No EFL 'New Deal'

[Sussex Wolf]

They would argue that those outside the Sky Six receive a disproportionately high share of TV revenue already. The UK PL collective TV money seems fairer than what Spain seemingly does where they negotiate deals separately.

When you look at Sky being contractually obliged to bill Burnley vs Luton as "Super Sunday", you can almost see their point.

Bournemouth coming back from 3-0 down at HT to win 4-3 against Luton might suggest there is some entertainment value in those smaller clubs…

 

[maws]

What no one wants is the American way of no relegations, this is a scary scenario and we have lots of American owners in the prem

 

[CelebrityWolf]

Not sure there are many more boring conversations in football than club finances and financial struggles of other clubs and the dreaded 'clubs are soon going to collapse and go out of business' lines.

Well this was a topic of conversation back in the 90s and to date you could count on one hand how many clubs have gone out of business.

 

[CelebrityWolf]

What no one wants is the American way of no relegations, this is a scary scenario and we have lots of American owners in the prem

That would never happen here, it is a completely different set up over here and it works, hence financially there is little concern. It may be alien to us but it is hard to criticise American sports when the product works great financially and competitively.

 

[YouGottaRaulWithIt]

Not sure there are many more boring conversations in football than club finances and financial struggles of other clubs and the dreaded 'clubs are soon going to collapse and go out of business' lines.

Well this was a topic of conversation back in the 90s and to date you could count on one hand how many clubs have gone out of business.

Back in the 90's. Jesus I am getting old.

 

[YouGottaRaulWithIt]

That would never happen here, it is a completely different set up over here and it works, hence financially there is little concern. It may be alien to us but it is hard to criticise American sports when the product works great financially and competitively.

I think you are wrong. I have been to an nfl game, and a baseball game. They are over hyped, boring, commercialised rubbish. We already pay too much to watch football. American ideas to increase marketing revenues mean screwing fans for more money. I don't need three shirts every season thanks. Football belongs to the working classes, not the prawn sandwich brigade.

 

[Pete]

we are possibly looking at the three teams promoted are going to be relegated, and at least two of the relegated teams promoted.

 

[CelebrityWolf]

I think you are wrong. I have been to an nfl game, and a baseball game. They are over hyped, boring, commercialised rubbish. We already pay too much to watch football. American ideas to increase marketing revenues mean screwing fans for more money. I don't need three shirts every season thanks. Football belongs to the working classes, not the prawn sandwich brigade.

That is your opinion and it is far from the truth. You don't like US sports, fine. I love most US sports and the NFL is far from boring. Lets not kid ourselves football is constant excitement, it is anything but half the time, ball in play 55 minutes, goalless games aplenty. Man. it is only a few seasons ago we would never score a first half goal and haven't even average a goal a game up til this season for a while.

 

[brianm]

I think you are wrong. I have been to an nfl game, and a baseball game. They are over hyped, boring, commercialised rubbish. We already pay too much to watch football. American ideas to increase marketing revenues mean screwing fans for more money. I don't need three shirts every season thanks. Football belongs to the working classes, not the prawn sandwich brigade.

That is your opinion and it is far from the truth. You don't like US sports, fine. I love most US sports and the NFL is far from boring. Lets not kid ourselves football is constant excitement, it is anything but half the time, ball in play 55 minutes, goalless games aplenty. Man. it is only a few seasons ago we would never score a first half goal and haven't even average a goal a game up til this season for a while.

Personally tend to agree with the first take. NFL and MLB games are sterile, theme park affairs. NFL especially. Baseball games are fun for a day out with a child.

The NFL is a great spectacle in terms of just big and fast those guys are as they hit each other, but the salary cap makes the team rosters juggle around so much season to season that I just don't get attached personally. If you gamble or play fantasy sports then I guess it is different.

 

[kidder_wolf_II]

Surely the fairest way to distribute money into the leagues below is via transfers?

Just make all signings from a club in a lower league than you exempt from FFP.

You could even offer ffp incentives to parent clubs who loan players to a cllub lower down the football league ladder.

There has never been so much money in football as there is now but there is zero incentive for PL clubs to spend it in this country

 

[Sussex Wolf]

Surely the fairest way to distribute money into the leagues below is via transfers?

Just make all signings from a club in a lower league than you exempt from FFP.

You could even offer ffp incentives to parent clubs who loan players to a cllub lower down the football league ladder.

There has never been so much money in football as there is now but there is zero incentive for PL clubs to spend it in this country

Interesting idea. I like it in principle, but I think clubs would quickly start to game it by buying shares of lower league clubs, and then funnelling players through them to avoid FFP. So it would need a bunch of rules to stop this.

 

[wolfslair]

we are possibly looking at the three teams promoted are going to be relegated, and at least two of the relegated teams promoted.

That scenario happens in most elite sports where there is promotion and relegation.

As the relegated team often have some players still of the higher league quality and that is a massive help.

Changing how much we pay champ clubs and below will not change that.

When the prem has ffp rules actually being enforced, sides failing and even big clubs having to buy to sell…. Taking more money out, will reduce transfers inside the league cutting transfer revenue for clubs like us. So we will lose money to spend because of this payment and then reduced transfers……

Who ever is promoting this stuff is actually going to weaken the league and make “the product” less entertaining!

We are now the perfect case study of what complying to FFP does, small squads that gets decimated by only having 4 injuries meaning the managers have to be more risk averse and play weakened teams more often….. this over a long period will reduce enjoyment of fans, fans and neutrals who overpay in the uk for tv rights let alone the international rights. If the standard and excitement drops, so do the revenues from rights sales……

Wise move by fosun to reject it!

 

[Sussex Wolf]

That is your opinion and it is far from the truth. You don't like US sports, fine. I love most US sports and the NFL is far from boring. Lets not kid ourselves football is constant excitement, it is anything but half the time, ball in play 55 minutes, goalless games aplenty. Man. it is only a few seasons ago we would never score a first half goal and haven't even average a goal a game up til this season for a while.

Ok, I’ve lived in the States for a few years during my career, and I disagree.

NFL is boring unless you like the unending stop start nature of the game and, if you’re watching on tv, spending half the time watching ads. People get a bit more passionate about college football be because it’s not a franchise and they have some personal link to the team. It’s the US equivalent of rugby, and I’m not a fan of that either.

Baseball is fine for going to with your mates for a few drinks and a natter on a warm evening, but it’s hardly gripping unless it’s a key game like the playoffs. Most fans at the stadiums are only half watching it, and spend their time talking to friends or eating at one of the many food outlets. It is quite literally the US equivalent of cricket, and was adopted largely because in the early colonial days it was hard to establish and maintain cricket pitches.

There’s a reason why both sports are only really played in the States… they’re far inferior to real football.

 

[Werewolf of Wombourne]

What no one wants is the American way of no relegations, this is a scary scenario and we have lots of American owners in the prem

God, can you imagine playing in the 'Midlands conference' to try and qualify for play offs v the 'North West Conference'

 

[YouGottaRaulWithIt]

That is your opinion and it is far from the truth. You don't like US sports, fine. I love most US sports and the NFL is far from boring. Lets not kid ourselves football is constant excitement, it is anything but half the time, ball in play 55 minutes, goalless games aplenty. Man. it is only a few seasons ago we would never score a first half goal and haven't even average a goal a game up til this season for a while.

My opinion IS my truth, just like your opinion is yours.

The difference is mine is the right one.

 

[Bossworld]

Bournemouth coming back from 3-0 down at HT to win 4-3 against Luton might suggest there is some entertainment value in those smaller clubs…

For football fans, definitely, matches like last night are a treat. But when it's a shot-shy cautious 0-0 in the prime broadcasting slots, and significantly lower viewing figures to begin with because it's lower profile clubs, it's a slippery slope for advertisers and revenue.

Appreciate that there have been plenty of overhyped let-down matches between the Sky Six over the years too. But generally, those are the games in demand and they've got higher viewing figures, which is what it boils down to financially.

Be interesting to see what happens with the (other) new EFL TV deal anyway, they've massively ramped up the number of televised games across the three leagues. Suspect we'll see a lot of L1 and L2 derbies picked in their slots.

 

[QB Wolf]

The thing is a proper football fan can find a 0-0 more interesting than, a 4-3 and definitely better than a 4-0.

 

[ombyman]

Surely the answer is that the responsibility is moved away from clubs and the redistribution is taken from Sky/TV/league payments before they get to the clubs. 'Deducted at source'.

 

[wolfslair]

Surely the answer is that the responsibility is moved away from clubs and the redistribution is taken from Sky/TV/league payments before they get to the clubs. 'Deducted at source'.

For me, this money should only be for grass roots and actual and “real” amateur football. Develop the kids and future stars.

But the moment you pay a player, you are on your own and should run it sustainably or however you see fit.

Money shouldn’t come out of the clubs to fund lower level clubs who as you can see in many cases waste and fritter it away.

If we have to cut our clothes accordingly, so should they…….

If they want more money, find ways to make it. Negotiate better deals with commercial partners, the model isn’t broken as it is. The clubs and how they spend their budgets are!

I remembered seeing clubs spending money on the latest Heart rate and gps systems that the prem clubs had! This was in what is now league 1!!!!! That wasn’t cheap

 

[Jefe]

The thing is a proper football fan can find a 0-0 more interesting than, a 4-3 and definitely better than a 4-0.

I've seen a lot more dull 0-0s than dull 4-3s!

 

[sc91]

Ok, I’ve lived in the States for a few years during my career, and I disagree.

NFL is boring unless you like the unending stop start nature of the game and, if you’re watching on tv, spending half the time watching ads. People get a bit more passionate about college football be because it’s not a franchise and they have some personal link to the team. It’s the US equivalent of rugby, and I’m not a fan of that either.

Baseball is fine for going to with your mates for a few drinks and a natter on a warm evening, but it’s hardly gripping unless it’s a key game like the playoffs. Most fans at the stadiums are only half watching it, and spend their time talking to friends or eating at one of the many food outlets. It is quite literally the US equivalent of cricket, and was adopted largely because in the early colonial days it was hard to establish and maintain cricket pitches.

There’s a reason why both sports are only really played in the States… they’re far inferior to real football.

You're miles off considering NFL is growing in popularity over Europe (and to an extent, South America), given the ever increasing games abroad.

Baseball is hugely popular in Central America, part of South America and obviously Japan.

Give me an NFL game over watching half the ****e in the Premier League.

 

[Sedgley Gold N Black]

It’s a strange mix of for and against no idea why we voted against it and Man Utd voted in favour?

I'd imagine Utd are happy as this revenue stream is a lower percentage of their overall revenue compared to anyone else in the league (so they're gaining a competitive advantage the more that's given away).

The strange mix of clubs is probably a good insight into the complexities and it being more than simply PL clubs screwing over the EFL clubs.

 

[Sussex Wolf]

You're miles off considering NFL is growing in popularity over Europe (and to an extent, South America), given the ever increasing games abroad.

Baseball is hugely popular in Central America, part of South America and obviously Japan.

Give me an NFL game over watching half the ****e in the Premier League.

Everyone to their own as they say. But as regards objective audience figures, the Champions League Final has far, far more viewers than the Super Bowl. Several times as many.

Super Bowl vs Champions League final: which is the most watched sporting event?

Kansas City Chiefs emerged victorious over the Philadelphia Eagles last year with Manchester City beating Inter Milan in Turkey last June.

en.as.com

As for baseball support in central and southern America, surely you’re not suggesting they are anywhere near as popular as football?

 

[brianm]

Look, you are never going to get anything by asking these owners for help. These are deeply cynical people. Shame means nothing to them: they will win the deal.

Either take it or get better negotiating position to force their hand. They aren't going to be nice, and they don't have any of the cultural heritage around the game to care about it.

If English people.want to preserve the idiosyncratic phenomenon of such a deep landscape of different sized clubs with real support, they will have to fight for it.

It kind of seems like that won't happen, frankly. The world has bigger problems i.suppose.

 

[sc91]

Everyone to their own as they say. But as regards objective audience figures, the Champions League Final has far, far more viewers than the Super Bowl. Several times as many.

Super Bowl vs Champions League final: which is the most watched sporting event?

Kansas City Chiefs emerged victorious over the Philadelphia Eagles last year with Manchester City beating Inter Milan in Turkey last June.

en.as.com

As for baseball support in central and southern America, surely you’re not suggesting they are anywhere near as popular as football?

Which is the point, each to their own, quite a few people will prefer watching an NFL game over a Premier League one, especially one that doesn't involve, to say otherwise is rather off.

And of course much agreed, the Superbowl figures are a third of the CL figures for viewing, but it is a growing sport globally, this might be specific to London but there are bars/pubs pretty full on a Sunday to watch Red Zone for example. Not that it should be a competition between the two either, given they both operate in different times.

As for baseball, I did say in part of South America (namely Venezuela and Colombia), whilst in Central America it is the most prominent sport in places such as Dominican Republic, Cuba, Guatemala and so forth.

 

[brianm]

And of course much agreed, the Superbowl figures are a third of the CL figures for viewing, but it is a growing sport globally, this might be specific to London but there are bars/pubs pretty full on a Sunday to watch Red Zone for example. Not that it should be a competition between the two either, given they both operate in different times.

Red Zone's pace is very different from an individual game. Also no commercials.

The ball is only live and in-play for like twelve minutes.of an NFL game, lol.

 

[sc91]

Red Zone's pace is very different from an individual game. Also no commercials.

The ball is only live and in-play for like twelve minutes.of an NFL game, lol.

Tbf, used Red Zone as it's generally the easier one to recommend rather than individual games!

 

[CelebrityWolf]

You're miles off considering NFL is growing in popularity over Europe (and to an extent, South America), given the ever increasing games abroad.

Baseball is hugely popular in Central America, part of South America and obviously Japan.

Give me an NFL game over watching half the ****e in the Premier League.

I haven't watched a Prem game that doesn't involve Wolves for years, there isn't enough money to pay me to watch say Luton v Burnley for example, would rather watch paint dry. NFL i could watch any game, every single play is important and has a stack riding on it, so i get three hours of meaningful. Football on the other hand, City 1-0, City 2-0 and we are now 20 mins in, yeah. turn that off.

Always makes me laugh how protective Brits are over football. it is massively popular but the biggest reason for that is that it is open to absolutely everyone, you can kick an orange about the street if need be, a ball of tape, jumpers for goalposts it is that simple. That is the huge appeal of football around the world.

And back to the original point, we can rubbish US sports and I am not saying people have to enjoy them, but the fact is financially US sports are on another level to Football and we shouldn't be so quick to write them off.

Every NFL Team Sees More Profit Than Any Premier League Club

The Buffalo Bills generated the lowest profits of any NFL team in 2022, but it was still more than the most profitable Premier League club.

www.sportico.com

 

[CelebrityWolf]

Another interesting stat. Women make up 46% percent of the viewership for the NFL. 29% make up watching the Prem.

 

[brianm]

It's definitely true that the NFL prints money. It simply dominates television viewership (which is otherwise way down). https://www.axios.com/2024/01/07/nfl-tv-ratings-live-events-viewership

It's amazing.

 

[lobodelsur]

...the fact is financially US sports are on another level to Football and we shouldn't be so quick to write them off.

Of course they are. They have one single, huge domestic market.

 

[WickedWolfie]

You're miles off considering NFL is growing in popularity over Europe (and to an extent, South America), given the ever increasing games abroad.

Baseball is hugely popular in Central America, part of South America and obviously Japan.

Give me an NFL game over watching half the ****e in the Premier League.

I would rather put my *******s in a deep fat fryer for 30 mins than spend the same time watching the boring turgid rugby ripoff that is the NFL. Dulux drying is orders of magnitude more exciting and interesting.

 

[CelebrityWolf]

Of course they are. They have one single, huge domestic market.

And football has one huge global market. 360 million versus 4 billion-ish

 

[CelebrityWolf]

I would rather put my *******s in a deep fat fryer for 30 mins than spend the same time watching the boring turgid rugby ripoff that is the NFL. Dulux drying is orders of magnitude more exciting and interesting.

No worries, it is your loss to be so close minded. I love just about all sports in some capacity and can see the appeal in all of them.

 

[lobodelsur]

And football has one huge global market. 360 million versus 4 billion-ish

Maybe we can stick to comparing like with like...

 

[sc91]

I would rather put my *******s in a deep fat fryer for 30 mins than spend the same time watching the boring turgid rugby ripoff that is the NFL. Dulux drying is orders of magnitude more exciting and interesting.

Good for you, hah, other than Wolves game I give most football a miss as it's ****e.

 

[Perton Wolf]

From an entirely selfish point of view I watched Wolves in the 2nd tier for most of my life and I’ve seen enough of that league to never want to go back.

If that means we “pull up the drawbridge” then so be it. No offence to any other clubs but like I said, I think we’ve seen our fair share of Championship football and done our bit in that god forsaken league.

If it makes us look bad then so be it. I care about Wolves and Wolves only these days.

Don't like this attitude, football is bigger than one club or one league. The inability to agree a deal for EFL funding will have huge knock on effects further down the English league system, too.

Think too many on here have forgotten what football means to so many, or they're just choosing to ignore it.

 

[Perton Wolf]

I'll also add that it's in the PL's long term interest to have a strong second tier where it can send its younger prospects on loan to gain good playing experience, all while remaining close to home.

Just look at the current England squad for an example of that. Too much short term thinking going on, both in this thread and among PL CEOs it seems.

 

[maws]

That would never happen here, it is a completely different set up over here and it works, hence financially there is little concern. It may be alien to us but it is hard to criticise American sports when the product works great financially and competitively.

Works great how? They know no different? The baseball World Series? Yeah ok Canada get a go too eh! 14 clubs needed to ratify any changes in premier league rules, how many American owners are we on now? About 10/11?

 

[CelebrityWolf]

Works great how? They know no different? The baseball World Series? Yeah ok Canada get a go too eh! 14 clubs needed to ratify any changes in premier league rules, how many American owners are we on now? About 10/11?

Eh? It works great because financially they are strong and the product produces year on year. Attendances are great as well, even non professional teams have games getting 100k plus in the stadium every week. What bit didn't you understand?