Forest- possible points deduction

[Fenrir_]

Well I think that was certainly the case 12 months ago, but now I think it's established as 6+1 point per £5m, so the confusion is only about the size of breach and what does and doesn't count as spending. I really expected that the size of the breaches would have been announced when they were charged. To a layman like me there really doesn't seem to be a justification or explanation of why the whole process takes so long. It feels more like a negotiation that establishment of facts.

Is this an actual thing or has it just been speculated that the deduction parameters are 6pts for breaking then an extra point at every £5m over based on Everton’s deduction

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

Is this an actual thing or has it just been speculated that the deduction parameters are 6pts for breaking then an extra point at every £5m over based on Everton’s deduction

Well I think that's what they said they wanted the standard to be, could have it wrong of course (wouldn't be the first time!)

 

[Contrarian]

This is what I mean, surely they’re just dragging it out so that the Premier League goes “**** it it’s nearly the end of the season, we’ll take the points of next season instead”.

I think it's probably fairer that points are deducted at start of season, so teams know where they stand. Though also, can see an argument that they broke the rules, presumably giving them an unfair advantage against teams who didn't , so can't complain either way.

 

[Hoganstolemywife]

Before they failed the FFP test, I was told between 6 and 12 is most likely scenario. That would certainly liven the bottom up

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

Before they failed the FFP test, I was told between 6 and 12 is most likely scenario. That would certainly liven the bottom up

Especially if Everton get another 9 taken away

 

[topcat99]

Before they failed the FFP test, I was told between 6 and 12 is most likely scenario. That would certainly liven the bottom up

Especially given our current position. We can sit back and enjoy watching them fight like rats in a sack.

 

[goldfish]

Is this an actual thing or has it just been speculated that the deduction parameters are 6pts for breaking then an extra point at every £5m over based on Everton’s deduction

Well I think that's what they said they wanted the standard to be, could have it wrong of course (wouldn't be the first time!)

This is correct inasmuch as the Premier League suggested that's what they'd like. The panel that decides, however, is supposedly independent and has the final say. It can take whatever it likes into consideration as mitigation or aggravation.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

This is correct inasmuch as the Premier League suggested that's what they'd like. The panel that decides, however, is supposedly independent and has the final say. It can take whatever it likes into consideration as mitigation or aggravation.

Thanks. Feels a bit like a government 'independent' panel doesn't it though? I'm going to appoint some people, who I will pick, I will pay, but obviously their conclusions will be entirely their own.

 

[woop woop barmy army]

Be great to see both Everton and Forest put to the bottom of the table. No room for cheats in the game.

 

[Premier Quality]

just bear in mind that the reason Everton’s first deduction came this season was because of their appeal - it was their choice to push it into this season, knowing full well they would likely get another punishment in the same season for this years offences.

I have no sympathy for them at all, and really hope they go down….

 

[SA Wolf]

just bear in mind that the reason Everton’s first deduction came this season was because of their appeal - it was their choice to push it into this season, knowing full well they would likely get another punishment in the same season for this years offences.

I have no sympathy for them at all, and really hope they go down….

Is this correct? I thought that Everton had appealed at the severity of their punishment which was only confirmed this season.

 

[Werewolf of Wombourne]

My brother in law is a Forest fan and he’s convinced they won’t get a points deduction this season as it’s too late in the season and the points deduction won’t be a big one due to the Brennan Johnson sale

 

[Plovdiv Wolf]

Be great to see both Everton and Forest put to the bottom of the table. No room for cheats in the game

When do we find out

 

[Northampton_wolf]

When do we find out

Havent even had hearing yet.

Should find hearing date before end of Feb

 

[Flump]

Thanks. Feels a bit like a government 'independent' panel doesn't it though? I'm going to appoint some people, who I will pick, I will pay, but obviously their conclusions will be entirely their own.

What's the alternative though?

 

[The Wolf In The North]

What's the alternative though?

A panel of Liverpool and Derby fans, says I.

 

[goldfish]

My brother in law is a Forest fan and he’s convinced they won’t get a points deduction this season as it’s too late in the season and the points deduction won’t be a big one due to the Brennan Johnson sale

I don't see how the Johnson sale can be taken into account because they'll then be allowed to use it twice as it'll still count in the current period (when they actually received the money).

 

[Oldgoldilox]

I honestly think that the way the Premier League are conducting all this in terms of timings and imposing of sanctions will turn out to be one of the biggest scandals in football. During the same period that Everton were shatting all over the rulebook, Leicester and Leeds made efforts to comply and got relegated as a result, Everton get conveniently sanctioned after the event and enjoy another season and £100m plus of PL money. Then the second Everton and Forest sanctions are dealt with in a way that means we wont know even after all the games have been played what the final placings will be. Its an absolute farce.

Notwithstanding the fact that everyone knows City have been breaking the rules with impunity for years.

If you are going to have rules on profit and sustainability, make them crystal clear so that any breach is identifiable and have it clear and up front what the sanction and penalties for breach are.

Also make sure that accounting deadlines are common for all clubs and that a clear timeline for assessment is drawn up to ensure that sanction and penalties for breach are applied timely and appropriately.

You cannot have random arbitrary deadlines and clubs getting punished years after the event having banked 100s of millions of pounds, its truly scandalous. Everton fans can bleat all they want about the PL being corrupt but they're looking at it from the wrong angle, the scandal is not around the scale of their sanction, more that it should have been applied in the period of the breach and that they should be down in the Championship right now with Leeds and Southampton.

 

[goldfish]

Thanks. Feels a bit like a government 'independent' panel doesn't it though? I'm going to appoint some people, who I will pick, I will pay, but obviously their conclusions will be entirely their own.

And normally the PL would like them to be lenient but not at the moment because they think toughness will ward off government appointed regulators.

 

[WickedWolfie]

My brother in law is a Forest fan and he’s convinced they won’t get a points deduction this season as it’s too late in the season and the points deduction won’t be a big one due to the Brennan Johnson sale

Have a few pints of whatever he's on. They have no more chance of being let off than Everton did.

 

[WickedWolfie]

A panel of Liverpool and Derby fans, says I.

Stick a few Leicester and County fans in there too...

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

Have a few pints of whatever he's on. They have no more chance of being let off than Everton did.

Forest are guilty big time.

Throw the book at the pair of them. Little Luton to stay up will be a fairytale

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

What's the alternative though?

Fair question, maybe it's the only way, makes a bit of a farce of the term 'independent' to me though.

 

[Stourport wolf]

I just don’t understand the thinking behind Forest spending.

It was like a drunken gambler in a casino, knowing that it would come back to bite

Maybe a drunken gambler in a casino, spending all the housekeeping money, thinking his wife would let him off again.

 

[wwbug]

It still doesn’t feel right that you can only compete with the ‘big six ‘ by spending money and if you spend money you are punished .
For me I would just forbid borrowing. If you have the cash then ok.

 

[Thank you Sir Jack]

Before they failed the FFP test, I was told between 6 and 12 is most likely scenario. That would certainly liven the bottom up

If Everton and Forest were both punished then it would certainly liven my bottom up.

 

[CelebrityWolf]

Such a farce. Abolish it right now ffs. Randomly deducting points here or there in whichever season suits and then of course ignoring the many breaches others have made over recent years. Farcical.

 

[Minimalist]

I thought 12 was the maximum....

Yeah sure I read the punishment for breaking ffp was “up to a 12 point deduction”.

 

[Minimalist]

It still doesn’t feel right that you can only compete with the ‘big six ‘ by spending money and if you spend money you are punished .
For me I would just forbid borrowing. If you have the cash then ok.

Yeah I’ve thought similar.
Ban clubs from purchasing any players if they have a debt, but if an owner wants to, say, buy a season ticket in the best spot for £100m then let them or pay over the odds for some sort of sponsorship.
All transfer fees should be 100% paid up front without add ons and clauses too.

 

[lets all have a disco]

Yeah sure I read the punishment for breaking ffp was “up to a 12 point deduction”.

yes when Everton was done ..it was clearly stated that 12 was the maximum...

 

[Madmalc]

I would suspect first time offence it's 6 points for the FFP infringement and an extra point for each £5m loss over the limit. Then for the second offence it's 12 points for the FFP infringement and 2 extra points for every £5m loss over the limit.

Otherwise offenders aren't given a reality check to get their finances in order.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

What they surely need really is live monitoring (of the sort that I thought Everton were subject to last season!) that stops anyone breaking the rules in the first place! Retrospective punishments don't provide justice for the clubs who have been relegated.

Everton have a sanction for breaking the rules in the season where Burnley were relegated. They would have gone down if that sanction had been applied at the time.

Then it should have been applied in the season where they cheated again, but managed to get it delayed, which cost Leicester their place.

Imagine if they survive this season by the skin of their teeth (already with maybe £100m in revenue and £40m in allowed losses more that they should have had) and relegate Luton.

Beyond farscical.

Maybe the new rules will enable this, I won't hold my breath though.

 

[Sedgley Gold N Black]

I don't see how the Johnson sale can be taken into account because they'll then be allowed to use it twice as it'll still count in the current period (when they actually received the money).

Yeah I can't see it, especially as it was on deadline day rather than the cut off end June/July.

If they'd missed it by a day or so, due to some sort of technicality like issues with the initial medical after everything had been agreed, then maybe they could push for it to be included in the last FFP accounts but not this year, even that'd be a stretch.

 

[Sedgley Gold N Black]

What they surely need really is live monitoring (of the sort that I thought Everton were subject to last season!) that stops anyone breaking the rules in the first place! Retrospective punishments don't provide justice for the clubs who have been relegated.

Everton have a sanction for breaking the rules in the season where Burnley were relegated. They would have gone down if that sanction had been applied at the time.

Then it should have been applied in the season where they cheated again, but managed to get it delayed, which cost Leicester their place.

Imagine if they survive this season by the skin of their teeth (already with maybe £100m in revenue and £40m in allowed losses more that they should have had) and relegate Luton.

Beyond farscical.

Maybe the new rules will enable this, I won't hold my breath though.

The season technically runs through until the end of June though, so you could do what we did and sell Neves whilst still in that season but with nothing left to play.

It's really what Forest should have done, but as they say, they got more money waiting rather than rushing a sale through.

 

[SmiffyWolf]

The thing with all of this is it should be a deadline say in 2 weeks time where they have a week to make a case to defend themselves and then any teams in breach of FFP should be deducted points .

Otherwise we get to closer to the end of the season and things drag onto next season.

Its not rocket science or is it just me ?. You spend more than the limit and don't bring in the funds then you end up having points deducted . You appeal and fail well double that deduction . Surely then say Everton Relegated and Forest with 9 points would mean other teams in the summer would be selling players and fast . Just like we had to with our players in the summer . Otherwise what is the point of the FFP in the first place

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

The season technically runs through until the end of June though, so you could do what we did and sell Neves whilst still in that season but with nothing left to play.

It's really what Forest should have done, but as they say, they got more money waiting rather than rushing a sale through.

Yes, I mean, knowing Spurs they probably were aware of this and tried to lowball Forest. The defence seems to be that they could have passed FFP, but chose not to. I mean, if you can call that a defence!

 

[WKFWolf]

The Vile might finally be getting caught up with...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1759302390996418663

 

[SA Wolf]

The Vile might finally be getting caught up with...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1759302390996418663

Oh, woe is me!

 

[Rabid Wolf]

The Vile might finally be getting caught up with...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1759302390996418663

I reckon this messed us up when we were in the Europa League.

 

[Darvo]

I honestly think that the way the Premier League are conducting all this in terms of timings and imposing of sanctions will turn out to be one of the biggest scandals in football. During the same period that Everton were shatting all over the rulebook, Leicester and Leeds made efforts to comply and got relegated as a result, Everton get conveniently sanctioned after the event and enjoy another season and £100m plus of PL money. Then the second Everton and Forest sanctions are dealt with in a way that means we wont know even after all the games have been played what the final placings will be. Its an absolute farce.

Notwithstanding the fact that everyone knows City have been breaking the rules with impunity for years.

If you are going to have rules on profit and sustainability, make them crystal clear so that any breach is identifiable and have it clear and up front what the sanction and penalties for breach are.

Also make sure that accounting deadlines are common for all clubs and that a clear timeline for assessment is drawn up to ensure that sanction and penalties for breach are applied timely and appropriately.

You cannot have random arbitrary deadlines and clubs getting punished years after the event having banked 100s of millions of pounds, its truly scandalous. Everton fans can bleat all they want about the PL being corrupt but they're looking at it from the wrong angle, the scandal is not around the scale of their sanction, more that it should have been applied in the period of the breach and that they should be down in the Championship right now with Leeds and Southampton.

Absolutely this. We have a bunch of cretins running the game.