Gary O'Neil - tactics

[Eastern Wolf]

Get the tactics right for the players we have and we’ll stay up. They are quite a talented bunch of players but we got call a spade a spade. We will not score enough goals to justify playing expanded football. The base of success for any team is a solid defence. Look at Man City. Their defence is as important as their attack.
Revert to three at the back. Put an extra man in midfield. Use the wing backs for the width and play with two strikers. 3-5-2. We’ll be more solid and still be a goal threat.

 

[oldgoldheart]

Me too. I walked out when the fourth went in. Only done that once before in 60+ years -- last season v Leeds !

I did the same last year. I felt so guilty and dirty but it was so frustrating i gave my tickets to a mate yesterday thank god

 

[Glow69]

I just don't understand how fans with zero experience of working in football, can clearly see the problems Brighton were going to cause us today, but GON can't!

The hype around this bloke is that he is incredibly detailed in everything he does.. so why the hell are we playing a high line against Brightons attack?...

Defence was an utter shambles with no protection from midfield second half..

Yeah must have passed Julens eyes aswell In that 6 nill'a.

 

[wolfslair]

With 10-15 mins of injury time a game, 5 subs and a high press, it is basically ******* stupid to have limited options

Be fair to the poster, they have seen and had to financially juggle annual and above league average price increases to see that.

We are alone in the league for most consecutive price increases too….

All under the guise of gas lighting by Vinny Turpin that we were actually underpaying and that is why we will struggle to kick on. So must pay more to be competitive……

In reality….. every year since before covid:

Massive drop off in on the pitch performances
Terrible transfers
No ground improvements when clearly needed

And to cap it off….. incompetent Jeff in his letter “we must see ourselves as newly promoted”…. So why the increases Jeff? Because it is worse and we are paying more than promotion season in a city like Wolverhampton that isn’t amazingly affluent and great fans are getting priced out….

You don’t know the financial sacrifices some make to continue their season tickets because the financial miscontrolers don’t care about the fans…..

So I understand why they are that upset 100%

 

[Bacon Sandwich]

What the hell went on in this fabled three hour conversation between Hobbs and O'Neil? They must have discussed the players?
"What about Pedro Neto, Gary?"
"Right wing, Mattie-boy. Right wing all day. Wand of a right foot."
"Fair enough. Three year contract do you?"

 

[Ukraine Wolf]

I was delivering aid in Donbas at the weekend when a drunk driver crashed into my van, putting it out of action for 6 weeks or so. It wasn't half as painful as watching that performance though.

If we continue to shop for managers at Kwik Save and refuse to add to our strikers then I really fear for our season.

 

[Bawtry Wolf]

Has a Wolves manager ever has a worse home debut? Can’t think of one.

What was even more concerning was he was just sat in the dug out for most of the 2nd half as his team surrendered. To then come out and talk about how we matched them on xG and weren’t clinical enough is comical. Even Saunders would struggle with that.

Unfortunately the fans know he’s not got the ability and we know the team is short but for some reason there didn’t seem to be any anger focused on Shi and Guo. Yesterday was the perfect opportunity to voice crtitcism unless the ground emptying at 60 minutes was that.

 

[wolfslair]

Has a Wolves manager ever has a worse home debut? Can’t think of one.

What was even more concerning was he was just sat in the dug out for most of the 2nd half as his team surrendered. To then come out and talk about how we matched them on xG and weren’t clinical enough is comical. Even Saunders would struggle with that.

Unfortunately the fans know he’s not got the ability and we know the team is short but for some reason there didn’t seem to be any anger focused on Shi and Guo. Yesterday was the perfect opportunity to voice crtitcism unless the ground emptying at 60 minutes was that.

Any one who uses xg to try and say there is a good performance is a clown!!!!

All that matters is how many times you put the ball in the net and making sure you keep
It out of your own.

Xg never won a game or a league title….. goals scored and goal difference can and do

 

[yateleywolf]

I was surprised he changed the side . I'm not going to have a go at O'Neil after two games. Just hope he learns from it . Defeat was reminiscent of the Leicester City defeat last season when we lost 4 nil.

 

[AndyY]

I thought he was lazy today which was the most disappointing aspect

Lazy? Or knackered after the high energy game at OT 5 days earlier?

 

[goldfish]

Any one who uses xg to try and say there is a good performance is a clown!!!!

All that matters is how many times you put the ball in the net and making sure you keep
It out of your own.

Xg never won a game or a league title….. goals scored and goal difference can and do

This isn't strictly true. In one off games you can use XG to say that aspects of the performance were good, but that you were unlucky in facing clinical opponents (unless your gk let in weak shots) and/or your own finishing didn't match the rest of the performance.

Unless your goalie has had a howler, I think XG against is a more useful stat because that does indicate whether you have just been unlucky against an unusually ruthless opposition. Yesterday was about 2, so with our finishing and XG against we'd expect to lose that 2-1. I think that's right.

However, it's less useful for XG for, for two reasons:

1) Finishing is still part of the performance. You can't separate it out.

2) Finishing is still something you can improve through changing players, buying players or coaching. As manager, O'Neill has responsibility for that (except transfers). It's not some mystical quality separate from the rest of football.

What's relevant for us here is two things:

1) We've regularly outperformed XG against. That we're not is worrying, but was always likely to happen.

2) Our chance creation is improving but our finishing is getting worse.

 

[wolfslair]

This isn't strictly true. In one off games you can use XG to say that aspects of the performance were good, but that you were unlucky in facing clinical opponents (unless your gk let in weak shots) and/or your own finishing didn't match the rest of the performance.

However, where it doesn't work when trotted out repeatedly is:

1) Finishing is still part of the performance. You can't separate it out.

2) Finishing is still something you can improve through changing players, buying players or coaching. As manager, O'Neill has responsibility for that (except transfers). It's not some mystical quality separate from the rest of football.

I get that……

But people hide behind it…… to excuse or hide the fact that they lost!!!

I don’t care if we have three shots and score one!

To create that many and not score isn’t just a positive!! It is also a major sign of concern!!!!!

So it is a double edged sword throwing that stat around like a badge of honour to be proud of.

As it shows you aren’t getting the coaching right to get them finishing or as a club you aren’t signing or starting the right players to finish them.

As Hwang is the best finisher in the squad, yet cannot start? Or didn’t come on early enough…..

if you conceed that many goals, there isn’t luck in it…. That is a joke of a line!!! All 4 goals were avoidable!! If you concede four that isn’t luck!! That is incompetence in tactics, adjustment and defending.

So O’Neil wants to trot that xg stat out….. great, so why did it take so long for our statistical best finisher to come off the bench? As he actually SCORED with a chance. Only makes him look more tactically naive! As if we create but don’t finish you start your best finishers! Not leave on Neto who couldn’t hit a barn door when coming off the right.

Using those stats for yesterday only expose the inept game management of GON

 

[Gasman]

Doctor was speaking to him during the warm up . Not sure he was right today .

Why not bring on Traore then?

 

[TheConcourse]

I get that……

But people hide behind it…… to excuse or hide the fact that they lost!!!

I don’t care if we have three shots and score one!

To create that many and not score isn’t just a positive!! It is also a major sign of concern!!!!!

So it is a double edged sword throwing that stat around like a badge of honour to be proud of.

As it shows you aren’t getting the coaching right to get them finishing or as a club you aren’t signing or starting the right players to finish them.

As Hwang is the best finisher in the squad, yet cannot start? Or didn’t come on early enough…..

if you conceed that many goals, there isn’t luck in it…. That is a joke of a line!!! All 4 goals were avoidable!! If you concede four that isn’t luck!! That is incompetence in tactics, adjustment and defending.

So O’Neil wants to trot that xg stat out….. great, so why did it take so long for our statistical best finisher to come off the bench? As he actually SCORED with a chance. Only makes him look more tactically naive! As if we create but don’t finish you start your best finishers! Not leave on Neto who couldn’t hit a barn door when coming off the right.

Using those stats for yesterday only expose the inept game management of GON

Struggling to disagree. I also pointed towards xG as a signal that things are moving in the right direction, but I’m also really trying to give GON the benefit of the doubt after absolutely slating the decision to hire him.

In hindsight, De Zerbi told his team that our line is high and the space is over the top. Exploited immediately.

 

[wolfslair]

Struggling to disagree. I also pointed towards xG as a signal that things are moving in the right direction, but I’m also really trying to give GON the benefit of the doubt after absolutely slating the decision to hire him.

In hindsight, De Zerbi told his team that our line is high and the space is over the top. Exploited immediately.

And what did he do to correct that?

Not like they didn’t exploit the space left by nelson with great regularity in the first half……

He didn’t correct that either. 3rd goal I think it is, how was Nelson so far upfield when he doesn’t sprint back against a team who attack with pace and dynamic movement?

He played into their hands and was too naive and inexperienced to see it fix it…..

 

[MattH]

And what did he do to correct that?

Not like they didn’t exploit the space left by nelson with great regularity in the first half……

He didn’t correct that either. 3rd goal I think it is, how was Nelson so far upfield when he doesn’t sprint back against a team who attack with pace and dynamic movement?

He played into their hands and was too naive and inexperienced to see it fix it…..

GON needs an assistant who's a tactical specialist. Perhaps that was the role the fella from West Ham was going to fill. Either way it needs sorting ASAP as Gary is going to have rings run round him week after week otherwise.

 

[wolfslair]

GON needs an assistant who's a tactical specialist. Perhaps that was the role the fella from West Ham was going to fill. Either way it needs sorting ASAP as Gary is going to have rings run round him week after week otherwise.

But a good manager is paid the big bucks to able to do this and have the ability on his own.

His Bournemouth stint showed he isn’t close to premiership standard, he needed to go away and get a championship
Job and learn his trade and also what kind of manager he is and his philosophy at the top Level. You can’t do that in the short time he has been the main guy.

Also if he was so good, why didn’t he get any of the vacant championship jobs??? As he can’t have seriously thought he was good enough for the prem on his Bournemouth stint? If he did he has Frank lampard levels of delusion in his coaching abilities.

We are literally employing the work experience boy to do the job of a top class manager.

 

[Corporate Wolf]

Struggling to disagree. I also pointed towards xG as a signal that things are moving in the right direction, but I’m also really trying to give GON the benefit of the doubt after absolutely slating the decision to hire him.

In hindsight, De Zerbi told his team that our line is high and the space is over the top. Exploited immediately.

Spot on. And that’s the difference. Almost a schoolboy error.

IMHO, I’m at a loss as to why he told them to push a higher line at halftime (ok I’m guessing that’s what happened) We could have easily gone in at half time 1-1. Fabio should be burying 1on1s and RANs effort is best removed from the highlights reel.

 

[Metal Wolf89]

Yeah must have passed Julens eyes aswell In that 6 nill'a.

Very true!

 

[WickedWolfie]

I was delivering aid in Donbas at the weekend when a drunk driver crashed into my van, putting it out of action for 6 weeks or so. It wasn't half as painful as watching that performance though.

If we continue to shop for managers at Kwik Save and refuse to add to our strikers then I really fear for our season.

Hope that you are ok

 

[Contrarian]

This isn't strictly true. In one off games you can use XG to say that aspects of the performance were good, but that you were unlucky in facing clinical opponents (unless your gk let in weak shots) and/or your own finishing didn't match the rest of the performance.

Unless your goalie has had a howler, I think XG against is a more useful stat because that does indicate whether you have just been unlucky against an unusually ruthless opposition. Yesterday was about 2, so with our finishing and XG against we'd expect to lose that 2-1. I think that's right.

However, it's less useful for XG for, for two reasons:

1) Finishing is still part of the performance. You can't separate it out.

2) Finishing is still something you can improve through changing players, buying players or coaching. As manager, O'Neill has responsibility for that (except transfers). It's not some mystical quality separate from the rest of football.

What's relevant for us here is two things:

1) We've regularly outperformed XG against. That we're not is worrying, but was always likely to happen.

2) Our chance creation is improving but our finishing is getting worse.

XG is better than shots on target or possession in assessing a game. It is useful at suggesting when teams are playing well but not getting results. Though then it's a judgement call as to whether it's just bad luck or something else. Similarly, teams with low XG who pick up a couple of wins, often then start to get bad results.

Though yesterdays matches highlighted one flaw with XG. In our match, 2 of our best chances were in that goal mouth scramble around the 60th minute. I think the ball hits the crossbar , bounces out, then is headed back over the bar. That counted as 2 high XG incidents, something like 0.4 each. But if the first goes in, the second wouldn't have happened. The 2 chances together are nearly 1 XG, yet only 1 could have been a goal, if that makes sense.

The Liverpool penalty is an even clearer example of this. Salah missed the penalty, with penalties being XG around 0.7. Then scored the rebound, which counts as another high XG. So the XG ended up over 1 goal! If the penalty is scored, then Salah wouldn't have had the chance to boost XG by having an easy rebound to score.

Or as an extreme example. If a poor forward has an open goal and hits the ball against the post, then hits the rebound against the post, and then shoots wide. The XG is going to be 3. Yet that team may have spent 89 minutes in their own half and this was the only chance they had. They were only ever going to score 1 goal, yet the XG makes them appear better than they are.

Hope this makes sense ... either way, these multiple chances in the same incident distort XG and make it higher than it really should be. This happened to both us and Liverpool yesterday.

 

[Wonder Boyo]

Stumbled into this account on Twitter. Not sure if it's been talked about somewhere on the Mix previously as I haven't been on here much recently. No idea how legit he is but seems to be respected looking at some of the figures who follow him and the amount of followers. Interesting point about GON's Wolves (although we're not sure where we are in the transition from Lopetegui to GON). Problem is we're still losing players.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1694286374294233294

https://twitter.com/x/status/1694340859536212222

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

XG is better than shots on target or possession in assessing a game. It is useful at suggesting when teams are playing well but not getting results. Though then it's a judgement call as to whether it's just bad luck or something else. Similarly, teams with low XG who pick up a couple of wins, often then start to get bad results.

Though yesterdays matches highlighted one flaw with XG. In our match, 2 of our best chances were in that goal mouth scramble around the 60th minute. I think the ball hits the crossbar , bounces out, then is headed back over the bar. That counted as 2 high XG incidents, something like 0.4 each. But if the first goes in, the second wouldn't have happened. The 2 chances together are nearly 1 XG, yet only 1 could have been a goal, if that makes sense.

The Liverpool penalty is an even clearer example of this. Salah missed the penalty, with penalties being XG around 0.7. Then scored the rebound, which counts as another high XG. So the XG ended up over 1 goal! If the penalty is scored, then Salah wouldn't have had the chance to boost XG by having an easy rebound to score.

Or as an extreme example. If a poor forward has an open goal and hits the ball against the post, then hits the rebound against the post, and then shoots wide. The XG is going to be 3. Yet that team may have spent 89 minutes in their own half and this was the only chance they had. They were only ever going to score 1 goal, yet the XG makes them appear better than they are.

Hope this makes sense ... either way, these multiple chances in the same incident distort XG and make it higher than it really should be. This happened to both us and Liverpool yesterday.

All of this, and much more too!
Just in case anyone has forgotten, football is about actually scoring, so actually taking the chances is a vital part of the game. Several media types after Brighton seemed to think a high xG meant actually scoring would inevitably follow, when the difference between xG and G often continues, Everton scored 15 below their xG last season and Spurs 12 above - welcome to the world where you need an actual striker to win football matches. It also ignores the inevitable effects of being behind in games. How significant was it that we to get a couple of close range scrambles when we were 4 down? So as you say, better than shots or shots on target etc, but not exactly 'we were robbed because we won on xG!'.

 

[Perton Wolf]

Stumbled into this account on Twitter. Not sure if it's been talked about somewhere on the Mix previously as I haven't been on here much recently. No idea how legit he is but seems to be respected looking at some of the figures who follow him and the amount of followers. Interesting point about GON's Wolves (although we're not sure where we are in the transition from Lopetegui to GON). Problem is we're still losing players.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1694286374294233294

https://twitter.com/x/status/1694340859536212222

GON has done **** all, he's merely carried on what Lop built in preseason as we seen in fixtures such as the Rennes game.

It's very much going to be a case of what could have been if he was adequately backed.

 

[Wonder Boyo]

GON has done **** all, he's merely carried on what Lop built in preseason as we seen in fixtures such as the Rennes game.

It's very much going to be a case of what could have been if he was adequately backed.

Agree to an extent but time will tell. In our early training camp friendlies we were quite defensive and compact but looked solid, in the Celtic friendly we were poor but improved as it went on. Luton, again compact and looked solid with a bit more flare but relatively little goal threat, but things really changed against Rennes when we were great.

Will be interesting to see how we continue with tactics and game plan. I was no fan of replacing Lopetegui with GON but I guess it's going to be difficult to judge GON going forward as we have a much smaller squad than last season and we are still losing players. I'm no tactical genius, so I rely on others more skilled and informed in that area than me. Although you say GON "has done **** all" you have no real idea or insight into training and conversations to know if that's true. You might well be right. Time will tell. We just have looked very different in our first two league games in comparison to last season.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

Playing a high press in a 442 with Dawson at CH is suicidal. The idea that 'their XI is optimally suited to this style' is hilarious.

 

[Oh When the Wolves]

Playing a high press in a 442 with Dawson at CH is suicidal. The idea that 'their XI is optimally suited to this style' is hilarious.

We have to stick with it and see how we get on against poor opposition

 

[gullykular]

Had a deeper look at GO'N's approach vs Brighton and where things fell down for us. Not something I expect to see collapse to the extent it did vs Brighton but good teams will pull you apart

 

[Bill McCai]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1694620452780458274

 

[sillytuna]

The idea that gon changed us for utd is mad. He'd been here a couple of days and the only backroom team were wolves regular coaches. We just continued what we had been doing.

The first game he had input into was brighton tho even that could only really be a continuation due to lack if training time.

Everton, palace and the cup match will tell us more about him.

 

[DanishWolf]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1694620452780458274

Why does he looks like one of the hostages in one of those Al Qaeda videos?

"We are being treated very wel......"

 

[Direwolf]

GO Masterclass I believe.

 

[Bryce]

Needs to be more positive with his substitutions but he got it right in the end today.
Unlucky v Man U and lucky today

 

[DasWolf]

GO Masterclass I believe.

"Right lads, we just need to rely on the other team being so bad that it remains 0-0 instead of them being 4-0 or 5-0 up, and then we'll go for the sneaky goal at the end of the game"

 

[wolfslair]

GO Masterclass I believe.

Eh????

To be outplayed, made substitutes far too late and with Fabio take off the striker actually getting chances to replace with sarabia?

Everton are shocking with headers and crosses, it was the talk of the media build up too, so why did he leave it soooooo late to bring on the lone big man?

for 90 mins our tactics were poor, but to score a smash and grab is great!

Score papers over some chasm sized cracks!!

 

[wolfslair]

"Right lads, we just need to rely on the other team being so bad that it remains 0-0 instead of them being 4-0 or 5-0 up, and then we'll go for the sneaky goal at the end of the game"

Rope-a-dope lol

 

[JayStringer]

I will always back a Wolves manager. And the players worked damn hard today. But IMO the more the sample grows, the more it seems clear the tactical positives and fluid football of the United game were a Lopetegui holdover. Brighton and today is more frantic, a lot less control of the ball, more play-and-hope. That can be exciting, no question, but it can also relegate a team in the modern EPL.

 

[Bill S Preston Esq.]

Eh????

To be outplayed, made substitutes far too late and with Fabio take off the striker actually getting chances to replace with sarabia?

Everton are shocking with headers and crosses, it was the talk of the media build up too, so why did he leave it soooooo late to bring on the lone big man?

for 90 mins our tactics were poor, but to score a smash and grab is great!

Score papers over some chasm sized cracks!!

We're gonna be bottom half, there's another five or six teams with chasm sized cracks though. I'd rather play badly and win than play well and lose.

United will probably qualify for Europe by winning ugly, let's hope it keeps us up.

 

[DanishWolf]

I will always back a Wolves manager. And the players worked damn hard today. But IMO the more the sample grows, the more it seems clear the tactical positives and fluid football of the United game were a Lopetegui holdover. Brighton and today is more frantic, a lot less control of the ball, more play-and-hope. That can be exciting, no question, but it can also relegate a team in the modern EPL.

I agree completely, but in fairness we looked much the same, last time we played Everton away...
Hopefully GON has more in his locker, than what we've seen so far. There's no previous evidence from his career to suggest it, but I cling on to the tiny hope that there is...

 

[JayStringer]

I agree completely, but in fairness we looked much the same, last time we played Everton away...
Hopefully GON has more in his locker, than what we've seen so far. There's no previous evidence from his career to suggest it, but I cling on to the tiny hope that there is...

Fair point re the last time we played them. Like you, I cling to the hope. I'm rooting for him to convince me.