Michael Salisbury

SingYourHeartsOut said:
Cheers, maybe that's why he specifically patted the badge? Like some other things I do feel the desire to codify the laws to the nth degree in an attempt to find consistency has in reality just made people feel more aggrieved.
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According to Ref Watch on Sky the line is drawn horizontally from the armpit and therefore the area of the badge and where patted is not handball. All agreed goal should have stood.
 
Giving the refs microphones would help in so many situations.
For a start it would stop players approaching the ref aggressively. Once they get used to it they would soon stop the harassment, which in turn would make the refs job easier.
And hearing discussions between the officials would give an insight into what is going on for the crowd.
Not everything would necessarily be broadcast in the stadium, just go along the lines of Rugby or American Football.
 
Rhoswolf said:
According to Ref Watch on Sky the line is drawn horizontally from the armpit and therefore the area of the badge and where patted is not handball. All agreed goal should have stood.
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That is right, but if you read the article @Spitfire linked above though, the convention seems to be that the line goes through the badge. If the ball hits the badge therefore some part of it at least has hit below the centre of the badge and it's handball for the purposes of goal scoring if not for normal play - crazy game! Otherwise God knows, that sort of implies the lino doesn't know the laws, the ref doesn't know the laws and the VAR doesn't know the rules, or it really was just a conspiracy to keep Spurs in Europe!
 
Rhoswolf said:
According to Ref Watch on Sky the line is drawn horizontally from the armpit and therefore the area of the badge and where patted is not handball. All agreed goal should have stood.
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Apart from the Ref, which probably explains the confusion. Think they’ve confused everyone calling it the t-shirt line, not really definitive as shown in the link I posted.
 
Having the handball line cut off where the T-shirt ends and visibly contrasts with the arm, would have too much common sense to it to actually be a law of the game.
 
The so-called T-shirt line is arbitrary as I don't believe that there is a standard T-shirt. The 'cuff' of the T-shirt could be down at the elbow or as high as the shoulder. It's nonsense!
 
SA Wolf said:
The so-called T-shirt line is arbitrary as I don't believe that there is a standard T-shirt. The 'cuff' of the T-shirt could be down at the elbow or as high as the shoulder. It's nonsense!
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Who called it the T-shirt line though? It seems reasonably defined by IFAB , is T-shirt just media speak? It's definitely not the end of a (short sleeved) football shirt, whatever happened to long sleeved shirts btw?
 
If they were miked up for the crowd you would be able to understand it at Molineux unless they have improved since I last went ?
 
Spitfire said:
theathletic.com

What is the handball rule now? Explaining VAR interventions and the intricacies of the armpit and shoulder

Before the 2021-22 season began, there were several alterations to the rulebook in English football concerning handball violations
theathletic.com theathletic.com

Clear as mud. They’ve made a right pigs ear of the laws to accommodate VAR. :mad:
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It’s really frustrating. VAR should have been easy to implement and could have even stamped out some of the more negative aspects of the game such as diving.

Just keep the rules as they were. Make offsides have to be obvious (to the naked eye) rather than all this precise “is a finger nail ahead of the attacker” crud. Handballs to be a simple was it “hand to ball” or “ball to hand”.

It is so simple, how have they messed it up so badly!
.
 
www.bbc.com

VAR: Referee Michael Salisbury dropped for the next round of Premier League fixtures

Referee Michael Salisbury, the VAR official who failed to award Brighton a penalty against Tottenham, is dropped for the next round of Premier League fixtures.
www.bbc.com www.bbc.com

Dropped from this weekend following the mistake that Webb apologised for (not the other 2/3/4 errors apparently), what does it achieve though? Is there a 3 strikes rule with Webb? This is the scary thing with VAR, I think, despite what we might say at a match, most of us understand being a ref is a very difficult job, but with every angle and slow mo, sat in a studio, to miss both pens is crazy, but then again we might be back to the sort of **** they came out with after our game at Newcastle when Webb said the decision was wrong, but not so wrong the VAR should have intervened....
 
SingYourHeartsOut said:
www.bbc.com

VAR: Referee Michael Salisbury dropped for the next round of Premier League fixtures

Referee Michael Salisbury, the VAR official who failed to award Brighton a penalty against Tottenham, is dropped for the next round of Premier League fixtures.
www.bbc.com www.bbc.com

Dropped from this weekend following the mistake that Webb apologised for (not the other 2/3/4 errors apparently), what does it achieve though? Is there a 3 strikes rule with Webb? This is the scary thing with VAR, I think, despite what we might say at a match, most of us understand being a ref is a very difficult job, but with every angle and slow mo, sat in a studio, to miss both pens is crazy, but then again we might be back to the sort of **** they came out with after our game at Newcastle when Webb said the decision was wrong, but not so wrong the VAR should have intervened....
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All wrongs are equal but some wrongs are more equal than others springs to mind.
 
Jefe said:
Abolishing the "clear and obvious" error standard for subjective calls fixes this.
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Maybe, I feel like we're going round in circles though. Webb raised the bar at Christmas, now the solution is to lower it again. Can you have a second ref just re-reffing subjective decisions? How many times can we have 'if we just do this it'll be OK' before they concede it's just not fixable?
 
SingYourHeartsOut said:
Maybe, I feel like we're going round in circles though. Webb raised the bar at Christmas, now the solution is to lower it again. Can you have a second ref just re-reffing subjective decisions? How many times can we have 'if we just do this it'll be OK' before they concede it's just not fixable?
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IIRC when VAR was rolled out, the TV ref could overrule refereeing decisions on the spot, no messing around, no clear and obvious cack. That wasn't perfect at the time by any means, it was brusque and we never got to see the decisions on the big screen so it bred resentment at the invisible hand overriding the on field official. It was a damn sight better than the mess we have at the moment, though.

I agree with you, VAR is a fundamentally broken and failed experiment. Moreover, it has contributed directly to the falling standard of refereeing IMO by breeding laziness in the officials. I've stated at length that its abolition with a limited replacement challenge system would be best, but it ain't gonna happen so we gotta turn lemons into lemonade and try to fix VAR instead.
 
Jefe said:
IIRC when VAR was rolled out, the TV ref could overrule refereeing decisions on the spot, no messing around, no clear and obvious cack. That wasn't perfect at the time by any means, it was brusque and we never got to see the decisions on the big screen so it bred resentment at the invisible hand overriding the on field official. It was a damn sight better than the mess we have at the moment, though.

I agree with you, VAR is a fundamentally broken and failed experiment. Moreover, it has contributed directly to the falling standard of refereeing IMO by breeding laziness in the officials. I've stated at length that its abolition with a limited replacement challenge system would be best, but it ain't gonna happen so we gotta turn lemons into lemonade and try to fix VAR instead.
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I think it was always supposed to be for clear errors in match changing situations. In the media they all said 'why not ask the ref to look at the screen', then we got the farce of the ref trotting over and (almost, let's not forget Adama) always going with the VAR. I remember them showing the Doc and Mahrez one on the screen when the pen was given and that just making everyone more cross.

They're trying to turn **** into champagne.

Not that it'll stop me or anyone else moaning, as you say the refs have turned it into a comfort blanket. The awful one at Brentford I swear the ref didn't give anything, he just waited for VAR to make the mistake. At least I can celebrate a goal though, that is sort of the point of going!
 
Southdownswolf said:
Giving the refs microphones would help in so many situations.
For a start it would stop players approaching the ref aggressively. Once they get used to it they would soon stop the harassment, which in turn would make the refs job easier.
And hearing discussions between the officials would give an insight into what is going on for the crowd.
Not everything would necessarily be broadcast in the stadium, just go along the lines of Rugby or American Football.
Click to expand...

There used to be a principle that the rules had to be the same at every level. Or at least workable at every level. It was a good principle, I think. Was one of the reasons VAR took a long time to introduce - it couldn't be used in lower levels. Anyway , microphones is yet another thing that would go against that.

Used to be that changes would be tested at lower levels first. Things like back pass rule, penatly shoot outs etc, were tried at lower leagues, with any problems ironed out before being adopted at the top level. Another good idea from the old days that worked for 100+ years but now ignored with the game getting more chaotic and farcical every year.

Sometimes wonder if there isn't some big VAR lobby raking in the cash these past few years, it looks so much like a (bad) solution just looking for a problem to be inappropriately applied to.
 
On a serious note I thought our the ref against Chelsea had a very good game apart from the Hwang on Koulibaly call.
 
I’ve no problem sticking with the on-field decision if VAR footage isn’t clear but that is rare. If it is clear the only thing that matters is making the correct decision. I really don’t see how anyone would want anything else.
 
We often hear that VAR will not go against the onfield referee if he has said he has seen the incident in question.I have banged on for ages that he might have seen something but has he seen it from another angle that is usually available to VAR?
As such they don’t work as a cohesive pair and particularly with the Neves/Pogba incident where Dean flatly refused to go and have a look at the incident it led to the suggestion of senior/junior officiating -‘I know what I have seen and I know best’
In an ideal world most fans would get rid of it in a heartbeat but after nearly 5 years since its inception it is probably here to stay but it doesn’t help with them changing the narrative of interpretation time after time usually as a result of onfield errors .
I don’t know what the answer is but perhaps maybe a way forward would be to introduce one DRS type viewing at the clubs request where the referee would be mandated to go and have a look.Anymore than one and it might get a bit farcical so clubs would have to use it wisely .
 
Jonzy54 said:
We often hear that VAR will not go against the onfield referee if he has said he has seen the incident in question.I have banged on for ages that he might have seen something but has he seen it from another angle that is usually available to VAR?
As such they don’t work as a cohesive pair and particularly with the Neves/Pogba incident where Dean flatly refused to go and have a look at the incident it led to the suggestion of senior/junior officiating -‘I know what I have seen and I know best’
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The VAR should have pandered to his ego

"Look Mike, here you can disallow a goal for Man U AND send their record signing off at the same time"

He'd have jumped at it!
 
Going back to the Spurs v Brighton game and the Mitoma disallowed goal due to handball:- when VAR forensically analysed whether the ball had hit his arm or not, they TOTALLY IGNORED the more clear and obvious fact that the Spurs defender had just given Mitoma a big push in the back just as he was trying to control the ball on his chest!!! So thats another reason why the goal should’ve been allowed to stand!!

(This blatant pushing in the back of an opponent that has crept into our game big time and is being permitted all over the pitch now by “officials“ needs a thread of its own.)
 
Snarlingwolf said:
Going back to the Spurs v Brighton game and the Mitoma disallowed goal due to handball:- when VAR forensically analysed whether the ball had hit his arm or not, they TOTALLY IGNORED the more clear and obvious fact that the Spurs defender had just given Mitoma a big push in the back just as he was trying to control the ball on his chest!!! So thats another reason why the goal should’ve been allowed to stand!!

(This blatant pushing in the back of an opponent that has crept into our game big time and is being permitted all over the pitch now by “officials“ needs a thread of its own.)
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Yes, how has this been allowed to creep in? Though it seems it's being applied selectively, so yet more inconsistency. Sometimes permitted, other times enough to book a player or chalk off a goal. And yet more opportunity for officials to orchestrate the match. Not that they would, of course, that would be silly talk.

Seems to me, diving is actually one of the easiest things to spot. Many other decisions in the heat of the moment, speed of the game, are difficult, even with 20 replays. Yet diving is so easy, just watch how players throw their arms fall and roll. Yet is completely ignored as if they want the game to turn into 1970's professional wrestling.
 
Snarlingwolf said:
Going back to the Spurs v Brighton game and the Mitoma disallowed goal due to handball:- when VAR forensically analysed whether the ball had hit his arm or not, they TOTALLY IGNORED the more clear and obvious fact that the Spurs defender had just given Mitoma a big push in the back just as he was trying to control the ball on his chest!!! So thats another reason why the goal should’ve been allowed to stand!!

(This blatant pushing in the back of an opponent that has crept into our game big time and is being permitted all over the pitch now by “officials“ needs a thread of its own.)
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Yep. I actually felt as though Reece James pushed Podence in the box too.

Clear penalty for Brighton, and probably a red card.
 
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