Fosun's Gamble

[goldfish]

If Fosun don't have the cash or aren't willing to invest in the club, then trying to sell the club is the right thing to do. It seems very likely that this is what's happening, and it's going to mean short term pain.

For the club to be an attractive prospect for a buyer, it should be:

1. Not saddled with debt
2. In a good place for FFP going forwards
3. Low wage bill, with players who would still achieve decent money if sold
4. Away from relegation danger

In order to meet 1, 2 and 3, Fosun should sell without investing. But that endangers 4. The trick for Fosun, if they are trying to sell, is to find the right balance. So if they are selling, we can expect Nunes and Semedo to be sold, with a couple of players of the Brownhill ilk to come in. They need a squad good enough not just to avoid relegation but to be clear of the relegation threat: that uncertainty will put off/delay buyers.

I suspect they didn't sell Kilman because finding a homegrown replacement of sufficient quality would have been very very difficult.

My hunch is that this is what's happening. It isn't asset stripping, and is actually the right thing to do for the long-term future of the club, but it's hugely risky. If the club's not been sold by Jan and we're at risk of relegation I'd expect spend then.

 

[VancouverWolf]

If Fosun do or do not want to sell, they’ll take their own council and not from a disembodied post from a footy forum.

We can all post or start threads til we’re blue in the face but nothing we say will make any difference.

Asking , ( or using a lot of profanity), whether. Shi should go or whether Fosun should sell is like a tiny ant bite to an elephant.
In 2021, their assets were $1.26B and they have over 70,000 employees.
You don’t get to be that big and profitable by making many mistakes.

For better or worse, we fans can only watch and see what the future brings. Complaining till the cows come home will only make you feel more frustrated and miserable.

 

[Timberwolf]

If Fosun don't have the cash or aren't willing to invest in the club, then trying to sell the club is the right thing to do. It seems very likely that this is what's happening, and it's going to mean short term pain….

…and you base this ‘likelihood’ on what evidence exactly?

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

If Fosun do or do not want to sell, they’ll take their own council and not from a disembodied post from a footy forum.

We can all post or start threads til we’re blue in the face but nothing we say will make any difference.

Asking , ( or using a lot of profanity), whether. Shi should go or whether Fosun should sell is like a tiny ant bite to an elephant.
In 2021, their assets were $1.26B and they have over 70,000 employees.
You don’t get to be that big and profitable by making many mistakes.

For better or worse, we fans can only watch and see what the future brings. Complaining till the cows come home will only make you feel more frustrated and miserable.

And there was @goldfish thinking Guo was scouring the Mix for business strategy.

 

[goldeneyed]

Guo's pathetic gesture of wearing a Wolves cap summed up the tokenism of their ownership. That overwhelming defeat on the back of Loptegui's departure might just have convinced him that Wolves is too expensive a project to resuscitate. Hence for the first time I also am beginning to believe that a sale may be on the cards. But then you have to find a buyer.....which won't be easy. There are only so many Saudi/UAE 'princes' with more cash than common sense.

 

[StaffordWolf]

Guo's pathetic gesture of wearing a Wolves cap summed up the tokenism of their ownership. That overwhelming defeat on the back of Loptegui's departure might just have convinced him that Wolves is too expensive a project to resuscitate. Hence for the first time I also am beginning to believe that a sale may be on the cards. But then you have to find a buyer.....which won't be easy. There are only so many Saudi/UAE 'princes' with more cash than common sense.

Bet all that wolves clobber he had on is already at the local landfill.

 

[Halesowen wwfc]

Guo's pathetic gesture of wearing a Wolves cap summed up the tokenism of their ownership. That overwhelming defeat on the back of Loptegui's departure might just have convinced him that Wolves is too expensive a project to resuscitate. Hence for the first time I also am beginning to believe that a sale may be on the cards. But then you have to find a buyer.....which won't be easy. There are only so many Saudi/UAE 'princes' with more cash than common sense.

Based on twitter rumours going full steam now around a sale, he was probably here to sign on the dotted line and grabbed some free gear out of the club shop on his way out while he still could

 

[Sussex Wolf]

If Fosun do or do not want to sell, they’ll take their own council and not from a disembodied post from a footy forum.

We can all post or start threads til we’re blue in the face but nothing we say will make any difference.

Asking , ( or using a lot of profanity), whether. Shi should go or whether Fosun should sell is like a tiny ant bite to an elephant.
In 2021, their assets were $1.26B and they have over 70,000 employees.
You don’t get to be that big and profitable by making many mistakes.

For better or worse, we fans can only watch and see what the future brings. Complaining till the cows come home will only make you feel more frustrated and miserable.

**** me, what a disrespectful reply to a considered and balanced post. It’s a damn site more considered than some of the drivel you’ve posted.

 

[VancouverWolf]

**** me, what a disrespectful reply to a considered and balanced post. It’s a damn site more considered than some of the drivel you’ve posted.

back up the truck a moment……I had no intention of disrespect……..NONE.

 

[Frank Lincoln]

And there was @goldfish thinking Guo was scouring the Mix for business strategy.

He does, but under the pseudonym @Norman Bell

 

[Rhoswolf]

**** me, what a disrespectful reply to a considered and balanced post. It’s a damn site more considered than some of the drivel you’ve posted.

Best stick him and his countryman on ignore, not sure if WUMs or just naive but best ignored

 

[Wolf316]

**** me, what a disrespectful reply to a considered and balanced post. It’s a damn site more considered than some of the drivel you’ve posted.

Maybe this will help him?

Forum

A meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged.
"we hope these pages act as a forum for debate"

• a website or web page where users can post comments about a particular issue or topic and reply to other users' postings.

 

[surreywolf]

August 3rd: "First of all, Fosun remains committed to Wolves and has never had any plans to sell the club. The club is a long-term project and an important one for Fosun." Jeff Shi: Letter to supporters

I still struggle to accept they would be so openly misleading. Sorry but I'm yet to see the clear evidence they are selling up.

 

[WasStefan]

August 3rd: "First of all, Fosun remains committed to Wolves and has never had any plans to sell the club. The club is a long-term project and an important one for Fosun." Jeff Shi: Letter to supporters

I still struggle to accept they would be so openly misleading. Sorry but I'm yet to see the clear evidence they are selling up.

They aren’t.

It’s pure incompetence

 

[goldfish]

If Fosun do or do not want to sell, they’ll take their own council and not from a disembodied post from a footy forum.

We can all post or start threads til we’re blue in the face but nothing we say will make any difference.

Asking , ( or using a lot of profanity), whether. Shi should go or whether Fosun should sell is like a tiny ant bite to an elephant.
In 2021, their assets were $1.26B and they have over 70,000 employees.
You don’t get to be that big and profitable by making many mistakes.

For better or worse, we fans can only watch and see what the future brings. Complaining till the cows come home will only make you feel more frustrated and miserable.

I'm not sure who this is directed at, because this thread isn't giving Fosun advice, using profanity or complaining. It's an attempt to start a dialogue to understand Fosun's current management of the club.

 

[Wolf316]

August 3rd: "First of all, Fosun remains committed to Wolves and has never had any plans to sell the club. The club is a long-term project and an important one for Fosun." Jeff Shi: Letter to supporters

I still struggle to accept they would be so openly misleading. Sorry but I'm yet to see the clear evidence they are selling up.

Do you think they’ll give a **** once we’re sold? Oh and I wouldn’t trust Pinocchio Shi as far as I could throw him.

 

[goldfish]

…and you base this ‘likelihood’ on what evidence exactly?

It's a best guess based on what they're currently doing, and what we know about their financial position. The other option so far as I can see is that they're selling players to repay loans to themselves to help with their cashflow, but that doesn't really make sense for the long term as far as I can see.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

August 3rd: "First of all, Fosun remains committed to Wolves and has never had any plans to sell the club. The club is a long-term project and an important one for Fosun." Jeff Shi: Letter to supporters

I still struggle to accept they would be so openly misleading. Sorry but I'm yet to see the clear evidence they are selling up.

In the same letter

Our head coach has undoubtedly done an excellent job since joining us last November. We hired him and his team at a very difficult moment and without a doubt they succeeded in the aims we set for them. Now, together with the players and all support staff, they are working hard again to prepare for the upcoming campaign.

Even though he'd already told them he was going. Literally true of course, just like when there's an election and they tell you they have 'no plans to raise tax'.

 

[goldfish]

August 3rd: "First of all, Fosun remains committed to Wolves and has never had any plans to sell the club. The club is a long-term project and an important one for Fosun." Jeff Shi: Letter to supporters

I still struggle to accept they would be so openly misleading. Sorry but I'm yet to see the clear evidence they are selling up.

The thing is that they can't say the club's up for sale because morale would plummet on the football side, which then makes a sale less likely if it affects performance. And they've lied numerous times before ("Lambert is our man" when they'd already decided to sack him; "there will be no more tramsfers" before literally every big signing, etc).

Also, "no plans to sell the club" =/= "the club is not for sale".

 

[Sussex Wolf]

back up the truck a moment……I had no intention of disrespect……..NONE.

From the first line to the last line, it was patronising and dismissive. Surely you can see that? Rather than respond to the substance of the post, you just trashed the idea that someone should even bother to post their opinion.

 

[tonto]

August 3rd: "First of all, Fosun remains committed to Wolves and has never had any plans to sell the club. The club is a long-term project and an important one for Fosun." Jeff Shi: Letter to supporters

I still struggle to accept they would be so openly misleading. Sorry but I'm yet to see the clear evidence they are selling up.

I feel the opposite, whatever Jeff says I think it is a cover story for the truth, once he said we are not for sale ,I thought we are

 

[tonto]

Do you think they’ll give a **** once we’re sold? Oh and I wouldn’t trust Pinocchio Shi as far as I could throw him.

I find that rather harsh on Pinocchio, he was still a minor

 

[VancouverWolf]

From the first line to the last line, it was patronising and dismissive. Surely you can see that? Rather than respond to the substance of the post, you just trashed the idea that someone should even bother to post their opinion.

For the last month or so we have been on a lousy emotional roller coaster…..what with JL leaving…..ffp……Jeff’s letter….no big transfers….are Fosun selling ….Gary-with-not-much-experience..etc….played great vs United but got trashed by Brighton..etc.

We are emotionally attached to something we have no control over and compared to our first two season back up, it’s lousy.

all I meant is let’s see what happens.

 

[surreywolf]

The thing is that they can't say the club's up for sale because morale would plummet on the football side, which then makes a sale less likely if it affects performance. And they've lied numerous times before ("Lambert is our man" when they'd already decided to sack him; "there will be no more tramsfers" before literally every big signing, etc).

Also, "no plans to sell the club" =/= "the club is not for sale".

Agreed - you all might be right

Just think this is a case of wishful thinking

Until I see / hear any concrete evidence to the contrary

 

[Wolf in Kenilworth]

If Fosun do or do not want to sell, they’ll take their own council and not from a disembodied post from a footy forum.

We can all post or start threads til we’re blue in the face but nothing we say will make any difference.

Asking , ( or using a lot of profanity), whether. Shi should go or whether Fosun should sell is like a tiny ant bite to an elephant.
In 2021, their assets were $1.26B and they have over 70,000 employees.
You don’t get to be that big and profitable by making many mistakes.

For better or worse, we fans can only watch and see what the future brings. Complaining till the cows come home will only make you feel more frustrated and miserable.

I’d forgotten to put you on ignore actually.
Thanks for the reminder.

 

[Sussex Wolf]

For the last month or so we have been on a lousy emotional roller coaster…..what with JL leaving…..ffp……Jeff’s letter….no big transfers….are Fosun selling ….Gary-with-not-much-experience..etc….played great vs United but got trashed by Brighton..etc.

We are emotionally attached to something we have no control over and compared to our first two season back up, it’s lousy.

all I meant is let’s see what happens.

You just said it’s an emotional rollercoaster, so instead of being respectful of that, you just belittled the OP by being patronising:-

“If Fosun do or do not want to sell, they’ll take their own council and not from a disembodied post from a footy forum.”

“We can all post or start threads til we’re blue in the face but nothing we say will make any difference.”

“Complaining till the cows come home will only make you feel more frustrated and miserable.”

That’s what I responding to. It’s unnecessary. I mean the OP itself didn’t use insults or profanity and was a pretty reasonable OP compared to some.

 

[northnorfolkwolf]

For the last month or so we have been on a lousy emotional roller coaster…..what with JL leaving…..ffp……Jeff’s letter….no big transfers….are Fosun selling ….Gary-with-not-much-experience..etc….played great vs United but got trashed by Brighton..etc.

We are emotionally attached to something we have no control over and compared to our first two season back up, it’s lousy.

all I meant is let’s see what happens.

Surely we can discuss things on here? I know very little about international finance and international politics and perhaps even less about what happens in China but I find it fascinating to read some of the knowledgeable posts on here covering these areas. And when it links to what is happening at Molineux you have to read the posts. Thanks for these in-depth posts guys and keep them coming as I feel I'm starting to get a handle on the craziness that's been happening at Wolves in the past 6-8 weeks.

 

[Bacon Sandwich]

If Fosun do or do not want to sell, they’ll take their own council and not from a disembodied post from a footy forum.

We can all post or start threads til we’re blue in the face but nothing we say will make any difference.

Asking , ( or using a lot of profanity), whether. Shi should go or whether Fosun should sell is like a tiny ant bite to an elephant.
In 2021, their assets were $1.26B and they have over 70,000 employees.
You don’t get to be that big and profitable by making many mistakes.

For better or worse, we fans can only watch and see what the future brings. Complaining till the cows come home will only make you feel more frustrated and miserable.

Unlike many posters I don't have you on 'ignore' as I think there is at least a 50% chance you're a Chinese bot and it's interesting to see one at work.
Anyway, let's hope the old assets are slightly more than $1.26bn as those pesky debts are around $38bn Wolves owners divest major assets to tackle debts | TheBusinessDesk.com
And if you believe Fosun's accounts then I - along with several other Mixers - will shortly be knocking on your door with some magic beans...

 

[portsmouthwolves]

In the same letter

Our head coach has undoubtedly done an excellent job since joining us last November. We hired him and his team at a very difficult moment and without a doubt they succeeded in the aims we set for them. Now, together with the players and all support staff, they are working hard again to prepare for the upcoming campaign.

Even though he'd already told them he was going. Literally true of course, just like when there's an election and they tell you they have 'no plans to raise tax'.

It was factually correct thou as he had agreed to stay on to prepare the team for the upcoming campaign.

 

[Sussex Wolf]

It was factually correct thou as he had agreed to stay on to prepare the team for the upcoming campaign.

Yep. Classic letter written to not lie, but not tell the whole truth either.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

It was factually correct thou as he had agreed to stay on to prepare the team for the upcoming campaign.

Yes mate, that was my point. What he said was both literally correct and deliberately misleading. Like saying we've got no plans for a sale while preparing the club for a sale that might just happen later, but isn't exactly planned at the moment.

 

[YouGottaRaulWithIt]

…and you base this ‘likelihood’ on what evidence exactly?

This is a forum for fans to express their opinions, vent their concerns and, sometimes, share a bit of insight. If you want evidence suggest you watch CSI.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

They said Wolves have to be self sufficient and the Nunes sale will enable us to spend something

 

[chignalwolf]

The thing is that they can't say the club's up for sale because morale would plummet on the football side,

you mean it could possibly plummet any more than it is now, Actually Div 1 and Saunders will take some beating I suppose,

 

[Sussex Wolf]

They said Wolves have to be self sufficient and the Nunes sale will enable us to spend something

You mean like all the other sales this summer?

 

[Sevenwolves]

If Fosun don't have the cash or aren't willing to invest in the club, then trying to sell the club is the right thing to do. It seems very likely that this is what's happening, and it's going to mean short term pain.

For the club to be an attractive prospect for a buyer, it should be:

1. Not saddled with debt
2. In a good place for FFP going forwards
3. Low wage bill, with players who would still achieve decent money if sold
4. Away from relegation danger

In order to meet 1, 2 and 3, Fosun should sell without investing. But that endangers 4. The trick for Fosun, if they are trying to sell, is to find the right balance. So if they are selling, we can expect Nunes and Semedo to be sold, with a couple of players of the Brownhill ilk to come in. They need a squad good enough not just to avoid relegation but to be clear of the relegation threat: that uncertainty will put off/delay buyers.

I suspect they didn't sell Kilman because finding a homegrown replacement of sufficient quality would have been very very difficult.

My hunch is that this is what's happening. It isn't asset stripping, and is actually the right thing to do for the long-term future of the club, but it's hugely risky. If the club's not been sold by Jan and we're at risk of relegation I'd expect spend then.

Sorry doesn’t make sense. You take the Kilman money and reinvlvest if you’re trying to maximise value. Centre halves are available as proved by Dawson acquisition

 

[Sevenwolves]

If Fosun do or do not want to sell, they’ll take their own council and not from a disembodied post from a footy forum.

We can all post or start threads til we’re blue in the face but nothing we say will make any difference.

Asking , ( or using a lot of profanity), whether. Shi should go or whether Fosun should sell is like a tiny ant bite to an elephant.
In 2021, their assets were $1.26B and they have over 70,000 employees.
You don’t get to be that big and profitable by making many mistakes.

For better or worse, we fans can only watch and see what the future brings. Complaining till the cows come home will only make you feel more frustrated and miserable.

Not true. They have made many mistakes. See Thomas cook

 

[Wisdomwolf]

Unlike many posters I don't have you on 'ignore' as I think there is at least a 50% chance you're a Chinese bot and it's interesting to see one at work.
Anyway, let's hope the old assets are slightly more than $1.26bn as those pesky debts are around $38bn Wolves owners divest major assets to tackle debts | TheBusinessDesk.com
And if you believe Fosun's accounts then I - along with several other Mixers - will shortly be knocking on your door with some magic beans...

Let’s be clear I think they’ve served their time but in the interest of balance the attached article is 12 months old and does not take into account a major group refinancing exercise earlier this year. It quotes Moody’s but not S&P, who in my opinion is a better credit rated agency. Alongside the above article we have seen circulation of the Asia Nikkei piece, again 12 months old, to reinforce the same points. I am not sure anyone of us is particularly qualified to make an informed judgement on their finances and should certainly steer away from rehashing old articles. Finally, for what its worth FI share price rose these last few days.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

You mean like all the other sales this summer?

No that counts towards the 50m transfer profit..,

 

[Flea]

There was that line in the old movie where Michael Douglas is losing it...Falling Down?

Economically viable.

Is Fosun that in the not to distant future?