Prem 1 and 2

[yateleywolf]

Noticed today that Phil Gartside is trying to get his idea ,once again, off the ground about having two Prem divisions eighteen teams each with Celtic and Rangers included.

Wondered what others think now we are in the Prem. I was really against it when i first heard about it but not so sure now. It could help even out the distribution of money for more clubs making it fairer.

Have two concerns, i do not want the scottish teams in it and secondly it would mean the end of the Championship.

 

[PeteWolf]

There are too few games as it is, we don't need another four less.

 

[glasgowwolf]

No
No
and never ever.

If we want trouble every week..... then get Celtic and Rangers.
Do we really want English teams detrimentaly affected because of none English clubs, me it is called English League, and should only include England clubs. If it was up to me I would kick Cardiff and Swansea out.

 

[rincewind]

I'm reasonably happy with the current set up except for the distribution of money!

 

[MobNet Wolf]

But surely Prem 2 would just become the equivalent of the Championship now? Because TV companies would still only be interested in the top division?

 

[kidder_wolf_II]

It got rejected last year as part of the plan would meen no promoton/relgation into the Premier League 2.

How anyone would want to cut off all those famous sides in League 1 and 2 must a fool and a cancer to football.

 

[PeteWolf]

How anyone would want to cut off all those famous sides in League 1 and 2 must a fool and a cancer to football.

The thought of losing Leeds forever does have its charms.

 

[Wolves in Limerick]

Im of the opinion that it would be one or two of the smaller Scottish clubs that would do well in England, not the auld firm. What have they achieved since the 1960's in Europe. The Aberdeens, Hearts and Hibernians struggle on small resources and for that reason may do reasonably well in England. I would anticipate that if they had to complete with clubs used to significant levels of support Celtic and Rangers would struggle. How long would you consider either of them staying in Division 2 of the Premiership? Scotland is not a level playing field, England is.

 

[PeteWolf]

Im of the opinion that it would be one or two of the smaller Scottish clubs that would do well in England, not the auld firm. What have they achieved since the 1960's in Europe. The Aberdeens, Hearts and Hibernians struggle on small resources and for that reason may do reasonably well in England. I would anticipate that if they had to complete with clubs used to significant levels of support they simply would not survive. How long would you consider either of them staying in Division 2 of the Premiership?

I agree with this. The death of the Scottish League could be the making of Scottish football. Teams like Hearts, Hibs, Dundee Utd and Aberdeen could really start moving forward if they had the glass ceiling of the old firm removed. It would probably help them attract more local fans if they see a better chance of progression as well. For the OF two then I think they may just over-estimate the impact they could have. Look at Newcastle, a club that averages over 50,000 but unless you're run properly then big crowds mean nothing, and Glasgow as a location will struggle to attract the top players just as much as Newcastle has.

 

[kidder_wolf_II]

The thought of losing Leeds forever does have its charms.

I knew that would come up when i typed it.

I wonder if teams like Wigan, Hull, Wolves, Birmingham and Fulham would vote against this format as they came up from the lower leagues or would they all get greedy and look after themselves.

 

[dolmanrj]

Noticed today that Phil Gartside is trying to get his idea ,once again, off the ground about having two Prem divisions eighteen teams each with Celtic and Rangers included.

Wondered what others think now we are in the Prem. I was really against it when i first heard about it but not so sure now. It could help even out the distribution of money for more clubs making it fairer.

Have two concerns, i do not want the scottish teams in it and secondly it would mean the end of the Championship.

Can't be as barmy as Stan Collymores idea a couple of weeks ago on Talksport. A 25 team premier league with only teams who have 'history' in the game and to have more local derbies with teams like Leeds, Derby, Leicester and Forest included. This would also include no promotion or relegation! Needless to say he got some angry calls from Wigan, Bolton etc. fans.

 

[astraltrader]

I would leave the Prem and CCC as it is.


Also it would not be fair on the rest of the Scottish clubs if Rangers and Celtic were ever admitted into our league. The games against them represent the nearest thing to a payday for the other Scottish Div one clubs

 

[glastofreak]

This idea would be very bad for football. How would the ''top two'' divisions be organised? attendance, history or who has the most money. Cast you minds back to the 80's where we were in div 4 about to go out of business would a no promotion policy be a good idea? I would sooner be relegated and albion be promoted than see an unfair leage were it does not matter how $$$$$$ you were but still stay in the league. Look at the teams in the lower leagues that have fallen from the prem or the old div 1 it would be a very sad day for football if any team cut from the special few had no chance of making it to the land of milk and honey. What would be the point of any football below prem 2? Where would the the future english players come from? Sorry but if this happend it would be a the compleation of total coprorate football.

 

[wolvo_boi]

As others have said what would be the point of any competetive full time teams below the 2 leagues. Teams like Burnley, Hull, Wigan, Stoke have reached the big time after years of trying Hull and Wigan in particular who have in recent years been in the bottom tier and now made it to the top. Would they still even be a professional football team if this was the case..........?

I think not!!!

 

[wolf of sedgley]

I notice David Moyes seems to be a fan of the idea:

"I'd like to see it because I'm a Scotsman and I think it would be great to see Celtic and Rangers initially in a Premier League Two," said Moyes.
"TV would be interested, media would be interested and the crowds at every ground in the country would increase."
Moyes added: "Both Celtic and Rangers have as big a support as any team in England. From that point of view it would help the game in England if we need a boost in revenue."

"I would rather this than an Atlantic league, or some other European league," said Moyes, a former Celtic player. "We have Welsh teams playing in English football so why not Scottish?
"The Scottish teams are really, really big clubs and I feel it would be good for everyone"

No it wouldn't you jock prat!

 

[yateleywolf]

I see no one agrees with the idea and if there is no promotion/relegation from Prem 1/Prem 2/FL than i wouldn`t agree with it either. But i reckon there will be changes and basically renaming the Championship to Prem 2 and giving these clubs some more of the money from Sky will narrow the gap.

 

[cooper_J]

This Prem 2 idea is just a way of hoodwinking gullable people into allowing Celtic and Rangers into English football.

The Prem 2 is simply a rebranding of the Championship with different names. If these plans were to get the go ahead - and I'm unsure as to whether the no relegation isuue has been sorted - then the only winners will be the people who make money out of the game.

It's bad enough already having to watch your team play at 5.30 on a Saturday night, meaning you won't be home until after 11 - effectively ruining your evening. As it stands people don't give a toss about the fans, this new idea would only make it worse.

Why is it that men in suits get to make these huge decisions? It is us, the fans, who effectively own football. Without us, everything would fall apart. Our loyalty is taken for granted and used against us. There needs to be a seachange of attitude but with the amount of money in the game, I can never see it happening. It's us who suffer.

 

[SBDJ]

I am against it but should it happen Celtic and Rangers should start at the very bottom of the English football pyrimid. That's what would happen for any other club, Milton keynes excepted.

However, something does have to give. The present set up makes smaller PL clubs like Wolves extremely vulnerable to financial trouble if they are relegated yet committed to spending vast sums of cash in order to try and stay in the league. It's too much of a gamble and something needs to be done to level the playing field. This does not need to include Rangers and Celtic though

 

[wallace]

just call it division 1 and division 2. the premiership name is just media hype. if scottish clubs come into the fold it should be for all, not just rangers and celtic and with the introduction of these teams from across the border hadrians wall might come into use again as thousands of scots try to take our cities again.

 

[glasgowwolf]

This is joist another way of running England for Scotland. Why should an English club be denied the chance of making it to the prem because 2 places are taken up by Scottish clubs. We should be going further and removing Cardiff, and Swansea and letting them play in Scotland.

Yet another reason to put your general election support behind http://www.englishdemocraticparty.org.uk/

 

[scottishwolf II]

This is joist another way of running England for Scotland.

Do you really think its a political move? Are you that naieve? This is about money and nothing else.

Why should an English club be denied the chance of making it to the prem because 2 places are taken up by Scottish clubs. We should be going further and removing Cardiff, and Swansea and letting them play in Scotland.

Good amount of poor logic in there - you should believe on thing or other Glasgow, makes you sound like you know what you are talking about.

Yet another reason to put your general election support behind http://www.englishdemocraticparty.org.uk/

Priceless - I've literally been laughing for 5 minutes about that. Have you actually read the junk on that website?

 

[Mugwump]

Celtics fan base is massive, bigger than rangers. Support wise it would be a good move but i cant see it working myself. They wont give up champions league football every season to move to a league where they will have to win promotion from to play with the big boys.

 

[Phoenix]

It's a "pull the ladder up Jack" idea from a snivelling, self preserving chairman and should be given the contempt it deserves.

Yet another reason to put your general election support behind http://www.englishdemocraticparty.org.uk/

Is that real? I'm not sure whether I am being reeled in or not?

 

[MobNet Wolf]

This is joist another way of running England for Scotland. Why should an English club be denied the chance of making it to the prem because 2 places are taken up by Scottish clubs. We should be going further and removing Cardiff, and Swansea and letting them play in Scotland.

Yet another reason to put your general election support behind http://www.englishdemocraticparty.org.uk/

Ok we know you aren't a massive fan of the Scots or Welsh, but is there any need to promote an obscure political party in a football forum? Pathetic. Take your agendas and leave them in the OT forum.

 

[Ross wwfc]

http://www.englishdemocraticparty.org.uk/

oh dear...

 

[Bossworld]

$$$$ the scotts off, and increase it to five relegation places to/from the PL, should liven it up and stop the 17th place mentality.

 

[MobNet Wolf]

$$$$ the scotts off, and increase it to five relegation places to/from the PL, should liven it up and stop the 17th place mentality.

And create a 15th place mentality?

 

[Westport Wolf]

Bring back Canon League Division 1, 2, 3 and 4. Premier league, championship? Pah!
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PiOWWIUE04"]YouTube- 1982-1983 'The Big Match' - West Ham v Man Utd[/ame]

Real football, as was (apart from our status) and should always be. Money has ruined the game.

 

[Bossworld]

And create a 15th place mentality?

I see what you're saying mate, but looking at the previous tables, there's teams clinging on by the skin of their teeth. Now, with previous tables, 5 places would make it more interesting, but the flip side I suppose is that if a team knew 16th would relegate them, it would change it yet again. Still, I think having a quarter of the league up for swap would mean the likes of Bolton/Blackburn etc would have a lot more of a fight on their hands, and it would reduce the also-rans dependency on the promoted teams struggling, as they'd be in the thick of it too.

 

[O.W.E.I]

Bring back League Division 1, 2, 3 and 4. Premier league, championship? Pah!

Bang on.

This is just Gartside trying to keep his nasty little nothing club in the money.

Our division should be reduced by one team - Bolton back to where they belong in the Papua New Guinea C League.

 

[Seasider]

Yet another reason to put your general election support behind http://www.englishdemocraticparty.org.uk/

This is a joke, yes?

 

[glasgowwolf]

This is a joke, yes?

Why would it be a joke, England is run for Scotland and Wales not for England.

Scotland already gets more money Per head than England, costing everyone who works in England £1200 per year.

Scottish MP's representing a scottish consituency, and Welsh mp's representing a Welsh consituency can vote on any issue affecting only England.......

We are now looking at 2 English clubs losing out to satisfy 2 scottish clubs lust for money, that makes 4 English clubs losing out to non English clubs IN THE ENGLISH LEAGUES. It is not British leagues, it is English league, for English clubs and there supporters.

England is being run for everyone else barring England

 

[derbyrameater]

NO for me.
It now becomes clear why they called it the Premier League when there was only one division, to allow in the future for the creation of a div 2 so it then becomes a league.

I know there are anomalies, Berwick, Cardiff and Swansea for example but I think this would stengthen the arm of FIFA UEFA and others who want just one team from the UK.

If it was to happen what div would they be parachuted into? IMO it has to be rock bottom. The Prem Div isnn`t bothered about those murky depths, which to make it more paletable is why they would create a div 2 so if they go ahead with this farce they would put them in there.

Some media along with Arseside seem to be saying that the reason for this proposal is to highlight the difference in revenue between the top four and the rest "Last season, Manchester United were the biggest earners from the Premier League's broadcasting pot with £51.5m. Relegated Middlesbrough earned the least with £30.95m.". http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/nov/11/premier-league-two-tier-old-firm

I think that is total $$$$$$$$, if he wants to address the financial anomaly which exists it doesn`t need Scottish clubs bought into the equation, and I don`t see Arseside saying more should go to Div 3 etc

Stop the press, they have just said NO....

 

[Hereford Wolf]

Yet another reason to put your general election support behind http://www.englishdemocraticparty.org.uk/

Funniest thing I've seen on t'interweb for years.
Very slick and well presented.....!

 

[SaleWolf]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/nov/12/rangers-celtic-english-premier-league

Celtic and Rangers plan rejected but Prem 1 and Prem 2 idea still a possibility.

 

[jrpb-3]

A prem 1 2 with no promotion relegation from the lower leagues would be a disaster for smaller clubs, e.g I club winning the "third" division would be in dangr of losing its best plays to the prem clubs as that is the ony way they would be able to get to play there, leaving them to rebuild next season, no real prize for winning the lower leagues, the only plus side I can see is that t may mean players in prem 2 would be willing to play for less money just to stay with the prem clubs. Killing of any real competition in the lower leagues can only be bad for English football as a whole in the long run

 

[White wolf]

As others have said what would be the point of any competetive full time teams below the 2 leagues.

It was like this in Germany a few years ago not sure what it's like now. There was only 2 full-time professional leagues and the rest were semi-professional. The idea is madness.

 

[northnorfolkwolf]

I,m sure we discussed this a while ago. Say now what I said then. Celtic and Rangers are more than welcome to join 'down south' in the Blue Square, or whatever it's called. They can then try to work their way up, just as we had to do during the 90s. I'd love to see them down at Chippenham Town!!!!

 

[MonkeySpanner]

It's BS! He just wants to eliminate the chance of Bolton getting relegated. There are so many things wrong with his idea.

Can you imagine the violence that would occur by letting Celtic and Rangers into the English league.
If the shoe was on the other foot Scotland would'nt even contemplate letting English teams into their league.
It would be the death of Scottish football.
Why should two English teams be displaced by two Scottish teams.
If it were to happen it would be the death of any teams not included in the two Prem leagues.

I could go on and on.

Scotland needs to reinvent it's own league system and make it more atractive for everyone in Scotland. How about a cap on players wages and transfer fees. Those who go over have to pay a financial penalty which is distributed to the other teams in the league, a bit like in baseball in the U.S. This way if Celtic and Rangers want to overspend then they have to compensate the other teams thus allowing them more money to spend themselves.

As for the Prem, how about allowing promoted teams two years grace. That way they would not have to worry about relegation the first year and would benefit from a guaranteed two years of money from the Premiership which would allow them to spend more their first year on players.

 

[broughtonwolf]

Predictably Jez Moxey was one of the no votes.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/8353937.stm

"Wolves chief executive Jez Moxey added: "It's the English Premier League. It's our product and we're working on our product. The Premier League clubs have made their decision and we move on. We wanted clarity and we've got clarity."