Non Profit Community Football Club

[Mutchy]

Not necessarily. The Wolves brand could earn more without the club being in the top 6.

We buy players with marketing appeal.

Hence the 2 options.

What option do you think fans and Fosun would choose?

Not sure why people can’t say!

You're making your own terms and allowances, yet you won't allow that posters want to include their own. Thats why you aren't getting straight answers.

 

[wolf1975]

If thats your take, you already have your own answer.
But you can't impose your own view or hypothetical question onto others and automatically expect them to answer in the same terms.

I don’t want people to agree as mentioned a number of times.

People are responding but not answering.

If those 2 options were given to fans they would choose trophies.

What would Fosun choose from n your opinion?

It’s 1 or 2. Not difficult.

 

[wolf1975]

You're making your own terms and allowances, yet you won't allow that posters want to include their own. Thats why you aren't getting straight answers.

Jeez. I asked the question.

If somebody sells choc or vanilla you can’t ask for strawberry.

The lack of direct answers is astonishing.

It’s a two way scenario.

What would Fosun choose?

 

[jrpb-3]

In terms of these 2 alternatives

Winning matches or building a brand and being sustainable via a company creaming profit at little risk.


Creaming off profit isn't sustainable. If profit was being taken out of the company then there would be no money to spend on new players etc. with disastrous results, but that's not what's happening. They are aiming for sustainability

You are giving a choice of either winning matches or being sustainable/profit making. Well in that scenario winning won't continue for very long if losses are being made (i.e. not profit) or revenues overall aren't being increased, secondly making a profit and winning matches aren't mutually exclusive.


So what I want is for prices to be set at realistic levels that give reasonable value for money in comparison to other similar clubs etc. I want to see the club being run of sensibly and sustainably in terms of finances.

I want to see the football side of the club being run as well as possible so that within the above parameters we can be as successful on the pitch as we can be, with a long term view of increasing that success

 

[Wonder Boyo]

You're making your own terms and allowances, yet you won't allow that posters want to include their own. Thats why you aren't getting straight answers.

 

[Mutchy]

Jeez. I asked the question.

If somebody sells choc or vanilla you can’t ask for strawberry.

The lack of direct answers is astonishing.

It’s a two way scenario.

What would Fosun choose?

You've loaded the questions! I'm sorry, but if you can't see that...

 

[Deleted member drgr12429]

Jeez. I asked the question.

If somebody sells choc or vanilla you can’t ask for strawberry.

The lack of direct answers is astonishing.

It’s a two way scenario.

What would Fosun choose?

Ask Fosun. They will give you an answer.

 

[WickedWolfie]

Jeez. I asked the question.

If somebody sells choc or vanilla you can’t ask for strawberry.

The lack of direct answers is astonishing.

It’s a two way scenario.

What would Fosun choose?

Don't you get it, we don't think that either chocolate or vanilla is the answer.

 

[Eastyorksyeltz]

Jeez. I asked the question.

If somebody sells choc or vanilla you can’t ask for strawberry.

The lack of direct answers is astonishing.

It’s a two way scenario.

What would Fosun choose?

This is getting really boring now. If you are seriously pursuing this in order to decide about season ticket renewal, as you say somewhere in the many posts above, I would say give it up, for the sake your own health.

 

[wolf1975]

Ask Fosun. They will give you an answer.

They have answered it for me but nobody want to answer.

Don't you get it, we don't think that either chocolate or vanilla is the answer.

I’m not asking what you want I’m asking if Fosun could pick it me if the scenarios which would the pick

Trophies and profit

Or

Bigger brand and more profit

It’s not difficult.

 

[Deleted member drgr12429]

They have answered it for me.

Ok. Then why are you continually asking the same question?

 

[jrpb-3]

They have answered it for me but nobody want to answer.


I’m not asking what you want I’m asking if Fosun could pick it me if the scenarios which would the pick

Trophies and profit

Or

Bigger brand and more profit

It’s not difficult.

if Fosun could pick then they would chose Trophies, profit and the bigger brand and more profit that came with that

If the choice was winning a trophy next season but putting the club at big financial risk for the future or continuing with the sustainable approach then I hope they would rightly choose the latter. If they could had a crystal ball and could see into the future that spending big would guarantee a trophy win and would then allow continues success then they would choose trophies (unfortunately, no one can guarantee the not for profit approach would result in trophies

 

[Mutchy]

They have answered it for me but nobody want to answer.


I’m not asking what you want I’m asking if Fosun could pick it me if the scenarios which would the pick

Trophies and profit

Or

Bigger brand and more profit

It’s not difficult.

They aren't exclusive. Trophies increase the brand and profits too.

 

[Black Country Wanderer]

They have answered it for me but nobody want to answer.


I’m not asking what you want I’m asking if Fosun could pick it me if the scenarios which would the pick

Trophies and profit

Or

Bigger brand and more profit

It’s not difficult.

Ok for the sake of it
They would choose Trophies and profit as that in turn would give greater exposure and hence even more profit is that enough lol?

 

[VancouverWolf]

They have answered it for me but nobody want to answer.


I’m not asking what you want I’m asking if Fosun could pick it me if the scenarios which would the pick

Trophies and profit

Or

Bigger brand and more profit

It’s not difficult.

Please read this…..

Nobody on the Mix knows what Fosun would do………NOBODY.

If 99% of us say that Fosun would choose profits , that won’t help you. Why?

Because we’d be guessing.


However, consider this.
Fosun have a good track record of investing in the club and not taking money out. ( Compared to the Glaziers who loaded United with massive debts and used that money outside the club).

 

[Supadavewolf]

If somebody sells choc or vanilla you can’t ask for strawberry.

I was hoping for raspberry ripple.

Although maybe this thread has caused enough ripples already.

 

[wolf1975]

I was hoping for raspberry ripple.

Although maybe this thread has caused enough ripples already.

I ate all the raspberry ripple

 

[wolf1975]

Please read this…..

Nobody on the Mix knows what Fosun would do………NOBODY.

If 99% of us say that Fosun would choose profits , that won’t help you. Why?

Because we’d be guessing.


However, consider this.
Fosun have a good track record of investing in the club and not taking money out. ( Compared to the Glaziers who loaded United with massive debts and used that money outside the club).

Nobody knows who we are signing but doesn’t stop people giving their thought.

What’s the point of this forum if opinions can’t be given or asked.

 

[WickedWolfie]

Nobody knows who we are signing but doesn’t stop people giving their thought.

What’s the point of this forum if opinions can’t be given or asked.

You are perfectly entitled to ask. Others are perfectly entitled to ignore your question.

 

[VancouverWolf]

Nobody knows who we are signing but doesn’t stop people giving their thought.

What’s the point of this forum if opinions can’t be given or asked.

There’s no problem with you asking…of course not. And nobody is suggesting you don’t post.
But whether you should or shouldn’t buy ST is for you alone to decide.
If you do get the ST, Jeff will just put it into general revenue.

 

[wolf1975]

You are perfectly entitled to ask. Others are perfectly entitled to ignore your question.

Yes. Ignore is fine but rephrasing the question to answer to fit their thoughts isn’t game either.

Answer or ignore.

I used to do that in exams.

 

[wolf1975]

There’s no problem with you asking…of course not. And nobody is suggesting you don’t post.
But whether you should or shouldn’t buy ST is for you alone to decide.
If you do get the ST, Jeff will just put it into general revenue.

Yes. Guess that’s my point and just wanted peoples thoughts.

Anyway. Time this thread ended.

People don’t seem to want to answer so no stress.

 

[wolvesaywe]

And this is the brainwashing that has gone on

Fans happy to be best of the rest.

Breeds epathy and accepting 2nd best.

Fans pay more to watch this whilst players, management and owners make big money.

Football is about winning things.

End of.

Football is tribal. Always has been. It is now becoming entertainment.

If anything grinds my gears it's being told I'm brainwashed because I don't believe in a conspiracy theory

And that's all this is

 

[VancouverWolf]

Yes. Guess that’s my point and just wanted peoples thoughts.

Anyway. Time this thread ended.

People don’t seem to want to answer so no stress.

Many posters were trying to help you and many did answer you although you weren’t satisfied.

As to the ST, maybe this will be an exciting season. Some new players in and some out….if nothing else the dynamics of the team will change.
Players rested up and hopefully , injuries in the past…..for now.
And Bruno, with a PL season’s experience may have some new ideas about scoring goals.
I feel confident assuming that nobody at Wolves wants to see the goal drought that we had the last two seasons so that might change.

 

[JonahWolf]

Ok for the sake of it
They would choose Trophies and profit as that in turn would give greater exposure and hence even more profit is that enough lol?

There you go. That’s the answer. That’s what FSG chose at Liverpool. Because they already have/had a massive global brand and accompanying revenue, they just needed to squeeze out the best use of it via top level executive, manager and players.
It was possible, so they did it.

They still tried to join the super league and hike ticket prices, because they wanted more or more guaranteed profit. They’re also willing to give up at least one of their best forwards if it endangers their bottom line through wage demands.
Reality.

 

[wolf1975]

in 2016 they purchased the club for 30 million pounds.

Does anybody know the total in those 6 years for :

Total Income:

Total Outgoings:

Debt on Balance Sheet 2016:

Debt on Balance Sheet 2022:

Club Valuation Today:

I did look for this information but I don't understand the financial statement's in that detail t be confident.

Thanks in Advance.

 

[Deleted member drgr12429]

Here we go again......

 

[Flump]

It's impossible to work out the valuation, as that really depends on how many people are interested in buying.

In that time they haven't taken a penny out of the club, if that's what you're wanting to know.

 

[Kebab Warrior]

Thise words again. Stability and long term.

How about they INVEST some money now and not just rise season ticket prices.

I hope i'm wrong but this model is all about maximising profit not winning things with Wolves.

You misspelt SPEND and put INVEST by mistake.

 

[wolf1975]

Here we go again......

Shut up and just pay your money right?

What is wrong with that question?

 

[wolf1975]

It's impossible to work out the valuation, as that really depends on how many people are interested in buying.

In that time they haven't taken a penny out of the club, if that's what you're wanting to know.

Nope. Just asking if anybody knows these answers.

Why does everybody thin there is an angle.

I dont have the answers but know some people do and track this - so just asking.

 

[Deleted member drgr12429]

Shut up and just pay your money right?

What is wrong with that question?

We've already had a 5 page thread of you demanding answers. It's clear why you are asking. Maybe you decide if you want to support the club and buy a season ticket. I, or anyone one else aren't telling you to do anything.
All the answers in the world aren't making the decision for you.

 

[Sussex Wolf]

in 2016 they purchased the club for 30 million pounds.

Does anybody know the total in those 6 years for :

Total Income:

Total Outgoings:

Debt on Balance Sheet 2016:

Debt on Balance Sheet 2022:

Club Valuation Today:

I did look for this information but I don't understand the financial statement's in that detail t be confident.

Thanks in Advance.

It looks like you’re trying to work out if Fosun have creamed off cash since they purchased the club by trying to compare total capital movements since they took over. The way you’re trying to do this doesn’t really work, but the simple answer to the question I think you’re asking, is no. The annual accounts are published, and any transfer of capital to or from Fosun would be listed as a separate item. What they have done as others noted, is to write off their debt on the club’s balance sheet which is the opposite of creaming off profits. Their debt was not interest bearing so Wolves never paid any money back to Fosun before it was written off.

As to how much is the club worth now vs 2016? Well that’s hard to calculate with any accuracy since it depends on tangible and intangible assets. Fosun themselves implied a valuation of around £350m when they started looking at selling a minority holding a couple of years ago. They’ve invested over £120m (purchase price plus initial squad strengthening before we started to self finance), so it looks like they’ve roughly trebled their money. But to realise that, they would need to sell the whole club while stable in the PL. Relegation would almost immediately knock the club’s value to less than £100m, because of the loss of PL earnings, and the value of the players should they sell them like Morgan did, would not make up the difference. So they have a strong incentive to keep us safely in the PL.

 

[Eastyorksyeltz]

in 2016 they purchased the club for 30 million pounds.

Does anybody know the total in those 6 years for :

Total Income:

Total Outgoings:

Debt on Balance Sheet 2016:

Debt on Balance Sheet 2022:

Club Valuation Today:

I did look for this information but I don't understand the financial statement's in that detail t be confident.

Thanks in Advance.

You can very easily look up the answers to your first 4 questions. The first 2 wil demand a bit of basic arithmetic and will be a bit of a bore to compile, which is why nobody is rushing to assist you. But if you want to know it is all there. The last - "valuation", is not something that you can just do from published data, there are far too many variables and it would certainly take some time - which is why people are paid a considerable amount of money to perform such an analysis.
Edit:
(Sussex Wolf has provided an excellent answer, whilst I was typing this. )

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

No offence meant (genuinely to the OP) but I got a “C” in GCSE maths back in 1995 so I’m miles and miles away from a maths genius but anyone who think Fosun are creaming profits from wolves really needs to look at it more because simply speaking, they aren’t and companies house annual figures confirm this as does the writing off of a loan.

Should they invest more? I’m between probably and absolutely, however if that Investment comes from loans against the club, then no. Our fabulous club was here before Fosun and I’d like it to be here afterwards. The issue is clearly they’ve done what they said initially and put in a huge amount of money and to be self sufficient afterwards, whether that is possible is a different matter. All I can say is they aren’t just being miserly there’s innovative attempts to raise cause outside standard streams but people don’t want to hear that because other clubs are spunking money, which I understand the frustration but I’d rather we didn’t do that

 

[Flump]

Nope. Just asking if anybody knows these answers.

Why does everybody thin there is an angle.

Well then what are you trying to work out, then we might be able to help? Because at the moment it's just a random list of things, some of which are very easily googled, some of which are hard to find, and some of which are pretty obviously completely impossible.

 

[VancouverWolf]

Well then what are you trying to work out, then we might be able to help? Because at the moment it's just a random list of things, some of which are very easily googled, some of which are hard to find, and some of which are pretty obviously completely impossible.

I think he’s trying to prove/find out if Fosun are using their position as owners to take money out of the club.

Now why this important to him I’m not sure.

 

[wolf1975]

I think he’s trying to prove/find out if Fosun are using their position as owners to take money out of the club.

Now why this important to him I’m not sure.

Me and my family have spent thousands on Wolves.

Always been pretty decent value.

When something dies t smell right and they ask for more money then yes I will ask questions.

If your house wasn’t being maintained and the rent went up do you keep paying or ask questions?

 

[Deleted member drgr12429]

Me and my family have spent thousands on Wolves.

Always been pretty decent value.

When something dies t smell right and they ask for more money then yes I will ask questions.

If your house wasn’t being maintained and the rent went up do you keep paying or ask questions?

You'd ask your landlord, not the whole street.

 

[Leominster_Wolf]

You'd ask your landlord, not the whole street.