Hannah Dingley

[wayne-the-wanderer]

Personally I don’t think they would but it’s all about opinions

Have you seen the quality of some of the county cricket lately

 

[Jonzy54]

Have you seen the quality of some of the county cricket lately

Loads of it actually .Yes there are some decent players around but they have to be measured against who they play with and against.

 

[wayne-the-wanderer]

Oh come on don’t be so naive, there’s a handful of BAME managers in the football league, do you really suggest comparing it to the amount of bame players that this handful are the only ones who were the best applicants?

Its not just in football though is it?
Look at the management make up in the NBA & NFL both BAME dominated sports but with quite few BAME managers

 

[wayne-the-wanderer]

Loads of it actually .Yes there are some decent players around but they have to be measured against who they play with and against.

I think thats the problem now with county cricket, there are some really good young players coming up in the game but they ain't playing against top players every week in the longer format

 

[Bradmore Wolf]

Oh come on don’t be so naive, there’s a handful of BAME managers in the football league, do you really suggest comparing it to the amount of bame players that this handful are the only ones who were the best applicants?

You're assuming it's down to racism. You don't know that no more than you don't know how many BAME actually apply and of those that do, how many are actually the best applicant

 

[Flump]

Another point is that in some sports i.e cricket, there are actually some more talented women in the female game then those that play in the mens leagues - there are a number of players currently playing in the women's ashes that would walk into most mens county teams, but its not allowed so why should men be allowed to manage the women's teams?

While I love watching the England women's cricket team (except when playing against the unbeatable Australia...) that's just not true. When women's international sides ask for local net bowlers, they generally specify that quick bowlers can't even be in the top couple of club divisions.

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

You're assuming it's down to racism. You don't know that no more than you don't know how many BAME actually apply and of those that do, how many are actually the best applicant

Oh come on of course it’s down to racism in boardrooms, it’s fantasy to think otherwise. There’s a huge amount of BAME players, do you really think they don’t have the same ambitions as white players to go into management? You only have to read what the lucky few who have managed to get into management how difficult it was while the likes of Scott Parker/Arteta/Gary O’Neill to name just three end up in the EPL very quickly after retirement.

 

[Mutchy]

Football please. Cricket discussions in the OT forum.

 

[Ned]

Does anybody else not find it strange that she’s only an interim manager? Who appoints interim managers in pre season and makes them interview twice for the position?

 

[TheConcourse]

Well seeing as it’s specifically about management that is the data to be reviewed. So let’s review it. What’s the proportion of BAME managers in the professional leagues to white ethnicity? How does that correlate with a) the number of bame players or b) the proportion of bame people in the UK. It simply doesn’t.

So 74.4% of the population is White British. Is that reflected in management positions across the PL?

Your logic is flawed when you simply analyse surface level data.

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

So 74.4% of the population is White British. Is that reflected in management positions across the PL?

Your logic is flawed when you simply analyse surface level data.

Stevie Wonder can see the lack of BAME managers in the UK, if you can’t see that then I can’t help you. 92 clubs, how many have BAME managers, I’ll help you out you will stop way before you count to 10

 

[Sedgley Gold N Black]

Well seeing as it’s specifically about management that is the data to be reviewed. So let’s review it. What’s the proportion of BAME managers in the professional leagues to white ethnicity? How does that correlate with a) the number of bame players or b) the proportion of bame people in the UK. It simply doesn’t.

Leaving aside any cultural reasons as to why certain ethnicities may be more or less interested in some sports (or less likely to participate).

The black population (incl mixed race) of the UK is 5.5%, it’s one that’s growing (so is likely to be far less when factoring in those who simply wouldn’t be managers due to age) but even at that figure for such as small sample of 92 you’d expect 5 black managers. Factoring in the usual ages, it’s gonna be a lot lower and probably over subscribed from a stats POV.

The size/proportion of black people in this country is often exaggerated, most seem to think it’s significantly closer to the US.

Statistically in the UK, if you had a team of 20 footballers you’d only expect to see 1 black player.

 

[DJLWolf]

Does anybody else not find it strange that she’s only an interim manager? Who appoints interim managers in pre season and makes them interview twice for the position?

The type of owner who is only making the appointment for positive press and to be treated like a hero, rather than because he is genuinely committed to giving her a chance.

 

[Mutchy]

Leaving aside any cultural reasons as to why certain ethnicities may be more or less interested in some sports (or less likely to participate).

The black population (incl mixed race) of the UK is 5.5%, it’s one that’s growing (so is likely to be far less when factoring in those who simply wouldn’t be managers due to age) but even at that figure for such as small sample of 92 you’d expect 5 black managers. Factoring in the usual ages, it’s gonna be a lot lower and probably over subscribed from a stats POV.

The size/proportion of black people in this country is often exaggerated, most seem to think it’s significantly closer to the US.

Statistically in the UK, if you had a team of 20 footballers you’d only expect to see 1 black player.

What is the percentage of black players?
And the percentage of black players who go on to be managers compared to that of white?

 

[Black Coffee]

Being it's Dale Vince this screams PR Stunt and looking for attention yet again. The man is a huge attention whore.

 

[Leigh72]

Resident expert out again

 

[Ned]

The type of owner who is only making the appointment for positive press and to be treated like a hero, rather than because he is genuinely committed to giving her a chance.

This is my thinking.

It’s great she’s been given the chance and I hope she’s given a fair crack but I’ve never heard of an interim being placed in charge out of the season.

 

[TheConcourse]

Stevie Wonder can see the lack of BAME managers in the UK, if you can’t see that then I can’t help you. 92 clubs, how many have BAME managers, I’ll help you out you will stop way before you count to 10

I’m not here trying to have a sarcastic discussion, I’m simply asking for more education on what the data actually looks like and whether we’re making progress.

Progress cannot be measured by surface level outcomes when you’re trying to influence and change decades of habits and behaviours.

Especially when managers churn so frequently!

 

[thommo1984]

The man is a huge attention whore.

Great choice of words

 

[DJLWolf]

This is my thinking.

It’s great she’s been given the chance and I hope she’s given a fair crack but I’ve never heard of an interim being placed in charge out of the season.

Hopefully she does well enough to force his hand and make her a permanent fixture, but if I had to put money on it, I would go with her being replaced before the season starts.

That would be a real shame because it would turn a positive story into a negative one.

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

I’m not here trying to have a sarcastic discussion, I’m simply asking for more education on what the data actually looks like and whether we’re making progress.

Progress cannot be measured by surface level outcomes when you’re trying to influence and change decades of habits and behaviours.

Especially when managers churn so frequently!

Do many bame managers get involved in that churn?

Progress can be measured by 10 years ago there was the same amount of BAME managers as now which as a representation of bame ex players and current players is ridiculously low.

There’s no data analysis here just a simple question why do so many white ex pros walk straight into jobs compared to black ex pros? Wayne Rooney walked straight into championship football, so did Lampard, Woodgate, O’Neill, Parker. Where did Sol Campbell walk into straight after retirement? Do you think Raheem Sterling walks into a championship job when he retires? I bet Harry Kane does!

 

[TheConcourse]

Do many bame managers get involved in that churn?

Progress can be measured by 10 years ago there was the same amount of BAME managers as now which as a representation of bame ex players and current players is ridiculously low.

There’s no data analysis here just a simple question why do so many white ex pros walk straight into jobs compared to black ex pros? Wayne Rooney walked straight into championship football, so did Lampard, Woodgate, O’Neill, Parker. Where did Sol Campbell walk into straight after retirement? Do you think Raheem Sterling walks into a championship job when he retires? I bet Harry Kane does!

Okay. You’re that guy.

Impossible to answer any of your examples without understanding the context. FWIW, I wouldn’t hire Campbell either - he comes across as a self-righteous *****.

Spoiler: it’s nothing to do with his skin colour. I also wouldn’t have hired Scott Parker either.

I feel really sorry for people like Sterling who have had their path blocked because of the colour of their skin. And the 43% of Black players in the Premier League.

 

[WalsallWolf]

It’s that diverse that Gerrard got the Villa job despite having a worse record at Rangers than John Barnes did at Celtic.

Oh god, the John Barnes argument rears its head.

Brilliant.

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

Okay. You’re that guy.

Impossible to answer any of your examples without understanding the context. FWIW, I wouldn’t hire Campbell either - he comes across as a self-righteous *****.

Spoiler: it’s nothing to do with his skin colour. I also wouldn’t have hired Scott Parker either.

I feel really sorry for people like Sterling who have had their path blocked because of the colour of their skin. And the 43% of Black players in the Premier League.

I’m what guy?

The whole league is littered with white managers who get a job straight after retirement. I’m simply asking why that luxury doesn’t seem to extend to black players?

 

[Bill S Preston Esq.]

That’s kinda what happens when people get narratives shoved down their throat every day.

Back in the real world, football is as diverse of a sport as it gets.

What? with one female coach across the top four divisions of English football?

Without researching, Netball has had a number of men coaching at elite level and plenty of referees too.

You seem to be having difficulty swallowing your narrative, maybe try some gravy or curry sauce if it's too dry.

Women in men's football was an inevitability, with the numbers growing across the sport. This is just the removal of a barrier that should now see a steady stream of women joining the ranks if they are good enough, which some will be.

 

[WalsallWolf]

It’s that diverse that Gerrard got the Villa job despite having a worse record at Rangers than John Barnes did at Celtic.

Steven Gerrard got that job because he is Steven Gerrard. It is **** but that is the problem in itself.

Nothing to do with BAME, nothing to do with that frankly frightening most racist baiting bloke that is John Barnes.

 

[WeAreTheWolvesII]

I’m what guy?

The whole league is littered with white managers who get a job straight after retirement. I’m simply asking why that luxury doesn’t seem to extend to black players?

Darren Moore went in at the same level as Rooney & Lampard for his first managerial role despite having a career that didn’t compare.

Chris Hughton’s first managerial role was with Newcastle in the Premier League.

Chris Ramsey managed QPR after no managerial experience.

 

[WalsallWolf]

Darren Moore went in at the same level as Rooney & Lampard for his first managerial role despite having a career that didn’t compare.

Chris Hughton’s first managerial role was with Newcastle in the Premier League.

Chris Ramsey managed QPR after no managerial experience.

Can you stick to the narrative please.

 

[TheConcourse]

What? with one female coach across the top four divisions of English football?

Without researching, Netball has had a number of men coaching at elite level and plenty of referees too.

You seem to be having difficulty swallowing your narrative, maybe try some gravy or curry sauce if it's too dry.

Women in men's football was an inevitability, with the numbers growing across the sport. This is just the removal of a barrier that should now see a steady stream of women joining the ranks if they are good enough, which some will be.

There’s no narrative. I’m asking for more context.

Can you share at which point I suggested that women shouldn’t be involved in the men’s game?

 

[Dan G WWFC]

Stevie Wonder can see the lack of BAME managers in the UK, if you can’t see that then I can’t help you. 92 clubs, how many have BAME managers, I’ll help you out you will stop way before you count to 10

One of the last modules I did at university with Hannah was actually about diversity in leadership roles in sports.

Is the an issue, yes. Is it down to solely BAME not getting the jobs because of there race etc, no.

The percentage of people who are BAME going into these areas are a low percentage and those who look to gain the qualifications are even lower. The year I wrote my essay on it, the percentage of BAME currently taking A licence and Pro license was something ridiculous like 5%. The rest was white males.

I would say, instead of looking at the comparison of BAME players to managers in general. I would say look at the percentage of people that hold an A to pro licence. As that's the pool of people that can get hired.

Not saying the isn't issues with lack of opportunity. As one of the things that was discussed was the environmental and cultural implications that may be a factor in to why some groups don't want to go into management, which could also be lack of role models.

Another factor is also, the is an underlying bias to feel more comfortable giving people positions of power/importantance to people that look like yourself or have similar characteristics.

To finish this off, what's more impressive is not only Hannah being a Women given the opportunity to manage a mans side. She's also a none-pro player too. From my experience at a few clubs I've been involved with, (all youth 8-18 coaching) the majority of coaches that I would consider the best coaches, leaders and managers are mainly all non-pros that got into coaching because it's a passion and worked the way up. But, as they'll all tell you, doesn't matter how good they are, the Ex pro who's just hung up his boots is going to get a number of opportunities over them first.

 

[Mutchy]

We often here about the lack of black Managers, but when it comes to players there is much higher percentage of the black population than the white population. That's not called racist. Why don't we just accept white people (with obvious exceptions) are better at management and black people are better at football.

What on earth is your basis for that? Why would white people be better at management?

Honestly, viewing this thread... amazement, disbelief, disappointment, resignation at predictable responses, and the fact I know its only a matter of time before moderation becomes unavoidable.

 

[wayne-the-wanderer]

There’s no narrative. I’m asking for more context.

Can you share at which point I suggested that women shouldn’t be involved in the men’s game?

But why should women be involved in the MEN'S game and why should MEN be involved in the WOMEN'S game?

 

[TheConcourse]

One of the last modules I did at university with Hannah was actually about diversity in leadership roles in sports.

Is the an issue, yes. Is it down to solely BAME not getting the jobs because of there race etc, no.

The percentage of people who are BAME going into these areas are a low percentage and those who look to gain the qualifications are even lower. The year I wrote my essay on it, the percentage of BAME currently taking A licence and Pro license was something ridiculous like 5%. The rest was white males.

I would say, instead of looking at the comparison of BAME players to managers in general. I would say look at the percentage of people that hold an A to pro licence. As that's the pool of people that can get hired.

Not saying the isn't issues with lack of opportunity. As one of the things that was discussed was the environmental and cultural implications that may be a factor in to why some groups don't want to go into management, which could also be lack of role models.

Another factor is also, the is an underlying bias to feel more comfortable giving people positions of power/importantance to people that look like yourself or have similar characteristics.

To finish this off, what's more impressive is not only Hannah being a Women given the opportunity to manage a mans side. She's also a none-pro player too. From my experience at a few clubs I've been involved with, (all youth 8-18 coaching) the majority of coaches that I would consider the best coaches, leaders and managers are mainly all non-pros that got into coaching because it's a passion and worked the way up. But, as they'll all tell you, doesn't matter how good they are, the Ex pro who's just hung up his boots is going to get a number of opportunities over them first.

Interesting - thanks!

 

[WeAreTheWolvesII]

One of the last modules I did at university with Hannah was actually about diversity in leadership roles in sports.

Is the an issue, yes. Is it down to solely BAME not getting the jobs because of there race etc, no.

The percentage of people who are BAME going into these areas are a low percentage and those who look to gain the qualifications are even lower. The year I wrote my essay on it, the percentage of BAME currently taking A licence and Pro license was something ridiculous like 5%. The rest was white males.

I would say, instead of looking at the comparison of BAME players to managers in general. I would say look at the percentage of people that hold an A to pro licence. As that's the pool of people that can get hired.

Not saying the isn't issues with lack of opportunity. As one of the things that was discussed was the environmental and cultural implications that may be a factor in to why some groups don't want to go into management, which could also be lack of role models.

Another factor is also, the is an underlying bias to feel more comfortable giving people positions of power/importantance to people that look like yourself or have similar characteristics.

To finish this off, what's more impressive is not only Hannah being a Women given the opportunity to manage a mans side. She's also a none-pro player too. From my experience at a few clubs I've been involved with, (all youth 8-18 coaching) the majority of coaches that I would consider the best coaches, leaders and managers are mainly all non-pros that got into coaching because it's a passion and worked the way up. But, as they'll all tell you, doesn't matter how good they are, the Ex pro who's just hung up his boots is going to get a number of opportunities over them first.

Your first part is the main and most important point. They weren’t getting the qualifications.

Until that’s changed it shouldn’t be a discussion.

 

[TheConcourse]

But why should women be involved in the MEN'S game and why should MEN be involved in the WOMEN'S game?

I don’t care if they’ve got 4 heads tbh. If a Black pregnant woman took Wolves to the Premier League title then I don’t care. I’d celebrate like it was Nuno.

Clearly there would be an issue with women playing in the men’s game.

 

[Mutchy]

Your first part is the main and most important point. They weren’t getting the qualifications.

Until that’s changed it shouldn’t be a discussion.

Why aren't they should be though.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

One of the last modules I did at university with Hannah was actually about diversity in leadership roles in sports.

Is the an issue, yes. Is it down to solely BAME not getting the jobs because of there race etc, no.

The percentage of people who are BAME going into these areas are a low percentage and those who look to gain the qualifications are even lower. The year I wrote my essay on it, the percentage of BAME currently taking A licence and Pro license was something ridiculous like 5%. The rest was white males.

I would say, instead of looking at the comparison of BAME players to managers in general. I would say look at the percentage of people that hold an A to pro licence. As that's the pool of people that can get hired.

Not saying the isn't issues with lack of opportunity. As one of the things that was discussed was the environmental and cultural implications that may be a factor in to why some groups don't want to go into management, which could also be lack of role models.

Another factor is also, the is an underlying bias to feel more comfortable giving people positions of power/importantance to people that look like yourself or have similar characteristics.

To finish this off, what's more impressive is not only Hannah being a Women given the opportunity to manage a mans side. She's also a none-pro player too. From my experience at a few clubs I've been involved with, (all youth 8-18 coaching) the majority of coaches that I would consider the best coaches, leaders and managers are mainly all non-pros that got into coaching because it's a passion and worked the way up. But, as they'll all tell you, doesn't matter how good they are, the Ex pro who's just hung up his boots is going to get a number of opportunities over them first.

Some good points although there's still a chicken and egg argument. As far as I can see she's just a caretaker anyway, would be great to see her do well and get the job permanently though.

But why should women be involved in the MEN'S game and why should MEN be involved in the WOMEN'S game?

Bizarre. How far are you taking this? No female managers? No female physios? No female officials? No female supporters?

 

[wayne-the-wanderer]

What on earth is your basis for that? Why would white people be better at management?

Honestly, viewing this thread... amazement, disbelief, disappointment, resignation at predictable responses, and the fact I know its only a matter of time before moderation becomes unavoidable.

I think he ment football management as opposed to management in general.

People of certain races or sexes will inevitably be better than other races or sexes at different things - its what makes us all different.

Black men are in general better runners or better basketball players than white men, men are generally physically stronger than women, its not racist or sexist its just how and who we are.

 

[WalsallWolf]

What on earth is your basis for that? Why would white people be better at management?

Honestly, viewing this thread... amazement, disbelief, disappointment, resignation at predictable responses, and the fact I know its only a matter of time before moderation becomes unavoidable.

The final sentence is an odd one...but Mutchy, what is wrong with saying that ? Especially when historically, it is true, that White people (with exceptions) have made better managers than black people ?

Just why? I mean to prove BAME is an issue, should we just sack all white managers and throw black people into management regardless of there ability? Just for equal opportunity? Does that make all well then? Shall we go one further and make said white managers slaves too ? Would that resolve everything ?
Can we not see how ridiculous this all is?

I mean for balance, my favourite Wolves manager in my lifetime (granted, I am a "dinosaur".. you ageist ****ers...see what I did there..) is Nuno Espirito Santo. Oh wait, isn't he BAME ??? Or is he not dark enough? Or does he not count because he isn't Black and English?
Do we not see how pathetic this all is?

My other favourite sport is boxing. Historically (imo) better boxers have been black. Boxers of colour have been better than white boxers. There, I said it. Ali, Lewis, Tyson, Manny Pacquiao, Sugar Ray Robinson, Joe Lewis, Mayweather Jr.
Oh wait ... Do we have a diverse issue in boxing too ? Why aren't white boxers getting more opportunities? Because historically, I can't think of a white boxer who comes close to those names.

Don't worry, I'll be dead soon. Good luck to the next generation.

 

[DC sits in the NORTHSTAND]

But why should women be involved in the MEN'S game and why should MEN be involved in the WOMEN'S game?

What rolls would you let women have in Football?