The evidence

[mcwolf]

View attachment 32343
Here, the linesman’s flag is down, our lads are off to celebrate, balls in the net, not a single Liverpool player think so it’s offside.

Look at the ref, he’s looking at the linesman, no arm in the air for a goal, he never has any intention of giving that goal. Something stinks here

a video clip of the ref telling the lino to flag for offside.......

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=748562769487478

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

This is exactly what I think happened. It’s a hugely annoying human error.

Of course, the real scandal is not having the camera angles for VAR available, which as we have now seen, would have over-ruled it and awarded the goal.

The Salah one is the right decision. It’s one of the worst rules in football, but under it, it’s correct. Some of the other decisions were just absolute dog**** though.

I thought that was right about Salah last night, but as on another thread, the rule clarification from IFAB says

Deliberate play’ is when a player has control of the ball with the possibility of:

• passing the ball to a team-mate; or
• gaining possession of the ball; or
• clearing the ball (e.g. by kicking or heading it).

. So since Toti was never in control of the ball I do think Salah was off.

 

[DJW]

I thought that was right about Salah last night, but as on another thread, the rule clarification from IFAB says

Deliberate play’ is when a player has control of the ball with the possibility of:

• passing the ball to a team-mate; or
• gaining possession of the ball; or
• clearing the ball (e.g. by kicking or heading it).

. So since Toti was never in control of the ball I do think Salah was off.

He was definitely offside.

 

[chignalwolf]

I’m still angry about that “handball” against Doherty in the away game at Burnley a few years ago!

1. Doherty was protecting his face from a dangerous HIGH BOOT.
2. It was also a case of BALL TO HAND

Yet somehow they award a penalty. That essential cost us a place in Europe the next season.

We have really had some rotten decisions against us. VAR just seems to have exposed it more.

Me too Beijing Wolf, that still bugs me and as you say it made sure we came outside of the qualifying
top 6, and also made sure the top 6 were all in Europe,
its not just us but all the rif raf from outside of the chosen few,

 

[Elvis Wolf]

Time to draw a line under this and move on!
It's over, can't be changed.
Weds night Quarter League Cup v Forest.
Very winnable.
Then West Ham at Molineux,,another winnable game!!

Wolves ONLY Wolves!!!

 

[SE10 Wolf]

Time to draw a line under this and move on!
It's over, can't be changed.
Weds night Quarter League Cup v Forest.
Very winnable.
Then West Ham at Molineux,,another winnable game!!

Wolves ONLY Wolves!!!

Perhaps “draw a line” isn’t the best turn of phrase to use today!

 

[jrpb-3]

Time to draw a line under this and move on!
It's over, can't be changed.
Weds night Quarter League Cup v Forest.
Very winnable.
Then West Ham at Molineux,,another winnable game!!

Wolves ONLY Wolves!!!

At least it just kept it at a draw and we have the replay, rather than if we had been behind and not equalizing, or would have been worse if in league and it had cost us 2 pts

 

[Bill McCai]

10.13 or so here

 

[GavW]

Time to draw a line under this and move on!
It's over, can't be changed.
Weds night Quarter League Cup v Forest.
Very winnable.
Then West Ham at Molineux,,another winnable game!!

Wolves ONLY Wolves!!!

Agree with this it feels a bit like a robbery but the game wasn't over either if it was allowed.

8 mins + 5 injury time. They've had come at us with all barrells. It might have finished 3-2, 3-3 or we got another on the counter attack we will never know.

On to a massive week. Then raise the roof for the replay.

 

[Monk]

Just to add more fuel to the fire - I have been told from someone who I know who wouldn't wind me up and is a Liverpool supporter he heard someone at the game last night say that that Mike Deans' 2 sons are season ticket holders at Anfield - I can't confirm the rumour but if true it's a disgrace and should be subject to an enquiry as to why he is allowed to be involved in any of their games. Nepotism at least on his case and dereliction of duty by the FA. He and a lot of other Liverpool around him were mystified why there 2nd goal was given and ours not

 

[jrpb-3]

10.13 or so here

contraversy haha, surely if you're going to spell it incorrectly then controVARsy

 

[DasWolf]

The rules for the Salah goal are mind blowingly idiotic, so of course IFAB implement it. Player goes for it because he can't tell opponent is offside. Opponent is offside, but not offside because the player went for it.

Wolves should make an official complaint, there were many blatantly wrong decisions as well. Obvious fouls not given or checked. A handball right in front of the linesman which he didn't see... but he's somehow supposed to see offside through a crowd on the other side of the pitch. Which didn't exist and the footage proves it.

Fan footage proves that Nunes was miles onside when the ball was played. It's also a stupid rule because again like goals we've had ruled out, a player has had to run backwards and further to retrieve the ball.

 

[maws]

When you say 'they'.....

Mike dean again wasn’t it?

 

[Wellington Wolf]

The number of mistakes by the officials is overwhelming even with my gold specs on. Half a dozen blatant mistakes and all in Liverpools favour. No doubt if the other way round those decisions would have looked different. Not saying all 6, but definitely some.

Unconscious bias is corruption by another name

 

[Saltyjim]

With the talk about no camera angle available, they were able to show Cunha was onside for the second goal easily enough. Surely that camera would have been a similar angle to see if Nunes was on or off? Or was it because he was too close to the touchline.
It basically boils down to the linesman making a terrible judgement/guess.

 

[Superted]

Just checked. It was raised slightly. The delay in raising it is the damning evidence for me. All our players looked across to the linesman to check and them immediately ran after Toti to celebrate when there was no initial flag.

There was a post on another thread appearing to show the ref signalling to the lino to raise his flag.

That would also explain the delay. They also made the point on ITV that he's a very experienced Iino and I don't believe (looking at the stills that have been shown since) that he would have made such an error.

I think it was the ref's call.

 

[Spitfire]

There was a post on another thread appearing to show the ref signalling to the lino to raise his flag.

That would also explain the delay. They also made the point on ITV that he's a very experienced Iino and I don't believe (looking at the stills that have been shown since) that he would have made such an error.

I think it was the ref's call.

As has already been said on here, they need to release the audio of the Ref and VAR if they want to show transparency. I’d like to think it’s an honest mistake but unless they prove otherwise everyone will be sceptical.

 

[Superted]

As has already been said on here, they need to release the audio of the Ref and VAR if they want to show transparency. I’d like to think it’s an honest mistake but unless they prove otherwise everyone will be sceptical.

Yeah I noticed after. I hadn't quite made it to that part of the thread.

 

[Spitfire]

Yeah I noticed after. I hadn't quite made it to that part of the thread.

Wasn’t having a go, just didn’t want it to look like I was the first to say it .

 

[bully9]

The most annoying thing is the that because of Alexander Arnold's position its obvious the linesman is just guessing as he can't see Nunes on the other side of the pitch.
I reckon he went with his instinct knowing VAR would clarify and - just our luck - for once there was no decent camera footage available. Which is the real scandal.

I have a tendency to look at the linesman now before celebrating, he doesn’t put his flag up straight away it’s done afterwards and he wasn’t in line at the time, I said 3 years ago that football is corrupt, last night proved it

 

[Kashmire Hawker]

10.13 or so here

Another perfect angle to confirm what we all think!

Here's to Wednesday, Saturday and then the Replay.

 

[Scallywolf]

Watched the video on Twitter of Totis ’goal’ over and over again.

TAA was definitely playing Nunes onside when the ball went back to him by Hwang following the corner.

Am I missing something?

Can’t understand how the linesman could give offside when there were about 15 players in his line of vision and the ball was over the other side of the pitch!

I’m still absolutely seething!!!

 

[Hawkguy]

Just shows that there is absolutely no consistency in decision making even when VAR is used. If anything, VAR is adding confusion to decision making.

Yeah VAR is only helpful when the rules are black and white and there's no interpretation allowed.

I remember in hockey, years ago, you weren't allowed to be in the goalie crease whatsoever. The winning goal of the Stanley Cup there was a player in the crease. The goal stood.

In reality, it's a good goal, the player didn't interfere with the goalie whatsoever, and that's why the video judge gave it. However, the rule is black and white. It should have been disallowed at the time.

Lucky for the NHL, this was just before the internet got high speed. No one was as connected to forums and the such as they are now. So the backlash was not as big as it would have been otherwise.

 

[Ginger Chimp]

Had SSN on for the last hour and they've not mentioned it once. If it were the other way around, it would be talked about every 5 mins

FACup. They don’t care, they’re not showing it.

 

[Sussex Wolf]

Watched the video on Twitter of Totis ’goal’ over and over again.

TAA was definitely playing Nunes onside when the ball went back to him by Hwang following the corner.

Am I missing something?

Can’t understand how the linesman could give offside when there were about 15 players in his line of vision and the ball was over the other side of the pitch!

I’m still absolutely seething!!!

I think most of us suspect the excuse proffered by the officials is made up BS to cover themselves. The ref likely thought it worth ensuring VAR took a good look at Toti for the goal, so prompted the assistant to flag. Dean, being the biased ******* he is, couldn’t find video evidence to rule Toti offside, so instead upheld the flag based on a player he apparently has no video evidence either way for. He gets the outcome he wants and the blame is on the technology not the official’s decisions.

Wolves should make an official complaint, through the appropriate channels, force an investigation, and on the back of it, require that those involved are not allowed to be involved in any future Wolves games.

 

[tonto]

This won't be a popular opinion, but here goes....

The lino thinks Nunes is offside, but he's not sure, so he doesn't flag.
We score the goal.
The ref says is that goal OK?
The lino says, I think the corner taker was offside.
The ref says and indicates' well stick your flag up'.
So the lino flags.
Mike Dean (all hope dies here) looks at the angles available and decides it's not clear that he can overrule the lino.

So we're done by human error (by the lino), ITV's lack of a decent camera angle. It's not a conspiracy, there's a bit of incompetence a hint of unconscious bias and of course Mike Dean hates us, but that's a given.

So I'm aggrieved today, but some of this stuff is a bit silly.

No if he thinks but not sure wait for the var

 

[JadeWolf]

I think most of us suspect the excuse proffered by the officials is made up BS to cover themselves. The ref likely thought it worth ensuring VAR took a good look at Toti for the goal, so prompted the assistant to flag. Dean, being the biased ******* he is, couldn’t find video evidence to rule Toti offside, so instead upheld the flag based on a player he apparently has no video evidence either way for. He gets the outcome he wants and the blame is on the technology not the official’s decisions.

Wolves should make an official complaint, through the appropriate channels, force an investigation, and on the back of it, require that those involved are not allowed to be involved in any future Wolves games.

Agree totally.

Neither Toti or Nunes are offside. The “no camera angle” explanation is a blatant lie.

 

[The Clock]

My opinion now is that the Linesman made an error in giving Toti offside.
Rather than admitting that error everything else has been concocted as a fabrication to cover up the error.
The Linesman had plenty of opportunity to raise the flag when Nunes received the ball. He didn’t put it up until after the ball was in the net

 

[derbyrameater]

I think most of us suspect the excuse proffered by the officials is made up BS to cover themselves. The ref likely thought it worth ensuring VAR took a good look at Toti for the goal, so prompted the assistant to flag. Dean, being the biased ******* he is, couldn’t find video evidence to rule Toti offside, so instead upheld the flag based on a player he apparently has no video evidence either way for. He gets the outcome he wants and the blame is on the technology not the official’s decisions.

Wolves should make an official complaint, through the appropriate channels, force an investigation, and on the back of it, require that those involved are not allowed to be involved in any future Wolves games.

Also with what you say it proves to me that having the refs interviewed would be a waste of time as they will do a bit of video training (possibly do already?) and given templates of what to say.

As Jonzy says refs are never wrong!

 

[Jefe]

So we're done by human error (by the lino), ITV's lack of a decent camera angle. It's not a conspiracy, there's a bit of incompetence a hint of unconscious bias and of course Mike Dean hates us, but that's a given. So I'm aggrieved today, but some of this stuff is a bit silly.

You can't say the goal wasn't given in part because Mike Dean hates us, but say there is no conspiracy. Unless you are being tongue in cheek, that doesn't compute.

 

[Frank Lincoln]

My opinion now is that the Linesman made an error in giving Toti offside.
Rather than admitting that error everything else has been concocted as a fabrication to cover up the error.
The Linesman had plenty of opportunity to raise the flag when Nunes received the ball. He didn’t put it up until after the ball was in the net

The assistant wasn’t even level when he earned his brown envelope.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

If this thread shows one thing it is that greater transparency would help (although probably also make the ****-ups more obvious, but maybe that's ahelp too). One thing that winds me up on Sky (imagine it's the same in the Cup) is that the comentators are listening to the VAR conversation, but can't play it. I imagine this is where the fact that it was Nunes given offside comes from.

 

[Oldgold Wolfcub]

It has been said that the assistant referee only flagged because the referee told him to. In which case he is not assisting but being dictated to.

We should not be discussing the possibles as to what happened if everything was above board. If all the officials wre respnsible for their decisions and said exactly what was the reason for it. If the lino was told by the ref that should have been said. then the ref would have to tell the reason. Then VAR can look at that and then make a decision.
If for example he had said it was Hwang then there is no way he could have made a judgement about anyone else.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

You can't say the goal wasn't given in part because Mike Dean hates us, but say there is no conspiracy. Unless you are being tongue in cheek, that doesn't compute.

Ha ha, fair point, it's not a conspiracy if it's all just down to one self-important **** though!

 

[Blackpool Wolf]

We shouldn’t let this drop.

Are there cameras on both sides of the pitch ?

Even if there aren’t, are they seriously saying that there are blind spots in a stadium that has hosted hundreds of top flight games?

And if there are blind spots at Anfield, are there blind spots at every other Premier League ground ?

If there are, then how come this hasn’t cropped up before ?

If there aren’t blind spots elsewhere then why at Anfield.

if we don’t do something this will just keep happening time and time again - destroying the game we love.

 

[Ginger Chimp]

We shouldn’t let this drop.

Are there cameras on both sides of the pitch ?

Even if there aren’t, are they seriously saying that there are blind spots in a stadium that has hosted hundreds of top flight games?

And if there are blind spots at Anfield, are there blind spots at every other Premier League ground ?

If there are, then how come this hasn’t cropped up before ?

If there aren’t blind spots elsewhere then why at Anfield.

if we don’t do something this will just keep happening time and time again - destroying the game we love.

This

 

[JadeWolf]

We shouldn’t let this drop.

Are there cameras on both sides of the pitch ?

Even if there aren’t, are they seriously saying that there are blind spots in a stadium that has hosted hundreds of top flight games?

And if there are blind spots at Anfield, are there blind spots at every other Premier League ground ?

If there are, then how come this hasn’t cropped up before ?

If there aren’t blind spots elsewhere then why at Anfield.

if we don’t do something this will just keep happening time and time again - destroying the game we love.

There are no blind spots. They have camera angles everywhere. It’s a lie for them to say otherwise.

 

[Timberwolf]

The most annoying thing is the that because of Alexander Arnold's position its obvious the linesman is just guessing as he can't see Nunes on the other side of the pitch.
I reckon he went with his instinct knowing VAR would clarify and - just our luck - for once there was no decent camera footage available. Which is the real scandal.

Wait til you find out the linesman didn’t flag until the ref told him to…
Lino was already on his heels to the middle of the pitch thinking it was a good goal.

 

[Scallywolf]

My opinion now is that the Linesman made an error in giving Toti offside.
Rather than admitting that error everything else has been concocted as a fabrication to cover up the error.
The Linesman had plenty of opportunity to raise the flag when Nunes received the ball. He didn’t put it up until after the ball was in the net

How could the linesman see through a packed penalty area, with players obscuring his vision and the ball on the opposite side of the pitch?

Post and email this question, addressed to the FA Fraud Department and also to VAR Incompetence Department, Stockley Park.

 

[reanswolf]

I am particularly concerned that the referee seems to tell the linesman to put his flag up......why?

Am I over-analysing his intent? Why else would he do that?