Michael Salisbury

[JOSWolf]

I dread to think who the ref will be against Forest and who is selected for VAR. Maybe they could tempt Dean out of retirement to ref the game and come and see old friends?!

 

[JadeWolf]

I dread to think who the ref will be against Forest and who is selected for VAR. Maybe they could tempt Dean out of retirement to ref the game and come and see old friends?!

Stevie Wonder wouldn’t do a worse job than Salisbury.

 

[JOSWolf]

Stevie Wonder wouldn’t do a worse job than Salisbury.

Easily do a better job.

 

[SuperGran]

I dread to think who the ref will be against Forest and who is selected for VAR. Maybe they could tempt Dean out of retirement to ref the game and come and see old friends?!

Doesn’t matter really they’ll try to screw us anyway

 

[Jonzy54]

I dread to think who the ref will be against Forest and who is selected for VAR. Maybe they could tempt Dean out of retirement to ref the game and come and see old friends?!

NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[arctic rime]

He’s a fraud , a weak coward .

 

[bigwolf]

Stevie Wonder wouldn’t do a worse job than Salisbury.

I just called...to say...I need VAR.

 

[chignalwolf]

You're just made it up on the hoof that refs go for a pint and decide to conspire against clubs they dislike. Evidence?

I used to attend an annual referee's AGM for years, , and you'd be surprised what was discussed afterwards at the bar after a few beers.
don't think your views stand up to that statement above. whoever it was meant for,

 

[lobodelsur]

I am merely saying how they make a determination these days

I realise that and appreciate your efforts to explain the inexplicable/unbelievable.

 

[Frank Lincoln]

I dread to think who the ref will be against Forest and who is selected for VAR. Maybe they could tempt Dean out of retirement to ref the game and come and see old friends?!

No matter who the referee is or the clown in Fawlty Towers, in my view it is important that JL and the team just get on with the task in hand. Forget the officials and just go out there and win.

 

[jonesy]

Matters may be further complicated as a result of the sending off at the Manchester United game particularly that of Mitrovic. The FA may feel it has to make an example of players who threaten referees, regardless of how incompetent or inept such referees are.

How do clubs make an example out of referees who **** up all the time?

An eye for an eye. I hope we walk off the pitch if it happens against forest and take a stand .United, Liverpool city get away with it so enough is enough, it’s corruption end of!!!

 

[Beastier]

I thought the ref was frustrating on Saturday but he didn't cost us the game.

Ref's need to be given proper tools and platform to deal with time wasting - it's rife in most PL games and it's unlikely a single ref is going to go maverick and start being overly penal. Unfortunately this is a cross we will likely have to bear until at least the end of this season and hope there's some kind of review and changes put in place for next season.

I'm as sceptical regarding other recent refereeing performances in our games (most notably Madley) but I wasn't overly bemoaning about Salisbury. The key incidents in the game for me I'd summarise as follows:

- Semedo penalty claim, yes there was contact but it seemed a mild brushing of his foot rather than him being downright taken out. Might have been awarded but it was far from stonewall so understandable it wasn't given.
- Dawson booking, although similar to Byrne's recent challenge on Neves that went totally unpunished, there was a decent case for it being a red card which wasn't given.
- Jonny sending off, he initially awarded a yellow pre VAR intervention. It was a horror challenge and a 100% red card.
- "foul" on Adama for Leeds fourth game, yes technically a foul as his shirt was pulled but it seemed a very slight pull that didn't look sufficient to stop his motion and he still had full control of the ball until he totally stopped expecting the decision to be awarded. Adama should've carried on playing to the whistle.

I'd say we've had much worse decisions given/not-given this season than we did against Leeds the weekend.

 

[AndyY]

- Semedo penalty claim, yes there was contact but it seemed a mild brushing of his foot rather than him being downright taken out. Might have been awarded but it was far from stonewall so understandable it wasn't given.

In my view, if that challenge takes place anywhere else on the pitch it is a foul, therefore should be penalty.

- Dawson booking, although similar to Byrne's recent challenge on Neves that went totally unpunished, there was a decent case for it being a red card which wasn't given.

Agreed, lucky not to get a red

- Jonny sending off, he initially awarded a yellow pre VAR intervention. It was a horror challenge and a 100% red card.

Agreed

- "foul" on Adama for Leeds fourth game, yes technically a foul as his shirt was pulled but it seemed a very slight pull that didn't look sufficient to stop his motion and he still had full control of the ball until he totally stopped expecting the decision to be awarded. Adama should've carried on playing to the whistle.

I'd say we've had much worse decisions given/not-given this season than we did against Leeds the weekend.

If a shirt pulling is "technically a foul", its a foul. End of. It wasnt a slight shirt pull, it was a blatant highly visible tug, that pulled Traore's shirt material about a foot from his body. Yes Traore should have played on to the whistle, bit it was still 100% a foul.

 

[KBWWFC]

it seemed a very slight pull that didn't look sufficient to stop his motion

He held onto his shirt as he fell to the ground. His entire bodyweight was behind the "slight pull".

 

[Ned]

He held onto his shirt as he fell to the ground. His entire bodyweight was behind the "slight pull".

And also, very few fouls are enough to stop a player's motion anyway, it should have nothing to do with it. It's just the way it is; a foul is a foul is a foul is a foul.

 

[JOSWolf]

I used to attend an annual referee's AGM for years, , and you'd be surprised what was discussed afterwards at the bar after a few beers.
don't think your views stand up to that statement above. whoever it was meant for,

Absolutely disgraceful if this is correct.

 

[Oldgold Wolfcub]

In my view, if that challenge takes place anywhere else on the pitch it is a foul, therefore should be penalty.

Agreed, lucky not to get a red

Agree

If a shirt pulling is "technically a foul", its a foul. End of. It wasnt a slight shirt pull, it was a blatant highly visible tug, that pulled Traore's shirt material about a foot from his body. Yes Traore should have played on to the whistle, bit it was still 100% a foul.

To add to that only if you were in his shoes/boots do you know so those who say it was only a slight pull it doesn't matter. It only takes a slight touch to take someone out of balance. Sometimes though a hefty touch might have no effect. As said a foul is a foul.
As for when Dawson got his yellow he was committed to a movement which if the Leeds player had not slipped most lkely would have resulted in a fair challenge. It also looked as if Dawson was trying to pull out at the last moment. You try stopping at speed. So I dont think there was intent there.The ref also had to take into account the conditions of the pitch at that time.
What we need to look at are the number of times our players are slipping and sliding and this got anything to do with their boots, It may be contributing to the problem.

 

[Oldgold Wolfcub]

And also, very few fouls are enough to stop a player's motion anyway, it should have nothing to do with it. It's just the way it is; a foul is a foul is a foul is a foul.

I would though put another view on your first comment. In marial arts you learn where to unbalance your opponent with the least effort. Footballers can learn easily how to cause the most damage with appearing not to cause serious harm. Not in this case but often when Adama is in full flight he can be brought down easily without a foul given against him.

 

[chignalwolf]

Absolutely disgraceful if this is correct.

just human nature and bar talk, sure we have all done it, none of it would be discussed in the meeting, one thing that used to come across was just how difficult referee's and officials have it now to control matches with all these complicated rules in a once straight forward game,

 

[arctic rime]

gutless man

 

[Sussex Wolf]

I used to attend an annual referee's AGM for years, , and you'd be surprised what was discussed afterwards at the bar after a few beers.
don't think your views stand up to that statement above. whoever it was meant for,

@Perton Wolf was responding to my hypothesis that refs talk over a few beers when they get together, and if so, it’s not surprising if some may express their opinions on clubs, managers and players, and this might influence the opinions of other refs. Given all the PGMOL refs get together every two weeks for training and to review recent incidents, as described in the recent Guardian article, they will have ample opportunities to chew the fat and share their likes and dislikes.

What I hadn’t appreciated until reading that Guardian article, is that the PGMOL performance assessment and referee assignment process will generally result in the larger clubs getting more matches officiated by the better refs, while the smaller clubs will get the refs who score lower in their post match assessments. So not only do we get the worst refs, but the system reinforces this and incentivises the better refs.

 

[chignalwolf]

@Perton Wolf was responding to my hypothesis that refs talk over a few beers when they get together, and if so, it’s not surprising if some may express their opinions on clubs, managers and players, and this might influence the opinions of other refs. Given all the PGMOL refs get together every two weeks for training and to review recent incidents, as described in the recent Guardian article, they will have ample opportunities to chew the fat and share their likes and dislikes.

What I hadn’t appreciated until reading that Guardian article, is that the PGMOL performance assessment and referee assignment process will generally result in the larger clubs getting more matches officiated by the better refs, while the smaller clubs will get the refs who score lower in their post match assessments. So not only do we get the worst refs, but the system reinforces this and incentivises the better refs.

I have attended these meetings for probably 20 odd yrs, What does come out of these AGM's was the fact at grass root football officials
are walking away from the game more and more because of the constant grief they get, and not just verbally.
so the chances of getting top class officials now are very limited with so few to choose from, Time for changes or it will get worse,

 

[WolfLing]

This is the problem they've made for themselves.

Mitrovic is well out of order, it's a stretch to call it 'violent conduct' but it's worth a 3 game ban. Then there's Nunes who also receives a red even though the lino has just walked into him. Then we have Fernandes going unpunished.

Now I've heard a lot of people saying 10 games for Mitrovic. But he's angry because he thinks the Big 6 always get the rub of the green. So letting Fernandes off while giving Mitrovic 10 games seems like it's both punishing him and proving him right!

Another problem they have is that this weekend, Mitrovic and Nunes have both received red cards for technically doing the same thing.

We know that there was nothing in the Nunes one. Nunes didn't intend to manhandle an official, whereas Mitrovic clearly did.

But how they deal with both incidents, on the back of doing nothing to Fernandes, is going to be very interesting!

 

[Jefe]

What I hadn’t appreciated until reading that Guardian article, is that the PGMOL performance assessment and referee assignment process will generally result in the larger clubs getting more matches officiated by the better refs, while the smaller clubs will get the refs who score lower in their post match assessments. So not only do we get the worst refs, but the system reinforces this and incentivises the better refs.

Good point. Institutional inequality is casually confirmed in this article. Rewarding a good ref with a Cup final or a European game makes sense. Rewarding good refs with promotion to higher leagues makes sense. Rewarding them with the 'privilege' of refereeing a particular star-studded team at the expense of smaller teams within the same division (who are all supposed to be on a level playing field), is all kinds of dodgy. How could anyone at Wolves have the utmost confidence in the officials going into a game against United or Liverpool, knowing that this how the referees are selected for the match?

 

[YouGottaRaulWithIt]

Another problem they have is that this weekend, Mitrovic and Nunes have both received red cards for technically doing the same thing.

We know that there was nothing in the Nunes one. Nunes didn't intend to manhandle an official, whereas Mitrovic clearly did.

But how they deal with both incidents, on the back of doing nothing to Fernandes, is going to be very interesting!

Exactly. They will most likely ban Mitrovic for a long time, and to show consistency (ha) give Nunes a 3 or 4 game ban as well, for 'intimidating the official' or such like.

At least he was close to the bloke this time, unlike Lemina who was 10 metres away.

It stinks. We can add this to the long list of unfair decisions that will send us down.

 

[Sussex Wolf]

I have attended these meetings for probably 20 odd yrs, What does come out of these AGM's was the fact at grass root football officials
are walking away from the game more and more because of the constant grief they get, and not just verbally.
so the chances of getting top class officials now are very limited with so few to choose from, Time for changes or it will get worse,

Yeah, understandable really. I mean I hate the apparent bias in decisions, but I can sympathise with the challenges for them. In my old team in Budapest, we had one of the Hungarian FIFA female referees. She took regular unpaid leave for training camps and to officiate at tournaments. She recently retired from being a ref because of an injury and the challenge in maintaining the necessary fitness levels as she got older. Clearly required a high level of commitment to continue to take part.

 

[WolfLing]

What I hadn’t appreciated until reading that Guardian article, is that the PGMOL performance assessment and referee assignment process will generally result in the larger clubs getting more matches officiated by the better refs, while the smaller clubs will get the refs who score lower in their post match assessments. So not only do we get the worst refs, but the system reinforces this and incentivises the better refs.

Exactly the same way the Premier League works then!

The better clubs receive more income for finishing higher and getting into Europe, allowing them to stay there.

 

[WolfLing]

Will Jonny be suspended for 1 or 3 games ?

And what will nunes get if it’s not overturned?

All sendings off are 3 games, apart form cynical (professional) fouls, or two bookings, which are 1 game.

Ridiculous that you get the same ban for accidentally going over the ball like Jonny did, and punching someone on purpose!

Jonny's should be 2 for me!

 

[Jefe]

Exactly the same way the Premier League works then! The better clubs receive more income for finishing higher and getting into Europe, allowing them to stay there.

The thing is we acknowledge there is inevitably inequality among clubs, just as there is inequality in business, or whenever any competing entities are present; to the victor the spoils and all that. It's part of life. Where there should not be inequality is in how supposedly impartial referees are distributed among the clubs trying to compete with one another. It should essentially be random. You can pay a referee bonuses for good performances. You can't tell a referee, "If you perform well, we'll let you ref Manchester United more often", and then expect him to not be in some way influenced by that when he steps out at Old Trafford.

 

[SA Wolf]

I'd stopped watching the game on Saturday by the time Leeds got their 4th so can't comment on the Traore shirt pull or indeed the Nunes/Lino incident in themselves. However for those who think a shirt pull is an automatic foul; it isn't. It only becomes a foul if excessive or results in the player's momentum being affected. Some have said that Traore attempted to play on and then decided to stop, even though no ref's whistle. If that is the case, one can understand why despite VAR asking Salisbury to review the incident; he did not overturn it.
Yes, we got the ****ty -end of the stick on Saturday and most ****ty-ends this season, but strikes me (from what I understand) that perhaps Traore was naive and should have played on.

 

[Sussex Wolf]

The thing is we acknowledge there is inevitably inequality among clubs, just as there is inequality in business, or whenever any competing entities are present; to the victor the spoils and all that. It's part of life. Where there should not be inequality is in how supposedly impartial referees are distributed among the clubs trying to compete with one another. It should essentially be random. You can pay a referee bonuses for good performances. You can't tell a referee, "If you perform well, we'll let you ref Manchester United more often", and then expect him to not be in some way influenced by that when he steps out at Old Trafford.

Exactly. I’m sure the FA and PL want their “product” to appear in the best light by showing just how well run it is, and that extends to the officials for their flagship games, like the FA Cup Final, but I’m not sure I feel very happy about smaller clubs having to accept a disproportionate number of games officiated by the less competent refs if regular PL games are graded and allocated in the same manner.

 

[Sussex Wolf]

I'd stopped watching the game on Saturday by the time Leeds got their 4th so can't comment on the Traore shirt pull or indeed the Nunes/Lino incident in themselves. However for those who think a shirt pull is an automatic foul; it isn't. It only becomes a foul if excessive or results in the player's momentum being affected. Some have said that Traore attempted to play on and then decided to stop, even though no ref's whistle. If that is the case, one can understand why despite VAR asking Salisbury to review the incident; he did not overturn it.
Yes, we got the ****ty -end of the stick on Saturday and most ****ty-ends this season, but strikes me (from what I understand) that perhaps Traore was naive and should have played on.

That’s not quite what happened. There were two Leeds players. He won the ball off one, who then grabbed his shirt as he went to move away. That caused him to lose his momentum and gave the second Leeds player the advantage in retrieving the ball. He paused and looked at the ref for the foul, who ignored him, then by the time he moved again the second Leeds player had picked up the ball, and he passed it to the goal scorer. The shirt tug very clearly gave an advantage to the Leeds player who assisted the scorer. That’s why it should have been ruled out, and why VAR asked Salisbury to review his decision on the monitor. Even Dermot Gallagher agreed it should have been given.

It’s around 2 mins 18 sec in the video.

 

[WolfLing]

That’s not quite what happened. There were two Leeds players. He won the ball off one, who then grabbed his shirt as he went to move away. That caused him to lose his momentum and gave the second Leeds player the advantage in retrieving the ball. He paused and looked at the ref for the foul, who ignored him, then by the time he moved again the second Leeds player had picked up the ball, and he passed it to the goal scorer. The shirt tug very clearly gave an advantage to the Leeds player who assisted the scorer. That’s why it should have been ruled out, and why VAR asked Salisbury to review his decision on the monitor. Even Dermot Gallagher agreed it should have been given.

It’s around 2 mins 18 sec in the video.

It's also important to stress that the VAR clearly thought it was a foul too, which is why he referred Salisbury to the monitor.

And that Salisbury then became the first referee this season to ignore a VAR's referral and stick to his original decision.

 

[Fenrir_]

I thought the ref was frustrating on Saturday but he didn't cost us the game.

Ref's need to be given proper tools and platform to deal with time wasting -

They've got them, they're called cards, and it took until the 102nd minute for Salisbury to finally book Meslier for his continuous time wasting. If he'd have done it in the 42nd minute after over half hour of him wasting time every goal kick I doubt he'd have wasted anything like as much

And we've had precedents. In that famous win at Middlesbrough, shortly after going 2-0 up and being in complete control, ball went out for a goal kick in the 40th minute. John Ruddy took about 20s to fetch the ball from towards the corner flag and put down ready to kick, Attwell booked him for time wasting. It was the first 'instance' of time wasting in the match, wasn't necessary, and 20s to do what he had to do wasn't excessive, but still booked for time wasting in the first half

Salisbury waited until it didn't matter

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

It's also important to stress that the VAR clearly thought it was a foul too, which is why he referred Salisbury to the monitor.

And that Salisbury then became the first referee this season to ignore a VAR's referral and stick to his original decision.

Really hard not to think by that stage the ref was in that 'I'm giving you ****s nothing now after all the **** I've taken'.

 

[JadeWolf]

Really hard not to think by that stage the ref was in that 'I'm giving you ****s nothing now after all the **** I've taken'.

Either way he shouldn’t referee in the Premier League again after that performance Saturday. The Bulgarian U12 reserve league is probably more his level.

 

[Scallywolf]

Nunes red card overturned.

Just reported on BBC Sport website.

I should bloody well think so as well.

What did Salisbury see, that everyone else didn’t?

 

[SuperGran]

Nunes red card overturned.

Just reported on BBC Sport website.

I should bloody well think so as well.

What did Salisbury see, that everyone else didn’t?

 

[Oldgold Wolfcub]

Either way he shouldn’t referee in the Premier League again after that performance Saturday. The Bulgarian U12 reserve league is probably more his level.

So Jade exactly what is it that you have against Bulgarian Children?

 

[Oldgold Wolfcub]

Really hard not to think by that stage the ref was in that 'I'm giving you ****s nothing now after all the **** I've taken'.

If that is really his thinking he should not be on the pitch as a referee as it means he has lost objectivity.
You could very well be right though.