Ivan Toney (oh dear!)

[Frank Lincoln]

Being cynical it’s dragging on so the majority of his ban will be in the closed season.

That is easily solved. If there is a ban, then it should start from the beginning of August.

 

[Bill S Preston Esq.]

What 262 of them?
If it was that trivial surely it would have been dealt with quicker than this.
It’s not complicated
Rule-Don’t bet on football matches
Player-Places bets on football matches 262 times
Authorities find out
Player says what? I have betting Tourette’s and could help myself? I didn’t think it was wrong?

If it’s that trivial then don’t bother having the rule. Just for clarity the rule covers this.
Betting on football is banned worldwide for all players, managers, coaches, club staff, directors and licensed agents involved in the game within the Premier League, EFL, National League, Women's Super League, Women's Championship and the Northern, Southern and Isthmian leagues.

Participants covered by the ban are prohibited from betting, either directly or indirectly, on any football match or competition that takes place anywhere in the world.

The ban also includes betting on any other football-related matter such as the transfer of players, managerial appointments or team selection.

The passing of inside information to somebody that uses the information for betting is also not allowed. Inside information is information that you are aware of due to your position in the game and which is not publicly available, like injury or team selection news.

You are not allowed to use inside information to place a bet or to instruct someone else to do so on your behalf. Equally, you are not allowed to pass inside information on to someone else which they use for betting.

Nothing in that paragraph is trivial if you do it 262 times surely? It’s simple. If you’re involved in professional football you can’t place bets on football matches . Stick to the gee gees Ivan and no one would give a hoot.

11 Footballers Who’ve Been Banned For Betting on Their Sport

A list of football players who have been found guilty of either placing bets or breaching FA betting rules in some shape or form

bookmakers.com

In the link is a list of players with varying degrees of "crimes".

262 seems to be at the lower end of the punishments dealt. What needs to be ascertained is if insider knowledge was used and to what degree and if Toney was betting on games he himself was involved in.

A precedent has already been set for the type of punishment he'll receive. Any punishment should be in line with ones already dealt.

There's no point clutching your pearls about something you only know half the story about.

 

[Bill S Preston Esq.]

the wokest England team of all time

Oh I know, haven't we all had it up to here with how nice they are and how they promote inclusivity and aren't racist and everything.

Makes me sick. Appoint Ron Atkinson as manager and the team can all chuck bananas at one another like the good old days.

 

[Beastier]

Being cynical it’s dragging on so the majority of his ban will be in the closed season.

Yes there's some momentum to that train of thought...Any ban would surely have to incorporate a chunk of the playing season to avoid it being a total mockery, however it could well be that it's lessened by it straddling the close-season.

 

[Superted]

I thought he'd admitted some of the charges but not all and will still want to put his case across before any sentence is passed.

The whole situation does seem daft, but whilst he's still playing and not under suspension then I'd say Southgate can only judge him on his football.

Realistically though, if he's admitted charges he should be suspended pending the outcome of the full investigation to determine any additional breaches and the appropriate punishment. The duration of the suspension would then be knocked off any future punitive suspension.

I don't see the logic in allowing him to continue playing when he has admitted charges. If I admitted a crime I would expect to be held (or at least bailed) pending sentencing but I wouldn't be allowed to continue working if the charges were related to crimes/offences directly associated with my employment.

 

[Sussex Wolf]

Realistically though, if he's admitted charges he should be suspended pending the outcome of the full investigation to determine any additional breaches and the appropriate punishment. The duration of the suspension would then be knocked off any future punitive suspension.

I don't see the logic in allowing him to continue playing when he has admitted charges. If I admitted a crime I would expect to be held (or at least bailed) pending sentencing but I wouldn't be allowed to continue working if the charges were related to crimes/offences directly associated with my employment.

Completely agree. Even if the PL didn’t suspend him pending completion of the case, his club should, now that he’s admitted guilt for at least some of the charges. It’s not like these charges are unrelated to football, like the West Ham cat kicker, these are a violation of FA rules, and there are precedents that those found guilty will receive some form of suspension.

It strikes me that he and his club may be dragging the process out long enough to ensure he can help them assure survival, and now, perhaps longer to see if they can qualify for Europe or just extra places higher for the prize money. If so, as soon as the club’s achieved its goals for the season, then they will seek to have the case wrapped up as quickly as possible so that at least part of the suspension is covering the summer months. He may be barred from playing pre season games, but I suspect he will be allowed to train, so perhaps a big chunk of any suspension will have little or no impact on the club. It’s analogous and consistent with their antics on the pitch when ahead. I’ve already made it clear what I think of it.

As for the England call up, given his admission of guilt, that’s a joke.

 

[Jefe]

Before boiling all your urine, maybe wait until the irregularities are confirmed. Perhaps his "crimes" are deserving of a lenient punishment.

Not entirely sure why you have air-quoted that word, when Toney has admitted to "many" of the 262 charges. How many is "many"? Even if it's only half, it would still comfortably be one of the biggest betting offences by an individual in the history of the Sport.

 

[Sussex Wolf]

Before boiling all your urine, maybe wait until the irregularities are confirmed. Perhaps his "crimes" are deserving of a lenient punishment.

It’s reported that he has admitted to over 250 of the 262 charges against him. The charges are not “crimes”, they are breaches of FA rules. The fact he’s still playing despite this, is a disgrace.

 

[Hot Fuss]

hopefully the details come out. I heard that the bets were placed years ago and there is absolutely no question of match fixing.

Feel a bit sorry for him to be honest, seems he did something stupid as a young bloke.

Will need a ban as a warning to others, but hope it’s not stupidly severe.

Just grateful he plays for Brentford and not Man United, the conspiracy mob would be all over him still playing.

 

[Pagey]

Tbh, I always thought it would be dealt with once Brentfords season is over, its the player not the club that should be punished and whilst they are still in the hunt for European football next season, I can understand them wanting to delay any punishment.

As for being picked to represent his country, I've no idea.

 

[AndyY]

The problem is the length of time between Toney being charged and how long it is taking for the case to be heard - especially given the charges are public knowledge.

Like it or not, at this moment in time he's not been proven guilty of anything and his career shouldn't be adversely impacted so long as this is the case.

In terms of him being picked for England, he's clearly playing well enough to warrant selection and at this moment in time there's no reason for Southgate to prejudice his selection (in fact from Southgate's perspective the easiest stance for him to take is not to get involved and be free to select him until such time the FA advise him not to).

A) He has admitted some of it
B) If it happened in the real world he would be suspended on full pay whilst investigations took place.
C) It’s also a disgrace that Walker has been picked whilst under criminal investigation.

 

[Pagey]

hopefully the details come out. I heard that the bets were placed years ago and there is absolutely no question of match fixing.

Charged with bets placed between 2017 and Jan 21.

 

[glorybox]

Realistically though, if he's admitted charges he should be suspended pending the outcome of the full investigation to determine any additional breaches and the appropriate punishment. The duration of the suspension would then be knocked off any future punitive suspension.

I don't see the logic in allowing him to continue playing when he has admitted charges. If I admitted a crime I would expect to be held (or at least bailed) pending sentencing but I wouldn't be allowed to continue working if the charges were related to crimes/offences directly associated with my employment.

Absolutely spot on.

 

[Bill S Preston Esq.]

It’s reported that he has admitted to over 250 of the 262 charges against him. The charges are not “crimes”, they are breaches of FA rules. The fact he’s still playing despite this, is a disgrace.

The closest example I've found to Ivan Toney is Scott Kashket

The Football Association don’t just go after high-profile players in a bid to keep the image of the sport clean from betting malpractice, with Scott Kashket being banned from all football activity for two months in January 2020 after the Wycombe Wanderers player admitted to breaking the rules.

The striker was discovered to have placed 183 bets on matches between 3 September 2014 and 22 August 2016 while he was on the books at Leyton Orient, with 65 of these wagers actually relating to a game that his club were involved in.

An independent regulatory commission did confirm that there was no suggestion that Kashket was involved in match-fixing, nor did they imply that the 23-year-old had used inside information in order to gain an improper advantage.

Expect a 3 month ban then? It's not of a Joey Barton magnitude, so wouldn't expect the same harsh punishment - or maybe it is? We don't know do we.

 

[Hot Fuss]

Charged with bets placed between 2017 and Jan 21.

Oh right, scrub earlier comments, daft ****er should be banned

 

[Pagey]

Oh right, scrub earlier comments, daft ****er should be banned

Tbh I can't understand the witch hunt, he'll get punished, get over any ban and will likely move on.

Hardly the crime of the century when you've got the likes of Greenwood more than likely playing again, and yes I know he was not found guilty of anything, but the evidence was pretty damning.

 

[Wolf316]

Tbh I can't understand the witch hunt, he'll get punished, get over any ban and will likely move on.

Hardly the crime of the century when you've got the likes of Greenwood more than likely playing again, and yes I know he was not found guilty of anything, but the evidence was pretty damning.

I’d be shocked if greenwood plays in this country again.

 

[Bill S Preston Esq.]

I’d be shocked if greenwood plays in this country again.

Prepare to be shocked. We've had convicted rapists and "murderers" continue their careers after doing bird.

 

[Wolf316]

Prepare to be shocked. We've had convicted rapists and "murderers" continue their careers after doing bird.

Different times now mate especially with the coverage the women’s game is getting.

 

[Asthmatic Wolf]

hopefully the details come out. I heard that the bets were placed years ago and there is absolutely no question of match fixing.

Feel a bit sorry for him to be honest, seems he did something stupid as a young bloke.

Will need a ban as a warning to others, but hope it’s not stupidly severe.

Just grateful he plays for Brentford and not Man United, the conspiracy mob would be all over him still playing.

You and your conspiracy theories hot fuss

 

[wolfslair]

I thought he'd admitted some of the charges but not all and will still want to put his case across before any sentence is passed.

The whole situation does seem daft, but whilst he's still playing and not under suspension then I'd say Southgate can only judge him on his football.

Still an admission of guilt to some of the charges and that should have been enough to see him suspended till this was taken care of and any time between that moment and the decision taken of the final decision.

 

[Bryce]

Everyone makes mistakes because they are human
Most people learn from their mistakes quite quickly and don’t repeat them
If I had cheated on a girlfriend once whilst ****ed I may get forgiven. If I then asked for 261 similar offences to be taken into consideration she may not be quite so forgiving.

 

[Pagey]

Everyone makes mistakes because they are human
Most people learn from their mistakes quite quickly and don’t repeat them
If I had cheated on a girlfriend once whilst ****ed I may get forgiven. If I then asked for 261 similar offences to be taken into consideration she may not be quite so forgiving.

Depends how many offences your girlfriend has committed?

 

[Sussex Wolf]

The closest example I've found to Ivan Toney is Scott Kashket

The Football Association don’t just go after high-profile players in a bid to keep the image of the sport clean from betting malpractice, with Scott Kashket being banned from all football activity for two months in January 2020 after the Wycombe Wanderers player admitted to breaking the rules.

The striker was discovered to have placed 183 bets on matches between 3 September 2014 and 22 August 2016 while he was on the books at Leyton Orient, with 65 of these wagers actually relating to a game that his club were involved in.

An independent regulatory commission did confirm that there was no suggestion that Kashket was involved in match-fixing, nor did they imply that the 23-year-old had used inside information in order to gain an improper advantage.

Expect a 3 month ban then? It's not of a Joey Barton magnitude, so wouldn't expect the same harsh punishment - or maybe it is? We don't know do we.

We don’t know how severe the individual cases were, but we do know the magnitude of cases, and thats pretty extreme.

Top Five Footballers Banned For Betting on Football

After Ivan Toney's recent admission of placing bets on football matches, we bring you the list of players who were banned for the same

www.foottheball.com

11 Footballers Who’ve Been Banned For Betting on Their Sport

A list of football players who have been found guilty of either placing bets or breaching FA betting rules in some shape or form

bookmakers.com

There are other examples beyond the one you named, Townsend for instance, for betting on football itself, and a few more for passing on information to those betting, which we don’t know if he’s guilty of or not. The number of bets, length of time he was betting, and the fact he originally challenged all the charges, are likely to add to the length of ban.

 

[AndyWolves]

Realistically though, if he's admitted charges he should be suspended pending the outcome of the full investigation to determine any additional breaches and the appropriate punishment. The duration of the suspension would then be knocked off any future punitive suspension.

I don't see the logic in allowing him to continue playing when he has admitted charges. If I admitted a crime I would expect to be held (or at least bailed) pending sentencing but I wouldn't be allowed to continue working if the charges were related to crimes/offences directly associated with my employment.

Betting isn't illegal.

The FA / PL can't ban him until they've figured out what the punishment should be, the only people who can effectively stop him playing at the moment are Brentford, and they won't do that unless they have to.

I'm not really sure there is any analogy that works here, except maybe politicians who have broken ministerial code.

 

[Bill S Preston Esq.]

We don’t know how severe the individual cases were, but we do know the magnitude of cases, and thats pretty extreme.

Top Five Footballers Banned For Betting on Football

After Ivan Toney's recent admission of placing bets on football matches, we bring you the list of players who were banned for the same

www.foottheball.com

11 Footballers Who’ve Been Banned For Betting on Their Sport

A list of football players who have been found guilty of either placing bets or breaching FA betting rules in some shape or form

bookmakers.com

There are other examples beyond the one you named, Townsend for instance, for betting on football itself, and a few more for passing on information to those betting, which we don’t know if he’s guilty of or not. The number of bets, length of time he was betting, and the fact he originally challenged all the charges, are likely to add to the length of ban.

Too many variables and we don't know every detail. Scott Kashket was betting on games he was involved in and got a two month ban.

There's already a precedent, the FA need to ascertain exactly the severity of his every wrong doing and punish him accordingly.

 

[A wanderer from Bristol]

So in the wokest England team of all time with a manager who is just a PR mouthpiece, with zero tactical ability, how on earth has someone who has a significant number of charges for breaching major rules around betting been allowed to get picked?

Someone needs to make this make sense.

Before some throws the “he made a final and semi finals…..” line at me, his runs have been against weak teams and very very few goals scored in open play. A good manager would have won that euros final.

What do you actually mean by the term 'woke'?

 

[AndyY]

Betting isn't illegal.

The FA / PL can't ban him until they've figured out what the punishment should be, the only people who can effectively stop him playing at the moment are Brentford, and they won't do that unless they have to.

I'm not really sure there is any analogy that works here, except maybe politicians who have broken ministerial code.

Betting is against FA rules, and he has admitted breaking those rules. However, The FA are still in the process of conducting an investigation.
Seems a bit odd to me. Surely they could instigate a ban for the rules breaches he has admitted too, whilst conducting the investigation into the contested ones.
If found that no case to answer for the additional alleged breaches then ok, play again at the end of the ban. If found guilty of some or all of the rules breaches then add a second ban to the first.
If he was claiming that it he was not guilty of anything, then that’s a different matter and he would be innocent until proven guilty.
I hardly think it’s fair on the other clubs in the league that a footballer is still playing (and having an impact in matches) when he could/ should have been banned for breaking the rules that he has admitted to.

 

[AndyWolves]

Betting is against FA rules, and he has admitted breaking those rules. However, The FA are still in the process of conducting an investigation.
Seems a bit odd to me. Surely they could instigate a ban for the rules breaches he has admitted too, whilst conducting the investigation into the contested ones.
If found that no case to answer for the additional alleged breaches then ok, play again at the end of the ban. If found guilty of some or all of the rules breaches then add a second ban to the first.
If he was claiming that it he was not guilty of anything, then that’s a different matter and he would be innocent until proven guilty.
I hardly think it’s fair on the other clubs in the league that a footballer is still playing (and having an impact in matches) when he could/ should have been banned for breaking the rules that he has admitted to.

I guess the FA would leave themselves open if they banned him and then found extenuating circumstances.

He'll get banned, and the FA won't see that it matters too much when, as it's meant to be a punishment on the player rather than giving an advantage to other clubs.

 

[JadeWolf]

He’ll probably get banned from the end of May to the start of August. That will teach him!

 

[Pagey]

Betting is against FA rules, and he has admitted breaking those rules. However, The FA are still in the process of conducting an investigation.
Seems a bit odd to me. Surely they could instigate a ban for the rules breaches he has admitted too, whilst conducting the investigation into the contested ones.
If found that no case to answer for the additional alleged breaches then ok, play again at the end of the ban. If found guilty of some or all of the rules breaches then add a second ban to the first.
If he was claiming that it he was not guilty of anything, then that’s a different matter and he would be innocent until proven guilty.
I hardly think it’s fair on the other clubs in the league that a footballer is still playing (and having an impact in matches) when he could/ should have been banned for breaking the rules that he has admitted to.

Would banning him now be fair on the club's he has played and scored against?

 

[WickedWolfie]

My suspicion is that what he’s (allegedly) been up to is rife in professional football and he’s pointed to lots of evidence of this. And in short the powers that be don’t really know how to tackle this, and fear any punishment they dish out to him they’ll need to dish out on a large scale.

The problem for the FA with that is past punishments that they administered for similar offences were therefore unjust and likely to lead to legal action....

 

[Sussex Wolf]

I guess the FA would leave themselves open if they banned him and then found extenuating circumstances.

He'll get banned, and the FA won't see that it matters too much when, as it's meant to be a punishment on the player rather than giving an advantage to other clubs.

Cuts both ways. As it stands, clubs disadvantaged by Toney’s goals since he accepted 250+ of the charges could potentially seek compensation from the FA, and if the club and player were seen to be deliberately dragging their feet to delay a final judgement, also them too.

 

[Superted]

Betting isn't illegal.

The FA / PL can't ban him until they've figured out what the punishment should be, the only people who can effectively stop him playing at the moment are Brentford, and they won't do that unless they have to.

I'm not really sure there is any analogy that works here, except maybe politicians who have broken ministerial code.

I know it's not illegal but the FA say who can and can't play in their competition.

They're perfectly entitled to suspend any individual operating under their auspices.

What they should do is have a minimum suspension period which coincides with the maximum time they can take for the investigation so at the very least the player could be sentenced to time already served.

That only works where guilt has already been established though i.e. Through admission.

I'll admit it gets awkward if someone contests all charges although in real life you would still get suspended pending investigation.

 

[Sussex Wolf]

I’m not sure I understand Frank’s argument here? Sure racism is utterly abhorrent, but how has that anything to do with Toney breaking FA rules on football betting over 250 times? Is he trying to argue that racism made him gamble on football, or that those who suffer from racism should go unpunished for breaking FA rules?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1637949647200169987

 

[Hot Fuss]

I’m not sure I understand Frank’s argument here? Sure racism is utterly abhorrent, but how has that anything to do with Toney breaking FA rules on football betting over 250 times? Is he trying to argue that racism made him gamble on football, or that those who suffer from racism should go unpunished for breaking FA rules?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1637949647200169987

If you read the article you’ve posted you’d answer your own questions!

Is he tring to argue that racism made him gamble on football, or those that suffer from racism should go unpunished for breaking FA rules? No, he isn’t.

 

[Hot Fuss]

Charged with bets placed between 2017 and Jan 21.

According to the Mail article above all the bets were placed before he joined Brentford in August 2020?

 

[Pagey]

According to the Mail article above all the bets were placed before he joined Brentford in August 2020?

I've no idea what the facts are, multiple agency's said he was charged with placing bets upto Jan 21.

 

[Bryce]

Betting is against FA rules, and he has admitted breaking those rules. However, The FA are still in the process of conducting an investigation.
Seems a bit odd to me. Surely they could instigate a ban for the rules breaches he has admitted too, whilst conducting the investigation into the contested ones.
If found that no case to answer for the additional alleged breaches then ok, play again at the end of the ban. If found guilty of some or all of the rules breaches then add a second ban to the first.
If he was claiming that it he was not guilty of anything, then that’s a different matter and he would be innocent until proven guilty.
I hardly think it’s fair on the other clubs in the league that a footballer is still playing (and having an impact in matches) when he could/ should have been banned for breaking the rules that he has admitted to.

exactly. Toney could fire Brentford into europe while relegating other clubs and then get a ban when it doesnt make give any form of justice. The rules are clear, he broke those rules. He has admitted that. He should be dealt with promptly. Another nonsense.

 

[Hot Fuss]

I've no idea what the facts are, multiple agency's said he was charged with placing bets upto Jan 21.

You’re right, the Mail are ****ing useless.