Ground redevelopment

[WillenhallWolfie1980]

The stadium can wait , Lets get promotion first , Then build a team that can stay in the premier league , Then worry about the stadium
Lets not jump the gun , We've had a good start but its a marathon not a sprint

Had Morgan spent on the team instead of the new new north bank then we could have stayed in the premier league longer , dont start running before you can walk

 

[Stoichkov]

I'd go with a horseshoe of building the two sides similar to the North Bank, and then redeveloping the South Bank as a single tier.

For costs, think it was quoted as around £25m for the sides and £15m behind the goal.

Re: Anfield, £40m of that was buying up land and houses around the ground. They spent £74m on the stand itself. It's a huge stand, but the money goes up at a fast rate the more corporate facilities you build in.

Would love that - big horseshoe of BW-North Bank-Steve Bull.... then a huge, single tier, safe standing 'Curva Sud' for all us knuckledraggers

#raucous

 

[lostwolf]

Whilst there are so many logistical and financial plusses to a outpost built out of town stadium I have to be honest.... I'd hate it. It's not for me. It's just losing identity and history and I'll be honest I'd sooner we stick with what we've got than that as an option.

maybe down the line if we're established in the prem and even considering the dizzy heights of European competition (not running away with myself.... if it ever happens it's many moons away) we would maybe need a huge stadium.... such as ManCity found out with there meteoric rise (and got themselves a stadium on the cheap.... a bit like the blues rumours of time ago).... I don't know what we would do if for example we needed 50k plus to accommodate the new fans from London etc... in honesty I don't care though as I've got my season ticket

I agree Rich. I'd also add that Man City have almost always had much larger crowds than us, even when we were a successful side in the 70s.

For me the ideal answer is to leave the BW untouched, it's a nice high quality stand and a great example of interesting and unique 90s stand design. The North Bank should be rounded into the Steve Bull, which itself could be half rounded (like the Brummie Road end and Tilton) into the South Bank while still leaving our end separate.

The posh seats in the North Bank should be relocated to the new Steve Bull, meaning more noisy fans can sit there under the upper tier. Then, if safe standing ever gets approved, either the North Bank lower, quadrant or half the South Bank could be adapted. If not extend a single tier South Bank. For me that would be a great medium term plan which retains the character of the ground and maximises noise and closeness to the pitch.

Where would folks like away fans located once the Steve Bull is redeveloped? I'd say either the quadrant or a section in the new Steve Bull lower next to the South Bank, a bit like at Villa...

 

[Wolvessince63]

As the originator of the thread I have been fascinated by the posts on this subject, My own thoughts on it are, when Sir Jack first commissioned the rebuilding of the ground, I'm pretty sure it was designed in such a way that the corners of the South Bank could be filled in to join both the Steve Bull and the Billy Wright.
I would go with that to increase capacity to around 36,000 for around 5 years or so before considering anything more radical. This could be done at relatively little cost £5m - £10m perhaps, and have no disruption factor, also providing a better match day atmosphere.

 

[Pengwern]

I make that 3,300 additional seats if 31,700 is our actual capacity, but Moxey took out half a block in the Steve Bull lower for whatever reason, but yes, I agree completely - that is the way to go in the close season. That would nicely to tide us over while the SB gets re-built, hopefully in stages, with the upper tier and roof built after either a temp stand or new lower deck.

 

[jackdusty]

How many more does safe standing create vs seats now.
Thought rails were screwed into existing seat area

Ratio of up to 1.8 standing compared to a seat.
http://www.fsf.org.uk/latest-news/view/safe-standing-the-business-case

 

[lostwolf]

Ratio of up to 1.8 standing compared to a seat.
http://www.fsf.org.uk/latest-news/view/safe-standing-the-business-case

I love their creative accounting: "The ratio in Germany varies from 1:1.2 to 1:1.8 but let’s take 1.4 as a working average." Rounding up at its finest.

 

[Dan G WWFC]

Couldn't find the new ground thread so going to put this in here.

Tried to make my idea of the ground in LMA manager 2007. Think it gets the idea across, although not perfect, and it was sp hard to take the photo as the bloody stadium wouldn't stop spinning!

 

[Sussex Wolf]

Couldn't find the new ground thread so going to put this in here.

Tried to make my idea of the ground in LMA manager 2007. Think it gets the idea across, although not perfect, and it was sp hard to take the photo as the bloody stadium wouldn't stop spinning!

Nice

 

[lostwolf]

As others have argued, whip the roof off the South Bank, extend it back by 3-4k, then work on the Steve Bull. I'd make it deeper than the North Bank, which would add another 5 or 6k to the capacity, maybe half rounding into the South Bank, with the lower tier fully rounded. We need to relocate the posh seats out of the North Bank ASAP too, put them with the other poshos in the new stand. We would then have a 40k+ ground which would do us for now.

 

[old gold barmy army]

I have been up in Scotland for the last week, I attended the Edinburgh military tattoo and the stands we sat in were obviously temporary structures, but non the less impressive. I would estimate the structures were about 70 feet wide from front to back and wrapped around a court yard no bigger than 5 tennis courts, holding an impressive 8600 people in 29 rows of seats. We should be able to keep our attendance numbers up whilst redevelopment takes place.

 

[Peszkywolf]

Agree with that, but those stands are sort of permanent temporary, aren't they there all year but just they're like scaffold structures?
Sure we can keep 5000 in both south bank and bully while the new stands are built behind.

 

[old gold barmy army]

Agree with that, but those stands are sort of permanent temporary, aren't they there all year but just they're like scaffold structures?
Sure we can keep 5000 in both south bank and bully while the new stands are built behind.

As far as I'm aware, they are there for the duration of the tattoo and that is for the month of August only.

 

[cookey]

As far as I'm aware, they are there for the duration of the tattoo and that is for the month of August only.

They will be the same type of structure as out Graham Hughes temp stand - somewhere on a previous post their website is shown, they are used for all sorts, golf, etc

 

[old gold barmy army]

They will be the same type of structure as out Graham Hughes temp stand - somewhere on a previous post their website is shown, they are used for all sorts, golf, etc

here us a picture of the empty stands.

 

[stuj4z]

They are a lot better than they used to be. The Hockey stadium in 2012 was more Gillingham than this and that was only 6 years ago

 

[wolveaussie]

Someone mentioned on this thread digging down... I don't think that is possible anymore because when they build the new stand they moved the pitch across and build the new stand further forward than the one it replaced. I imagine that has removed the gap required to dig down and have enough space to slant in the new tier of seats.

 

[cookey]

Someone mentioned on this thread digging down... I don't think that is possible anymore because when they build the new stand they moved the pitch across and build the new stand further forward than the one it replaced. I imagine that has removed the gap required to dig down and have enough space to slant in the new tier of seats.

They could still, have more rows of seats at the sides and say 6foot walls at the ends allowing a couple more rows of electronic advertising screens - we seem to like those at the moment, starting to look like Piccadilly Circus

 

[Phitsanulok (Poole) Wolf]

You all know they are going to knock it down and build it better. compromises will never be acceptable to Fosun which is as it should be. Hopefully only codasyl that it is at the same site.

 

[TeddyWolf]

They could still, have more rows of seats at the sides and say 6foot walls at the ends allowing a couple more rows of electronic advertising screens - we seem to like those at the moment, starting to look like Piccadilly Circus

Doing that would result in not being able to see the nearest goal.
Forget about "digging down" unless the whole stadium (including the North Bank) is rebuilt.

 

[goldeneyed]

You all know they are going to knock it down and build it better. compromises will never be acceptable to Fosun which is as it should be. Hopefully only codasyl that it is at the same site.

Tend to agree. There will be no half measures. The new stadium needs to have a unity to it and not be cobbled together on the back of past mediocrity. A capacity of say 42,000 would be ideal in my view -10,000 more than now.

 

[stuj4z]

With a bit of thought they could modify the existing North Bank.
Yes it would cost money but would be cheaper than a rebuild and fix a lot of the issues with it.
Fill in the disabled 'bunkers' at the front and extend the platforms at the back of the stand all the way across.
You would have a solid wall, with no blindspots and extended disabled area and have the loudest support at the back of the stand like it naturally tends to happen.
The roof is replaceable going on how it was built in the first place and higher quality cladding than shed metal would make it look better.

 

[Peszkywolf]

Someone mentioned on this thread digging down... I don't think that is possible anymore because when they build the new stand they moved the pitch across and build the new stand further forward than the one it replaced. I imagine that has removed the gap required to dig down and have enough space to slant in the new tier of seats.

Didnt rangers do that, it would add almost 1000 seats just for one row all the way around. Trouble is they would be even more open to the elements.
Personally think we should go relatively cheap extending the south bank (cram them in, noone sits anyway and have a big beer garden underneath. Personally think a basic concourse sort of adds to the atmosphere), but build a nice big steve bull stand.

 

[Chiswick_Wolf]

Very expensive to dig down in comparison to other options. Whole pitch needs lowering which involves removing a lot of earth and would also mean things such as drainage and undersoil heating would require digging up and relaying etc. A lot of upheaval for a few hundred extra seats when extending backwards enables a much greater return on the investment. Clubs only seem to do it when they are literally maxed out elsewhere.

 

[RosehillWolf]

If we are down with the dead men after the first dozen games I doubt the ground re development will have the same gusto as previously mentioned

 

[Sussex Wolf]

With a bit of thought they could modify the existing North Bank.
Yes it would cost money but would be cheaper than a rebuild and fix a lot of the issues with it.
Fill in the disabled 'bunkers' at the front and extend the platforms at the back of the stand all the way across.
You would have a solid wall, with no blindspots and extended disabled area and have the loudest support at the back of the stand like it naturally tends to happen.
The roof is replaceable going on how it was built in the first place and higher quality cladding than shed metal would make it look better.

I agree with the kind of fixes you suggest. When fixing the roof, it may also be possible to extend the back of the stand a little and add a few rows without raising the height of the roof at the front. This could add a few thousand to the capacity and help justify the cost of replacing the roof. The new roof could be extended further forward and tilted down, at least partly, to improve the acoustics and weather protection.

 

[Honved]

Just a bit of idle thinking. Spending other people's money. Don't worry, this isn't a suggestions of what they NEED to do. Just a solution I'd think about if it were my money.

I like that Man City's training complex is next to the stadium. I think it helps create a feeling of 'home' for the players, the mentality that visting teams really are trespassing on your patch. What I'd do (again, if i was mega rich and it was my money) is try to buy all the land from Asda up to the island, and the park across the road. Effectively, close half of Waterloo Road. Then on the other side of Stafford Road, buy the land that's currently earmarked for University development, and the space next to it. I'd work with the University to create a 'Wolverhampton Sporting Campus,' a set of shared facilities (and costs) between the club and the Uni, that replaced Compton, had extra pitches, some buildings for the Uni and, as a priority, the main training building would be attached to a stadium. Say 20k permanent seats, 12k temp. The Kingpower was built in a year, so the 'training' stadium could be built quickly. Wolves could then play in that stadium in the short term, leaving Molineux free to be demolished and rebuilt, it's position adjusted slightly, square on to Waterloo Road, or further up into the car park. Ready for the club to move back into a great stadium. Once back at the Mol, the training stadium could be used as the club's main training pitch, and as a home stadium for the U23's, for the women's team, maybe for a local non-league team if they needed it. Then fill in some of the remaining space with good parking options.

As I said, just wishful thinking. It's not going to happen. But it's an idea of how the space could be used.

 

[Peszkywolf]

No offence but I think that would be bad for the city, think you neee to make the most of places with high land value and transport links (like town centres & inner city). A lot of people could and should live in that area from Asda to the canal.
East Manchester had pretty low land value as it was a bit of a dump and no tram when it was first built.

 

[stuj4z]

Man City have a unique situation in that there was so much brownfield land around that area that nothing was effected.
They also have a bridge connecting to the Etihad, it's not a complete complex.
If you see it every day is it that special? I don't think so

 

[Honved]

No offence but I think that would be bad for the city, think you neee to make the most of places with high land value and transport links (like town centres & inner city). A lot of people could and should live in that area from Asda to the canal.
East Manchester had pretty low land value as it was a bit of a dump and no tram when it was first built.

No offence taken, since I’m not making a suggestion for Fosun to follow. But TBH most of the areas I included are already in use, or selected for use, other than housing. The Uni is going to be using the canal side area for campus, a lot of the land north of Asda is uni accomodation. The flats on the side of Stafford Road could be easily built somewhere better as part of the project. It’d be creating a state of the art shared facility between the cities two most important institutions, providing a space for sport and learning.

But your view differs, absolutely fine, it’s a what-if.

 

[Honved]

Man City have a unique situation in that there was so much brownfield land around that area that nothing was effected.
They also have a bridge connecting to the Etihad, it's not a complete complex.
If you see it every day is it that special? I don't think so

They have a bridge across a road. Especially for you, I’ll ad a bridge across a road into this fantasy.

 

[Peszkywolf]

It would be quite unique you're right...and would create the Wolves Quarter Not sure it's that essential, players go to training, go home. Go to the game, then go home. Maybe it makes the step up to playing at Molineux even more special?
Anyway, I like suggestions or what if grounds and buildings etc. Think north inner city of Wolverhampton will be pretty different in 10 years time.

 

[lostwolf]

Just a bit of idle thinking. Spending other people's money. Don't worry, this isn't a suggestions of what they NEED to do. Just a solution I'd think about if it were my money.

I like that Man City's training complex is next to the stadium. I think it helps create a feeling of 'home' for the players, the mentality that visting teams really are trespassing on your patch. What I'd do (again, if i was mega rich and it was my money) is try to buy all the land from Asda up to the island, and the park across the road. Effectively, close half of Waterloo Road. Then on the other side of Stafford Road, buy the land that's currently earmarked for University development, and the space next to it. I'd work with the University to create a 'Wolverhampton Sporting Campus,' a set of shared facilities (and costs) between the club and the Uni, that replaced Compton, had extra pitches, some buildings for the Uni and, as a priority, the main training building would be attached to a stadium. Say 20k permanent seats, 12k temp. The Kingpower was built in a year, so the 'training' stadium could be built quickly. Wolves could then play in that stadium in the short term, leaving Molineux free to be demolished and rebuilt, it's position adjusted slightly, square on to Waterloo Road, or further up into the car park. Ready for the club to move back into a great stadium. Once back at the Mol, the training stadium could be used as the club's main training pitch, and as a home stadium for the U23's, for the women's team, maybe for a local non-league team if they needed it. Then fill in some of the remaining space with good parking options.

As I said, just wishful thinking. It's not going to happen. But it's an idea of how the space could be used.

When you go to Citeh though, it doesn't feel as you're trespassing on their patch, it's more like you've wandered into a post-industrial soulless nightmare. Going into Moss Side was a different matter. They are not a model I'd like to follow, for so many reasons, but on the ground issue I prefer a ground that grows more organically. All of my favourite British grounds are like this: Hillsborough, Villa Park, Molineux, Anfield, Old Trafford, St. James's etc. At all of these places, you feel as if you're going to the football, not to an NFL game or suchlike.

This is is one of those entirely subjective things though, you and I will never agree as we apparently have diametrically opposed views about what makes a good day out at the football (which has to be what it comes down to, not what someone in China makes of the ground or whether it looks like a nice shape from the air).

*edit, I've misrepresented your view of what makes going to the football fun for effect. I just hate the widespread obsession with constant renewal and the need to have something flashy to show off about...

 

[ShropshireLad]

I prefer a ground that grows more organically. All of my favourite British grounds are like this: Hillsborough, Villa Park, Molineux, Anfield, Old Trafford, St. James's etc. At all of these places, you feel as if you're going to the football, not to an NFL game or suchlike.

I also like Fulham's ground for that reason.

 

[lostwolf]

I also like Fulham's ground for that reason.

Me too, shame about their robo-stewards. There are loads of others I love, like Fratton Park and the City Ground, I just didn't want people to think I was suggesting we ought to have a small old fashioned ground; instead I'd like a big (40k+) ground but one on the current 'footprint' which develops slowly and carefully (an evolution not a revolution I suppose).

 

[ShropshireLad]

Me too, shame about their robo-stewards. There are loads of others I love, like Fratton Park and the City Ground, I just didn't want people to think I was suggesting we ought to have a small old fashioned ground; instead I'd like a big (40k+) ground but one on the current 'footprint' which develops slowly and carefully (an evolution not a revolution I suppose).

I know what you mean, matey. I have the same view. My Stoke pal hates the new ground there and would prefer the old one despite its use by date having passed.

 

[lostwolf]

I know what you mean, matey. I have the same view. My Stoke pal hates the new ground there and would prefer the old one despite its use by date having passed.

The sad thing for them is that there was LOADS of space behind that stand to the left of the old away end, so they could've expanded the Victoria Ground on that location. The Boothen End could've been expanded too. I'd feel sorry for them if... I did.

 

[Honved]

When you go to Citeh though, it doesn't feel as you're trespassing on their patch, it's more like you've wandered into a post-industrial soulless nightmare. Going into Moss Side was a different matter.

That’s completely different to the point I made. I wasn’t talking about your/our view of it. (I really liked Maine Road.) I was talking about the players. Having the stadium and training complex so close can create the idea of home for them. That people are coming into where they ‘live.’ That’s a completely different vibe to when they spend all week training a few miles away, and one day a fortnight at the stadium. I can see it being a big difference mentally.

Now, as to our fan experiences, I don’t think we disagree as much as you think. But the fan experience will always be whatever the fans make it.

 

[Honved]

Think north inner city of Wolverhampton will be pretty different in 10 years time.

Agreed. I think this is one of the most exciting parts of Athens Fosun project. If they bring the level of success to the club that they want to, it will regenerate the area.

 

[lostwolf]

That’s completely different to the point I made. I wasn’t talking about your/our view of it. (I really liked Maine Road.) I was talking about the players. Having the stadium and training complex so close can create the idea of home for them. That people are coming into where they ‘live.’ That’s a completely different vibe to when they spend all week training a few miles away, and one day a fortnight at the stadium. I can see it being a big difference mentally.

Now, as to our fan experiences, I don’t think we disagree as much as you think. But the fan experience will always be whatever the fans make it.

Ah, I see what you mean now, ta for clarifying mate. I'm still not sure I'd like to see the area around Molineux monopolised by us though.

I'll see you at the Fosun wine bar on Old Gold Street in 2020