Gary O'Neil - tactics

[Stourwolf]

Especially when we might lose key players....

That’s so scary !! But probably will happen

 

[Mutchy]

How much credit and goodwill does GON actually have in the bank?
Or will be people be quicker to turn if they see an opportunity to have a go at justifying the early negativity?
I dunno, I get the sense that there may be some wagons circling already...

 

[Bawtry Wolf]

Wouldn’t surprise me if we have another pre-season like last season. The noise coming out from GON are very like Lopetegui and Lage. He’s gone from being bullish about having a pre-season to saying if things don’t change and we stay with a small squad we might not be so lucky. I also note that he said at the weekend that no conversations have been had about next season. In January Hobbs was talking about contract extensions. Think we’ll be starting next season with a new manager.

 

[WorcesterWanderer]

Wouldn’t surprise me if we have another pre-season like last season. The noise coming out from GON are very like Lopetegui and Lage. He’s gone from being bullish about having a pre-season to saying if things don’t change and we stay with a small squad we might not be so lucky. I also note that he said at the weekend that no conversations have been had about next season. In January Hobbs was talking about contract extensions. Think we’ll be starting next season with a new manager.

I do not want to see him leave at all because I have been very loud about how much I rate him and I still do of course- but sadly I think you may be right.

 

[WeAreTheWolvesII]

How much credit and goodwill does GON actually have in the bank?
Or will be people be quicker to turn if they see an opportunity to have a go at justifying the early negativity?
I dunno, I get the sense that there may be some wagons circling already...

There's an anger/frustration brewing at the whole club, so everyone will be in the firing line.

It would be unfair on O'Neil but that's football.

 

[WorcesterWanderer]

There's an anger/frustration brewing at the whole club, so everyone will be in the firing line.

It would be unfair on O'Neil but that's football.

When things go wrong, anybody who is able to have fingers pointed at them will have fingers pointed at them. Unfair, as you said, but that is just how it goes.

 

[Contrarian]

It's starting to have that "something doesn't look right" look about it. Similar to how we looked back in the Covid season v Albion, with Nuno looking dejected and the players not bothered. Same in the run in and start of the season under Bruno. Yes, we have excuses, but there's always an excuse for failure.

Can't quite place it, but we haven't look the same since around the Chelsea/Fulham match. Yes, injuries, tiredness etc, but those players last night are better than what we saw. And our defence/midfield shouldn't be any more tired than anybody elses. We are consistently starting matches poorly, on the back foot. Would like to see us at least look prepared for Luton and not give them 2 or 3 decent chances in the first 10 mins, because we seem to do this every match since at least the Coventry one.

 

[WorcesterWanderer]

It's starting to have that "something doesn't look right" look about it. Similar to how we looked back in the Covid season v Albion, with Nuno looking dejected and the players not bothered. Same in the run in and start of the season under Bruno. Yes, we have excuses, but there's always an excuse for failure.

Can't quite place it, but we haven't look the same since around the Chelsea/Fulham match. Yes, injuries, tiredness etc, but those players last night are better than what we saw. And our defence/midfield shouldn't be any more tired than anybody elses. We are consistently starting matches poorly, on the back foot. Would like to see us at least look prepared for Luton and not give them 2 or 3 decent chances in the first 10 mins, because we seem to do this every match since at least the Coventry one.

Agreed. All the players I'd been raving about all day were off the paces yesterday. It was really easy to see. Not sure what it is, whether it's something inside the club that we haven't heard yet or whatever, but something was very off to me.

 

[Jefe]

How much credit and goodwill does GON actually have in the bank? Or will be people be quicker to turn if they see an opportunity to have a go at justifying the early negativity? I dunno, I get the sense that there may be some wagons circling already...

Took me a while to get fully on board with Gary but I am now, and it would take an equally long time for me to fall off the GON wagon - certainly not a handful of matches where his hands have been tied by circumstances foisted upon him by the owners. The players look like they are done for the season; to an extent I don't blame them, as long as they don't disgrace us like they did at the end of last season.

 

[WorcesterWanderer]

Took me a while to get fully on board with Gary but I am now, and it would take an equally long time for me to fall off the GON wagon - certainly not a handful of matches where his hands have been tied by circumstances foisted upon him by the owners. The players look like they are done for the season; to an extent I don't blame them, as long as they don't disgrace us like they did at the end of last season.

Exactly this for me, your first point I mean. It took me until around Xmas to beck him but now I do I'm not going to turn on him after a bad run that's not entirely down to him. I can criticise him, sure, but by no means do I want him to leave.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

If the poor form and football carries over to next season the knives will be out.

Without replacing quality with quality we will struggle

So take out Kilman, Neto, RAN & Joao Gomes we are going to need a fair few bodies to repair us. May seem a little drastic but with recent performances I wouldn’t be that bothered if we can get good money for them. The lack of creativity last night was frightening. It took Bouba to come on for us to show anything

Nobody is bothered about the rest of the results this season. It’s how we plan and prepare for next season now that matters. But the objective of finishing 17th again probably be Jeff’s orders

 

[WorcesterWanderer]

If the poor form and football carries over to next season the knives will be out.

Without replacing quality with quality we will struggle

So take out Kilman, Neto, RAN & Joao Gomes we are going to need a fair few bodies to repair us. May seem a little drastic but with recent performances I wouldn’t be that bothered if we can get good money for them. The lack of creativity last night was frightening. It took Bouba to come on for us to show anything

When do you reckon things could start to turn if next season starts bad? And yes, as soon as he came on I was more excited and I heard a bit more noise. Lots of clapping around me when the substitution was announced.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

When do you reckon things could start to turn if next season starts bad? And yes, as soon as he came on I was more excited and I heard a bit more noise. Lots of clapping around me when the substitution was announced.

He left the changes too late though? Clear it wasn’t working. I’d say after 5-7 games if we haven’t won a game people will jump on the backs of the manager and owners could get toxic

 

[WorcesterWanderer]

He left the changes too late though? Clear it wasn’t working. I’d say after 5-7 games if we haven’t won a game people will jump on the backs of the manager and owners could get toxic

Oh yeah, far too late I agree there. Was quite baffled by that to be honest. And agreed again, I think it could get ugly if next seasons starts like that but I'm really hoping it doesn't go that way.

 

[Skrilla]

How much credit and goodwill does GON actually have in the bank?
Or will be people be quicker to turn if they see an opportunity to have a go at justifying the early negativity?
I dunno, I get the sense that there may be some wagons circling already...

I think regardless of these last four games results, he’s bought himself time next season.

Very few would have expected us to get to 43 points and comfortably safe by March when Julen walked out days before the start of the season.

That being said, this tailing off of form at the end of a season is very reminiscent of the “beginning of the end” for Lage, so it does genuinely concern me.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

Oh yeah, far too late I agree there. Was quite baffled by that to be honest. And agreed again, I think it could get ugly if next seasons starts like that but I'm really hoping it doesn't go that way.

Should of made 3 changes at half time but we looked knackered. Bouba and Chirewa was good. Less said about VAR the better.

I hope that doesn’t happen it’s a major summer for us. We have to strengthen the squad and the depth. Without replacing quality it really will be another scrap for 40pts and 17th.

Sorry about the result, hopefully you will enjoy the next game more.

 

[WorcesterWanderer]

Should of made 3 changes at half time but we looked knackered. Bouba and Chirewa was good. Less said about VAR the better.

I hope that doesn’t happen it’s a major summer for us. We have to strengthen the squad and the depth. Without replacing quality it really will be another scrap for 40pts and 17th.

This really should be a catalyst for change and a summer where we really back a manager who has done well for us. Going to be a frustrating window no matter the way it goes I think.

 

[wolfslair]

How much credit and goodwill does GON actually have in the bank?
Or will be people be quicker to turn if they see an opportunity to have a go at justifying the early negativity?
I dunno, I get the sense that there may be some wagons circling already...

He has credit in the bank, hence why I cannot see one person gloating about him being “a pe teacher” or other bad terms that were used.

We haven’t won on 9 games and last 8 in the league in relegation form.

Every game before last night many/if not all have supported him and the lads even though the results haven’t been there.

No one is calling for his head from what I can see.

People are making fair criticism of a very abject performance and a bad night at the office managerial for him last night and the fact despite 8 games with injuries we aren’t seeing much if any adjustment to the style of play. Which again is a fair criticism.

Everyone I can see is saying to back him in the summer!

And I see only concern from many that HE is the one who chooses to leave.

Most of the animosity about people who should leave the club is Jeff

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

This really should be a catalyst for change and a summer where we really back a manager who has done well for us. Going to be a frustrating window no matter the way it goes I think.

Well after the recent performances I’m not bothered who stays and who goes. To me if we can sign 10 players and improve the squad depth that will mean we can last the season without ridiculous injuries.

Quality is needed. Otherwise we are walking down a dangerous path. Is what it is. No point worrying about it.

I’m hoping we get some business done early with regards to links to some of the free agents is promising signs we are going to make moves.

 

[Fifty Niner]

I think regardless of these last four games results, he’s bought himself time next season.

Very few would have expected us to get to 43 points and comfortably safe by March when Julen walked out days before the start of the season.

That being said, this tailing off of form at the end of a season is very reminiscent of the “beginning of the end” for Lage, so it does genuinely concern me.

His comments as quoted by Nathan Judah doesn't bode well either.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

Yes, he's very much in the position Lage was for me. I know people villify Lage now, but we were talking about Europe in February of his first season, just like this one. Then it all fell apart and he blamed a lack of backing 'we never lost when we had a #9' sort of stuff. By West Ham away he was trying desperately to find a way, but it was never there.

O'Neil is a much better communicator, nobody ever really warmed to Lage as a person in the way we've bonded with Gary. Gary also has a competent recruitment team backing him. However the cracks started to show last night regarding his relationship with the board.

Fundamentally though, Nuno fell out with him over more backing, he gave money to Sellars who wasted it for Lage, Lopetegui left over money. Now O'Neil is frustrated by a lack of money. Shouldn't be too hard to work out where the blame really lies.

 

[WorcesterWanderer]

Well after the recent performances I’m not bothered who stays and who goes. To me if we can sign 10 players and improve the squad depth that will mean we can last the season without ridiculous injuries.

Quality is needed. Otherwise we are walking down a dangerous path. Is what it is. No point worrying about it.

I’m hoping we get some business done early with regards to links to some of the free agents is promising signs we are going to make moves.

Totally, after this run of form it is clear we need major work. I have no huge attachment to any player right now, they aren't loyal to their clubs anymore and the most important thing is improving the squad.

 

[WorcesterWanderer]

Yes, he's very much in the position Lage was for me. I know people villify Lage now, but we were talking about Europe in February of his first season, just like this one. Then it all fell apart and he blamed a lack of backing 'we never lost when we had a #9' sort of stuff. By West Ham away he was trying desperately to find a way, but it was never there.

O'Neil is a much better communicator, nobody ever really warmed to Lage as a person in the way we've bonded with Gary. Gary also has a competent recruitment team backing him. However the cracks started to show last night regarding his relationship with the board.

Fundamentally though, Nuno fell out with him over more backing, he gave money to Sellars who wasted it for Lage, Lopetegui left over money. Now O'Neil is frustrated by a lack of money. Shouldn't be too hard to work out where the blame really lies.

If the same issue comes up time and time again under several managers then the problem is obviously not the managers! **** it, let's start a gofund me and give GON something to spend on players...

 

[Oliwolf44]

If (big if obviously) we lose to Luton i can genuinely see us finishing 14th lol. Which is worse than i had predicted pre-season which seems a bit mad to say after such a promising start. From potential fa cup semi final and european run to absolute mid-table also rans.
Board are 90% to blame but O'Neill does have to take some responsibility though if this continues.
Think we will be about 12-15th next season and the one after that tbh.
To get into Europe lets say you need to finish top 8. I cant see us finishing above any of those in the top 9 at the moment next season. Let alone the potential of being overtaken by others. So its 'finish 17th' the target for the next couple of seasons i would bet.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

Totally, after this run of form it is clear we need major work. I have no huge attachment to any player right now, they aren't loyal to their clubs anymore and the most important thing is improving the squad.

Well said. Thing is if Jeff sells another manager short Guo has serious questions to answer.

I don’t think Hobbs and Gaz will hang around if the worst case scenario happens.

Our fans will probably hound Fosun out the club like they did with Steve Morgan.

Gaz has to be backed. If they don’t back him sell off the Crown Jewels it will be toxic chaos.

Be careful what you wish for and all that. We support the team whatever but not this circus we have behind the scenes

Say what you want about any previous manager but when they wanted backing it hasn’t really come. The fact the objective was to finish 17th says a lot about our ambitions.

I was quite confident before last night about next season. Now I’m not so sure. Let’s see what the summer brings. What Gary said to Judah. “You don’t see too many managers walking out on Premier League football clubs very often “So it gives you a clue as to some of the issues that we’ve had to deal with this season” Certainly hinting at a strong reminder…..

 

[WeAreTheWolvesII]

I think last night is the first time in a long time when the team underperformed when you look at it player for player. Even then, the fact so many aren't 100% fit is a valid excuse.

On the whole, O'Neil has got everything out of this group, and they're often in games and competitive.

So, he deserves huge credit for that and should have a lot of support because of it.

Again, it's his words, but our squad depth is the worst of the 92 clubs. I don't think people grasp how bad the squad depth really is, and part of that is because of O'Neil's work that had put us in a great position.

Last night was a rare off day.

 

[WorcesterWanderer]

Well said. Thing is if Jeff sells another manager short Guo has serious questions to answer.

I don’t think Hobbs and Gaz will hang around if the worst case scenario happens.

Our fans will probably hound Fosun out the club like they did with Steve Morgan.

Gaz has to be backed. If they don’t back him sell off the Crown Jewels it will be toxic chaos.

Be careful what you wish for and all that. We support the team whatever but not this circus we have behind the scenes

I was going to mention your last point. Supporting a club is not explainable to me, because a football club is not any group of people, it is an idea. What we support is each other, the community. The history we have and the links to the local heritage which I now have proud ties to via my other half.

That is what I support. It won't be a nice feeling if your worst case scenario happens, but if the owners sell off our best players and don't back yet another manager? The toxicity would be justified. I'd much rather see something like protests than in-fighting, though. We are all in this together.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

I was going to mention your last point. Supporting a club is not explainable to me, because a football club is not any group of people, it is an idea. What we support is each other, the community. The history we have and the links to the local heritage which I now have proud ties to via my other half.

That is what I support. It won't be a nice feeling if your worst case scenario happens, but if the owners sell off our best players and don't back yet another manager? The toxicity would be justified. I'd much rather see something like protests than in-fighting, though. We are all in this together.

Hopefully Jeff reads this. I think the message is pretty clear.

We all want the club to progress.

 

[Mugwump]

I think GON has got things wrong a few times lately, and i think partly he has contributed to some of our injuries by running certain players into the ground when he probably needed to compromise his system and style to keep players fit, but i think it would be harsh blame him so much he loses the goodwill he's built up so far. He's done better than i thought he would.

Its not going to be good to be going into next season though with something like 1 win in 11 games, which i think will probably happen. Next season though is going to be much harder and he will have more demands on him. He's had a season of pretty much no expectation or pressure really and he's exceeded expectations. He wont have that luxury next time around.

 

[WorcesterWanderer]

Hopefully Jeff reads this. I think the message is pretty clear.

We all want the club to progress.

And I'd love to think that he wants the same. Got to say by the way, I always enjoy our exchanges on here.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

If the same issue comes up time and time again under several managers then the problem is obviously not the managers! **** it, let's start a gofund me and give GON something to spend on players...

Ha ha yes, I'm shelling out £650 a year already though thanks.

 

[WorcesterWanderer]

Ha ha yes, I'm shelling out £650 a year already though thanks.

I am sure my jaunt into the club shop will fund a new striker LOL.

 

[steve vena]

If the poor form and football carries over to next season the knives will be out.

Without replacing quality with quality we will struggle

So take out Kilman, Neto, RAN & Joao Gomes we are going to need a fair few bodies to repair us. May seem a little drastic but with recent performances I wouldn’t be that bothered if we can get good money for them. The lack of creativity last night was frightening. It took Bouba to come on for us to show anything

Nobody is bothered about the rest of the results this season. It’s how we plan and prepare for next season now that matters. But the objective of finishing 17th again probably be Jeff’s orders

I'm sick of Fosun tbh. If Finishing 17th and staying up is their ambition, thanks for nothing.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

I'm sick of Fosun tbh. If Finishing 17th and staying up is their ambition, thanks for nothing.

May as well sell us and make a profit while they can but they want to stay here fans will get bored of finishing mid table. I understand we are a stepping stone club but at least show some ambition

 

[WorcesterWanderer]

May as well sell us and make a profit while they can but they want to stay here fans will get bored of finishing mid table. I understand we are a stepping stone club but at least show some ambition

Think it's a bit sad that, as someone who supports a club like Wolves, I am sometimes hesitant to go and think 'we should win a cup in five years time' etc. We should at least be ambitious enough for that to be a realistic target especially when you consider the stature of the FA & League cups these days, I think.

It's very hard to pinpoint exactly what I think of Fosun. I don't hate them. We had a fantastic time under them at first but I can also see that they've got a lot wrong over the last few years. Ultimately, I can't really look at the past to form an opinion of how they are in the present. It could very well be time to sell up if they really don't think they can propel us to the next level, whatever that may be.

 

[DanishWolf]

GON has made mistakes, and he isnt blameless for our recent run, despite bad luck with injuries.
However he still has plenty of credit in my book. He's obviously a talented manager, with lots of tactical knowledge, and good manmanagement skills. However he's also a very inexperienced manager, and just like with talented young players, that will mean more mistakes, bad spells, and what can sometimes seems like trying too much at once.

Having said that, this summer will be interesting. He needs to backed of course. We've needed a bigger squad for years, and especially if GON wants to continue this style of play, that seems to cost a lot of energy from the players.

But in case, he doesnt get that backing, and once again has to rely on a small squad, how does he react, in case he stays?
One of Lages problems was that he actually did adapt. He wanted to play a high pressing, attacking style of play, but realised it was impossible with a tiny squad and Neves and Moutinho in midfield (quality, but not who you want in a high pressing midfield). So he adapted into a much more boring, but for some time actually effective style of play.

Will GON do the same? Or will he do like this season - Keep the style of play, and hope we've enough points on board, when players burn out?

Now dream scenario of course is, that he's backed, so we can play his way succesfully throughout the whole season.

 

[WolvesAndCows]

If (big if obviously) we lose to Luton i can genuinely see us finishing 14th lol. Which is worse than i had predicted pre-season which seems a bit mad to say after such a promising start. From potential fa cup semi final and european run to absolute mid-table also rans.
Board are 90% to blame but O'Neill does have to take some responsibility though if this continues.
Think we will be about 12-15th next season and the one after that tbh.
To get into Europe lets say you need to finish top 8. I cant see us finishing above any of those in the top 9 at the moment next season. Let alone the potential of being overtaken by others. So its 'finish 17th' the target for the next couple of seasons i would bet.

I don't believe that last sentence for a second.

 

[Oliwolf44]

I don't believe that last sentence for a second.

i think thats fair enough. and would row back on that one. the mist descends when the angry typing starts!
would qualify it as i dont see a push beyond midtable obscurity

 

[WorcesterWanderer]

i think thats fair enough. and would row back on that one. the mist descends when the angry typing starts!
would qualify it as i dont see a push beyond midtable obscurity

That seems more realistic, I agree that we won't push beyond midtable anytime soon unless there are big changes.

 

[Bill S Preston Esq.]

He did with Lemina what lage did with neves……..

And lage got crucified…… will gon get the same criticism?

He will from me. I'm fed up of his tinkering with Lemina's position. Playing him at the back and as a forward is ludicrous and not a surprise it's backfired.