Non Profit Community Football Club

[Supadavewolf]

And where is your season ticket?

Mine's in the bedroom.

 

[VancouverWolf]

You clearly haven’t listened to Jeff. He doesn’t say Newcastle can spend and we can’t. He says they can spend more, but not much more. A big difference.

Your biggest complaint appears to be that your season ticket has gone up but that your £725 hasn’t be used to buy several £multi-million players. Notwithstanding, as others have pointed out, that the club have to pay far more than £725 to put on a football match. Just for your reference if you sat in the Steve Bull Upper or Billy Wright in 2003 you would have been charged £493 or £527 respectively if you were an existing season ticket holder. This equates to £830 or £888 in todays money and I am sure you can agree that Fosun’s transfer spends have been considerably better than Haywards and Moxey’s pathetic efforts that season.

The more I read this debate it feels more like a group of people who like to belong to a small tribe and will jealously defend the village against all newcomers and do their best to ostracise them. Meanwhile the rest of the world moves on and new empires are built and new technologies developed. The village however sticks to what it knows and keeps out this new technology because it’s new and different. It may even be dangerous. Why do you need central heating if you’ve got an open fire. Gradually the village becomes more and more irrelevant and ignored by the rest of the world but the tribe is happy with that as there’s nothing wrong with how they’ve always lived and anyway the rest of the world is evil and will soon learn the error of their ways and see that the tribe was right all along. The world decides to leave the tribe to their own devices to become a living museum pieces to demonstrate the rest of the world the folly of not embracing change.

Hahaha…..oh dear…..you didn’t pull any punches, did you?
Great post.

 

[wolf1975]

This is getting embarrassing now.

Your point about the top 25 is.....proof that Fosun's approach has been working. As I said in a previous post, they have raised our spending ceiling....that comes from...yes....raising revenue. How have we gotten into the top 25 clubs? How long have we been there? And, crucially, will a Wolves who lost less revenue (ironically because of smaller stadium and lower costs) than many other clubs during the pandemic still be in the top 25 when those clubs have a full year of normal revenue again?

You are looking only at players on the pitch -even then Bawtry Wolf has pointed out Fosun are giving us better value in that regard than previous owners- but it has been explained to you repeatedly that there are other costs involved, and that costs across the board are rising. You keep asking me to ask Jeff things that...were already addressed by him in the video, and you've asked me a season ticket question again that I answered in the first place?

I think it's time the rest of us stopped biting. You're either a WUM or just throw out opinions without reading posts/watching the videos.

Jay - i actually like your points and it is hard to articulate on here so apologies if i'm coming across the wrong way.

I made a point about Community Non Profit to grab attention but my issue is linked to that.

Please just answer these 3 questionsL:

- where is your season ticket?

- why did FOSUN raise loyal regular fans tickets to raise only 1 million

- what is our net spend over the last 2 transfer window?

Do we keep accepting price rises and handing our hard earned money over? ( more statement than question )

 

[wolf1975]

Why do we need Fosun?

Because Wolves would still be in the lower leaagues.

When they considered buying a football club, ( in other words…when we won the lottery), they invested money to upgrade the players, amenities, the pitch etc.
After that, a good businessman will not keep throwing money into it, ( unless he has an emotional reason).

Jeez.

I have said a number of times.

Not questioned what they have done - i'm questioning what they are doing.

 

[wolf1975]

Hahaha…..oh dear…..you didn’t pull any punches, did you?
Great post.

Where is your seasonticket situated Vancouver wolf?

 

[JayStringer]

Jay - i actually like your points and it is hard to articulate on here so apologies if i'm coming across the wrong way.

I made a point about Community Non Profit to grab attention but my issue is linked to that.

Please just answer these 3 questionsL:

- where is your season ticket?

- why did FOSUN raise loyal regular fans tickets to raise only 1 million

- what is our net spend over the last 2 transfer window?

Do we keep accepting price rises and handing our hard earned money over? ( more statement than question )

Embarrassing WUM. Read through the posts.

 

[wolf1975]

Embarrassing WUM. Read through the posts.

If im embarrassing answer the questions. They must be simple.

 

[Deleted member drgr12429]

It was £449 to renew in 18/19 but I should have said 5 years not 4.

17/18 - £345
22/23 - £590

71% rise.

In the 2017/18 we were in the championship. There was a 100 quid rise the next season as we got the PL, and lots of expensive players were bought. I don't think anyone complained that season.
So from 449 to 590 in 4 years is 31.5%. Pretty much in line with almost everything you buy. From 23.63 per match to 31.05 per match.
In 4 years the racing circuit i go to has gone from 40 a day to 60 per day each.
It was never going to stay the same forever, nothing does.

 

[VancouverWolf]

Where is your seasonticket situated Vancouver wolf?

Oh come on. That’s a silly comment . You know damn well I don’t have one but so you took an immature way of deflecting my post to your question…
why do we need Fosun?

 

[JayStringer]

If im embarrassing answer the questions. They must be simple.

So simple that they have, in fact, been answered. You just don't read the posts. Muted.

 

[Bawtry Wolf]

No. I have no problem with change.

One question.

Why would FOSUN raise ST prices to the loyal fan for an extar 1 million?

There are loyal fans who have season tickets and there loyal fans who don’t. There are loyal fans who don’t go to games but buy merchandise or even membership should we charge them more to subsidise season tickets? Perhaps you would prefer that whenever the club sells some merchandise they ask whether you are a season ticket holder or not. If not then you are charged an extra £5 or £10 to ensure that season tickets don’t rise.

To keep banging on that it’s only £1m. Perhaps Wolves have spoken to the gas and electricity companies for example and said could they knock £1m off the bill. As for people’s claims finishing 10th rather than 8th equated to a greater loss are correct but it’s irrelevant. People seem to forget that season ticket prices came out before the Norwich game where a victory would have guaranteed 8th.

 

[Deleted member drgr12429]

Jay - i actually like your points and it is hard to articulate on here so apologies if i'm coming across the wrong way.

I made a point about Community Non Profit to grab attention but my issue is linked to that.

Please just answer these 3 questionsL:

- where is your season ticket?

- why did FOSUN raise loyal regular fans tickets to raise only 1 million

- what is our net spend over the last 2 transfer window?

Do we keep accepting price rises and handing our hard earned money over? ( more statement than question )

Do you need a season ticket to post here?

I don't know. Give Jeff a shout and ask him.

21/22 In 33.84m Out 28.62m Total net spent 5.22m

Either you go or don't. Because it's your choice.

 

[wolf1975]

Oh come on. That’s a silly comment . You know damn well I don’t have one but so you took an immature way of deflecting my post to your question…
why do we need Fosun?

Genuinely didn’t know. Apologies

 

[VancouverWolf]

Genuinely didn’t know. Apologies

Hey…..that’s big of you but it’s all good anyway.

 

[Stoichkov]

So your happy with Top 10

Yes

I have been asked to pay £785 this year. You?

£590

Name me all the signings and their value from the last 2 transfer windows.

Jose Sa - £30m
RAN - £25m
Hwang - £5m

Do I win £5? Any more riveting questions?

 

[Deleted member drgr12429]

Yes



£590




Jose Sa - £30m
RAN - £25m
Hwang - £5m

Do I win £5? Any more riveting questions?

Sa 6.8m, RAN 10m, Hwang 12m. Just putting that right, no disrespect to you.

 

[wolf1975]

There are loyal fans who have season tickets and there loyal fans who don’t. There are loyal fans who don’t go to games but buy merchandise or even membership should we charge them more to subsidise season tickets? Perhaps you would prefer that whenever the club sells some merchandise they ask whether you are a season ticket holder or not. If not then you are charged an extra £5 or £10 to ensure that season tickets don’t rise.

To keep banging on that it’s only £1m. Perhaps Wolves have spoken to the gas and electricity companies for example and said could they knock £1m off the bill. As for people’s claims finishing 10th rather than 8th equated to a greater loss are correct but it’s irrelevant. People seem to forget that season ticket prices came out before the Norwich game where a victory would have guaranteed 8th.

Yes



£590




Jose Sa - £30m
RAN - £25m
Hwang - £5m

Do I win £5? Any more riveting questions?

Think you have overstated Sa and RAN and understated Hwang.

 

[Hot Fuss]

In the 2017/18 we were in the championship. There was a 100 quid rise the next season as we got the PL, and lots of expensive players were bought. I don't think anyone complained that season.
So from 449 to 590 in 4 years is 31.5%. Pretty much in line with almost everything you buy. From 23.63 per match to 31.05 per match.
In 4 years the racing circuit i go to has gone from 40 a day to 60 per day each.
It was never going to stay the same forever, nothing does.

In line with everything? Really? Is the “product” I got in 2018/19 better than the “product” I got in 21/22?? That I’m paying 30% more for???

This racing circuit you go to, where is it?

 

[whitnash wolf ex.dewsbury]

Yes



£590




Jose Sa - £30m
RAN - £25m
Hwang - £5m

Do I win £5? Any more riveting questions?

how many went into the Titanic?

 

[Stoichkov]

Think you have overstated Sa and RAN and understated Hwang.

Really? I think they’re fair given performances

 

[Stoichkov]

Sa 6.8m, RAN 10m, Hwang 12m. Just putting that right, no disrespect to you.

pardon? I was asked for signings and their value, not what they cost

No disrespect to you

 

[bod101]

But that’s my point. Why do we need owners if self sustaining?

Because they use their expertise, as an investment company to grow the income, why does anything have an owner?

 

[wolf1975]

Because they use their expertise, as an investment company to grow the income, why does anything have an owner?

You hit the nail on the head there “ investment company “

Their aim is to increase profit not win things.

As a football fan I go to win things.

It’s not just us. It’s football in general.

It’s entertainment now rather than sport.

Two scenarios: which would fans choose and which would Fosun choose

7th place but 200m generated by brand

Or

Win league but will only 100m generated as focused on football

They have managed expectations elitely.

Never forget football is a sport. Aim to win. Not the fans concern about balance sheets or sustainability..

Net spend last two windows? And they raise ticket prices significantly for 4th year to generate an extra 1m.

For me that shows what Fosun think of fans who actually “ support wolves”

 

[WickedWolfie]

You hit the nail on the head there “ investment company “

Their aim is to increase profit not win things.

As a football fan I go to win things.

It’s not just us. It’s football in general.

It’s entertainment now rather than sport.

Two scenarios: which would fans choose and which would Fosun choose

7th place but 200m generated by brand

Or

Win league but will only 100m generated as focused on football

They have managed expectations elitely.

Never forget football is a sport. Aim to win. Not the fans concern about balance sheets or sustainability..

Net spend last two windows? And they raise ticket prices significantly for 4th year to generate an extra 1m.

For me that shows what Fosun think of fans who actually “ support wolves”

It is very easy to posit two hypothetical scenarios neither of which are likely to be anywhere near reality.

Firstly, if you look at the spend of Citeh and the Dippers there is no way that £100M additional expenditure would win us the league as opposed to finishing 7th. That wouldn't even buy one top player. Secondly of course fans would love vast expenditure and dirt cheap tickets - there is a reason that doesn't happen at any English club....

Oh, and l would disagree with you that football is now primarily about entertainment, albeit l agree that it is not solely sport any longer. At the top level football clubs are businesses first and foremost. Entertainment comes second to that.

 

[wolf1975]

I started a post yesterday which didn’t get my point across.

So 2 scenarios. As a fan what would you choose and what would FOSUN choose:

Option 1:

Wolves found a secret sauce where they win the title, and FA Cup, kept season tickets at same prices and this model was sustainable but carried profit of 50 million. But focused on football.

Option 2:

Wolves finish outside too 6 for next ten years but generate150 million profit as brand developed through music, exports and raising ticket prices.

As a fan what would you choose and what would Fosun?

 

[bod101]

You hit the nail on the head there “ investment company “

Their aim is to increase profit not win things.

As a football fan I go to win things.

It’s not just us. It’s football in general.

It’s entertainment now rather than sport.

Two scenarios: which would fans choose and which would Fosun choose

7th place but 200m generated by brand

Or

Win league but will only 100m generated as focused on football

They have managed expectations elitely.

Never forget football is a sport. Aim to win. Not the fans concern about balance sheets or sustainability..

Net spend last two windows? And they raise ticket prices significantly for 4th year to generate an extra 1m.

For me that shows what Fosun think of fans who actually “ support wolves”

But they've said grow the income so we can spend more within the rules, you seem to have forgot that part. So if they get more coming in we spend more.

I don't think last season's spending was done well at all, but previously seasons the model worked ok for me, granted would be nice to able to spend more but thems the breaks.

If you can only spend within what you bring in, ie ffp I'm not sure how your "non profit" really makes much difference to what is happening now.

 

[wolf1975]

pardon? I was asked for signings and their value, not what they cost

No disrespect to you

Got zq

But they've said grow the income so we can spend more within the rules, you seem to have forgot that part. So if they get more coming in we spend more.

I don't think last season's spending was done well at all, but previously seasons the model worked ok for me, granted would be nice to able to spend more but thems the breaks.

If you can only spend within what you bring in, ie ffp I'm not sure how your "non profit" really makes much difference to what is happening now.

I have just posted a new thread which hopefully explains what I’m tryi
H to say a bit better

 

[theweave]

I started a post yesterday which didn’t get my point across.

So 2 scenarios. As a fan what would you choose and what would FOSUN choose:

Option 1:

Wolves found a secret sauce where they win the title, and FA Cup, kept season tickets at same prices and this model was sustainable but carried profit of 50 million. But focused on football.

Option 2:

Wolves finish outside too 6 for next ten years but generate150 million profit as brand developed through music, exports and raising ticket prices.

As a fan what would you choose and what would Fosun?

Does the first one involve some magic beans?

 

[Black Country Wanderer]

Think your destined not to get your point across my friend
You cant just post 2 loaded questions and expect a valid discussion im afraid

 

[WickedWolfie]

You posit two unrealistic scenarios but l will humour you.

Fans would of course choose the first option was it possible (and no one has successfully done that yet). I'm not sure that Fosun, or indeed any owner, would choose option two. They would surely want some level of sporting success too. However, past precedent at many clubs suggests that any owners would wish to increasingly profit from success too.

 

[wolf1975]

Does the first one involve some magic beans?

Possibly. Your answer?

 

[wolf1975]

You posit two unrealistic scenarios but l will humour you.

Fans would of course choose the first option was it possible (and no one has successfully done that yet). I'm not sure that Fosun, or indeed any owner, would choose option two. They would surely want some level of sporting success too. However, past precedent at many clubs suggests that any owners would wish to increasingly profit from success too.

That’s my point I’m pretty certain Fosun would take increase in brand and profit.

I might be wrong.

Just my take.

 

[wolf1975]

Think your destined not to get your point across my friend
You cant just post 2 loaded questions and expect a valid discussion im afraid

They were questions they were scenarios.

Why do t people answer?

For me fans is 1 and Fosun 2 but people won’t face upto it.

 

[Mutchy]

They were questions they were scenarios.

Why do t people answer?

For me fans is 1 and Fosun 2 but people won’t face upto it.

You've posted two extremes though. What about any middle ground?

 

[WickedWolfie]

That’s my point I’m pretty certain Fosun would take increase in brand and profit.

I might be wrong.

Just my take.

I am well aware that is your take. I don't happen to agree as l made clear. Think that l will leave it there.

 

[wolf1975]

You've posted two extremes though. What about any middle ground?

That was the point. There might be a middle ground.

What are your two answers Mutchy?

 

[wolf1975]

I am well aware that is your take. I don't happen to agree as l made clear. Think that l will leave it there.

What have you seen in the last 2 years. Please convince me.

I have 5 days to make my mind up.

40 years a wolves fan and need to decide on ST

 

[Black Country Wanderer]

Ill try and help you out here, as your obviously frustrated at not getting the answers you want to hear
Your premise is based on a fantasy scenario
A non profit based successful club,they dont exist

The days of the Jack Haywards have long gone,and even with him we spent 19 years in the Championship ,and when eventually he achieved his dream he pulled the plug and sold up

Your not happy with Fosun,i understand that and thats fine,but your assumptions that they are just creaming off the top and not investing are wrong
They have invested and got us to where we are now,they may be tightening the purse strings but they are still investing

Will they sell up and make a profit? Quite possibly thats good business,but it wont happen anytime soon
Do we all like to see our team win games? Of course we do,but we also realise we are not a top 6 team yet and bad runs will happen
Are we happy to be a mid table team in the Prem? Mainly yes we are,again of course we would love to win something,but its been almost 40 years since we won anything of note, and longer since we achieved what we have in the elite league,so dont expect much better in the near future

We can all dream but realism needs to be in there somewhere

 

[Wonder Boyo]

 

[wolf1975]

Two scenarios seeing what people think Fosun main objective is and I can’t get straight answers? ‍