Lage OUT

[Ches78]

Bruno 12/1 to be next boss to go, 4th favourite. Might be worth a few ££...!

 

[Green Wolf]

Trouble is, you can't give a manager over 100m to spend in a window then sack him after 5 games. That will look suicidal and amateurish.

 

[Ironfistedmonk]

Having an opinon on whether Lage is upto the job is fair enough, however to question someone's broken English is frankly pathetic.

Not really, part of being a good manager is communicating your ideas, I struggle to get the gist of what he is saying in interviews so maybe those he can't speak to in Portuguese struggle as well?

 

[Vtrpres]

A good coach will bring the team up to the level of the best player performance. An indifferent one will drag the squad down to the lowest.
I look at Bruno’s body language. He is under stress from the start. When we get to 70 to 80 minutes with no goals his decisions become more and more desperate, even erratic.
I watched a YouTube blog of him “ mic’d”up at Compton and For the life of me I couldn’t understand what he was saying.
However it’s not me that needs to understand him.
I questioned his suitability from the start.
How long under Lage is too long?
Having the second best defence in the league will not win games. There is only one way to win and you must score goals.
How simple can it be?

 

[Flump]

Not really, part of being a good manager is communicating your ideas, I struggle to get the gist of what he is saying in interviews so maybe those he can't speak to in Portuguese struggle as well?

Do you really struggle with that? Or is it just that you don't like/don't rate him? I can't say I've ever struggled to understand him at all - his English is sometimes a bit clumsy, but always understandable to me.

Given we've had managers succeed here who use an interpreter (Bielsa, Poch), and managers succeed here who use far more broken English (Ranieri, Conte initially, Alex Ferguson), it's hard to think that it's actually holding him back, when speaking to a lot of young footballers.

 

[Ironfistedmonk]

Do you really struggle with that? Or is it just that you don't like/don't rate him? I can't say I've ever struggled to understand him at all - his English is sometimes a bit clumsy, but always understandable to me.

Given we've had managers succeed here who use an interpreter (Bielsa, Poch), and managers succeed here who use far more broken English (Ranieri, Conte initially, Alex Ferguson), it's hard to think that it's actually holding him back, when speaking to a lot of young footballers.

Both, but one isn't the cause the other, I'd say the same if he was the absolute dogs *******s of a manager

He rambles in English in all the interviews I've seen, doesn't really answer the question or make much sense, Nuno communicated far better and he never said much of consequence in his interviews either

 

[DanishWolf]

Do you really struggle with that? Or is it just that you don't like/don't rate him? I can't say I've ever struggled to understand him at all - his English is sometimes a bit clumsy, but always understandable to me.

Given we've had managers succeed here who use an interpreter (Bielsa, Poch), and managers succeed here who use far more broken English (Ranieri, Conte initially, Alex Ferguson), it's hard to think that it's actually holding him back, when speaking to a lot of young footballers.

Well said..
And English is my second language, and even I have no trouble understanding him.

 

[MotorWoden]

Not really, part of being a good manager is communicating your ideas, I struggle to get the gist of what he is saying in interviews so maybe those he can't speak to in Portuguese struggle as well?

I am not sure its just a language thing...

 

[EastDorsetWolf]

Waiting until after the World Cup will be too late. He should have gone in May.

 

[Mugwump]

For me, as i keep saying, its not the results that bother me, its the performances. They have been declining since February. I get no striker hasnt helped him, but a lot of the things wrong with us arent down to one position, thats a very poor excuse imo to use with him. The striker is the icing on the cake. We dont have the cake and thats the problem.

 

[Yamalroite]

Trouble is, you can't give a manager over 100m to spend in a window then sack him after 5 games. That will look suicidal and amateurish.

Do you think Lage chose the players and brought them in?

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

Both, but one isn't the cause the other, I'd say the same if he was the absolute dogs *******s of a manager

He rambles in English in all the interviews I've seen, doesn't really answer the question or make much sense, Nuno communicated far better and he never said much of consequence in his interviews either

In his defence he rambles in interviews as he actually tries to give the interviewer a bespoke answer. I loved Nuno but whilst he spoke great English his pre and post game interviews might as well have been one tape sent to sky at the start of the season as he said the same things weekly whether win lose or draw.

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

Do you really struggle with that? Or is it just that you don't like/don't rate him? I can't say I've ever struggled to understand him at all - his English is sometimes a bit clumsy, but always understandable to me.

Given we've had managers succeed here who use an interpreter (Bielsa, Poch), and managers succeed here who use far more broken English (Ranieri, Conte initially, Alex Ferguson), it's hard to think that it's actually holding him back, when speaking to a lot of young footballers.

Exactly this. There’s a huge amount to criticise Lage for right now but the idea part of the failing is his ability to speak English is crazy. For a start he has Tony Roberts in his inner circle to help with any apparent communication issues. It’s modern football, I imagine every premier league squad is in the same boat.

 

[SmokeyGB]

Trouble is, you can't give a manager over 100m to spend in a window then sack him after 5 games. That will look suicidal and amateurish.

What if you are upgrading him? AVB - Potch are both available and would be a massive upgrade.
AVB sounds perfect, been in the league before, done reasonable well in other countries (not just in Portugal).
This is just like moving players outs and buying / refreshing the squad so i don't take notion that £100m been spent will keep the Portuguese Saunders in a job if anything it could speed up his exit.

AVB / Potch (after that not sure)

 

[sillytuna]

He's here for now and I hope he adjusts his tactics on saturday to be more creative and attacking. We don't concede many so let's hope we see off southampton and get a confidence boost before the more tricky games.

 

[Flump]

AVB / Potch (after that not sure)

I don't think AVB even wants to manage any more, and assuming Poch says no, then what?

 

[Pengwern]

Footballers have a more internal language than us so what does it Matter if fans are confused by him?

 

[tonto]

Well said..
And English is my second language, and even I have no trouble understanding him.

I must admit I really struggle but not entirely the accent he does ramble and I feel he does have difficulty getting his point over
In my opinion he is not a great communicator and does not inspire
Nothing to do with his nationality more to do with personality
That is leaving aside his coaching abilities

 

[WalsallWolf]

Trouble is, you can't give a manager over 100m to spend in a window then sack him after 5 games. That will look suicidal and amateurish.

My point entirely. These are the profile of players he wanted. The clubs philosophy became 3/5 at the back. We have changed that for Bruno and allowed the players to come in to implement that. The target man also screams Bruno. He has to now at least be given the chance to work with this squad.

For me, as i keep saying, its not the results that bother me, its the performances. They have been declining since February. I get no striker hasnt helped him, but a lot of the things wrong with us arent down to one position, thats a very poor excuse imo to use with him. The striker is the icing on the cake. We dont have the cake and thats the problem.

I think we have to move past last season and concentrate on this one. In my view aside from Wednesday, all other 4 games I have felt we did enough in each game to get more points than what we did.

If we sack him, do our strikers immediately click into gear? Does Raul suddenly start moving ? I am pretty certain Bruno Lage's instruction to Raul is to not be as static and as slow as he has been this season.

 

[Polish Wolf]

I must admit I really struggle but not entirely the accent he does ramble and I feel he does have difficulty getting his point over
In my opinion he is not a great communicator and does not inspire
Nothing to do with his nationality more to do with personality
That is leaving aside his coaching abilities

Fully agree, these are communication problems, not language problems. And I agree with the sentiment here - one of the major assets of any leader is communication. It must be clear, it should be inspiring and motivating. I feel that Bruno struggles with it.

 

[tonto]

Are there any national team managers available after the World Cup we may be looking at if things go wrong?

 

[Ironfistedmonk]

Exactly this. There’s a huge amount to criticise Lage for right now but the idea part of the failing is his ability to speak English is crazy. For a start he has Tony Roberts in his inner circle to help with any apparent communication issues. It’s modern football, I imagine every premier league squad is in the same boat.

No it's not exactly that, I just explained that my dislike of his managerial abilities (not him personally) aren't the reason for my comments about his ability to speak English, it's his ability to speak English! It's not as good as Matheus Nunes English either by the way

 

[Elvis Wolf]

He's overseen an excellent transfer window.
Some class signings.
Moving on players who have contributed little in the way of being indispensable.
Over to Bruno now to gell the new players into his vision.
Onwards and Upwards!!

 

[JadeWolf]

Are there any national team managers available after the World Cup we may be looking at if things go wrong?

Southgate…

 

[RMNottm]

We see what happens on the pitch and to a degree the touchline.

At times i get the impression we are not implementing Lages instructions. If so he has to deal with this now- successfully- or be gone. Play power is real.

We have had a great window but still do not have many options. Neves has been sensational and considering age and playing time together so have Kilman abd Colins.

The rest of this team is capable of so much more and we need to see it.

 

[Ches78]

For me, as i keep saying, its not the results that bother me, its the performances. They have been declining since February. I get no striker hasnt helped him, but a lot of the things wrong with us arent down to one position, thats a very poor excuse imo to use with him. The striker is the icing on the cake. We dont have the cake and thats the problem.

I completely agree - it's not like Raul (or anyone) has missed loads of great chances. Against Bournemouth obviously he should have done better when 1 on 1 with the keeper (and Podence, although tight angle), but other than that...


We seem ok defensively and winning/keeping the ball, but we seem clueless when we get anywhere near the final 3rd (corners are beyond a joke) - be it down to coaching/tactics, confidence or probably a bit of both. A lot of the time we're reliant on a bit of individual magic, an error or a penalty to score. It's been like that for a long time - end of Nunos stint to present day (perhaps apart from the odd game or half here and there).

Is it partly down to playing both Moutinho and Neves in the middle, or something else, e.g. utter reliance on Jimenez (or Fabio during his injury)? Or is Bruno just not good enough?

I'm looking forward to seeing what difference Sasa can make on Saturday... Otherwise I guess it's a case of seeing what happens when Nunes and Guedes have settled in a bit more...

 

[Streathamwolf]

Do you think Lage chose the players and brought them in?

Yes clearly as the players have said he convinced them to come.

 

[Streathamwolf]

No it's not exactly that, I just explained that my dislike of his managerial abilities (not him personally) aren't the reason for my comments about his ability to speak English, it's his ability to speak English! It's not as good as Matheus Nunes English either by the way

Who has an English step father.

 

[Rauls Headband]

Putting aside the tactical nouse, perceived language barriers etc something for me that is really missing is his inability to get a reaction from the players, either at half time or in general.

Look at how Klopp has got a reaction from his Liverpool side, Ten Hag from the MU squad recently, Conte at Spurs, and even Arteta at Arsenal over the course of last season to launch their successful start to this one. Good managers deal with the cr@p and raise the energy and confidence of players.

I've just not seen that at all from Lage. Not so long ago if the team went behind it was a case of 'so what'. In fact they almost seemed to enjoy the challenge.

Now they look tired, deflated and devoid of confidence. If they concede we may as well go home, because heads immediately drop and there seems no spirit in the team to even try to get back in the game.

For me if Lage can't turn that around then no amount of 'coaching of patterns', 'shooting practice' etc will make any difference.

 

[Big Saft Kid]

Who has an English step father.

From Sunderland. In his interviews Nunes speaks English like a native-speaker. In fact, apart from Guedes, who struggles, every Portuguese player we have seems to speak English much better than Lage.

 

[Big Saft Kid]

Putting aside the tactical nouse, perceived language barriers etc something for me that is really missing is his inability to get a reaction from the players, either at half time or in general.

Look at how Klopp has got a reaction from his Liverpool side, Ten Hag from the MU squad recently, Conte at Spurs, and even Arteta at Arsenal over the course of last season to launch their successful start to this one. Good managers deal with the cr@p and raise the energy and confidence of players.

I've just not seen that at all from Lage. Not so long ago if the team went behind it was a case of 'so what'. In fact they almost seemed to enjoy the challenge.

Now they look tired, deflated and devoid of confidence. If they concede we may as well go home, because heads immediately drop and there seems no spirit in the team to even try to get back in the game.

For me if Lage can't turn that around then no amount of 'coaching of patterns', 'shooting practice' etc will make any difference.

Indeed. My gut reaction when we go a goal down is that we are bound to lose. It was the polar opposite with Nuno. How many equalisers and winners did we score under him in the last few minutes?

 

[Mark Rankines Lovechild]

Would be odd to sack him now that he's been given the players he wants. New manager could come in and want a different

Trouble is, you can't give a manager over 100m to spend in a window then sack him after 5 games. That will look suicidal and amateurish.

He's just Head Coach though, players are selected by Committee aren't they?

I thought he identifies the position and he gets an opportunity to veto (although based on the fact he wanted Ruddy to stay, quite how much his opinion is worth is open to debate).

 

[Bawtry Wolf]

Do you really struggle with that? Or is it just that you don't like/don't rate him? I can't say I've ever struggled to understand him at all - his English is sometimes a bit clumsy, but always understandable to me.

Given we've had managers succeed here who use an interpreter (Bielsa, Poch), and managers succeed here who use far more broken English (Ranieri, Conte initially, Alex Ferguson), it's hard to think that it's actually holding him back, when speaking to a lot of young footballers.

I’d add Dalgish to the list as well. It was like listening to Rab C Nesbit on speed. Managed to get his message across.

It’s not Bruno’s English that’s the problem I just think he over complicates everything and confuses players with too much information. His interviews are the same he likes to provide all the information so that sometimes the key message is lost. It’s understandable but lost.

 

[Ironfistedmonk]

I’d add Dalgish to the list as well. It was like listening to Rab C Nesbit on speed. Managed to get his message across.

It’s not Bruno’s English that’s the problem I just think he over complicates everything and confuses players with too much information. His interviews are the same he likes to provide all the information so that sometimes the key message is lost. It’s understandable but lost.

Which goes back to my original point about him communicating his ideas, I don't think he does it very well and in his interviews he seems to ramble without getting a proper point across, it's nothing to do with liking or disliking him.

This probably ties in to his abilities to motivate players as well

 

[Flump]

I’d add Dalgish to the list as well. It was like listening to Rab C Nesbit on speed. Managed to get his message across.

It’s not Bruno’s English that’s the problem I just think he over complicates everything and confuses players with too much information. His interviews are the same he likes to provide all the information so that sometimes the key message is lost. It’s understandable but lost.

Yeah, could well be right on that.

I think it all comes back to the team's form though - back in December/January when we were flying high in the league, there were plenty of articles and endless posts saying how amazing his detailed prep was, building the meeting room etc. People were knocking how Nuno had always focussed only on us, while Bruno was a genius for his detailed specific plans for each opponent.

 

[WeAreTheWolvesII]

I’d normally agree that you shouldn’t spend £100m+ and sack the manager a week later but I actually think our business was the sort that was needed regardless.

Whoever comes in would be delighted to have Collins & Kilman.

We lacked energy and intensity in midfield so we sign Traore & Nunes.

We lack another striker so we sign Sasa.

Overall, the squad is balanced and should be capable of playing in different ways.

So I think whoever did take charge could have very few complaints.

 

[Rauls Headband]

Indeed. My gut reaction when we go a goal down is that we are bound to lose. It was the polar opposite with Nuno. How many equalisers and winners did we score under him in the last few minutes?

Yup and I think at one point we were top of the league for most points gained from a losing position? Other teams were aware of that and made them nervous, even if they're in front.

Not to mention that reaction also breed confidence. I know everyone is giving Arsenal stick for their over 'enthusiastic' celebrations when they win, but look at what it means to those players when they've come back from a goal behind. I just don't see that mentality or resiliency in our players at the moment.

Screaming and flapping your arms around on the touchline isn't the answer (and the players aren't likely even seeing that if they're focused on the game) so its something that's developed on the training ground, before/after matches, in the team meetings etc.

Body language of players gives away the fact that 'something' is missing, and that IS on Lage.

No-one has mentioned his staff yet either, so maybe its a wider issue. You always wonder when someone 'brings in family' and can't say I'm impressed by Tony Roberts from what I've seen, he may be an OK goalkeeper coach, but then why is the GK coach screaming instructions to outfield players from the touchline rather than Lage which I find very odd.

Roberts comes across as having a bit of an ego, and maybe someone who needs firm man management too so (pure speculation on my part and would be more than happy to be corrected to anyone who have connections with the club), but I do wonder if there is a bit of a power struggle going on behind the scenes from a coaching perspective (and maybe even tactics) which could be contributing to player confusion.

 

[Fifty Niner]

For me, as i keep saying, its not the results that bother me, its the performances. They have been declining since February. I get no striker hasnt helped him, but a lot of the things wrong with us arent down to one position, thats a very poor excuse imo to use with him. The striker is the icing on the cake. We dont have the cake and thats the problem.

True. Although he’s now gone with four at the back it seems the team are still frequently putting in the dour, safety first performances as before. The new players haven’t changed the impetus in the final third. Yet, for short spells each game they show glimpses of intent but, as per last season and the season before that, they can’t hit a barn door from 10 yards.

 

[Mugwump]

I think we have to move past last season and concentrate on this one. In my view aside from Wednesday, all other 4 games I have felt we did enough in each game to get more points than what we did.

If we sack him, do our strikers immediately click into gear? Does Raul suddenly start moving ? I am pretty certain Bruno Lage's instruction to Raul is to not be as static and as slow as he has been this season.

I’m not sure we can ignore last season when the form is carrying on into this one. Big game on Saturday, performance and result need to be impressive.

 

[Rauls Headband]

True. Although he’s now gone with four at the back it seems the team are still frequently putting in the dour, safety first performances as before. The new players haven’t changed the impetus in the final third. Yet, for short spells each game they show glimpses of intent but, as per last season and the season before that, they can’t hit a barn door from 10 yards.

Yup its frustrating to watch as actually our back four seem to 'get it'.

Numerous times already this season I've seen Collins and Kilman take the ball from the back (which is what Lage wanted, ball carrying CB's!) almost over the half way line, to run into blind alleys with no-one giving them forward looking options, and frequently Neves or Mouthino have been yards behind them which results in the inevitable back pass, then sideways out to the wings, putting the brakes on that momentum.