Ground redevelopment

[Newbridge Wolf]

Hi, I was fifty last Friday and my son bought me anstadium tour ticket. The guy showing us around said something in front of the Stan Cullis which struck me as new news.
He said Fosun had committed that if we averaged 26000 then they would redevelop the ground. The redevelopment he described was the original plan, new tier on south bank rebuild Steve bill etc.
I asked what he meant by average, over a seaaon? He said he didn't know but that is what Fosun had said and (his words) so far they'd been true to their word.
Met Danny Bath in the kit room and the guy also said never seen a player in on a Sunday unless he was transferring ?

Interesting tour !

Not new I'm afraid, it was an interview with Jeff Shi last season.

Doesn't quite fit with me to be honest. FOSUN have a vision for the club, and a lopsided ground isn't part of that, I can't imagine that they won't want the club to be seen to be playing in a state of the art arena. As we've seen with FOSUN though, what they say, and what they do when it comes to spending money or moving forwards hasn't always tallied up, rarely even, albeit in a good way so far!

 

[Kiddywolves]

Not new I'm afraid, it was an interview with Jeff Shi last season.

Doesn't quite fit with me to be honest. FOSUN have a vision for the club, and a lopsided ground isn't part of that, I can't imagine that they won't want the club to be seen to be playing in a state of the art arena. As we've seen with FOSUN though, what they say, and what they do when it comes to spending money or moving forwards hasn't always tallied up, rarely even, albeit in a good way so far!

Stadium won't be lopsided once fully developed though will it? Or did you mean it as they were develop before 26k average because of that?

 

[Wandsworth Wolf]

When the horseshoe is complete, Molineux will be amazing. I quite like the idea that the Billy Wright will stand alone. They could always extend the corners in time.
It will much cheaper to finish the ground rather than starting again (as the site has no resale value because of the leasehold).
New Stan Cullis was £15m. So I'm guessing around £50m to do the other two? Anfield's new stand cost £115m.

 

[Kiddywolves]

Do people honestly think before just saying buy ASDA. You only have to look at a satellite view to see that the site is smaller than the one we're currently on. You'd barely be able to fit in the current stadium, let alone one with a much larger footprint like is being talked about. In addition it would be right up against residential properties, which you'd never get planning permission for.

I would prefer yeh stadium stays where it is, Steve bull gets rebuilt as the new main stand. And the land the uni campus and Asda sits on gets redeveloped as a entertainment district. Bars/restaurants, big screen and square, mini 5 aside league, leisure complex etc. The uni accommodation could be built above the bars. The place would be buzzing on a Saturday and lively every day of the week- may even attract some new fans form the uni

 

[ShropshireLad]

If Fosun redevelop if the gates are a steady 26,000 that'll be a shed load of fans not being able to attend if we don't relocate. Season tickets will be at a premium and few, if any, tickets will be available for the casual supporter. It's a thorny problem all ways round.

 

[Newbridge Wolf]

Stadium won't be lopsided once fully developed though will it? Or did you mean it as they were develop before 26k average because of that?

I mean I don't believe that they'll not have any plans to develop, or just be waiting for the crowds to be filling it. Most clubs/owners would be waiting to be able to justify expansion before having to spend money, but for FOSUN this will be about the image of the club, not whether we need the extra capacity.

 

[Newbridge Wolf]

I would prefer yeh stadium stays where it is, Steve bull gets rebuilt as the new main stand. And the land the uni campus and Asda sits on gets redeveloped as a entertainment district. Bars/restaurants, big screen and square, mini 5 aside league, leisure complex etc. The uni accommodation could be built above the bars. The place would be buzzing on a Saturday and lively every day of the week- may even attract some new fans form the uni

This would be great, the Amsterdam Arena is similar, however I don't see it fitting in with the existing Westside development that will taking place soon. Wolverhampton isn't big enough to support two similar developments like that so close to each other.

 

[Newbridge Wolf]

When the horseshoe is complete, Molineux will be amazing. I quite like the idea that the Billy Wright will stand alone. They could always extend the corners in time.
It will much cheaper to finish the ground rather than starting again (as the site has no resale value because of the leasehold).
New Stan Cullis was £15m. So I'm guessing around £50m to do the other two? Anfield's new stand cost £115m.

I'd go with a horseshoe of building the two sides similar to the North Bank, and then redeveloping the South Bank as a single tier.

For costs, think it was quoted as around £25m for the sides and £15m behind the goal.

Re: Anfield, £40m of that was buying up land and houses around the ground. They spent £74m on the stand itself. It's a huge stand, but the money goes up at a fast rate the more corporate facilities you build in.

 

[ShropshireLad]

I mean I don't believe that they'll not have any plans to develop, or just be waiting for the crowds to be filling it. Most clubs/owners would be waiting to be able to justify expansion before having to spend money, but for FOSUN this will be about the image of the club, not whether we need the extra capacity.

I'm sure they won't redevelop before we get promotion which could be at the end of this season, anyway. If the crowds stabilise at say 25,000 which wouldn't be too bad given recent attendances since our foray into the Prem with Mick then I feel the demand whilst in the Prem would jump to full capacity.

If they were to develop half of the Steve Bull stand then we'd lose about 5,000 but perhaps they'd develop the two corners to create additional capacity but that would still leave a shortfall of about 4,000.

 

[Newbridge Wolf]

I'm sure they won't redevelop before we get promotion which could be at the end of this season, anyway. If the crowds stabilise at say 25,000 which wouldn't be too bad given recent attendances since our foray into the Prem with Mick then I feel the demand whilst in the Prem would jump to full capacity.

If they were to develop half of the Steve Bull stand then we'd lose about 5,000 but perhaps they'd develop the two corners to create additional capacity but that would still leave a shortfall of about 4,000.

Seem to remember from last time that if they started the demolition the day after the final game of the season they could pretty quickly open up a shell of a lower tier with 6000 by about October, so that would be 3-5 matches with a reduced capacity and only 3000 down for the rest of the season?

 

[stuj4z]

If Fosun redevelop if the gates are a steady 26,000 that'll be a shed load of fans not being able to attend if we don't relocate. Season tickets will be at a premium and few, if any, tickets will be available for the casual supporter. It's a thorny problem all ways round.

Season tickets are capped at 23000 anyway because of having to have a certain amount for match to match sales.
Season ticket holders would be fine it would just mean less for everyone else for 1/2 years

 

[ShropshireLad]

Seem to remember from last time that if they started the demolition the day after the final game of the season they could pretty quickly open up a shell of a lower tier with 6000 by about October, so that would be 3-5 matches with a reduced capacity and only 3000 down for the rest of the season?

That would seem to be a very reasonable interim plan but would they be able to continue the work for the second tier throughout the season? I guess they could like at Spurs.

 

[ShropshireLad]

Season tickets are capped at 23000 anyway because of having to have a certain amount for match to match sales.
Season ticket holders would be fine it would just mean less for everyone else for 1/2 years

I can go to bed now not feeling too unsettled!!

 

[itsmee]

Dont get carried away
Only 3 games into the season

 

[Newbridge Wolf]

That would seem to be a very reasonable interim plan but would they be able to continue the work for the second tier throughout the season? I guess they could like at Spurs.

Yeah, I'd imagine if you wanted to do it even quicker, the best way of doing it would be to knock down the existing stand, level the front half, put a temporary stand up, and then build the upper tier and roof behind/over it, before finishing off with the lower deck in front of that the following summer.

 

[Wagstaffe Was Magic]

Not this again .....

Let's concentrate entirely on getting the Premier League team together and once together let's concentrate entirely on establishing that team in the Premier League for the long term!!

Call yourselves Wolves fans gentlemen .... Have you learned nothing from our history !

Nothing to be seen here

 

[Ulfhednar]

I don't think they need a bigger stadium than they could develop Molineux into. I think they'd rather have it packed all the time with a waiting list for season tickets. (I don't think they'd use the excess demand to exploit the locals over price, it would be exclusive by loyalty & maybe locality rather than price). It would make corporate more attractive & profitable. I think in the future more & more of the new audience Fosun are going after will be watching remotely via media. It's maybe even more profit per head than housing more in a stadium.

 

[SanFranWolf]

The plans for the completed new stadium stated that once built the new ground would house 36,000. That's without a safe standing south bank and without corners connecting to the Billy Wright stand. I'd guess we could get up to 40,000 if needed.

There's just no good solution as to when to build the rest of it.

If it was me I'd start the Steve Bull next summer irrespective of where we end up and build it in two sections - get the lower tier done first and once that is habitable build the upper tier on top.

The following season I'd relocate the south bank and do that next.

It's clear that Fosun have massive ambitions for the club, and so I say that purely because they don't intend to mess around with the team and shouldn't be expected to mess around with stadium development once it lands in their cross hairs either.

Incidentally I'd scrap the North bank design and as has been said many times on here convert the design into a massive single tier safe standing stand - just like it used to be...

@Berlin Wolf - Hey Phil, out of interest how do teams in Germany handle this sort of thing?

 

[ShropshireLad]

Not this again .....

Let's concentrate entirely on getting the Premier League team together and once together let's concentrate entirely on establishing that team in the Premier League for the long term!!

Call yourselves Wolves fans gentlemen .... Have you learned nothing from our history !

Nothing to be seen here

@Newbridge Wolf and myself were having a conversation which might also interest others. Is that a problem?

And how do I concentrate on getting to the Prem? I can concentrate on getting out of the house on time to catch the bus to catch the train in order to get to Euston on time to catch the train to Wolvo...but by what means of transport do I use to get to the Prem?

How do I establish the team? I haven't got enough dosh, have you?

And I do, indeed, call myself a Wolves fan!! What's so special about you? And as for the history (besides having been a history teacher), I reckon I've demonstrated on here over the last 18 months that I'm pretty well up with a lot of things that have happened since 1960. The building of the John Ireland and its repercussions in the context of when it was built has nothing at all to do with the re-build of the Steve Bull in the context of what Fosun have expressed that they want to do. "Historians/philosophers have hitherto only interpreted the world in various ways; the point is to change it..." and Fosun want to change it.

 

[Wagstaffe Was Magic]

@Newbridge Wolf and myself were having a conversation which might also interest others. Is that a problem?

And how do I concentrate on getting to the Prem? I can concentrate on getting out of the house on time to catch the bus to catch the train in order to get to Euston on time to catch the train to Wolvo...but by what means of transport do I use to get to the Prem?

How do I establish the team? I haven't got enough dosh, have you?

And I do, indeed, call myself a Wolves fan!! What's so special about you? And as for the history (besides having been a history teacher), I reckon I've demonstrated on here over the last 18 months that I'm pretty well up with a lot of things that have happened since 1960. The building of the John Ireland and its repercussions in the context of when it was built has nothing at all to do with the re-build of the Steve Bull in the context of what Fosun have expressed that they want to do. "Historians have hitherto only interpreted the world in various ways; the point is to change it..." and Fosun want to change it.

What makes me so special??? Oh I don't know! First of all, it's very kind of you to say so I mean we barely know one another ..... lots of little things I guess

Just out of curiosity what capacity do you think we need??

 

[wwfc9]

Still amazes me how people think we can just "buy out Asda," it's not a corner shop.

To me or you it's not but to fosun it quite literally is !!

 

[WasStefan]

Asda are a massive company owned by the largest employer in the world. That Asda is a gold mine, it's always full.

People living in the cloud cuckoo land

 

[Macman]

Well said ShropshireLad. Frustrates me when we want to discuss the stadium, so many posters label us as 'call yourselves Wolves fans', 'living in cloud cuckoo land' and 'oh not this again' etc. we want to discuss the possibility of the stadium redevelopment, the fors and againsts etc. If you don't want to discuss it then don't patronise us like we aren't allowed a voice.

 

[Deleted member 4594]

To me or you it's not but to fosun it quite literally is !!

Mate, I think Asda are quite wealthy themselves.

 

[cannockwolf]

Mate, I think Asda are quite wealthy themselves.

you mean Walmart are

edit:
Ive just googled it and apparently their worth $250b

 

[ShropshireLad]

Well said ShropshireLad. Frustrates me when we want to discuss the stadium, so many posters label us as 'call yourselves Wolves fans', 'living in cloud cuckoo land' and 'oh not this again' etc. we want to discuss the possibility of the stadium redevelopment, the fors and againsts etc. If you don't want to discuss it then don't patronise us like we aren't allowed a voice.

Cheers mate. I don't want senseless arguments ad infinitum with anyone but when a couple or more are having a chat about something pertinent it gets me when someone sticks their oar in and acts the high almighty and patronisingly comments about their topic.

If I don't think something is relevant or significant to what I want to read I just scroll on and that's what I think others should do.

Anyhow, I should add that I don't have a problem with W W M, I've given my reply so that's it as far as I'm concerned.

 

[we love jez moxey]

For what it's worth... If they wanted to increase capacity without any reduction in the meantime... Couldn't they build an extension to the existing south bank behind it, then finish it off and begin demolition of the Steve Bull during pre season?

 

[ShropshireLad]

For what it's worth... If they wanted to increase capacity without any reduction in the meantime... Couldn't they build an extension to the existing south bank behind it, then finish it off and begin demolition of the Steve Bull during pre season?

Interesting proposition. I'm no engineer, though.

 

[Deleted member 3604]

I don't think they need a bigger stadium than they could develop Molineux into. I think they'd rather have it packed all the time with a waiting list for season tickets. (I don't think they'd use the excess demand to exploit the locals over price, it would be exclusive by loyalty & maybe locality rather than price). It would make corporate more attractive & profitable. I think in the future more & more of the new audience Fosun are going after will be watching remotely via media. It's maybe even more profit per head than housing more in a stadium.

That already occurred when we were last in the PL - Moxey was quite vociferous on those choosing to watch it in the pub. That new North Bank will be buzzing if we reach the PL and have an attractive team. It's whole purpose was to create revenue to make the club self sufficient. Why would Fosun concentrate on developing Molineux when they can only fill it by selling tickets at £5. Regardless of what anybody thinks they are not running the club as a charity to cater for those who only sing when we are winning.

 

[Pengwern]

For what it's worth... If they wanted to increase capacity without any reduction in the meantime... Couldn't they build an extension to the existing south bank behind it, then finish it off and begin demolition of the Steve Bull during pre season?

Similar to my suggestion earlier in this thread, which no-one has commented on. Mine was to expand the South Bank around the corners. In fact, both could be done in the close season without any great disruption, except to dismantle the current roof, which might mean three or four home games being re-scheduled or shifted to Villa Park. We need to keep the South Bank single tier and make it bigger. Doing both would just about double its capacity and 5,000 of the 6,000 Wolves fans in the Steve Bull Upper could become South Bankers for a season.

 

[Ulfhednar]

That already occurred when we were last in the PL - Moxey was quite vociferous on those choosing to watch it in the pub. That new North Bank will be buzzing if we reach the PL and have an attractive team. It's whole purpose was to create revenue to make the club self sufficient. Why would Fosun concentrate on developing Molineux when they can only fill it by selling tickets at £5. Regardless of what anybody thinks they are not running the club as a charity to cater for those who only sing when we are winning.

Molineux being full is vital to the atmosphere Fosun will want to create, a packed loyal enthused Molineux cheering the team on is part of the product they want to sell, that will encourage others further a field to want to join in, remotely (like Nationally or in China), and feel they're part of it. I don't think it makes a meaningful difference to that media product if it's a 35k or 75k stadium.

 

[Elvis Wolf]

Don't know why they don't do something about the temporary stand.
Either close it down completely or bring it up to licencing standard and reopen it.
Maybe it's not cost effective though, to sort out the crumbling concrete, on which the seats are fixed. Leaving it as it is brings in advertising revenue.
So I've probably answered my own question!

 

[paddy]

How many more does safe standing create vs seats now.
Thought rails were screwed into existing seat area

 

[Deleted member 4456]

Similar to my suggestion earlier in this thread, which no-one has commented on. Mine was to expand the South Bank around the corners. In fact, both could be done in the close season without any great disruption, except to dismantle the current roof, which might mean three or four home games being re-scheduled or shifted to Villa Park. We need to keep the South Bank single tier and make it bigger. Doing both would just about double its capacity and 5,000 of the 6,000 Wolves fans in the Steve Bull Upper could become South Bankers for a season.

If that's the solution, why not just play at Villa Park for a season while the rest of the stadium is rebuilt to plan?

 

[Deleted member 3604]

It appears that any form of safe standing also means you are still allocated a space to stand in which probably defeats the object. Much can be made of a walk-up audience that can pay on the gate but I think there should be blocks rather than individual spaces i.e. a group of supporter, just turn up and pick a block so they can all be together rather than get treated like battery chickens. I means lets be honest the old terraces with the barriers worked quite well if you didn't allow too many in.

 

[Essex Wolf]

If that's the solution, why not just play at Villa Park for a season while the rest of the stadium is rebuilt to plan?

Good point and the Brummies would get to see passionate support and atmosphere.

 

[A3wolf]

It appears that any form of safe standing also means you are still allocated a space to stand in which probably defeats the object. Much can be made of a walk-up audience that can pay on the gate but I think there should be blocks rather than individual spaces i.e. a group of supporter, just turn up and pick a block so they can all be together rather than get treated like battery chickens. I means lets be honest the old terraces with the barriers worked quite well if you didn't allow too many in.

Agree - that standing set up like at Celtic completely defeats what it's all about in my opinion.

 

[Derby Wolf]

WMP police would never allow Wolves to play at Villa park. Wolves fans traveling to VP running the gauntlet of Albion, Blues and Villa fans whether every other weekend would never fly. Those who enjoy a scrap would love it mind.

 

[old gold barmy army]

The thread on here a while back mentioned that some old dear in the Steve Bull had heard a rumour that buying ASDA and redeveloping there is a series option for Fosun (as you say, like Spurs). That way, current Molineux remains unaffected, and we have a new state-of-the-art Molineux still close to the town centre and more importantly, on the old site of the current stadium (give or take 100 yards).
Seems the perfect solution for me.

Would even be happy if it was called 'The Fosun Stadium, Molineux'. That way, everyone would still call it Molineux. Come on Fosun, you can do this!

I posted that comment, the old dear in question sat in the North Bank. She said she knew someone who worked at the club and Fosun were looking at a new location out of town if the plan didn't come to fruition. She said she wouldn't attend if the club moved. She didn't attend the last 5 home games last season and she wasn't here for Middlesbrough.!!!!!

 

[RichB]

Whilst there are so many logistical and financial plusses to a outpost built out of town stadium I have to be honest.... I'd hate it. It's not for me. It's just losing identity and history and I'll be honest I'd sooner we stick with what we've got than that as an option.

maybe down the line if we're established in the prem and even considering the dizzy heights of European competition (not running away with myself.... if it ever happens it's many moons away) we would maybe need a huge stadium.... such as ManCity found out with there meteoric rise (and got themselves a stadium on the cheap.... a bit like the blues rumours of time ago).... I don't know what we would do if for example we needed 50k plus to accommodate the new fans from London etc... in honesty I don't care though as I've got my season ticket