Forest- possible points deduction

[SA Wolf]

The question of whether we should in someway support Forest in calling-out VAR is moot imo. All clubs should be calling-out the system that is currently in place as it doesn't work and takes joy and emotion out of the sport. All clubs, including the Sky 6 have had VAR decisions go against them, often incorrectly or the "clear and obvious" get out clause.
Surely, the concept of VAR; to get ALL major decisions correct, is one that all clubs should support, so long as it's in a timely fashion and doesn't suck the emotion of goalscoring out of the game. Unfortunately, generally clubs are not speaking out loudly enough. We only hear from the likes of Wolves, Liverpool and Forest immediately after big, obvious issues. It then all goes quiet until the next one.
Until all clubs start complaining and demanding change, the system will continue.
FWIW, I've only seen the Forest 'issues' very briefly as I didn't watch the match over the weekend and only thought the third one, where Young went through the back of CHO was a penalty. In that case, Everton would have still won the match.

 

[Madmalc]

Wicked thought, wonder what a poll result of PGMOL opinions about the 2 points deduction for FFP and PSR breaches would be if the choices were:

• About right
• Too lenient
• Too harsh.

 

[old wittonian]

When you go down that road it's a dangerous one.

Who dares wins, unless you're up against the PGMOL.

 

[Hot Fuss]

Just watched the 3 appeals, they’re hardly the stonewall penalties I was expecting to see after reading this thread!
First one no chance, second one some get given, some don’t (personally hate penalties for that kind of handball, not a lot Young could do) and the third maybe could have been.
Don’t blame the on field ref for not giving them, probably should have told to have a look at the last one.
Boo ****ing hoo.

Perhaps instead of blaming refs, and praying for penalties, Forest should try and actually knuckle down and show some balls. 2 wins in 14 games lads, I suppose it’s all the refs fault. We went there with half a team and they blew it. 1 up at Luton and they blew it. MGW through on goal at 1-0 on Sunday and puts it 6 yards wide. iTs cORrUPt!!!

 

[groundhogwolf]

Just watched the 3 appeals, they’re hardly the stonewall penalties I was expecting to see after reading this thread!
First one no chance, second one some get given, some don’t (personally hate penalties for that kind of handball, not a lot Young could do) and the third maybe could have been.
Don’t blame the on field ref for not giving them, probably should have told to have a look at the last one.
Boo ****ing hoo.

Perhaps instead of blaming refs, and praying for penalties, Forest should try and actually knuckle down and show some balls. 2 wins in 14 games lads, I suppose it’s all the refs fault. We went there with half a team and they blew it. 1 up at Luton and they blew it. MGW through on goal at 1-0 on Sunday and puts it 6 yards wide. iTs cORrUPt!!!

And no doubt all our questionable VAR decisions could be viewed in the same way.

 

[Halesowen wwfc]

Just reading through the forest forun. They seem to think 95% of other teams fans are behind them in their actions. I dont get the feeling thats the case at all but shows what a blinkered view you can get in your determination to justify your actions

 

[DanishWolf]

Just reading through the forest forun. They seem to think 95% of other teams fans are behind them in their actions. I dont get the feeling thats the case at all but shows what a blinkered view you can get in your determination to justify your actions

Well I certainly don't belong to the 95%

I'm not opposed to a collective statement along the same by by more or all clubs. In fact I'd favour it.

But Forest is only in this for their own gain, not the integrity of the league and there's no way I support that.
In fact I hope they get a further points deduction due to this.

 

[Halesowen wwfc]

Well I certainly don't belong to the 95%

I'm not opposed to a collective statement along the same by by more or all clubs. In fact I'd favour it.

But Forest is only in this for their own gain, not the integrity of the league and there's no way I support that.
In fact I hope they get a further points deduction due to this.

Agree with your last point. But its a fine line regarding points deductions and bringing the game into disrepute. We have been verbal as well throughout the season regarding decisions against us, just not an attack on a refs integrity which so far has resulted in just fines for hobbs and GON. But it could very easily have gone that way in the heat of the moment. As we were the black sheep last season with lopetegui's antics on the sideline causing what clearly seemed to be an unconscious bias against us, i expect to see the same now with forest, and those 50 50 decisions going the way of the opposition.

 

[iamthenewno2]

Lower league sides complain just as much as the rest about rubbish officials, just no one cares because it's not the prem.

VAR isn't the problem, it's just rubbish refs either on the pitch or in a video booth.

It is VAR that's the problem though, there has always been poor officiating and VAR hasn't fixed that.

I went to watch non-league Big George's Maidstone last weekend and there were many many questionable decisions, the Ref had decided, shirt pulling, two-handed pushes in the back, and one near headlock were not to be punished, additionally, there were a several calls for penalties from both sides. In all cases people shouted their complaints, told the linesman to wake up and similar, and then went back to the game, the incident too quick to dwell on.

VAR draws attention to every event, every mistake, every decision and allows the crowd to wallow in it rather than move on. It wouldn't be OK for the Ref hold up play for 5 minutes to contemplate whether they should give a goal or not, so it shouldn't be for VAR either, it needs to speed up, give it a time limit, if it needs lines it is not offside and in some cases have it only used if the ref asks for it.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

Apparently Nuno could get a touch line ban anyone else heard the same?

 

[old wittonian]

Apparently Nuno could get a touch line ban anyone else heard the same?

Has he been found guilty yet?

 

[SuperGran]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1782700601605869985

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1782700601605869985

Blows my mind that Forest are going to get a private hearing of the audio. I mean wtf is going on between the VAR and the ref for it not to just be released publicly. The bloody broadcasters hear it live. The secrecy does nothing to inspire trust.

 

[Frank Lincoln]

Blows my mind that Forest are going to get a private hearing of the audio. I mean wtf is going on between the VAR and the ref for it not to just be released publicly. The bloody broadcasters hear it live. The secrecy does nothing to inspire trust.

Have they something to hide? Surely Webb realises that by only allowing a private hearing of the audio will make the sceptics even more sceptical.

 

[Watfordfc]

And no doubt all our questionable VAR decisions could be viewed in the same way.

One was definitely a penalty but the other 2 weren’t exactly obvious.

I guess the club feel had they all been given Forest would have won a vital game 3-2 but football isn’t that simple .

As Sean Dyche said everyone has had those bad decisions against them .

For all we know the refs might not like certain clubs all over the place as do.

 

[Mutchy]

Apparently Nuno could get a touch line ban anyone else heard the same?

Was he red carded? Or has he been charged with something? Touch line bans aren’t pulled out of thin air.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

Was he red carded? Or has he been charged with something? Touch line bans aren’t pulled out of thin air.

No but for his comments I think

 

[Mutchy]

No but for his comments I think

He’d still have to be charged with something first.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

He’d still have to be charged with something first.

Yes I think they’ve been told to explain first to the FA. Clattenberg, Williams and Nuno that’s how an investigation works I guess

 

[Frank Lincoln]

Yes I think they’ve been told to explain first to the FA. Clattenberg, Williams and Nuno that’s how an investigation works I guess

With Nottingham Forest inferring that Stuart Attwell cheated, it was inevitable that those you mentioned would be asked to explain their comments.

It is one thing to say a referee isn’t very good, but to doubt the referees honesty and integrity is on another level.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

With Nottingham Forest inferring that Stuart Attwell cheated, it was inevitable that those you mentioned would be asked to explain their comments.

It is one thing to say a referee isn’t very good, but to doubt the referees honesty and integrity is on another level.

Well we had a luton fan from luton ref our game what’s the issue we got a fair draw and bias red card and penalty against us lol looking back every little helps xo

 

[cannockwolves]

I guess the problem is we have seen all three of those decisions result in goals.

We had a penalty given against us where Coady brushed someone's foot, I can't remember the game now. Then there was Moutinho armpit penalty, there have been some really soft penalties given.

I think all of them are penalties, I don't dispute that the first one is probably not enough to put him down but you can say that with 80% of the out of box fouls anyway. He has felt the touch and gone down, I know we would all be screaming for it even though its a 50/50.

The hand ball is an interesting one. I don't think the Moutinho armpit was ever a penalty, but Young has his arms out you can say he is running and is in a natural position but he gets and advantage. Does that mean now every defender in the six yard box can have their arms outstretched to make them selves bigger. Lets try that at Anfield on the last day in front of the Kop for Liverpool to win the title and see what the outcome of that would be!

The last one is 100% a penalty. He did not get the ball and the VAR should have sent the ref to the monitor.

Its just the inconsistency and poor performances of refs that get me.

I just can't understand how they can consistently make poor decisions, they should have protocols in place with checklists to minimise these sorts of issues, like airplane pilots do on take off or F1 pit stop teams.

I don't think they are receiving big brown envelopes (any more) but I do suspect there is a bit of subconscious bias. They have a nice meal laid on, get to see all the stars, get paid well, and its all very comfortable on first name terms with managers and directors - as long as they keep the sky money rolling in and there aren't too many Leicester City premier league wins.

They are untouchable and nothing every happens, there are no consequences for incompetence maybe a week in the championship - that tells you all your need to know, when sending one of them to the championship is a major punishment.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

Well we had a luton fan from luton ref our game what’s the issue we got a fair draw and bias red card and penalty against us lol looking back every little helps xo

Well allegedly he was a Peterborough fan from Dunstable. Couldn't have been much quicker to get his red card out or point to the spot if he'd been Eric Morecambe though!

 

[maws]

Can I just clarify, this is the same Forest whose fans didn’t think it was a foul on Nunes last season, yet it’s far more a penalty than any of these 3???? Ok thought so…… idiots

 

[Brockmoorwolf]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1782804327750373399

 

[epic]

How quickly they forget ...................

Steve Cook has fans in raptures with VAR comment at Forest celebration

Latest Nottingham Forest news from NottinghamshireLive as Reds celebrate promotion to the Premier League

www.nottinghampost.com

 

[Fenrir_]

The thing that gets me, is this is the same Stuart Attwell on VAR not overruling the ref (he certainly should have for the third one), that was on VAR for our game at Fulham and refused to overrule the ref when Semedo got the ball and didn't make contact with Cairney, refused to overrule the ref when Vinicius head butted Kilman, but did overrule the ref when Wilson bought a penalty in the final minute and the ref had waved it away

How can the same VAR referee pick and choose when he gets involved and still get the majority of the decisions completely wrong? A random bloke down the pub would get more of them right

 

[Sussex Wolf]

With Nottingham Forest inferring that Stuart Attwell cheated, it was inevitable that those you mentioned would be asked to explain their comments.

It is one thing to say a referee isn’t very good, but to doubt the referees honesty and integrity is on another level.

Yes, absolutely. I honestly can’t see any downside from the strong position Forest have taken.

If they are proven right, then PGMOL will be shown to be the biased, incompetent bunch we all know too well. Hopefully it leads to major reforms of their organisation and governance.

If their accusations are not proven, as is highly likely to be the case, then Forest face some pretty strict disciplinary action for their so strongly worded statements. I mean a large fine for certain, but possibly also points deduction.

I’m watching this with a big smile from my holiday in the US!

 

[Saltyjim]

The thing that gets me, is this is the same Stuart Attwell on VAR not overruling the ref (he certainly should have for the third one), that was on VAR for our game at Fulham and refused to overrule the ref when Semedo got the ball and didn't make contact with Cairney, refused to overrule the ref when Vinicius head butted Kilman, but did overrule the ref when Wilson bought a penalty in the final minute and the ref had waved it away

How can the same VAR referee pick and choose when he gets involved and still get the majority of the decisions completely wrong? A random bloke down the pub would get more of them right

Plus the fact Taylor was the ref who gave Newcastle their penalty at Molineux for a challenge similar (but with less contact) than Youngs challenge on Reyna.

 

[Rhoswolf]

The thing that gets me, is this is the same Stuart Attwell on VAR not overruling the ref (he certainly should have for the third one), that was on VAR for our game at Fulham and refused to overrule the ref when Semedo got the ball and didn't make contact with Cairney, refused to overrule the ref when Vinicius head butted Kilman, but did overrule the ref when Wilson bought a penalty in the final minute and the ref had waved it away

How can the same VAR referee pick and choose when he gets involved and still get the majority of the decisions completely wrong? A random bloke down the pub would get more of them right

Just maybe he struggles with honesty, if so, not the only one.

 

[Watfordfc]

The thing that gets me, is this is the same Stuart Attwell on VAR not overruling the ref (he certainly should have for the third one), that was on VAR for our game at Fulham and refused to overrule the ref when Semedo got the ball and didn't make contact with Cairney, refused to overrule the ref when Vinicius head butted Kilman, but did overrule the ref when Wilson bought a penalty in the final minute and the ref had waved it away

How can the same VAR referee pick and choose when he gets involved and still get the majority of the decisions completely wrong? A random bloke down the pub would get more of them right

Subjective lottery isn’t it .

Almost like it just depend how they feel on the day !

Plus the fact Taylor was the ref who gave Newcastle their penalty at Molineux for a challenge similar (but with less contact) than Youngs challenge on Reyna.

It has been said that some refs have that greater air of power so others are scared to go against them.

Or they do it once and got ticked off .

I think Forest would have got more sympathy for their statement going down that route more as it’s probably true.

 

[SuperGran]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1782879742066102389

 

[jackdusty]

Premier League and PGMOL are trolling Forest now

MSN

 

[WickedWolfie]

Premier League and PGMOL are trolling Forest now

MSN

If the powers that be invite litigation they better not get upset if someone says "bring it on".....

 

[old wittonian]

If the powers that be invite litigation they better not get upset if someone says "bring it on".....

They're taking the **** surely.

 

[WickedWolfie]

They're taking the **** surely.

Particularly since the media report that it was Webb personally who refused to withdraw Atwell. Time he got the sack. Better PR than Riley but otherwise same useless old crap.

 

[Contrarian]

Premier League and PGMOL are trolling Forest now

MSN

If that's true, then the smart money will be on Luton right now. Mind you, if almighty God came down to referee our match with omniscience, no bias and every decision 100% correct, the smart money would still be on Luton. Oh hang on, just heard that VAR is overuling God's decision - our goal is disallowed because a Luton player tripped over his own laces 2 minutes earlier and play should have been stopped. God knew everything in the universe apart from that one rule. There you go, it's incompetence, not bias.

 

[Norman Bell]

Particularly since the media report that it was Webb personally who refused to withdraw Atwell. Time he got the sack. Better PR than Riley but otherwise same useless old crap.

My two main memories of Howard Webb are of him totally losing control of the 2010 World Cup final , then more tellingly where recent allegations of VAR bias in favour of certain clubs are concerned was when Ryan Babel then of Liverpool photo-shopped a Man Utd jersey onto a picture of Webb after he felt Webb totally favoured United in a 2011 FA Cup tie. Mr Babel actually made history as the first player to be fined for bringing the game into disrepute by using twitter !

 

[Watfordfc]

I remember that .

De Jong got away with a kung fu kick on Alonso?

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

My two main memories of Howard Webb are of him totally losing control of the 2010 World Cup final , then more tellingly where recent allegations of VAR bias in favour of certain clubs are concerned was when Ryan Babel then of Liverpool photo-shopped a Man Utd jersey onto a picture of Webb after he felt Webb totally favoured United in a 2011 FA Cup tie. Mr Babel actually made history as the first player to be fined for bringing the game into disrepute by using twitter !

I honestly thought he'd be a big improvement, but like so much about VAR, what slowly dawned on me is that it doesn't matter who you change, or what you change, the whole idea is just wrong.

I would forgive him the WC Final though to be fair, not his fault the Dutch decided to turn into peak Uruguay!