Gary O'Neil - tactics

[oldgoldheart]

Not having a go at anyone but I re-read the first page of this thread. How times have changed (random selection):









To be fair, there were one or two more positive contributions, also ...







He's doing alright, ain't he?

Freely admit i was 100% wrong

 

[wwbug]

Who is in the strongest position in contract negotiations.
I hope GON gets some guarantees on not shrinking the squad even more !
Fosun needs to be told that the Premier League is 11 a- side not 5 a- side .

 

[brianm]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1767566396731384100

Some observations from the Fulham game (I was half cut while I watched so made sure I paid closer attention on the second watch!)

Question, Gully: How much overlap is there between what Gaz is doing and Gegenpress principles? It feels like Wolves play a territorial game in a way, but I don't have enough sophistication tactically to say if it's really related or not.

 

[WorcesterWanderer]

Question, Gully: How much overlap is there between what Gaz is doing and Gegenpress principles? It feels like Wolves play a territorial game in a way, but I don't have enough sophistication tactically to say if it's really related or not.

There are definitely traits there, but people overthink tactics these days. If it works, who cares what the system's called? He could have the team playing Potatopressing for all I care at the moment.

 

[brianm]

There are definitely traits there, but people overthink tactics these days. If it works, who cares what the system's called? He could have the team playing Potatopressing for all I care at the moment.

I dunno, I guess I'm just curious. I enjoy thinking about football a lot more than is likely healthy for me, and it feels like I might learn something here.

 

[WorcesterWanderer]

I dunno, I guess I'm just curious. I enjoy thinking about football a lot more than is likely healthy for me, and it feels like I might learn something here.

Nah, I was joking. I get you. I'm way more into the tactical/mental side of the game these days. I spend hours reading about different managers, their tactics and general footballing philosophies. Bielsa has been someone I've enjoyed studying. It all came from playing Football Manager starting at age 14- I began to get a deeper understanding and appreciation of football. GON is rapidly becoming someone of interest, and though I may be biased, I think "football hipsters" will be catching on soon. If things go right and he stays at Wolves, he could be the next great English manager.

My footballing obsession is at the point where I've looked into taking coaching badges LOL!

 

[SoCal_Wolf]

Is it just me or does Cunha in this pic have a passing resemblance to the late great Taylor Hawkins

View attachment 41104

I always thought that Taylor Hawkins was coaching Aston Villa...

 

[SmiffyWolf]

Not having a go at anyone but I re-read the first page of this thread. How times have changed (random selection):









To be fair, there were one or two more positive contributions, also ...







He's doing alright, ain't he?

Happy to be proven wrong

But I will be interested to visit at the end of next season. As if he isn't backed I could see him leaving but also us dropping down the league rather than going upwards . So there might be a different view on many things if that is the case .

Just my opinion though but he has done a great job so far and long may it continue

 

[gullykular]

Question, Gully: How much overlap is there between what Gaz is doing and Gegenpress principles? It feels like Wolves play a territorial game in a way, but I don't have enough sophistication tactically to say if it's really related or not.

I still think GON is very much horses for courses at the moment. Plus 'Gegenpressing' would be all about retrieving the ball immediately after losing it. We don't go hell for leather like some teams (Liverpool) we tend to pick our moments. You can't really operate like that all the time with Sarabia in the team, perhaps Tommy Doyle at times (reads the game superbly though)

 

[Loojay]

United after GON

 

[Flaneur]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1772710163616534853

 

[Redrockwanderer]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1772710163616534853

Isn’t Mark Ogden a terrible source for transfer goss? Like tier 3? #nothingtoseehere

 

[Rubberball]

Where GoN is really good as a man manager and motivator he's really poor as a tactician.

I just don't think he's a tactical manager, he's more an Ancelotti/ Redknapp type than a Klopp/ Pep type. Not a bad thing but it is at odds with the transfer policy Fosun have at the moment.

I have no doubt he will be a good manager at a top club with top players but he'll always be short of top 10 tactically.

He needs players like Cunha and Neto to be successful and will get the very best out of them in a team but not system sense

But when faced with putting a tactical system in place I don't think he's capable, just not his game

We are where we are but unless Fosun change their direction or GoN suddenly learns how to implement a tactical system on and off the ball in place then this is probably his ceiling.

 

[Muscat]

Can't agree with any of that, he's won games for us tactically this season and is clearly hampered by lack of personnel at the moment.

To suggest we are top 10 because he is just good at motivating players is an insult.

He has made mistakes but has managed less than 60 games and is still learning. The fact he is competing and beating managers like Klopp, Postecoglu, Pochettino etc is remarkable.

 

[Rubberball]

Can't agree with any of that, he's won games for us tactically this season and is clearly hampered by lack of personnel at the moment.

To suggest we are top 10 because he is just good at motivating players is an insult.

He has made mistakes but has managed less than 60 games and is still learning. The fact he is competing and beating managers like Klopp, Postecoglu, Pochettino etc is remarkable.

It wasn't meant as an insult at all. It's just the style of manager he is in my eyes. Nobody is good at everything.

Zidane and Ancelotti would be the best comparisons I can come up with. They rely on getting the best out of their players, not just motivating but their ability too. GoN certainly does that.

But tactical I just don't think that's his game. I guess that's why Utd wanted him as a coach and pair him with a tactical coach.

I'd look at getting a tactical coach in this summer that could really take him to the next level.

 

[Matt]

He’s tactically been great in the games against the better sides, but struggled (as did Nuno) against the lower sides where the onus is on us. I can only really think of Everton at home as the exception there? Once he cracks that we’ll be flying and he’ll be genuinely linked with the top jobs. That is a tough nut to crack though, as we know!

 

[Muscat]

It wasn't meant as an insult at all. It's just the style of manager he is in my eyes. Nobody is good at everything.

Zidane and Ancelotti would be the best comparisons I can come up with. They rely on getting the best out of their players, not just motivating but their ability too. GoN certainly does that.

But tactical I just don't think that's his game. I guess that's why Utd wanted him as a coach and pair him with a tactical coach.

I'd look at getting a tactical coach in this summer that could really take him to the next level.

I just don't see what you're basing "not a good tactical coach" on.

 

[Black Country Wanderer]

I must admit i struggle with some of his decisions
Lemina is not a left sided forward,Traore is better than he thinks,trust Hugo more at left back,Doyle is not a DMF

He spoke after the game about Chiwome starting his first game for us
He said and i quote "ive only met him 4/5 times in training" surely if you intend to start a young lad you give him some intense training sessions with the guys hes playing with?
It was no wonder he looked lost at times and seemingly ignored by some players when in decent positions?

Totally not knocking GON overall,hes done a great job so far,but theres just some details that i think he can do better with at this point

 

[Rubberball]

I just don't see what you're basing "not a good tactical coach" on.

I don't see an implementation of a system off the ball and playing players in positions in his attacking system (which is very rigid) that do not work is the main things I can see.

There are little things like not using Sarabia correctly until Spurs because of tactical inflexibility (he wanted pace on the wing at all costs and said as much). His daft decision to put RAN at LB against Coventry when it was easier to put him up front and Bueno at LB.

I don't think he's at the same level tactically as some at this level and Robins easily out thought him. That's just who he is.

 

[JadeWolf]

O’Neil is very good tactically, he sets the team up really well. Even yesterday with unavailable players he had us getting in behind and causing trouble. He sometimes struggles with changing things up in a game when the opposition get on top but that will come with experience.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

I think the trouble is that he has to pick Doyle, Gomes and Lemina as the options are so limited. Then of those 3 Lemina is the more forward option. I don't understand why he doesn't play more of a 3412 though, Fraser or Chiwome need someone closer to them and Lemina can play more box to box. Still whether O'Neil is a good tactician or not, I'm pretty confident he's better than me!

 

[Golden_Wolf]

Please let's end the Lemina in whatever role he's been in since Neto got his last injury experiment.

Can we not just move RAN into that position & Hugo into the LWB role.

 

[Rubberball]

O’Neil is very good tactically, he sets the team up really well. Even yesterday with unavailable players he had us getting in behind and causing trouble. He sometimes struggles with changing things up in a game when the opposition get on top but that will come with experience.

What do you think he does well tactically Jade?

Genuine question, not looking for an argument.

 

[JadeWolf]

What do you think he does well tactically Jade?

Genuine question, not looking for an argument.

I think he spots how opponents try to create space and sets us up to cut off that route. He identifies who the key danger is for the opposition (not always difficult I know) but works a way to stop them. I think he gets the team organised and in a good shape away from home to set us up for counter attacks. And at Molineux the shape is slightly different so we have more possession higher up the pitch.

 

[brianm]

What does he do well tactically Jade?

He outdoes the opposition manager tactically in most games. How? By nullifying where the opposition want to play without the ball and getting good movements where he wants to play with the ball. In general, the middle of the park.

If he was just average tactically would Wolves be where they are this season on the talent of the players?! Motivation and environment or not...

 

[Muscat]

These are all minor personnel tweaks, I don't think it has anything to do with 'tactics'. He rectified the Bueno/RAN situation quite quickly.

Please let's end the Lemina in whatever role he's been in since Neto got his last injury experiment.

Can we not just move RAN into that position & Hugo into the LWB role.

I think playing your best CM at LW while leaving RAN at LWB is crazy and one thing I would definitely criticise GON for last night. However, I can somewhat see the logic in that they are strong down the right and it's clear he doesn't really trust Bueno (maybe isn't fit) or Doherty to play there.

Still annoyed we didn't give RAN the first 15 minutes of the second half up front though - often he was the deepest of everyone apart from our centre-backs which I couldn't understand at all.

 

[Black Country Wanderer]

These are all minor personnel tweaks, I don't think it has anything to do with 'tactics'. He rectified the Bueno/RAN situation quite quickly.


I think playing your best CM at LW while leaving RAN at LWB is crazy and one thing I would definitely criticise GON for last night. However, I can somewhat see the logic in that they are strong down the right and it's clear he doesn't really trust Bueno (maybe isn't fit) or Doherty to play there.

Still annoyed we didn't give RAN the first 15 minutes of the second half up front though - often he was the deepest of everyone apart from our centre-backs which I couldn't understand at all.

GON said after the game that RAN was tired and below par after the internationals so he he pulled him early,probably why the same for Gomes

 

[goldeneyed]

My main gripe of late is not making AIt Nouri an out an out attacker...him and the returning Cunha can wreak havoc. Lemina is not a 'forward'.

Also our young centre forwards have been getting terrible service and need to be trusted more by team mates who are not picking up on their runs.

Finally Kilman needs replacing as captain with Lemina being the obvious candidate.

Otherwise he is making the best of a ridiculously threadbare squad. But perhaps Traore could be given more game time as he has plenty to offer imv. Lemina and Gomes are being overworked.

 

[Ironfistedmonk]

My main gripe of late is not making AIt Nouri an out an out attacker...him and the returning Cunha can wreak havoc.

Also our young centre forwards have been getting terrible service and need to be trusted more by team mates who are not picking up on their runs.

Finally Kilman needs replacing as captain with Lemina being the obvious candidate.

Otherwise he is making the best of a ridiculously threadbare squad. But perhaps Traore could be given more game time as he has plenty to offer imv. Lemina and Gomes are being overworked.

It would have made sense to start RAN wide left with either Bueno or Doherty at LWB, but he seems to want to squeeze Lemina in out of position which I find odd, it didn't work against Coventry, so I don't know how he thought it would go any better against a stronger side?

 

[JOSWolf]

Please let's end the Lemina in whatever role he's been in since Neto got his last injury experiment.

Can we not just move RAN into that position & Hugo into the LWB role.

Exactly!

 

[Contrarian]

I think he spots how opponents try to create space and sets us up to cut off that route.

Funny, but I think one of his weaknesses is that he doesn't do that! Villa an example of what we've seen in most matches. Early on, we have a lot of possession, but when they broke, they found tons of space behind us. (eg that disallowed goal).

This happens almost every match. We have some decent possession. Then opponents get the ball and stroll past us. It invariably requires some sort of rethink around 20 - 30 mins in, lots of frantic notes being passed around and iPad pointing.

Coventry found plenty of space against us, from start to finish, also requiring a fake stoppage early on to try and prevent it.

 

[Rubberball]

I think he spots how opponents try to create space and sets us up to cut off that route. He identifies who the key danger is for the opposition (not always difficult I know) but works a way to stop them. I think he gets the team organised and in a good shape away from home to set us up for counter attacks. And at Molineux the shape is slightly different so we have more possession higher up the pitch.

I agree with @Contrarian in that he doesn't set us up very well being out of possession.

I haven't seen him spot how opponents set up and close those passing lanes effectively in the defensive thirds yet he I can see an installed and effective press in the attacking third.

I can't agree with him setting up a good shape away from home but agree he does know how to counter at pace.

I've seen us have lots of possession at snails pace at Molineux and also play at top speed to open games up so I can see how he's changed that.

Like a lot of opinions on football I think it's a good thing we don't see everything the same way, just different.

 

[Werewolf of Wombourne]

Surely we have to accept how limited GON’ options are tactically due to what he has available at the moment?

 

[AndyY]

GON said after the game that RAN was tired and below par after the internationals so he he pulled him early,probably why the same for Gomes

And for RAN, it’s also Ramadan, which may have had an impact on his energy levels.

 

[SuperGran]

And for RAN, it’s also Ramadan, which may have had an impact on his energy levels.

Also lemina is too

 

[Wolf316]

And for RAN, it’s also Ramadan, which may have had an impact on his energy levels.

Ran was taking on fluids vs Cov so may well not be observing it.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

Why are we playing Lemina a holding midfielder in attacking midfield

Yet Bouba has played there for Mali more often than not and scored!

Is Bouby not trusted? Not a manager picking his favourites hopefully

 

[lets all have a disco]

Why are we playing Lemina a holding midfielder in attacking midfield

Yet Bouba has played there for Mali more often than not and scored!

Is Bouby not trusted? Not a manager picking his favourites hopefully

Did you see Bouba shot in the home game when he came on in an attacking role ...bouba is as much a defensive midfielder as lemina....he is just going with the experienced player who has 4 goals.....it's not hard to work out....

 

[Perton Wolf]

Lemina playing on the left is bizarre but it's not like we are blessed with options either.

Bellegarde as a False Nine, Lemina left wing.....there's been a few weird tactical decisions but let's be honest, they wouldn't have been made if we had an adequately sized squad.

Still takes some getting over just how **** of a situation we've been left in due to the board's neglect, again.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

Lemina playing on the left is bizarre but it's not like we are blessed with options either.

Bellegarde as a False Nine, Lemina left wing.....there's been a few weird tactical decisions but let's be honest, they wouldn't have been made if we had an adequately sized squad.

Still takes some getting over just how **** of a situation we've been left in due to the board's neglect, again.

Lemina on the wing is as bizarre as Kenny Miller & Carl Cort on the flanks under Hoddle. Some kind of old school thinking by the gaffers here? Bellegarde just doesn’t have the rhythm in his play to be a winger he’s an explosive CM or CAM as they call them these days.

Board neglect saved us 6/9 points so really. It was the right thing even if our season ends on a sour note now. We couldn’t afford anyone in January which is disappointing