The all new reverse-reverse Gary O’Neil humble pie safe space thread

[Jefe]

We've now had three distinct chapters under O'Neil's management - one good, two bad. An inverse **** sandwich, you might say.

 

[Hawkguy]

Add that the number of bad performances against teams in and around us….. this week being case in point.

To be fair, I've always thought we play that way. To the level of our competition. It's sad. And not just something new this year.

 

[Nige]

Well the First thread came too soon after a couple of decent results against City and Villa. Not Half way through the season yet. Our only saving grace is the 3 at the bottom don't at the moment look like they are getting out of it.

 

[Adrian_Monk]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say he ain't gonna be flailing his arms around swallowing his own chozz on Monday Night Football tomorrow

 

[wolfslair]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say he ain't gonna be flailing his arms around swallowing his own chozz on Monday Night Football tomorrow

He might as in his own words there is no issue with the structure today!!! Only player errors let us down…..

 

[Asthmatic Wolf]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say he ain't gonna be flailing his arms around swallowing his own chozz on Monday Night Football tomorrow

I did think this. If you are going to do these masterclasses when you win, I would genuinely be more interested in understanding what was planned before a game like this, and why and where it went wrong.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

I did think this. If you are going to do these masterclasses when you win, I would genuinely be more interested in understanding what was planned before a game like this, and why and where it went wrong.

Sure we'd find it interesting and learn more, but in reality he's not going to hang Bentley, Dawson, Toti etc out to dry on national TV.

 

[Adrian_Monk]

Sure we'd find it interesting and learn more, but in reality he's not going to hang Bentley, Dawson, Toti etc out to dry on national TV.

He wouldn't anyway - when we lose it's always Lopetegui's fault

 

[luiandlui]

We were expected, by almost everyone, to get relegated. We won’t be.

8/10

 

[Asthmatic Wolf]

Sure we'd find it interesting and learn more, but in reality he's not going to hang Bentley, Dawson, Toti etc out to dry on national TV.

Yes no way it’s happening of course but it would be great to see. Not individual errors but the extent to which it’s poor execution of tactics or are the opposition tactics superior etc, who adapted more and so on. Can systems sustain or two poor performances, do some systems do that better than others? Would be intriguing viewing.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

We were expected, by almost everyone, to get relegated. We won’t be.

8/10

No we weren't, people just thought we were in some danger, which took a lot of getting used to after the raised expectations of the Spring. I said 6.5/10 a couple of weeks ago, but even with 4 points from the two home games I think I've slipped to 6, maybe 5.5. There was a lot wrong beyond the basic shape today for me though.

 

[Ercall Wolves]

Is that because we're too good, or that there are three teams (or more) that are worse than us.
I do agree with your statement however and don't think we'll be relegated, but right now I would suggest it's more of the latter rather than the former.

I have tried the Tap on a few occasions and yes there's a good selection if not a tad pricey as you say.
Funnily enough, someone who boarded the train earlier at MK told me about that new Spoons pub opening in Euston so one to try in the future I think.
London doesn't have a shortage of good ale houses that's for sure, which is becoming a godsend of late as we can't buy a win in the capital and the need for a decent boizer to drown my sorrows is becoming a necessity.
Onwards and upwards.

What’s the difference
It’s both isn’t it
We are too good to go down because we are better than at least 3 other teams

 

[Chisels_n_ommers]

I did think this. If you are going to do these masterclasses when you win, I would genuinely be more interested in understanding what was planned before a game like this, and why and where it went wrong.

If GON can give a masterclass lecture on this....

how it's tactically beneficial to play Toti in a sort of hybrid left c-half/ left full back in a seemingly interchangeable 4/5 at the back system,

play Bellegarde as a hybrid type left wing back but apparently being asked to arrive in the opponents box also like a no.10

whilst having

RAN and Bueno fit, available and on the bench

whilst the opponents have a really tasty, in top form, highly dangerous baller playing wide right who is tearing up defences for fun


...then I'd be tuning in to that one

 

[Irish_Wolf]

Robbie Keane is doing a brilliant job in management, just saying

 

[marrs-guitar]

We were expected, by almost everyone, to get relegated. We won’t be.

8/10

Who the hell thought we would finish behind a tinpot outfit like Luton, a Sheffield United side who promptly let all their better players of the promotion campaign depart and didn't invest a dime and an utterly naive Burnley side?! Last year's Championship was the worst ever season in living memory for quality.

 

[Adrian_Monk]

Who the hell thought we would finish behind a tinpot outfit like Luton, a Sheffield United side who promptly let all their better players of the promotion campaign depart and didn't invest a dime and an utterly naive Burnley side?! Last year's Championship was the worst ever season in living memory for quality.

It's another myth perpetuated mostly by those who started the original humble pie thread and their ilk.

I read through the original threads a while ago and give or take a few who were inexplicably a little knee-jerk, most of the doom mongers thought we'd be fighting for 15/16/17th, which, now we've lost the element of surprise, we probably will be.

 

[Contrarian]

Sure we'd find it interesting and learn more, but in reality he's not going to hang Bentley, Dawson, Toti etc out to dry on national TV.

TBF to those players, when it comes to the goals conceded, they were only the last links in a chain of mistakes all round.

 

[Mugwump]

We will stay up this year basically because there are 3 of the worst teams i think i have ever seen in the premier league who are nailed on for relegation. My big concern is that Fosun and Hobbs will be able to justify GON keeping us up as some kind of achievement and not look to improve us. That to me is a recipe for disaster for next season. If we show signs of promise and progression over the rest of the season, i can live with it. If we keep playing as poorly as we have been and we arent showing the signs of promise, it will convince me more that its just Lage MK2 and its going to end the same way.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

We will stay up this year basically because there are 3 of the worst teams i think i have ever seen in the premier league who are nailed on for relegation. My big concern is that Fosun and Hobbs will be able to justify GON keeping us up as some kind of achievement and not look to improve us. That to me is a recipe for disaster for next season. If we show signs of promise and progression over the rest of the season, i can live with it. If we keep playing as poorly as we have been and we arent showing the signs of promise, it will convince me more that its just Lage MK2 and its going to end the same way.

I thought I'd have a look as my instinct was to say were nearly half way and three teams have 9pts or fewer, so 20 points might keep us up! I was a bit surprised to find that the norm is for the team in 18th to have about 12 points after 17 games. So much as it looks like 3 awful teams I don't think anyone should be complacent. That said 30 should do it and there's no way we won't get to that! As you say though, even flirting with 17th should be enough of a warning - see Bournemouth!

 

[meeee67]

We dow gerrit forward quick enuff and I cor bring me flask of bovril in no more...Sack em all.... .

 

[Golden Arrow]

What’s the difference
It’s both isn’t it
We are too good to go down because we are better than at least 3 other teams

Yes, but if it's only marginal then I would be quite concerned.
Next season is likely to bring Leicester and Ipswich to the table, so I would hope our aims and aspirations are somewhat higher than perhaps where they lie at the moment.

 

[WW1963]

Mix this year consists of half the posters wanting the other half to eat humble pie.

Nobody will be satisfied until they get their glorious 'told you so' moment.

Every manager who has managed every club since social media became a thing has precipitated a Told You So moment.

Fergie, Wenger, Mourinho, Nuno (an example for our club) and many, many others.

The same will go for Klopp, Arteta, Emery and whoever is top of their game right now.

How much more Told You So moments for every other manager are just waiting to be shouted from the rooftops?

The TYS Brigade are always eventually proved right. They were right about Barnwell, Taylor, Turner, Mick, Jacket, Nuno - not one of these managers stayed the course at Wolves and restored the club to former glories. One or two threatened to, but fell short.

See! I told you so.

 

[DanishWolf]

I'll maintain we're a very average midtable team. We'll win some, and lose some, and a longer pattern of wins, will be rare.
Doesnt mean GON doesnt make mistakes, or that a better manager couldn't get more out of the team. Obviously a World Class manager can lift an average team more than a rookie manager like GON, talented or not. Emery at Villa is a clear example of that.
But the question should then be - Can a club with our financial restraints and current squad, get a manager that would get more out of the current squad than GON? Not just a tiny bit more, but much more?
In the summer, my answer would be a resounding - "Yes of course. Who could be worse?". Now I'm not so sure...

 

[Jefe]

What's reverse humble pie, anyway? Told-ya-so quiche?

 

[wolfslair]

What's reverse humble pie, anyway? Told-ya-so quiche?

It is a master chef style deconstructed humble pie!

Looks fancy and different, but is essentially just humble pie, but simply is extra fancy presentation lol

 

[Teddy Ruxpin]

To me he outstripped my expectations of him, the last month hes reverted to where I thought he'd be. A fierce critic of his appointment (mainly misdirected from my anger at Fosun) he's still actually in credit for me, although just about.

I will most happily consume humble and non-humble pie as my waist line confirms that I am certainly not picky..

 

[SuperGran]

I'll maintain we're a very average midtable team. We'll win some, and lose some, and a longer pattern of wins, will be rare.
Doesnt mean GON doesnt make mistakes, or that a better manager couldn't get more out of the team. Obviously a World Class manager can lift an average team more than a rookie manager like GON, talented or not. Emery at Villa is a clear example of that.
But the question should then be - Can a club with our financial restraints and current squad, get a manager that would get more out of the current squad than GON? Not just a tiny bit more, but much more?
In the summer, my answer would be a resounding - "Yes of course. Who could be worse?". Now I'm not so sure...

Agree with your post.

 

[Arcadius]

I don't think he has done too badly, better than a lot of us feared, but I do feel we could get someone better in.

Careful..... thats far too reasoned and balanced for the Mix!

 

[Mighty Thor]

People pulling party popper cos we may not get relegated?! You really have drank the kool aid. Why do we have to become one of ‘those’ clubs where success is not getting relegated? We are better than that!!! We should aspire to more than that. We have to aspire to more than that. We’re not ****ing Bournemouth.

 

[Monswolf]

I was and still am totally opposed to GON being manager of Wolves at this time. I may be found out to be wrong but as much as the media loves all tout him as a nice bloke and a good up and coming manager imo he just is not quite good enough. his in game management seems rudimentary at best and I'm not alway 100% how he has set the team up to play he talks a talk but ultimately if the bottom 3 were not in such a mess this year we would be right down very near the bottom and in serious serious danger of relegation

 

[Contrarian]

I'll maintain we're a very average midtable team. We'll win some, and lose some, and a longer pattern of wins, will be rare.
Doesnt mean GON doesnt make mistakes, or that a better manager couldn't get more out of the team. Obviously a World Class manager can lift an average team more than a rookie manager like GON, talented or not. Emery at Villa is a clear example of that.
But the question should then be - Can a club with our financial restraints and current squad, get a manager that would get more out of the current squad than GON? Not just a tiny bit more, but much more?
In the summer, my answer would be a resounding - "Yes of course. Who could be worse?". Now I'm not so sure...

Kind of agree. Though being picky, isn't mid-table around 9th - 12th? How much time have we spent in 12th or higher in the past couple of years? HArdly any, we've been mostly below that. Bruno had us around 8th for much of the season before last, before a really bad collapse in the final third or so. And most of those players who took us to the top half are gone.

I'd say we've become a lower mid-table team. Only when our ideal first 11 are all match fit and playing, does 9th or 10th look possible. And no team has it's ideal first 11 available for that many games a season, so that won't happen. With injuries & suspensions, based on the last couple of years, we look like a 12th to 15th team.

 

[DanishWolf]

Kind of agree. Though being picky, isn't mid-table around 9th - 12th? How much time have we spent in 12th or higher in the past couple of years? HArdly any, we've been mostly below that. Bruno had us around 8th for much of the season before last, before a really bad collapse in the final third or so. And most of those players who took us to the top half are gone.

I'd say we've become a lower mid-table team. Only when our ideal first 11 are all match fit and playing, does 9th or 10th look possible. And no team has it's ideal first 11 available for that many games a season, so that won't happen. With injuries & suspensions, based on the last couple of years, we look like a 12th to 15th team.

Yeah lower midtable is probably more fitting..

 

[Contrarian]

Yeah lower midtable is probably more fitting..

It gives a decent challenge to the owners and manager. I doubt many seriously expect us to make a top 6 challenge any time soon. However, there's a gap between where we are now and the top 6 or 7. That should be where we are aiming for, consistently. It's achievable, too, for a club of our stature.

It's going to be interesting seeing how O'Neil does in the transfer market - not sure that he's had much direct experience being in charge of it. I think we definitely need to strengthen with a genuine mid-table plus level player or two.

 

[loppers86]

I’ve been a vocal critic of GONs appointment, but more out of anger at the way Shi and co have handled Nuno-Lage-Lopetegui.

He has actually surprised me, and i think he’s turned out better than I thought he would.

I think at the moment when Neto got injured we we looking like a really good team - there were echos of some of the early Nuno good times.

I’m prepared to give him the rest of this season - get a few of his own signings in and see how we go.

i do genuinely think the tolerance for a bad run will be very low though… he needs to keep picking up results (and to avoid managerial
****-ups like we saw on Sunday) or the knives will be out in all quarters.

 

[martin120863]

I’m tired already of watching us at home and seeing both teams kicking towards the same goal - ours!

We’re one paced front to back and increasingly poor in both boxes.

We have no devil in us apart from Mario and Pedro and players who should be nowhere near a Premier league starting eleven are playing the full 90 as it appears our Monday night Mourinho has no faith in our substitutes..

Wake up Jeff - the rot is already set in.

 

[North West Wanderer]

I’ve been a vocal critic of GONs appointment, but more out of anger at the way Shi and co have handled Nuno-Lage-Lopetegui.

He has actually surprised me, and i think he’s turned out better than I thought he would.

I think at the moment when Neto got injured we we looking like a really good team - there were echos of some of the early Nuno good times.

I’m prepared to give him the rest of this season - get a few of his own signings in and see how we go.

i do genuinely think the tolerance for a bad run will be very low though… he needs to keep picking up results (and to avoid managerial
****-ups like we saw on Sunday) or the knives will be out in all quarters.

fair play.

 

[sc91]

No we weren't, people just thought we were in some danger, which took a lot of getting used to after the raised expectations of the Spring. I said 6.5/10 a couple of weeks ago, but even with 4 points from the two home games I think I've slipped to 6, maybe 5.5. There was a lot wrong beyond the basic shape today for me though.

Everyone outside of Wolves had us nailed on as relegation fodder? Has to be said.

 

[WickedWolfie]

Everyone outside of Wolves had us nailed on as relegation fodder? Has to be said.

To be honest if the bottom three weren't so crap we might well be.

Leicester beat Blues tonight and are romping the Chump. Saints and DLS, the other two who went down last season, 3rd and 4th. Next season will undoubtedly be harder.

 

[Ned]

I really don’t know where I am with GON; sometimes I think we’ve got a quality, intelligent, young manager in charge… other times I feel that we’ve got Bruno Lage back, almost down to a tee.

I’m pretty relaxed about the season overall as the bottom 3 are so appalling so I’ll probably just carry on getting annoyed when we play terribly and getting excited when we play well but if I was Matt and Jeff I would have a succession plan ready to go just in case. Hopefully they see what the rest of the season has to offer in terms of progress and performances but keep in mind what happened when we didn’t sack Bruno at the end of the season if things don’t look like they’re going to take a turn for the better.

With that in mind I wouldn’t be selling anybody in January just because the manager doesn’t fancy them.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

Everyone outside of Wolves had us nailed on as relegation fodder? Has to be said.

Did they? I looked back for a few odds and 3/1 seemed to be the price when the season started. I'm going to say a few people (like me) over-estimated Burnley, but you'd struggle to find many who thought we'd finish below Sheff U or Luton. Show me some evidence by all means.

Joint 7th favourite here at 7/2 - not exactly nailed on!

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