Molineux future capacity

[Hot Fuss]

Jeff Shi said recently that Wolves will be one of the world's biggest clubs in five years, so he must know the club will need a stadium and capacity to match.

Gave me a chuckle!

 

[WasStefan]

38,000 absolutely perfect for us.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

I get the feeling Fosun would rather move us away from Molineux which didn’t go down too well last time it was spoken about. They aren’t going to rebuild the Steve Bull anytime soon. Talks with council didn’t progress so I guess things will stay as they are

 

[Stourport wolf]

In my opinion we don't have a fanbase like Sunderland's, we averaged 20,000 in the 3rd tier whereas Sunderland would average 35000 given that exact same circumstance of winning it, maybe more.

We have sold out every home game in a 32000 capacity for 3-4 years, as you would expect considering where we are. We are said to have 12,000 on our season ticket waiting list, but I doubt we could sell 12,000 more in reality. We cap it at about 22-23000 STs and the remaining 4-5000 weekly attending Wolves fans you would presume are part of that waiting list, so I think 35000 would be adequate for us, 40,000 at a push but that would mean a lot of games with empty seats.

The one unknown with Wolves is that in modern times we have clearly grown as a club, and so it is a bit of an unknown how much we could get if we had a larger stadium. Our capacity has been 28000 then 32000 since 1980, prior to that we did get 40,000+ on a few occasions with 7-8000 away fans in Cup games, and over 50,000 on 4 occasions in the 1970s, but the away support then was Leeds (20,000+), Liverpool (25,000+) in League deciders, and 10,000 v Cov and Leeds in the Cup QFs. So the most number of Wolves fans at a game at Molineux in my lifetime 1970s onwards is about 40,000. Mind you we took 52,000 to Wembley in the 1988 Sherpa Van Trophy Final.

I just don't think we could regularly sell more than 35,000 home tickets unless we were a top 4 club. And at reasonable prices. STs this year were disgracefully pushed right up to a cheapest adult price of £550 (I think) and I was surprised people paid that in this area.

If you regularly sell out at around 32000, of course you would sell a lot more tickets, especially for the bigger matches
I would start at 40000, with the possibility to expand, if we become more successful.

 

[beppe7619]

I'm a Sunderland fan and I was wondering about your future stadium expansion

Do you think you have the fanbase to fill a for 40,000 capacity ground?

I see Leicester are going to a similar capacity soon so that will be interesting to see the demand if they become a run of the mill midtable team

Our old chairman was over ambitious because the stadium of light started at 42,000 when first built but increased to 48,000 just three years later. This is too big for our fanbase unless we're doing well which never materialized.
.The away end is the additional tier for those who've been to our ground.

Thanks and good luck for the season

Are you planning on staying in league one and want a 10000 capacity stadium

 

[berwickwolf]

I agree mostly , but as you said the one unknown is modern times ......wolves have 2 million Instagram followers Sunderland have 300k.....whilst you maybe right judging it by your life watching wolves, it's a different world nw...

It's a different world watching football nw to what we've been used to ...overseas fans , fans traveling from all round the country to watch wolves home games ..these things didn't happen it our day ..

Everybody said the same about west ham when they got larger ground, they don't need a bigger ground, won't sell 50k every week.....but by correct pricing OAP n junior tickets they have managed to do it..

People want to go to football these days, from all walks of life...buy and large in our era they didn't...for me crowds previously don't hold as much relevance today ..

I agree with a lot of what you write, except the point about fans travelling from around the country back in the day. On the train from Gloucester back in the late 70s, there'd be wolves fans from Gloucester, Newport, Cheltenham etc, and I used to meet up with a fan from Barnstaple! There'd be loads of fans from London etc, and as we know on molmix there's wolves fans from all over the country.
If you build it they will come! (Apologies!)

 

[Berlin Wolf]

38,000 absolutely perfect for us.

Not perfect in my opinion Stefan. Not enough expansion built into a 38,000 capacity finished stadium.
Taking 3,000 out for away fans, leaves 35,000 max for home fans. Too small when considering Jeff's big ambitions for the club.
I feel 5k more, 43,000 would suit us better. To give the club more breathing space to expand into, rather than be hampered by being too small again like now.
Personally, I would like our 50k back. But it is about getting the right balance, the right sized stadium capacity without it being too big or too small for us.
The best way has always been to just do Phase 1. To bring capacity up to 36k, see how the land lies, and take it from there, if our future support warrants it.

 

[WasStefan]

Not perfect in my opinion Stefan. Not enough expansion built into a 38,000 capacity finished stadium.
Taking 3,000 out for away fans, leaves 35,000 max for home fans. Too small when considering Jeff's big ambitions for the club.
I feel 5k more, 43,000 would suit us better. To give the club more breathing space to expand into, rather than be hampered by being too small again like now.
Personally, I would like our 50k back. But it is about getting the right balance, the right sized stadium capacity without it being too big or too small for us.
The best way has always been to just do Phase 1. To bring capacity up to 36k, see how the land lies, and take it from there, if our future support warrants it.

Tickets are going to general sale/ members now. I was speaking to a Mexican couple after the Villa game who got tickets in the south bank temp stand by just being members, having never been to a PL game before. Villa, 3pm on a Saturday. We don’t need any more than 38k.

Just do the steve bull as planned and refurb the south bank and billy wright as and when needed.

 

[beppe7619]

Not perfect in my opinion Stefan. Not enough expansion built into a 38,000 capacity finished stadium.
Taking 3,000 out for away fans, leaves 35,000 max for home fans. Too small when considering Jeff's big ambitions for the club.
I feel 5k more, 43,000 would suit us better. To give the club more breathing space to expand into, rather than be hampered by being too small again like now.
Personally, I would like our 50k back. But it is about getting the right balance, the right sized stadium capacity without it being too big or too small for us.
The best way has always been to just do Phase 1. To bring capacity up to 36k, see how the land lies, and take it from there, if our future support warrants it.

We already maxed out our 22500 season tickets leaving just 5500 seats for members

 

[Ironfistedmonk]

40k would be fine, with a dedicated section for away fans that could accommodate more Wolves when the tinpot clubs like Fulham come to town with 300 fans

 

[Alex Rae The Substitute]

I’m actually more skeptical about our ability to regularly fill 40k seats.

I think we’d have to be pushing for CL football (really in the mix, not flirting with it for a couple of months like this season) to sell out regularly.

I sit in the SBU and you can see plenty of seats that aren’t corporate/ restricted sale in the BW and NB for at least 75% of home matches.

We’re a very well supported club don’t get me wrong, but I don’t think we’ve got the week in week out demand yet that includes tourists/ day trippers that you see at the Emirates and Etihad etc.

My main worry with ground expansion would be if we end up back in the Championship (a real possibility at some point in the next decade) and be left with 22-24k fans in a 40k stadium - that would be stark.

 

[wolvesjoe]

Fosun's biggest mistake by far. The only other one of comparable impact
is the reliance on too small a squad last season, but that doesnt have the
multiyear limitations brought by the failure to develop the ground.

Wolves have been one of the most talked about clubs during the last five
years, with highly identifiable players and managers, and consistent
high achievement. This has led to a hugely increased demand for
matchday attendence, which the club has simply not been able to
meet.

The fanbase hasnt grown as it could have, the club's profile has been
less than it could have been, income has been less than it could have
been. Etc, etc, etc.

There have been mitigating reasons, of course, but none that could not have
been overcome if Fosun had put their minds and finances to it.

All a bit mystifying to be honest.

 

[Sussex Wolf]

I’m actually more skeptical about our ability to regularly fill 40k seats.

I think we’d have to be pushing for CL football (really in the mix, not flirting with it for a couple of months like this season) to sell out regularly.

I sit in the SBU and you can see plenty of seats that aren’t corporate/ restricted sale in the BW and NB for at least 75% of home matches.

We’re a very well supported club don’t get me wrong, but I don’t think we’ve got the week in week out demand yet that includes tourists/ day trippers that you see at the Emirates and Etihad etc.

My main worry with ground expansion would be if we end up back in the Championship (a real possibility at some point in the next decade) and be left with 22-24k fans in a 40k stadium - that would be stark.

I guess the point is those seats you see empty have actually already been sold. The club has the revenue and only loses out on match day food and drink sales. There are those with season tickets who don’t go to every match, but retain them to ensure they have a seat(s) where they want for the games they can make. You will get that at any stadium which is sold out most weeks.

 

[lostwolf]

Fosun's biggest mistake by far. The only other one of comparable impact
is the reliance on too small a squad last season, but that doesnt have the
multiyear limitations brought by the failure to develop the ground.

Wolves have been one of the most talked about clubs during the last five
years, with highly identifiable players and managers, and consistent
high achievement. This has led to a hugely increased demand for
matchday attendence, which the club has simply not been able to
meet.

The fanbase hasnt grown as it could have, the club's profile has been
less than it could have been, income has been less than it could have
been. Etc, etc, etc.

There have been mitigating reasons, of course, but none that could not have
been overcome if Fosun had put their minds and finances to it.

All a bit mystifying to be honest.

It's disappointing isn't it. Sunderland are a brilliantly supported club, considering the recent lack of success; but they capitalised on a revival in their fortunes and revived interest in football nationally when they built the Monkwearmouth stadium (Stadium of Light lol).

I like the Mackams and the town centre's marginally nicer than ours, but I love the Bob Mortimer / Athletico Mince **** takes of the place, e.g.

P.S. is your return key stuck Joe or are you writing your posts on a pager?!

 

[Bossworld]

(I post on RTG under the same username - headed to the SoL tomorrow for my lad’s first game and my first since the 3-0 debacle a few years back). I was stuck in the home end that day as SAFC didn’t want to relocate the last few folk remaining in the Premier Concourse to give us more away tickets.

I think 40k would be a good compromise and would give a few walk up fans the chance of some less glamorous games.

 

[Sussex Wolf]

It's disappointing isn't it. Sunderland are a brilliantly supported club, considering the recent lack of success; but they capitalised on a revival in their fortunes and revived interest in football nationally when they built the Monkwearmouth stadium (Stadium of Light lol).

I like the Mackams and the town centre's marginally nicer than ours, but I love the Bob Mortimer / Athletico Mince **** takes of the place, e.g.

P.S. is your return key stuck Joe or are you writing your posts on a pager?!

Proper local rivalry banter!

 

[beppe7619]

I’m actually more skeptical about our ability to regularly fill 40k seats.

I think we’d have to be pushing for CL football (really in the mix, not flirting with it for a couple of months like this season) to sell out regularly.

I sit in the SBU and you can see plenty of seats that aren’t corporate/ restricted sale in the BW and NB for at least 75% of home matches.

We’re a very well supported club don’t get me wrong, but I don’t think we’ve got the week in week out demand yet that includes tourists/ day trippers that you see at the Emirates and Etihad etc.

My main worry with ground expansion would be if we end up back in the Championship (a real possibility at some point in the next decade) and be left with 22-24k fans in a 40k stadium - that would be stark.

I think without expansion cooperate boxes to increase revenue we will find it hard to keep our best players. And If the ones ain’t as good as the ones we sold I can see us going between divisions. I think now is the best it gets

 

[TFWanderers]

One of my favourite grounds of the modern stadium era, the Stadium of Light.

Would we fill it? I think for the Man United, Liverpool games etc we'd get close - if the price was right.

I know loads who for whatever reason had to pack it in or moved away and are now deep in the waiting list. Fans who watched us in League 1 now frozen out.

Personally 43,000 would do. Few hundred more seats than the Vile.

 

[Minimalist]

My main worry with ground expansion would be if we end up back in the Championship (a real possibility at some point in the next decade) and be left with 22-24k fans in a 40k stadium - that would be stark.

Same thing concerns me.
One option could be to make the redeveloped Steve Bull 3 tiers. Just make second tier a continuation of the size of quadrant, then another row of corporate boxes then a third tier. That way if ever the worst did happen we could just close top tier for season or specific matches. Think villa did that in one of their 3 tier stands in championship.

 

[Oh When the Wolves]

20-25k seems about right based on the numbers we get in the championship

 

[Deleted member 8455jwf]

If we got a 40k seater we'd average about 38k imo. Probably not financially worth it. You always get tickets on general sale for virtually every game.

 

[Spitfire]

If we got a 40k seater we'd average about 38k imo. Probably not financially worth it. You always get tickets on general sale for virtually every game.

In terms of just increased ticket revenue you are probably right, but it would enable us to get more younger fans in and get them hooked for the future, so increasing the size of the club a few years down the road. Would also encourage groups of fans / families to go as there would be more chance of them being able to sit together.

 

[Black cats laf]

Some interesting replies from everybody

I think Sunderland and Wolves are very similar in terms of the population of our cities, industrial background and fanbase size. Plus Danny Baath is now playing in red and white!!!

I agree that it's important to have a capacity that is suitable for good seasons and bad. As a Sunderland fan, I can relate to this even in the Premiership where we'd average around 41,000 over 10 years. This creates a good atmosphere in a stadium of 42,000 (our initial capacity pre extension) but doesn't look good in a 48,000 seater ground.

If your going to extend its probably best to add a few thousand at a time rather than adding 8,000 plus in one phase. In my opinion, Molineux will be better packed to the rafters at 35,000 for example than lots of empty seats.

 

[Sussex Wolf]

If we got a 40k seater we'd average about 38k imo. Probably not financially worth it. You always get tickets on general sale for virtually every game.

As I’ve said more times than I care to remember, that’s simply not the case. The odd ticket may make it to general sale, if you are happy to sit at a screen watching the ticket site, you don’t have to plan your trip to Molineux, and you’re happy to sit in your own. Come from further than a bus ride away and as a couple, or god forbid a family, and you can forget it.

 

[Deleted member 8455jwf]

As I’ve said more times than I care to remember, that’s simply not the case. The odd ticket may make it to general sale, if you are happy to sit at a screen watching the ticket site, you don’t have to plan your trip to Molineux, and you’re happy to sit in your own. Come from further than a bus ride away and as a couple, or god forbid a family, and you can forget it.

My mate has gotten tickets to every home game apart from 3 this season the day before. He lives in Stoke so not a massive journey. It is usually a hundred + tickets

 

[Deleted member 8455jwf]

In terms of just increased ticket revenue you are probably right, but it would enable us to get more younger fans in and get them hooked for the future, so increasing the size of the club a few years down the road. Would also encourage groups of fans / families to go as there would be more chance of them being able to sit together.

Fans will come if the team are good and won't if they aren't. Good chunk of adults who have season tickets now got 1/2 season tickets when we were almost certain to go up in Champ.

 

[Spitfire]

Fans will come if the team are good and won't if they aren't. Good chunk of adults who have season tickets now got 1/2 season tickets when we were almost certain to go up in Champ.

That’s true but they didn’t just start supporting us that season. They were occasional attendees or at least went to every game but just bought an individual ticket rather than have a season ticket. Yes fans are more likely to watch a winning team but extra capacity will allow us to accommodate more fans when we are doing well, that must be a good thing for the future of the club.

 

[rubyloo]

35k about right for us.

 

[Sussex Wolf]

My mate has gotten tickets to every home game apart from 3 this season the day before. He lives in Stoke so not a massive journey. It is usually a hundred + tickets

Your mate had way too much time on his hands. It’s *******s that there are usually hundreds of tickets on general sale - at any given time.

 

[Deleted member 8455jwf]

Your mate had way too much time on his hands. It’s *******s that there are usually hundreds of tickets on general sale - at any given time.

He said he just checks day or 2 before, the corporate ones not taken up get put back in the pool which helps.

 

[sedgwolf1980]

Surely if you are selling out pretty much week in week out there ground is too small? 45k would be perfect imo.

All seems abit academic for as long as fosun own us though. Absolutely zero chance of them investing in something that won’t have chance to provide them a decent return. Not moaning, they are decent owners, but they ain’t ever investing significantly in the stadium, let’s face it.

 

[Sussex Wolf]

He said he just checks day or 2 before, the corporate ones not taken up get put back in the pool which helps.

There is a reason why I and several thousand others are on the ST waiting list despite being unable to attend all the games in a season. If you live close by, and yes Stoke is relatively close, and if you’re on your own, then you can probably make plans to attend as late as the same day if you wish. So waiting for the odd ticket to pop up on the website and having the time to check periodically means it looks easy.

But if you live further away, it’s not so easy. This is made worse if you’re going with someone else and not on your own. I have limited opportunities to get to games, and when I do, I need to coordinate with family which means we need some notice, so we can’t wait for people to give up their tickets.

The reality is that we have one of the highest seat utilisation rates of any club, and have done since promotion. People want to get to games and are locked out today, and it’s not just “plastics”. The club know it, and their reaction will be to keep increasing prices as this gives a much faster payback than adding seats. Concession STH’s are somewhat cushioned, but as time goes on, they will get priced out too.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

45k be enough anymore be like Wembley day trippers sit down and stop singing **** off

 

[whitnash wolf ex.dewsbury]

according to Wolves every game home and away (except Watford home) has sold out.

 

[TFWanderers]

according to Wolves every game home and away (except Watford home) has sold out.

As far as I'm aware, since promotion we have sold out every single away game.

 

[beppe7619]

In my opinion we don't have a fanbase like Sunderland's, we averaged 20,000 in the 3rd tier whereas Sunderland would average 35000 given that exact same circumstance of winning it, maybe more.

We have sold out every home game in a 32000 capacity for 3-4 years, as you would expect considering where we are. We are said to have 12,000 on our season ticket waiting list, but I doubt we could sell 12,000 more in reality. We cap it at about 22-23000 STs and the remaining 4-5000 weekly attending Wolves fans you would presume are part of that waiting list, so I think 35000 would be adequate for us, 40,000 at a push but that would mean a lot of games with empty seats.

The one unknown with Wolves is that in modern times we have clearly grown as a club, and so it is a bit of an unknown how much we could get if we had a larger stadium. Our capacity has been 28000 then 32000 since 1980, prior to that we did get 40,000+ on a few occasions with 7-8000 away fans in Cup games, and over 50,000 on 4 occasions in the 1970s, but the away support then was Leeds (20,000+), Liverpool (25,000+) in League deciders, and 10,000 v Cov and Leeds in the Cup QFs. So the most number of Wolves fans at a game at Molineux in my lifetime 1970s onwards is about 40,000. Mind you we took 52,000 to Wembley in the 1988 Sherpa Van Trophy Final.

I just don't think we could regularly sell more than 35,000 home tickets unless we were a top 4 club. And at reasonable prices. STs this year were disgracefully pushed right up to a cheapest adult price of £550 (I think) and I was surprised people paid that in this area.

That is why Sunderland have averaged 35 k as they already had a big stadium in the prem so the fan base had already grown. But stay in league one attendance will drop lower and lower

 

[beppe7619]

Something like Mk dons stadium would do 40k with a plan for a third tier if needed

 

[beppe7619]

That is why Sunderland have averaged 35 k as they already had a big stadium in the prem so the fan base had already grown. But stay in league one attendance will drop lower and lower

In time fans would choose Newcastle United Liverpool Man U Chelsea instead of Sunderland. Wolves lost loads of supporters staying in the lower leagues in the 80s and 90s they all jumped ship to Liverpool or Man U Everton from the success they had in the 80s
In time and with success there is no reason why we could get 50 or 60k

 

[lostwolf]

In time fans would choose Newcastle United Liverpool Man U Chelsea instead of Sunderland. Wolves lost loads of supporters staying in the lower leagues in the 80s and 90s they all jumped ship to Liverpool or Man U Everton from the success they had in the 80s
In time and with success there is no reason why we could get 50 or 60k

Newcastle?! You've never been to the North East have you? No way on earth Sunderland fans become Newcastle fans or vice versa! It's even more of a cultural divide then Brum and the BC - even then, can you imagine loads of people either changing allegiance from Wolves to Villa, or vice versa, just ay gonna happen; even when we were beginning our slide into obscurity and Villa were shaking off their hangovers from being champions of Europe there weren't masses travelling from our neck of the woods to theirs, that's just not how it works (see also: Liverpool and Manchester when one or the other is doing way better...). Your main point partly stands though, we lost loads of potential support when we were ****, but 40-45k would easily do us now: new Steve Bull, rounded into an extended South Bank, cover a new Gene Kelly and we're sorted for 20 years with room for the next generation to get seats together rather than scrabbling around over the odd single seat here and there.

 

[Deleted member 8455jwf]

according to Wolves every game home and away (except Watford home) has sold out.

It has certainly not been full every game, but I could see people buying tickets and not going or ST holders staying away.