Steve Bull stand

[andyc225]

It needs to be done eventually. The current Bully stand is crumbling. Let's make our ground a showpiece for the city and for the region.

 

[bridgnorthwolf]

You should have been there in the 80s. One one occasion I took binoculars, and that is not a joke.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b399/timwwfc2/OldMolineux.jpg

 

[TFWanderers]

You should have been there in the 80s. One one occasion I took binoculars, and that is not a joke.

A bit before my time but i've seen the photos and heard various stories of foggy matches where people in the Steve Bull didn't see the game haha.

Madness.

 

[WasStefan]

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b399/timwwfc2/OldMolineux.jpg

That's madness

 

[Haggstone]

Absolutely. Clubs signal that they will sell players all the time to other clubs. Wolves' three top saleable assets were Fletcher, Jarvis and Hennessey, and I am sure everyone knew they were available at the right price. Hennessey of course became injured so that one will have to wait.

Working this out is simply a case of understanding Wolves' overall financial strategy. Morgan has made it clear that he does not want to put his own money in, so has therefore to raise funds through the business. Without the revenue streams of the Premier, that has to be done through asset sales,which is what has happened. The ground rebuild is central to Wolves' longterm ambitions, (and Morgan's own prestige I would argue), so it has to get done. There werent any alternatives, once Morgan ruled out further capital from his own wealth.

My concern is simply that Wolves fans understand the strategy. Once that is done, then it becomes possible to see how realistic it might or might not be.

I understand the strategy that you outline perfectly well. I just don't see any real tangible evidence that Wolves are adopting that particular strategy.

I mean I could take a leap of faith as you have done and assume that Morgan doesn't want to put any of his own money into the club or that we would have sold players even if they had not handed in written transfers request but the actual course of events that I have witnessed seem to suggest otherwise. I see no reason to guess, Im looking at this objectively rather than trying to shoe horn the facts as we know them any way possible in order to fit a theory that may or may not be true.

 

[puntswolf]

Really original, never heard the "build houses" comment before. :stupido3:

It's sarcasm!!! Read the rest of my post/posts! My first point backs him up!

 

[Mugwump]

What exactly did Morgan do to try and stop the rot last season?

The sacking of McCarthy was rediculous and should have been done before last season started, after Wolves had struggled two season on the trot. Having kept him on he then sacks him at a stupid point of the season and after a farcical sequence of events, where I don't believe for a second the club had any intention of finding a replacement, they give the job to a man that has to be of the worst, most incompetent and negative managers I've ever seen in charge of the Wolves. Quite how the man is still involved at the club in any way shape or form is a mystery.

The PL is an expensive place to be and if a club really wants to stay there it needs to invest in quality players. Quite clearly the players McCarthy signed were not up to the job and far better needed. Whether his funds were restricted we may never know but certainly there was not enough quality and what little quality there was is now being sold of for massive profits.

As regards money taken in over 4 years via the parachute payments, well it's over 4 years. The £30M taken in is in the here and now, or best part of and is mostly up front and can be added to those payments.

It's just a feeling I have and if Morgan wanted Wolves to be in the PL he should have done a bloody site more than he did.

Mr Moxey had a huge hand in keeping mick in a job longer than he should have.

 

[TFWanderers]

What exactly did Morgan do to try and stop the rot last season?

The sacking of McCarthy was rediculous and should have been done before last season started, after Wolves had struggled two season on the trot. Having kept him on he then sacks him at a stupid point of the season and after a farcical sequence of events, where I don't believe for a second the club had any intention of finding a replacement, they give the job to a man that has to be of the worst, most incompetent and negative managers I've ever seen in charge of the Wolves. Quite how the man is still involved at the club in any way shape or form is a mystery.

The PL is an expensive place to be and if a club really wants to stay there it needs to invest in quality players. Quite clearly the players McCarthy signed were not up to the job and far better needed. Whether his funds were restricted we may never know but certainly there was not enough quality and what little quality there was is now being sold of for massive profits.

As regards money taken in over 4 years via the parachute payments, well it's over 4 years. The £30M taken in is in the here and now, or best part of and is mostly up front and can be added to those payments.

It's just a feeling I have and if Morgan wanted Wolves to be in the PL he should have done a bloody site more than he did.

I believe wages may have been restricted but transfer funds were clearly not. He was backed, 3 times more given than some of our relegation rivals yet we went down without putting up a fight.

McCarthy unlike Di Matteo / Hodgson failed in the foreign market where the real bargains are found.

I honestly think Morgan would have fired him way before he actually did if it wasn't for Jez.

Look at some of MM's interviews after his departure. He clearly has massive respect for Jez, who kept him in his job.

 

[wolvesjoe]

Its not really a leap of faith though, is it? Morgan has said on multiple occasions that he wants to run Wolves as a business and is not intending to fund it himself. And we have had over five years of precisely that strategy!!!

It seems to me much more of a leap of faith to suddenly imagine that Wolves have a different strategy than the one they have followed for such a long time, and which the owner has constantly alluded to!!! How much evidence do you want, after all?

 

[wolvesjoe]

Mr Moxey had a huge hand in keeping mick in a job longer than he should have.

Good point! And Connor somehow kept his job, despite his abject failures.

 

[puntswolf]

What exactly did Morgan do to try and stop the rot last season?

The sacking of McCarthy was rediculous and should have been done before last season started, after Wolves had struggled two season on the trot. Having kept him on he then sacks him at a stupid point of the season and after a farcical sequence of events, where I don't believe for a second the club had any intention of finding a replacement, they give the job to a man that has to be of the worst, most incompetent and negative managers I've ever seen in charge of the Wolves. Quite how the man is still involved at the club in any way shape or form is a mystery.

The PL is an expensive place to be and if a club really wants to stay there it needs to invest in quality players. Quite clearly the players McCarthy signed were not up to the job and far better needed. Whether his funds were restricted we may never know but certainly there was not enough quality and what little quality there was is now being sold of for massive profits.

As regards money taken in over 4 years via the parachute payments, well it's over 4 years. The £30M taken in is in the here and now, or best part of and is mostly up front and can be added to those payments.

It's just a feeling I have and if Morgan wanted Wolves to be in the PL he should have done a bloody site more than he did.

Got bored half way through. Was making my eyes bleed. Absolutely no point responding to you.

 

[Haggstone]

What exactly did Morgan do to try and stop the rot last season?

Well for a start he sanctioned the signings of Frimpong and Bassong, had these signing worked out as we all had hoped it may have been enough to keep us up, we will never know now.

I like a conspiracy theory as much as the next person but to suggest that any sane chairman of a football club would see relegation as a financially beneficial event in this day and age is quite frankly absurd.

 

[Mark Rankines Lovechild]

What exactly did Morgan do to try and stop the rot last season?

The sacking of McCarthy was rediculous and should have been done before last season started, after Wolves had struggled two season on the trot. Having kept him on he then sacks him at a stupid point of the season and after a farcical sequence of events, where I don't believe for a second the club had any intention of finding a replacement, they give the job to a man that has to be of the worst, most incompetent and negative managers I've ever seen in charge of the Wolves. Quite how the man is still involved at the club in any way shape or form is a mystery.

The PL is an expensive place to be and if a club really wants to stay there it needs to invest in quality players. Quite clearly the players McCarthy signed were not up to the job and far better needed. Whether his funds were restricted we may never know but certainly there was not enough quality and what little quality there was is now being sold of for massive profits.

As regards money taken in over 4 years via the parachute payments, well it's over 4 years. The £30M taken in is in the here and now, or best part of and is mostly up front and can be added to those payments.

It's just a feeling I have and if Morgan wanted Wolves to be in the PL he should have done a bloody site more than he did.

He is also the only man that ever got us into the top division in the last 25years or so, yet that seems to be conveniently overlooked.

It's really pointless arguing with you as so much of the above is based on hindsight and an ingrained dislike of Morgan and Moxey that you will never be swayed.

They are not by any means perfect, screwed up the manager appointment big style but they are what we have and are a lot better that many.

They build a new stand and are criticised, as we didnt need it, they delay the Steve Bull to build a 4million quid academy (not just houses) and they are criticised for delaying building the ground - you can please some of the people some of the time but not all of the people all of the time.

It makes me laugh how easily people on here are willing to spend Steve Morgans millions when knowing nothing of running costs, overheads, structure of the transfer fees etc, player wages etc. People are very free and easy with Morgans money and what he should do with it, yet the same people are usually the ones complaining about the price of tickets and merchandise when it comes to spending their own cash.

 

[wolvesjoe]

Well for a start he sanctioned the signings of Frimpong and Bassong, had these signing worked out as we all had hoped it may have been enough to keep us up, we will never know now.

I like a conspiracy theory as much as the next person but to suggest that any sane chairman of a football club would see relegation as a financially beneficial event in this day and age is quite frankly absurd.

Relegation was always a scenario that had to be considered however and planned for. Morgan made sure McCarthy was not given any big funds in January, although he did give him backing for two good loans. Then no new manager is appointed before the transfer deadline, and several managers turn down what was on offer. This has never been explained properly, but it stands to reason that it was a short term offer. Then finally the hapless Connor is put in charge.

The thread that ran through that whole fiasco was a determination not to spend big money or make big commitments. Couple with the postponement of the Steve Bull, it doesnt take a genius to see that relegation was very much being planned for.

 

[wolvesjoe]

He is also the only man that ever got us into the top division in the last 25years or so, yet that seems to be conveniently overlooked.

It's really pointless arguing with you as so much of the above is based on hindsight and an ingrained dislike of Morgan and Moxey that you will never be swayed.

They are not by any means perfect, screwed up the manager appointment big style but they are what we have and are a lot better that many.

They build a new stand and are criticised, as we didnt need it, they delay the Steve Bull to build a 4million quid academy (not just houses) and they are criticised for delaying building the ground - you can please some of the people some of the time but not all of the people all of the time.

It makes me laugh how easily people on here are willing to spend Steve Morgans millions when knowing nothing of running costs, overheads, structure of the transfer fees etc, player wages etc. People are very free and easy with Morgans money and what he should do with it, yet the same people are usually the ones complaining about the price of tickets and merchandise when it comes to spending their own cash.

I suggest you just read the accounts, annually available. Wolves' approach to running the business is perfectly clear there.

 

[Haggstone]

Its not really a leap of faith though, is it? Morgan has said on multiple occasions that he wants to run Wolves as a business and is not intending to fund it himself. And we have had over five years of precisely that strategy!!!

It seems to me much more of a leap of faith to suddenly imagine that Wolves have a different strategy than the one they have followed for such a long time, and which the owner has constantly alluded to!!! How much evidence do you want, after all?

Evidence that we would not have been able to function as a business had we not sold Jarvis, Fletcher and Kightly would be a start. I assuem you have access to our accounts?

As I have said, I understand the crux of what you're saying and Wolves do want to run the club as a business. There is also more than one way to skin a cat, your theory only seems to fit the actual events that I have witnessed if I let my imagination do a lot of the work instead of taking things at face value. I mean i could assume that the club have bull$$$$ted me, but why would I do that? I would only do such a thing if I was trying to support a hypothesis when frankly I have no reason to do so, this isn't some school project where I'm desperately trying to manipulate results to prove a theory that may not actually exist.

 

[LINT70]

http://soccerlens.com/premier-league-tv-rights/94662/

"Clubs relegated from the Premier League receive £48m in parachute payments over four years – a measure designed to compensate for the loss of Premier League revenue."

Bottom place club receives £45million for one season. Based on parachute payments decreasing on a sliding scale of £48million over four seasons.

Season 1 - 16.5million (-£45million = - £28.5million)
Season 2 - 13.5million
Season 3 - 10.5million
Season 4 - 7.5million.

Factor in player wages going down as per relegation clauses etc. Funny thing is if you take off wage cuts, we will probably save what, £5million (guesstimate, could be more) over the season? Leaving £23million roughly.

I wonder what we have that's worth £23million to plug this gap? Oh yes. Fletcher and Jarvis!

But when you factor in with this loss of ticket sales an reduced ticket prices, less advertising sales etc and we will still be down. So stop talking wet.

I reckon your the one thats talking wet - do you really believe that SM & JM would not have contingency plans for relegation - they've consistently said that the club is run on a sound financial basis.

It's nonsense to believe that the sale of Fletcher and Jarvis was essential to balance the books - there's no way that we'd be posting a 23M loss if they hadn't of been sold.

I'd say your guesstimate of 5M savings in wages is way off - they'll probably save that much alone by trimming the bloated squad size down - couple that with the relegation wage cuts the savings are more likely to be 15-20M.

As to the subject of the rebuild i would of thought that the club will be having 2nd thoughts if the reports on the low take up of the WV1 £1000 season tickets are anything to go by.

 

[Haggstone]

Relegation was always a scenario that had to be considered however and planned for. Morgan made sure McCarthy was not given any big funds in January, although he did give him backing for two good loans. Then no new manager is appointed before the transfer deadline, and several managers turn down what was on offer. This has never been explained properly, but it stands to reason that it was a short term offer. Then finally the hapless Connor is put in charge.

The thread that ran through that whole fiasco was a determination not to spend big money or make big commitments. Couple with the postponement of the Steve Bull, it doesnt take a genius to see that relegation was very much being planned for.

Bit of a difference though between planning for a possible event as opposed to actually wanting an event to occur though, I'm sure you will agree. That was what I was discussing, you realize that right?

 

[wolvesjoe]

Bit of a difference though between planning for a possible event as opposed to actually wanting an event to occur though, I'm sure you will agree. That was what I was discussing, you realize that right?

Yes, I do.

There is a difference betweeen planning for an event and wanting that to happen. But it can be a rather fine difference in practice:shakehands: Connor could have kept us up and a different scenario was possible. But that was unlikely, to say the least, and Morgan was certainly not going to take any risks. In the end, it seemed to me that relegation became the most likely option, and Morgan knew that.

 

[Haggstone]

Yes, I do.

There is a difference betweeen planning for an event and wanting that to happen. But it can be a rather fine difference in practice:shakehands: Connor could have kept us up and a different scenario was possible. But that was unlikely, to say the least, and Morgan was certainly not going to take any risks. In the end, it seemed to me that relegation became the most likely option, and Morgan knew that.

So, just to be clear with you on this, are you also suggesting that Wolves are better off financially as a result of relegation, or at the very least that the board saw possible relegation in that way?

 

[JR's Boots]

Bit of a difference though between planning for a possible event as opposed to actually wanting an event to occur though, I'm sure you will agree. That was what I was discussing, you realize that right?

I doubt Moxey and Morgan appointed Connor to engineer relegation but giving him the job ensured demotion was a nailed on certainty and the collapse in morale in the club and the fans is still being felt today.

It was such a baffling appointment that there will always be speculation over why they gave the hapless dolt the job and indeed retain his services even now.

 

[Manic88]

Yaaaaaawwwwwwwn. Steve Bull redevelopment money will be mortgaged against the future gate receipts and corportate revenue it generates. Nothing to do with transfer funds

No football club does business with a big bag of ten pound notes, these threads are getting $$$$ing boring now

 

[Haggstone]

I doubt Moxey and Morgan appointed Connor to engineer relegation but giving him the job ensured demotion was a nailed on certainty and the collapse in morale in the club and the fans is still being felt today.

It was such a baffling appointment that there will always be speculation over why they gave the hapless dolt the job and indeed retain his services even now.

Giving Connor the job was a $$$$ up, not sacking Mccarthy earlier was a $$$$ up, not having a replacement for McCarthy before sacking him was a $$$$ up.

That said after two weeks of trying and failing to get a replacement manager as far as I could tell they had very little options but to give the job to TC. It wast like they sacked MM and then gave the job to TC the very next day after all.

I imagine Stale will have had a say in the decision to retain TC. It makes sense to me to keep him, at least in the interim period.

 

[JR's Boots]

Giving Connor the job was a $$$$ up, not sacking Mccarthy earlier was a $$$$ up, not having a replacement for McCarthy before sacking him was a $$$$ up.

That said after two weeks of trying and failing to get a replacement manager as far as I could tell they had very little options but to give the job to TC. It wast like they sacked MM and then gave the job to TC the very next day after all.

I imagine Stale will have had a say in the decision to retain TC. It makes sense to me to keep him, at least in the interim period.

The body language between Stale and Connor in the opening two games has been quite interesting. It does give the impression that Solbakken has to put up with him for the time being but would rather not have him around.

 

[Bostin]

I'd be monumentally $$$$ed off if we used that money to rebuild the Steve Bull without becoming established in the PL first.

What's the point? We only got a gate of 28k the other night! It's not like there's a demand for seats! The concourses may be tiny and outdated, but I personally go to a football match to sit in my seat and watch Wolves play, not stuff my face and have a beer.

 

[Haggstone]

The body language between Stale and Connor in the opening two games has been quite interesting. It does give the impression that Solbakken has to put up with him for the time being but would rather not have him around.

If that's the case he wont be around for long. I suppose it's possible that powers at be have insisted that he be retained to help with the transition but again we just don't know either way.

 

[wolvesjoe]

Yaaaaaawwwwwwwn. Steve Bull redevelopment money will be mortgaged against the future gate receipts and corportate revenue it generates. Nothing to do with transfer funds

No football club does business with a big bag of ten pound notes, these threads are getting $$$$ing boring now

Sorry you are tired.

Actually the club has ruled out taking a large mortgage, as far as it can be understood. When the original plans were announced, MOxey said only limited short term lending for the Steve Bull. So you are wrong.

 

[puntswolf]

The talk that wolves wanted relegation is $$$$$$$$. If we had stayed up we would have more money, it's simple. staying up does not mean we have to pay millions and make a loss.

However Obviosuly there was a contingency plan for relegation. Anyone who doesnt have that is an idiot.

It's like going to Wales on holiday and not planning for rain!

 

[Macman]

Just put this on Skyscraper forum - it's my $$$$ attempt to photoshop the North Bank into the Steve Bull stand - just to show how grand the whole redevelopment will look...

Please ignore the incorrect gangways/vomitorys etc - and the obvious reversal of seat wording - this is just a ROUGH mock-up of how it would look....

 

[JOSWolf]

I would spend around £10 million of the money before the deadline.

 

[TFWanderers]

Just put this on Skyscraper forum - it's my $$$$ attempt to photoshop the North Bank into the Steve Bull stand - just to show how grand the whole redevelopment will look...

Please ignore the incorrect gangways/vomitorys etc - and the obvious reversal of seat wording - this is just a ROUGH mock-up of how it would look....

Looks awesome.

 

[JakeWolves]

Just put this on Skyscraper forum - it's my $$$$ attempt to photoshop the North Bank into the Steve Bull stand - just to show how grand the whole redevelopment will look...

Please ignore the incorrect gangways/vomitorys etc - and the obvious reversal of seat wording - this is just a ROUGH mock-up of how it would look....

Nice. I like the way they've designed the corners so the stands retain some individuality.

 

[Macman]

Also emphasises just how ugly the cladding and steelwork will be at the back of the stands. it will be screaming out for advertising to hide it. Would be even better for Wolves to put graphics on here.

 

[Salisbury Wolf]

The body language between Stale and Connor in the opening two games has been quite interesting. It does give the impression that Solbakken has to put up with him for the time being but would rather not have him around.

I think TC is still here to aid the transition. Once Ståle has his settled team TC will be gone, probably in January. I'll be gobsmacked if he is still here after that.

 

[Oxford_Wolf]

Just put this on Skyscraper forum - it's my $$$$ attempt to photoshop the North Bank into the Steve Bull stand - just to show how grand the whole redevelopment will look...

Please ignore the incorrect gangways/vomitorys etc - and the obvious reversal of seat wording - this is just a ROUGH mock-up of how it would look....

Yep, I'd go with that.

 

[JamesWolves]

Just put this on Skyscraper forum - it's my $$$$ attempt to photoshop the North Bank into the Steve Bull stand - just to show how grand the whole redevelopment will look...

Please ignore the incorrect gangways/vomitorys etc - and the obvious reversal of seat wording - this is just a ROUGH mock-up of how it would look....

looks like a german stadium ! awesome

 

[JamesWolves]

Just put this on Skyscraper forum - it's my $$$$ attempt to photoshop the North Bank into the Steve Bull stand - just to show how grand the whole redevelopment will look...

Please ignore the incorrect gangways/vomitorys etc - and the obvious reversal of seat wording - this is just a ROUGH mock-up of how it would look....

looks like a german stadium ! awesome

 

[dazmanwolf]

What is the obsession with re-building the Steve Bull stand right away?

The money has been 'ring-fenced' as Morgan put it.

Player transfer funds are not providing finance for the stadium redevelopment.

Money generated from gate receipts and merchandising will no doubt go towards it. We were on the brink of relegation and JM & SM decided to lean towards the safer option of postponing the job due to reducted gate revenues IF we were to go down. We did. We now have to increase gate revenue and sustain it before we redevelop anywhere. All the mumblings from some hardcore Wolves fans were indicating that they would not be renewing season tickets or would be boycotting games. The board reacted to this along with all the other negative aspects of relegation.

Seems pretty clear to me. The stands are not exactly rubbish right now compared to many in this league.

The team is the most important financial focal point right now.

 

[Geordie Wolf]

Just put this on Skyscraper forum - it's my $$$$ attempt to photoshop the North Bank into the Steve Bull stand - just to show how grand the whole redevelopment will look...

Please ignore the incorrect gangways/vomitorys etc - and the obvious reversal of seat wording - this is just a ROUGH mock-up of how it would look....

That's great Macman... any chance of a version with the crowd in too?!!

 

[thehistorymakers]

What is the obsession with re-building the Steve Bull stand right away?

The money has been 'ring-fenced' as Morgan put it.

Player transfer funds are not providing finance for the stadium redevelopment.

Money generated from gate receipts and merchandising will no doubt go towards it. We were on the brink of relegation and JM & SM decided to lean towards the safer option of postponing the job due to reducted gate revenues IF we were to go down. We did. We now have to increase gate revenue and sustain it before we redevelop anywhere. All the mumblings from some hardcore Wolves fans were indicating that they would not be renewing season tickets or would be boycotting games. The board reacted to this along with all the other negative aspects of relegation.

Seems pretty clear to me. The stands are not exactly rubbish right now compared to many in this league.

The team is the most important financial focal point right now.

.
the attendance will go down to 22,000.better to do it while we are in the championship.makes sense.
,