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Game of Thrones [SPOILERS]

Ginger Chimp

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... like the woman and child who are locked out from the city...but somehow find their way in and then form an emotional bond with Arya ... .
Much of what you say resonates with me but, for accuracy, the mother and child were locked out of the Red Keep not the City. So, when Arya leaves the Keep and goes back into the City streets that’s where they “meet up” again.
 

ricki herberts moustache

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Much of what you say resonates with me but, for accuracy, the mother and child were locked out of the Red Keep not the City. So, when Arya leaves the Keep and goes back into the City streets that’s where they “meet up” again.

ah ha so it was the red keep: thanks for clarifying that. I must admit I'm not 100% familiar with the layout of the various places on GOT's

But what is with Arya riding off on a white horse that has somehow survived the apocalypse?
 

Ginger Chimp

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ah ha so it was the red keep: thanks for clarifying that. I must admit I'm not 100% familiar with the layout of the various places on GOT's

But what is with Arya riding off on a white horse that has somehow survived the apocalypse?
Multiple on line theories ... all of which will probably be *******s.
 

tamwolf

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If that's a "real horse" and not a dream I will be wondering if the GOT writers are just taking the **** now

Unless the horse was brought to her by Bran warging, as she plays a big part in events he has foreseen.

Surely Bran has got to play a big part in the final episode. Such a waste of the character if he does nothing and we find out nothing about him.
 

ricki herberts moustache

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Unless the horse was brought to her by Bran warging, as she plays a big part in events he has foreseen.

Surely Bran has got to play a big part in the final episode. Such a waste of the character if he does nothing and we find out nothing about him.


I think he will play a big part but it seems to me that Arya will be the one who takes the Iron Throne. Thats where I would put my money anyhow
 

Ewok vs Wolf

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Arya's dead, thats what the white horse stuff is all about. Just my theory.
Arya is 100% alive
The white horse can have all sorts of meanings, maybe it is hope, death. Dany was given a white horse, Ned had one.
 

justanotherwolf

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Imo "Death rides a pale horse" is such a well known phrase that it must mean something (though this season you can't rule out the meaning being "oh, white horse on black ash would look nice!")

My thought is it symbolises that Arya is death to Dany, not that Arya is dead herself, but we don't have long to find out...
 

tamwolf

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Ah, that old chestnut. Yes, it's a fantasy dragon... that lives in a world where the laws of physics still apply.

Aren't the dragons born of magic though, as they are born in the fire that contained the priestess Mirri Maz Duur? I think that's the theory of why they are so powerful and also how the dragon the Night King used managed to break through the wall which supposedly had spells woven into the ice cracks and required more than just brute force to bring it down.

Isn't dragon's fire required to forge Valerian steel too, which implies it has some sort of magical or additional properties. Although I general think that if you are worrying about the laws of physics with a dragon, you are probably overthinking it.

I am sceptical about the Scorpion Crossbow though and the power that seems to generate. Would like to see a blueprint or drawing.
 
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Aren't the dragons born of magic though, as they are born in the fire that contained the priestess Mirri Maz Duur? I think that's the theory of why they are so powerful and also how the dragon the Night King used managed to break through the wall which supposedly had spells woven into the ice cracks and required more than just brute force to bring it down.

Isn't dragon's fire required to forge Valerian steel too, which implies it has some sort of magical or additional properties. Although I general think that if you are worrying about the laws of physics with a dragon, you are probably overthinking it.
It certainly may be that Dragons are magical with abilities beyond the obvious, but it boils down to basic story telling. Lazy writing that removes plot obstacles, such as a heavily defended walled city, is often excused by fanboys who say, "It's a fantasy. They can do anything they want, and it doesn't have to be justified because it's a fantasy".

They don't get that audiences will suspend their disbelief- if you explain the exceptions to the rules of mundane life early on. We all understand that the X-Men have impossible abilities because of the plot device that is the mutant gene, so we suspend our disbelief when we see Magneto flying around the place, bending metal to his will. If these dragons have special abilities that similarly stretch the laws of physics to breaking point, like generating enough concussive force from their lungs that they can knock over a 3m thick, 25m high masonry wall, we should be made aware before it happens. Martin wrote a battle where dragonfire melted stone walls, but said nothing about blasting them apart as far as I know.
-That may seem pedantic, but it's something that does stick out on a subconscious level to many people. It didn't require any particular thought or overthought on my part, I just remarked at the time that they might as well have not bothered with the ground force because the dragon was so absurdly overpowered that their presence was moot. It was from the same Michael Bay school of writing that has blighted this season: spectacle before logic.

I don't recall exactly how it happened, but I thought with the ice wall, the dragon used its breath to melt the ice so that it would collapse under it's weight. If the dragon used magical breath to break a seal on the ice wall, that's fine, but the ramparts of King's Landing were just plain old stone walls. It would seem then that regular brute force was used to level most of the city, which is an unearned plot convenience.
 
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quirky_birky

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I would imagine that, according to the laws of physics, those dragons shouldn't even be able to fly*. But, in the immortal words of Paul Daniels, "that's magic'.

* I think they said the same about the humble bumblebee. Maybe they're magic too.
 

tamwolf

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It certainly may be that Dragons are magical with abilities beyond the obvious, but it boils down to basic story telling. Lazy writing that removes plot obstacles, such as a heavily defended walled city, is often excused by fanboys who say, "It's a fantasy. They can do anything they want, and it doesn't have to be justified because it's a fantasy".

They don't get that audiences will suspend their disbelief- if you explain the exceptions to the rules of mundane life early on. We all understand that the X-Men have impossible abilities because of the plot device that is the mutant gene, so we suspend our disbelief when we see Magneto flying around the place, bending metal to his will. If these dragons have special abilities that similarly stretch the laws of physics to breaking point, like generating enough concussive force from their lungs that they can knock over a 3m thick, 25m high masonry wall, we should be made aware before it happens. Martin wrote a battle where dragonfire melted stone walls, but said nothing about blasting them apart as far as I know.
-That may seem pedantic, but it's something that does stick out on a subconscious level to many people. It didn't require any particular thought or overthought on my part, I just remarked at the time that they might as well have not bothered with the ground force because the dragon was so absurdly overpowered that their presence was moot. It was from the same Michael Bay school of writing that has blighted this season: spectacle before logic.

I don't recall exactly how it happened, but I thought with the ice wall, the dragon used its breath to melt the ice so that it would collapse under it's weight. If the dragon used magical breath to break a seal on the ice wall, that's fine, but the ramparts of King's Landing were just plain old stone walls. It would seem then that regular brute force was used to level most of the city, which is an unearned plot convenience.

Well surely if you are going to question the 'logic' and physics behind the dragon's breath you would need to have more understanding of how it works. You would have to assume that there is some sort of exothermic reaction between chemicals which causes the flames I guess. What sort of distances are the dragons flame throwing? What pressure and air velocity would need to be required in order for a dragon to be able to fire concentrated flames over this distance? Must be quite high also to stop it burning itself.

There is also the assumption that it is solely the concussive force of the dragon's breath which is causing walls to crumble which might not be fully true. As you have previously stated, historically in the Game Of Thrones world, dragons did manage to melt stone castles at Harrenhal (I think they mention this in the TV series as well as the books). The majority of castles in the UK are probably made of sandstone (melting point of 1200⁰C) or granite (I think this is over 2000⁰C). So that gives you some idea of the temperature of dragons fire, assuming Harrenhal was made of one of those types of rock.

The Red Keep could be made of Sandstone, hence the name maybe? Bit of an assumption (possible incorrect) but that is a layered rock if so. Stones are known to explode if given rapid increases of temperature, as the water will turn to steam creating pressure; of which something like sandstone or even limestone would be more susceptible due to its layered nature. Given the temperature of dragon's fire we could definitely see enough of a rapid evaporation of water within the rocks to cause an explosion.

If the stones were to explode, usually you would see an even spread of fragments, rather than them appearing to go with the direction of the force. However, given the pressure and air velocity that I think would be needed to maintain a concentrated flame over the distances the dragon does, the force of this could cause airborne fragments to divert in the direction of the dragons breath, giving the appearance of the explosions being cause by a concussive force; particularly given the lack of camera angles you are given to see the explosion.

So there is a very basic (and possibly complete nonsense) explanation of how it could have worked.
 
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Well surely if you are going to question the 'logic' and physic behind the dragon's breath you would need to have more understanding of how it works. You would have to assume that there is some sort of exothermic reaction between chemicals which causes the flames I guess. What sort of distances are the dragons flame throwing? What pressure and air velocity would need to be required in order for a dragon to be able to fire concentrated flames over this distance? Must be quite high also to stop it burning itself.

There is also the assumption that it is solely the concussive force of the dragon's breath which is causing walls to crumble which might not be fully true. As you have previously stated, historically in the Game Of Thrones world, dragons did manage to melt stone castles at Harrenhal (I think they mention this in the TV series as well as the books). The majority of castles in the UK are probably made of sandstone (melting point of 1200⁰C) or granite (I think this is over 2000⁰C). So that gives you some idea of the temperature of dragons fire, assuming Harrenhal was made of one of those types of rock.

The Red Keep could be made of Sandstone, hence the name maybe? Bit of an assumption (possible incorrect) but that is a layered rock if so. Stones are known to explode if given rapid increases of temperature, as the water will turn to steam creating pressure; of which something like sandstone or even limestone would be more susceptible due to its layered nature. Given the temperature of dragon's fire we could definitely see enough of a rapid evaporation of water within the rocks to cause an explosion.

If the stones were to explode, usually you would see an even spread of fragments, rather than them appearing to go with the direction of the force. However, given the pressure and air velocity that I think would be needed to maintain a concentrated flame over the distances the dragon does, the force of this could cause airborne fragments to divert in the direction of the dragons breath, giving the appearance of the explosions being cause by a concussive force; particularly given the lack of angles you are given

So there is a very basic (and possible complete nonsense) explanation of how it could have worked.
It's an admirable length you've gone to explain it from a physics perspective, but I don't think it rings true when you watch the scene back (2:48-2:53 especially). The stone topples violently, instantly and entirely in the direction of impact, as though demolished by an enormous wrecking ball or a rocket. While admittedly only a layman, I cannot buy that the rapid boiling of water traces within the stone would create this particular effect. My understanding with Harranhal is that it has the appearance of a half-melted candle, with volcanic-like magma on the ground. That's not what's happening here.

 
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I would imagine that, according to the laws of physics, those dragons shouldn't even be able to fly*. But, in the immortal words of Paul Daniels, "that's magic'.

* I think they said the same about the humble bumblebee. Maybe they're magic too.
It's certainly probable that a creature that large couldn't fly. They say the largest Pterodactyls couldn't (but that was more to do with the small size of their muscles). Which feeds into my point about suspension of disbelief. Dragons go back thousands of years into our collective cultural consciousness. The suspension of disbelief is inbuilt. They have to be able to fly, it's not negotiable, lest they be just giant lizards.

This pterodactyl was so big it couldn't fly, scientist claims
 
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Leominster_Wolf

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STOP. STOP.

You’re ruining things.

<sobs>



(Not really. Some impressive ****e being spouted, though.;))
I was chuckling reading these threads and the time that has been put in to them. but came to the following conclusions;
Dead coming back to life to serve the night King - ok
Three eyed Raven seeing the past and controlling things - all ok
Sexy blonde bird having a kip in the fire with her favourite love eggs and walking out with dragons - new Ann summers line apparently, so definitely ok with this
Faceless assassins using dead people's faces as disguise - still good here
John snow being resurrected - all still good
Ancient witch maintaining a cracking pair of tits with a necklace - how else would you do it?
Dead bodyguards protecting the queen - doesn't every monarch?

But dragons destroying castles? Don't be so bloody ridiculous, who could believe that! o_O:D
 

Ginger Chimp

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I was chuckling reading these threads and the time that has been put in to them. but came to the following conclusions;
Dead coming back to life to serve the night King - ok
Three eyed Raven seeing the past and controlling things - all ok
Sexy blonde bird having a kip in the fire with her favourite love eggs and walking out with dragons - new Ann summers line apparently, so definitely ok with this
Faceless assassins using dead people's faces as disguise - still good here
John snow being resurrected - all still good
Ancient witch maintaining a cracking pair of tits with a necklace - how else would you do it?
Dead bodyguards protecting the queen - doesn't every monarch?

But dragons destroying castles? Don't be so bloody ridiculous, who could believe that! o_O:D
FFS. PMSL.
 

quirky_birky

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a big bad wolf can blow a house down, so why is that ridiculous?

Only one of straw or sticks though. A house of bricks (or sandstone or granite) is another matter. It might be different if it had Coldseal windows. :D
 

tamwolf

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Only one of straw or sticks though. A house of bricks (or sandstone or granite) is another matter. It might be different if it had Coldseal windows. :D

Well the bricks would most likely be composed of clay. Clay bricks have a much higher density than sandstone and would therefore be a different proposition for the wolf. This puts sandstone in a grey area, somewhere in the middle of the wolf’s known abilities.

If it were possible you would have thought Jon would take Ghost with him. Although, given Jon’s incredibly poor battle tactics this season, I doubt the idea ever crossed Jon’s mind.
 
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SingYourHeartsOut

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Surely the walls explode due to thermal expansion in the same way the a glass cracks when you pour boiling water in?

Arya to kill Daenerys and be eaten by the dragon and leave Jon to sit miserably on the Iron Throne is my bet.
 

Ewok vs Wolf

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Surely the walls explode due to thermal expansion in the same way the a glass cracks when you pour boiling water in?

Arya to kill Daenerys and be eaten by the dragon and leave Jon to sit miserably on the Iron Throne is my bet.
I would be surprised if Arya is the one to kill the NK and Daenerys. I think it will be Jon who kills her. I'd like to see Sam come down and give it to her though
 

Leominster_Wolf

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a big bad wolf can blow a house down, so why is that ridiculous?
I think that would depend on a few factors;
Forced vital capacity - the max amount of air you can forcibly exhale from lungs after fully inhaling. In humans it is about 80% of full lung capacity - typically 3.8 litre.
We would also have to consider - forced expiratory volume, which is the amount of air that can be exhaled with force in 1 second
Finally would probably have to factor in forced expiratory flow - the speed of the air coming out of the lung during the middle part of a forced expiration.

In summary - I think they made it up :rolleyes:
 

Boss Hogg

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Well as endings go I thought that was pretty lame - it has “sequel opportunities” written all over it
 

BlahBlah

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Well as endings go I thought that was pretty lame - it has “sequel opportunities” written all over it

Don't know about sequels, but they've wrapped about four spin offs in there...North, South, East and West!
 

Titch

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Well as endings go I thought that was pretty lame - it has “sequel opportunities” written all over it
Agree, I thought it had been a great 5 episodes but the final one was a disappointment for me.
 
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Seems I was right about the insider betting... All hail king Bran..
 
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