it’s over £10k it then has to be sent to a secondary panel before it can be greenlighted which could potentially take 2 years…

 

[oldgoldheart]

That’s entirely down to the football clubs, and how they react to this.

Regulation doesn’t have to be onerous or a barrier to managed risk taking. You referenced financial services, and that’s a great example. It was for decades under light touch regulation. What happened? The industry was very successful, but it was also characterised by greed and an attitude that unreasonable risks could be taken because the tax payer would step in to bail out the big firms. Cycles of boom and crash which made some very rich, but damaged the real economy and required taxpayers to step in. So it got a very different kind of regulation after the last crash. I’m not a fan of it either, but it was brought on itself.

Football is likely to get a chance to operate under light touch regulation. If it responds constructively and in line with the principles, then it can continue to prosper. If it tries to ignore the principles or challenge regulation like financial services did, then it will likely get a much more hands on approach, and that will not be good for the game.

I wish i could believe this fantasy but sadly its just that. A fantasy. Regulation is throttling the life out of us. It will be like VAR . Intended to help but creating more problems. Just wait and see

 

[Sussex Wolf]

I wish i could believe this fantasy but sadly its just that. A fantasy. Regulation is throttling the life out of us. It will be like VAR . Intended to help but creating more problems. Just wait and see

It’s not a fantasy. I’ve interacted with multiple regulators, FSA and their European counterparts included, data protection, various energy ones, U.K. and European competition authorities, including meeting them when new rules were being drafted and rolled out.

Post financial crash, I had my team implement a massive data reporting programme to meet new compliance requirements for our trading activities, so I know how onerous they are. All that came in entirely because a minority of greedy people thought they were above the law and their management were happy to turn a blind eye because of the results they obtained for their firms. The issues were not in our industry, but impacted ours, because the rules and reporting requirements affected trading in all its forms.

In another part of our business, we dealt with a different regulator. Same government, same industry, very different experience. Light touch regulation which has persisted for decades because the businesses operating in it were sensible enough to implement voluntary reporting procedures and do deals consistent with a code of practice drawn up by the industry and approved and policed by the regulator. Our trading business used to have a similar experience until the post crash crackdown on trading.

That’s why I say what I do. This government will not choose to jump straight in with heavy handed regulation of football. It’s simply not its style and not in its interests. But if football chooses to try and avoid applying the principles in the way intended, a bit like the scenario SYHO suggested, then I could see the regulator coming under pressure to use a big stick, and that could be very damaging to the game.

 

[oldgoldheart]

It’s not a fantasy. I’ve interacted with multiple regulators, FSA and their European counterparts included, data protection, various energy ones, U.K. and European competition authorities, including meeting them when new rules were being drafted and rolled out.

Post financial crash, I had my team implement a massive data reporting programme to meet new compliance requirements for our trading activities, so I know how onerous they are. All that came in entirely because a minority of greedy people thought they were above the law and their management were happy to turn a blind eye because of the results they obtained for their firms. The issues were not in our industry, but impacted ours, because the rules and reporting requirements affected trading in all its forms.

In another part of our business, we dealt with a different regulator. Same government, same industry, very different experience. Light touch regulation which has persisted for decades because the businesses operating in it were sensible enough to implement voluntary reporting procedures and do deals consistent with a code of practice drawn up by the industry and approved and policed by the regulator. Our trading business used to have a similar experience until the post crash crackdown on trading.

That’s why I say what I do. This government will not choose to jump straight in with heavy handed regulation of football. It’s simply not its style and not in its interests. But if football chooses to try and avoid applying the principles in the way intended, a bit like the scenario SYHO suggested, then I could see the regulator coming under pressure to use a big stick, and that could be very damaging to the game.

We have to agree to disagree. I also have lots of experience and see it entirely differently. One of the reasons the uk will shrink financial services post brexit is regulation. Vis basel 3.1. It also increases financial exclusionby protecting you and I from taking risk. We will be the only regulated football league so the outcome is likely to be similar. Its a sport for gods sake. We have lost the plot. As i said before. Give it time and, just like VAR, people will hate it. Pandering to a vocal minority seeking no risk will create less risk and less success. The europeans must not be able to believe their luck

 

[Sussex Wolf]

I’m losing track of the number of Championship clubs who are currently under some form of restriction or are otherwise close to the edge. The situation at Sheffield looks perilous.

Sheffield United in desperate bid to avoid going into administration

EXCLUSIVE BY MATT HUGHES AND SAMI MOKBEL: Sheffield United have introduced a series of extraordinary cost-cutting measures to avoid entering administration as soon as next week.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

I’m losing track of the number of Championship clubs who are currently under some form of restriction or are otherwise close to the edge. The situation at Sheffield looks perilous.

Sheffield United in desperate bid to avoid going into administration

EXCLUSIVE BY MATT HUGHES AND SAMI MOKBEL: Sheffield United have introduced a series of extraordinary cost-cutting measures to avoid entering administration as soon as next week.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Wow, this sounds like Albion getting Chinese owners! Have they been bought by a poor Saudi Prince?! So they hang on till the deadline, go into administration and get sold for a fortune if they go up or bulldozed if they miss out - no pressure!

 

[Sussex Wolf]

Wow, this sounds like Albion getting Chinese owners! Have they been bought by a poor Saudi Prince?! So they hang on till the deadline, go into administration and get sold for a fortune if they go up or bulldozed if they miss out - no pressure!

They need to hope their unpaid creditors don’t seek court action before the deadline, or that could collapse the entire house of cards.

 

[maws]

Can we suspend all these politicians getting involved in football??????

Two faced ****ers

 

[Sussex Wolf]

Just reading about the last and current proposed buyers of Sheffield. The first, an American, is now in jail for wire fraud. The latest, a Nigerian, has unpaid county court judgements against him, an airline which only ever existed on paper, and a potentially suspicious social media campaign supporting his takeover bid… blimey!

Dozy Mmobuosi takeover questions hang over Sheffield United

Visit of Spurs comes as Nigerian businessman with a degree of mystery tries to satisfy EFL he is fit to buy Championship club

www.theguardian.com

If you read the Athletic’s articles on him, then you really do wonder about his financial credentials, especially the comments from local Nigerian journalists. I mean, photoshopped images of non existent planes, paid for social media messages by Nigel Farage, and registered addresses at Company House marked as “invalid or ineffective and was forged” is not a good look.

 

[Kashmire Hawker]

An Independent Regulator on Football Governance today confirmed in His Majesty’s Loyal Address.

I also note that Football Governance is the subject of a Adjournment Debate in the House of Commons tomorrow evening.

 

[Kebab Warrior]

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Summarised as ‘I want a closed shop competition’

 

[bigwolf]

Summarised as ‘I want a closed shop competition’

Yup but he has a valid point.

 

[Kashmire Hawker]

The Bill has been formally laid before Parliament and will be published today and knowing of the PL’s current refusal to agree the settlement with the EFL, the new Independent Regulator for Football (once established) will have the power to enforce one on them.

Shall keep an eye on what happens and what changes may occur during the Parliamentary process.

Historic Football Governance Bill introduced in Parliament

Historic legislation to reform the governance of men's elite football in England and put fans back at the heart of the game has been introduced in Parliament today.

www.gov.uk

 

[WorcesterWanderer]

The Bill has been formally laid before Parliament and will be published today and knowing of the PL’s current refusal to agree the settlement with the EFL, the new Independent Regulator for Football (once established) will have the power to enforce one on them.

Shall keep an eye on what happens and what changes may occur during the Parliamentary process.

Historic Football Governance Bill introduced in Parliament

Historic legislation to reform the governance of men's elite football in England and put fans back at the heart of the game has been introduced in Parliament today.

www.gov.uk

Clicked on this thread out of interest and saw the summary you posted last Feb. If we are getting the rules that were put up here back then, I'll be very happy.

A reform of our game is long overdue. This is meant to be a sport for the common people and right now it isn't.

 

[clivewolves]

Politicians criticising football owners for financial mismanagement. The words pot, kettle and black come to mind.

 

[Black Country Wanderer]

Politicians criticising football owners for financial mismanagement. The words pot, kettle and black come to mind.

While agree with you,something has to be done as the FA and Football League obviously havent a clue

 

[Perton Wolf]

This is long overdue and a welcome change. Major sectors of the economy are already regulated, so why not football, too?

 

[WolfLing]

I have experience of working in an industry with an independent regulator - the Financial Conduct Authority.

Unfortunately, they aren't fit for purpose.

All the headline ideas and goals they have are probably right. Things like reducing or preventing serious harm, setting higher standards, etc. They are all needed in an industry that was notoriously grubby and shady throughout the 80s and 90s.

The problem comes in the implementation of those ideas. The projects and schemes they bring in tend to cause more work and expense for those already doing things right, but with no real impact to stop those not doing things right.

They are also reactive, rather than proactive. What that means is those who have already caused serious harm have often already bolted and left the industry (with bags of other people's cash), with those doing things right left to pick up the tab (by increased contributions to a Financial Services Compensation Scheme levy). So rather than stopping people from doing things wrong before they do them, they get the people that haven't done anything wrong to help compensate the victims of the wrongdoing!

I hope an independent regulator for football will be different, but I can see the same issues cropping up if that is the model the Government follow for 'independent regulation'.

 

[wolvesjoe]

An "independent regulator", eh? The government's tool of choice. Like OFWAT, the poodle of the water companies, that has overseen the dumping of hundreds of thousands of tons of raw sewage into our rivers for as long as it has existed, as they post profits in the billions? Don't make me laugh! It'll do **** all, but it'll enable the govt to say it's regulating football for the good of the whole game. It won't be.

The term "regulation" covers far too many areas and policies. Effective regulation requires expertise, even-handedness, but determination to root out companies and agencies who flout the rules. Far too often the regulators are way too close to the companies and act as gatekeepers for those companies.

Nor is it just a UK/Tory problem. Same thing can be seen time and again even in a supposedly advanced country like Denmark where I live.
No easy solution that I can see. The example of polluting UK rivers with runoff is a very good example. Agro-industrial concerns have basically lived off artificially low costs by just dumping their waste. But those low costs also mean cheaper food, which we have become accustomed to. We are complicit in that sense.

As for football: it seems to me the basic economic model has been developing step by step since the inception of the Premier league back in 1992. The product is the highend drama and skill, organised around the top group. The last invitation to the poker game was Man City, and all the moves on the regulatory level since then have been honing that product. Protection of the monopoly group now drives policy.

I used to think that a well-run club with wealthy backers who could use their wealth for stadium expansion and exploiting all avenues to invest has a small chance of making a breakthrough and sustaining it through the 2/3 years European involvement necessary to claim one of the top 6 spots on a more permanent basis. Leicester were the inspiration for this hope. Maybe it is still there just about, but it has become even more narrow with the changes of the last 5 years.

Make a major mistake, like Fosun's conservative approach this January, and run the risk of a great deal of damage to the club's strategic position. The Snakes are a lot longer than the Ladders in this game.

 

[lobodelsur]

I have experience of working in an industry with an independent regulator - the Financial Conduct Authority.

Unfortunately, they aren't fit for purpose.

I've had dealings with the FCA and couldn't agree more.

 

[YouGottaRaulWithIt]

We've changed our kit colours many times in the past -
Old Gold;
yellow;
mustard;
inoffensive orange;
a sort of tan you sometimes see on a sunburnt heifer;
that murky brown found in swimming pools populated by kids...

Hopefully no more, then

What - no more hooped socks!

 

[northnorfolkwolf]

As soon as I see the word 'politicians' and 'regulators' and 'Parliament' my heart sinks as I equate all those things with procrastination, delay, inquiries, committees, audits. Nothing will be resolved in my life-time. They'll still be talking about it.