Summer 2023 Transfer Window Thread

[Mile End Wanderer]

Correct, but the only ones that will know that will be the finance team, auditors (if they are already involved) and those high up in power at Molineux.

Not a soul otherwise will know at this point considering year end occurred only 6 weeks ago.

. FOSUN MUST GO, FOSUN MUST GO WOAH WOAH

CHINESE MAFIA OUT

CAN ALREADY SENSE THE BED SHEETS AND MARKER PENS

 

[Bryce]

If it turns out to be true we could be the Portsmouth of 2023

I really, really hope that’s not the case

 

[Asthmatic Wolf]

If it turns out to be true we could be the Portsmouth of 2023

I really, really hope that’s not the case

I know at least they’ve got a seaside

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

If it turns out to be true we could be the Portsmouth of 2023

I really, really hope that’s not the case

How? We won’t get a points deduction which will be Everton and Forest or even Man City if we’re lucky

9 points took off them for entering administration

 

[Mighty Thor]

Correct, but the only ones that will know that will be the finance team, auditors (if they are already involved) and those high up in power at Molineux.

Not a soul otherwise will know at this point considering year end occurred only 6 weeks ago.

The issues are not at wolves. They are at the parent company level. Fosun themselves are overlevered and need to sort their ****. They borrowed money at the fosun parent level and bought assets like wolves. That debt needs servicing via upstreaming cash from the operating companies/investments via dividends.

Fosuns implied cost of capital got very expensive the last 6 months and the debt they have at the patent probably can’t be refinanced in the bond markets. So they are cutting costs and raising cash in their investments most likely to bridge the time period for them to Complete asset sales and this for the them to be able to refinance debt over the next few years. Asset rich. Cash poor.

 

[AntonusKlesk]

I'm not sure at what point the league takes their snapshot of whether or not we have made a loss of 105m over the last 3 years, but the whole debacle illustrates again why FFP only serves to benefit the club's that already have large revenues, that you can't just change overnight if you aren't in that category - a rolling 3 year blockade for any ambition you might have under the guise of protecting clubs from their owners.

FFP locks the large teams in place, and destins everyone else to have a tight season every couple of years, increasing their chances of relegation to keep average punters happy with team-swapping, and no risk of the largest customer-bases losing their spot.

If FFP were actually about keeping teams financially afloat there could just be a simple rule to ensure that there was always a ring-fenced backup fund that the owner has to keep topped up to a certain percentage of cost and liability for the club for X many years.

Rules as they are amount to borderline corruption, like lots of areas related to football, where questionable things happen out in the open and everyone just accepts it as part of the game. Be it FFP, VAR, agent fees or TV rights we are used to seeing what appears to be corruption and either letting it go, or convincing ourselves that football is too big and this is too obvious, it must be above board.

 

[rich67]

this

How long before we see the headline 'Fosun to sell Wolves'?

this !!!

 

[koplex]

An outgoing - Chiquinho - leaving on a season long loan is, perversely, what gives me some confidence of quality incomings. If we didnt have a plan for a quality replacement, he stays.

I don’t want to shoot you mate but if you wouldn’t mind, would you stand in the corner marked ‘I’m a billy bull****ter, look at me…’?
You can jump up and down and wave your arms too, if it helps you get noticed. Good man!

Still think it was bull****? I'll give you another: Lop nearly walked last week.

 

[Pseudonym]

An outgoing - Chiquinho - leaving on a season long loan is, perversely, what gives me some confidence of quality incomings. If we didnt have a plan for a quality replacement, he stays.


Still think it was bull****? I'll give you another: Lop nearly walked last week.

Missed all the Lop walking stuff.

Can you or others privy to this information share anything about it?

 

[rich67]

i now think were up for sale saudi we can't compete !

 

[sc91]

I’m pretty certain that the operative figures are readily available to many in the industry, particularly credible journalists who comment specifically on the finance of the club such as Jonny Phillips.

Also with all due respect there is a fundamental flaw in your thinking, which is that to know they are under FFP restrictions they must know where the finances are in relation to this. Working out where we stand at any point after that is basic arithmetic.

Are they? That'll be a first.

You answered the question, you don't know the position, they do.

 

[Bill S Preston Esq.]

Spent well over £150 million in the last 12 months, hardly the actions of owners who are “done”

Do people just ignore this fact? They live in a parallel universe where reality is completely ignored.

 

[Bill S Preston Esq.]

Only when they literally had no choice. If we'd been relegated then their asset value plummets. If they'd spent and strengthened gradually and properly over a number of windows like a well run club does, we wouldn't have been in the position of having to rush spend silly money to save ourselves, and thus find ourselves in this position now.

I said it at the time. Anyone paying attention to our spending last summer and in January, knew we'd spent this summers budget.

How it's come as a surprise to anyone is the only thing that surprises me.

 

[Deleted member (smith)]

I'm not sure at what point the league takes their snapshot of whether or not we have made a loss of 105m over the last 3 years, but the whole debacle illustrates again why FFP only serves to benefit the club's that already have large revenues, that you can't just change overnight if you aren't in that category - a rolling 3 year blockade for any ambition you might have under the guise of protecting clubs from their owners.

FFP locks the large teams in place, and destins everyone else to have a tight season every couple of years, increasing their chances of relegation to keep average punters happy with team-swapping, and no risk of the largest customer-bases losing their spot.

If FFP were actually about keeping teams financially afloat there could just be a simple rule to ensure that there was always a ring-fenced backup fund that the owner has to keep topped up to a certain percentage of cost and liability for the club for X many years.

Rules as they are amount to borderline corruption, like lots of areas related to football, where questionable things happen out in the open and everyone just accepts it as part of the game. Be it FFP, VAR, agent fees or TV rights we are used to seeing what appears to be corruption and either letting it go, or convincing ourselves that football is too big and this is too obvious, it must be above board.

I beg to differ…the current FFP rules ( which are due to. Change shortly) allow a maximum of 105 million in losses over a three year period provided the shareholders make it good..if as you suggest the owners could provide further ring fenced back up funds the clubs with rich shareholders would have a huge advantage. The new rules makes it clearer still….your expenditure is limited by your revenue not how rich your shareholders are.

 

[North West Wanderer]

I would urge you all to read @Mighty Thor ‘s excellent insight.

i certainly don’t have the level of financial knowledge he does, mine ended at FPC3!!

however it does make perfect sense, and perhaps why the tap got turned off so abruptly.

on a positive note, it might mean a sale sooner rather than later, as the goalposts have changed somewhat

 

[Oh When the Wolves]

So we now have 2 strikers (Cunha, Silva), one of who can't play as a no.9 on his own (Cunha). And a Kaladzic who isn't ready.

We have three centre-backs. Only one right centre-back in Dawson, who is 33.

We have no new signings on the horizon or any money, according to our manager.

Hmmm...

Sums it up except you’ve missed podence, selling our most creative player last season.

We still need a CF, even more so now Jimenez left.

CB is essential too

And probably an attacking mid.

Doesn’t seem like we are close on any, and the season starts in 2.5 weeks.

 

[Rangiora Wolf]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1683952936299163648

Good luck to the lad. He's leaving a sinking ship as it stands.

 

[Rangiora Wolf]

And the good old days get further and further away…

I fear we're going to go the full circle and end up where we were before all these players joined us.

 

[Rangiora Wolf]

How long before we see the headline 'Fosun to sell Wolves'?

tomorrow hopefully with a buyer confirmed.

 

[groundhogwolf]

We don't need to sell someone to buy Elvedi- we just need Fosun to release a small chunk of the funds already gathered.

Sell Kilman and that money is just going into the black hole along with the £120mill already raised, leaving us with Toti, Dawson and Pond at CB.

What black hole it’s their money.

 

[groundhogwolf]

The Chinese dragon is being full on spanked back home. Real estate sector on its knees again and will need bailing out by the commi party. Consumption is cratering and the post covid lockdown bounce in China lasted but a few months. The Chinese economy, and its people, are levered to the nuts and that includes fosun. It’s not easy to refi debt in financial markets at the moment. And it’s even harder, and most costly, when you are some opaque and secretive Chinese investment fund with high loan to value ratios holding illiquid assets that are difficult to value as the world sits on the verge of a recession in H2.

Fosun over pay. They over borrow. And they have a pretty average track record. Historically they have been able to grow assets and look better than they are as state owned banks have lent them excess money, at off market rates, in order to go buy foreign assets at inflated prices which no rational Western European or US private equity house would pay. Well that’s coming home to roost. Check out dalian Wanda too. Plus HNA.

Balance sheets too levered, and cashflows non existent to service debt at parent/holdco levels where debt has been issued. The ‘borrow as much as you can’ business model of these investment firms worked in the post financial crisis free money party from 2009 to 2022. But with the free money party now over and capital markets either shut or expensive….they are ****ed. They need to raise cash at their operating companies (eg wolves) and upstream that to the parent entities to service and repay debt which (just
like your mortgage in the U.K.) got very ****ing expensive the last 6 months.

Loopy is ****ed. The plan changed. What he thought was happening is not. But guess what. The world changed the last 6 months. Everyone and everything is pulling in spending… especially if you have spent on credit. That is, unless you are from a country (or the actual country) that has been selling gas to the world at 400p a therm (versus pre invasion levels around 40-50p) for the last 18 months. In that case you are the last man standing and you will just be on a cash spunkathon.

This isnt opinion. This is fact. For example, fosun have $500m bond that matures in 2026. So not even that long. It’s currently priced at 73-74. Which means it has a discount to face value. That bond yields 17% percent at the price. That means that when they need to refi that bond….probably within the next 12-24 months they would need to pay a coupon of 17% instead of 5%. Thats a huge increase in interest costs and they have to get that cash from somewhere. And that’s even if they can refi it as at 17% the market is pricing in a decent chance of distress and default. Fosun need to bring down their geeeing urgently or they are full on ****ed and will be at risk of default. Dalian wands struggled to refi a bond very recrntly and missed the maturity date. Only find cash to repay It (versus refinance) after they were in technical default. Fosun will need to sell assets. Raise cash from their investments (via dividends they will upstream from opcos) and CUT spending. As such I would think it very likely they will look to sell us as most of their other investments are total dross and in negative equity.

Peace. Night. Night.

Thanks, makes sense.

 

[SA Wolf]

Any movement overnight?

 

[Timberrrr]

Any movement overnight?

Only my bowels

 

[wolfgar]

At least no-one need worry now about us splashing £12 million on Che Adams. I know there were a few potentially unhappy about that. We’d need to sell another 3 or 4 first to be able to afford him. Ait Nouri, Silva, Podence perhaps? He might have gone to Bournemouth with Alex Scott by then.

Apologies, but yes I’ve woken up in a **** mood. The squad is ok but needs 3 or 4 decent, well thought out signings (not galacticos) and we can’t even give the manager that apparently? Difficult not to feel a little concerned right now, when even up to yesterday avo at 4pm there was still plenty of optimism about. Signing Elvidi, Scott and Retegui say, would have had the place buzzing and we’d still be in £50 million in profit for the summer so far. Plan C/D my ass.

And I still think Lop is a complete throbber for dragging this all out publicly again. His reason for doing so isn’t to thoughtfully keep the fans in the loop, it’s purely for selfish reasons and to cover his own ass. Makes us look completely tinpot. Thanks everyone.

 

[Monketron]

I get that JL is ****ed and probably wants out yet doesn't want to walk away from a lucrative contract, but publicly moaning how we can't even afford the 'plan B' signings is doing no one any good, him, the club, the players or the fans.

 

[wolfslair]

The issues are not at wolves. They are at the parent company level. Fosun themselves are overlevered and need to sort their ****. They borrowed money at the fosun parent level and bought assets like wolves. That debt needs servicing via upstreaming cash from the operating companies/investments via dividends.

Fosuns implied cost of capital got very expensive the last 6 months and the debt they have at the patent probably can’t be refinanced in the bond markets. So they are cutting costs and raising cash in their investments most likely to bridge the time period for them to Complete asset sales and this for the them to be able to refinance debt over the next few years. Asset rich. Cash poor.

There seems to a be sad, horrible and sickening trend of clubs being bought by Chinese/Asian owners and them being run into trouble financially.

The premier league and football league might want to start stopping these sales in future!

 

[JTWolf]

I smile at the fact that since the interview yesterday people are claiming Lop nearly walked last week but last week or weekend no one decided to speak up to suggest it but now are claiming they know. It nearly happened.

 

[WalsallWolf]

I smile at the fact that since the interview yesterday people are claiming Lop nearly walked last week but last week or weekend no one decided to speak up to suggest it but now are claiming they know. It nearly happened.

Someone ITK on the other forum in fairness suggested he nearly walked, they posted this the weekend I think - seems they was right.

 

[Timberrrr]

I will always be grateful to fosun for what they've done for the club but time to go now

 

[wolfslair]

I smile at the fact that since the interview yesterday people are claiming Lop nearly walked last week but last week or weekend no one decided to speak up to suggest it but now are claiming they know. It nearly happened.

People don’t post thing’s slightly negative about the club due to the vitriolic abuse they get…….

Posting this would have been molmix suicide!!!

I am seen as negative, took the licks for posting about how Scott sellers and Jeff were seen by other clubs….. took dogs and prolonged abuse!!!!! I got this from other clubs who had the misfortune of working with the two charlatans…….. but still I got abused. Fast forward 12 months….. I was proven 100% accurate as now people thanks to JL are speaking out as they feel now they can share stories and incidents they know.

 

[North West Wanderer]

People don’t post thing’s slightly negative about the club due to the vitriolic abuse they get…….

Posting this would have been molmix suicide!!!

I am seen as negative, took the licks for posting about how Scott sellers and Jeff were seen by other clubs….. took dogs and prolonged abuse!!!!! I got this from other clubs who had the misfortune of working with the two charlatans…….. but still I got abused. Fast forward 12 months….. I was proven 100% accurate as now people thanks to JL are speaking out as they feel now they can share stories and incidents they know.

people want to hear the good news not the bad. I went on record with some pretty negative stuff about Solbakken, all of it from players and staff at the club way back, and got dogs abuse from some. break a signing and you’re fine

what i would say is that there’s a load of posters who claim to be in the know, tons of “i’ve heard” etc and a lot of it is imo nonsense.

there’s a couple of posters i hang my hat to across all platforms, and treat the rest of it as a bit of fun.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

People don’t post thing’s slightly negative about the club due to the vitriolic abuse they get…….

Posting this would have been molmix suicide!!!

I am seen as negative, took the licks for posting about how Scott sellers and Jeff were seen by other clubs….. took dogs and prolonged abuse!!!!! I got this from other clubs who had the misfortune of working with the two charlatans…….. but still I got abused. Fast forward 12 months….. I was proven 100% accurate as now people thanks to JL are speaking out as they feel now they can share stories and incidents they know.

If JL walked he would get a Saudi job within a week. You’ve been right many times on things

Some fans just want to moan, because it’s not what they want to hear

Or that you have source and they don’t

ITS NOW WEDNESDAY TIME TO MAKE SOME MOVES MR HOBBS

 

[Halesowen wwfc]

People don’t post thing’s slightly negative about the club due to the vitriolic abuse they get…….

Posting this would have been molmix suicide!!!

I am seen as negative, took the licks for posting about how Scott sellers and Jeff were seen by other clubs….. took dogs and prolonged abuse!!!!! I got this from other clubs who had the misfortune of working with the two charlatans…….. but still I got abused. Fast forward 12 months….. I was proven 100% accurate as now people thanks to JL are speaking out as they feel now they can share stories and incidents they know.

I did say it on here 2 weeks ago and then had the pee royally taken out of me. Calls like prove it etc.

 

[Rangiora Wolf]

People don’t post thing’s slightly negative about the club due to the vitriolic abuse they get…….

Posting this would have been molmix suicide!!!

I am seen as negative, took the licks for posting about how Scott sellers and Jeff were seen by other clubs….. took dogs and prolonged abuse!!!!! I got this from other clubs who had the misfortune of working with the two charlatans…….. but still I got abused. Fast forward 12 months….. I was proven 100% accurate as now people thanks to JL are speaking out as they feel now they can share stories and incidents they know.

You'll never get abuse from me that's for sure.

 

[wolfslair]

I did say it on here 2 weeks ago and then had the pee royally taken out of me. Calls like prove it etc.

And you can’t prove it by dropping a name as you would cost the source who is often a long time friend their job!!!!!

At one point an email from wolves to enquire about a player or a wolves player being on the target list used to fill transfer teams at other clubs with absolute dredd…… we take the **** out of Levy at spurs, but our pair were hated far far far more!!!!

Hobbs (I praise all the time) is doing a great job of changing that!!!! People like him from the sounds of it at other clubs.

 

[Oh When the Wolves]

And you can’t prove it by dropping a name as you would cost the source who is often a long time friend their job!!!!!

At one point an email from wolves to enquire about a player or a wolves player being on the target list used to fill transfer teams at other clubs with absolute dredd…… we take the **** out of Levy at spurs, but our pair were hated far far far more!!!!

Hobbs (I praise all the time) is doing a great job of changing that!!!! People like him from the sounds of it at other clubs.

Our pair? Shi and sellars ?

 

[wolfslair]

Our pair? Shi and sellars ?

Yes, as they were the two I was speaking and referring too.

 

[wolfslair]

Deal is done I have heard, just needs to be announced

I Posted this before 10 last night…… before the official announcement on social media.

 

[wolfslair]

If ever we needed a Percy banger it’s now……

In the style of mick…… as he needs help that ain’t coming for a Percy banger lol

“I’m not Percy the magician”

 

[AndyY]

Serious question.

How do we bid twice, including a £20m bid for Scott then?

Even more confusing than that, @Northampton_wolf alluded to the fact that we had bid close to the asking price and that it was just the up front payment terms that were the issue. All very odd that we now appear to have no money!