Forest- possible points deduction

[SuperGran]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1758536474805330317

Fingers crossed for a points deduction

 

[WW1963]

Watch them get a 6 point deduction. Everton fans will be fuming and it will strengthen their conspiracy theory that the world wants them relegated.

 

[SeaWolf]

... it will strengthen their conspiracy theory that the world wants them relegated.

Erm...that's true, though, isn't it?

 

[StaffordWolf]

Erm...that's true, though, isn't it?

Yeah but not for the reasons they think!

 

[topcat99]

Erm...that's true, though, isn't it?

No. It will be all nice and fair when Everton also get a further 6 points deducted

 

[JadeWolf]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1758536474805330317

Fingers crossed for a points deduction

So they don’t find out next week what their punishment is, they find out the date when they’ll find out what their punishment is. Why does it take so long?

 

[rincewind]

So they don’t find out next week what their punishment is, they find out the date when they’ll find out what their punishment is. Why does it take so long?

Given there's £100million at stake, the clubs involved will find every legal and emotional argument they can to fight the case. The Premier league will have to defend against them all.
But yes, it's painfully slow and I can see the horrendous situation at the end of the season where Forest and Everton are waiting on appeals and up to 4 clubs don't know what league they will be in. Can you imagine thinking you've survived by a couple of points then early June, Everton get 4 points back!?

 

[JadeWolf]

Given there's £100million at stake, the clubs involved will find every legal and emotional argument they can to fight the case. The Premier league will have to defend against them all.
But yes, it's painfully slow and I can see the horrendous situation at the end of the season where Forest and Everton are waiting on appeals and up to 4 clubs don't know what league they will be in. Can you imagine thinking you've survived by a couple of points then early June, Everton get 4 points back!?

This is what I mean, surely they’re just dragging it out so that the Premier League goes “**** it it’s nearly the end of the season, we’ll take the points of next season instead”.

 

[kidder_wolf_II]

Given there's £100million at stake, the clubs involved will find every legal and emotional argument they can to fight the case. The Premier league will have to defend against them all.
But yes, it's painfully slow and I can see the horrendous situation at the end of the season where Forest and Everton are waiting on appeals and up to 4 clubs don't know what league they will be in. Can you imagine thinking you've survived by a couple of points then early June, Everton get 4 points back!?

I’m not sure what legal action the clubs can take when both Everton (twice) and Forest have already pleaded guilty to the charges and Everton have only appealed the severity of the first punishment.

Think we find out next week if Everton will have their points deduction reduced. Meaning we will pretty much be able to work out what points deductions Everton and Forest will get for lasts seasons ffp failures.

Everton will soon shut up when the second set of deductions result in Forest, Burnley and Sheff Utd being cut adrift while pretty much saving Everton from relegation again!!!

 

[Aurum Lupus]

Everton will soon shut up when the second set of deductions result in Forest, Burnley and Sheff Utd being cut adrift while pretty much saving Everton from relegation again!!!

Everton haven't won in the league since mid December. If they get a 6 point deduction it basically makes it 4 team battle for relegation. Luton have started picking up points to now and would be 7 points clear of them. They just don't look like that's the kind of gap they can recover right now.

 

[Oh When the Wolves]

Will be a farce this season

The season will finish and no one will know who has stayed up

 

[Ned]

Will be a farce this season

The season will finish and no one will know who has stayed up

Then legal appeals will drag on and on.

 

[JadeWolf]

Will be a farce this season

The season will finish and no one will know who has stayed up

I suspect that’s what Everton and Forest want. It would then be much easier to take the points of next season.

I might be wrong, but the ten points Everton lost this season, technically should have been taken off last season, and if they had they would have been relegated. So they’ve already got an extra year of PL money they probably shouldn’t have had.

 

[SquaddieWolf]

Will be a farce this season

The season will finish and no one will know who has stayed up

We will know that we've stayed up, that's enough for me lol

 

[wolfslair]

I suspect that’s what Everton and Forest want. It would then be much easier to take the points of next season.

I might be wrong, but the ten points Everton lost this season, technically should have been taken off last season, and if they had they would have been relegated. So they’ve already got an extra year of PL money they probably shouldn’t have had.

Yet their fans still cry out as victims of a conspiracy against them on this matter…..

They cheated for multiple years, allowing them to stay up, banked money they don’t deserve and relegated teams who didn’t cheat the system. Then had their initial deduction delayed, effectively saving them from relegation AGAIN…..

But somehow THEY are the victims……

 

[kidder_wolf_II]

Everton haven't won in the league since mid December. If they get a 6 point deduction it basically makes it 4 team battle for relegation. Luton have started picking up points to now and would be 7 points clear of them. They just don't look like that's the kind of gap they can recover right now.

Everton won’t need to finish above Luton to stay up.

Just finish about Forest, Burnley and Sheff Utd and they stay up. They will easily finish above Burnley and SU even with another points deduction. Rumour has it Forests points deduction will be much bigger than Evertons second one.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

Everton won’t need to finish above Luton to stay up.

Just finish about Forest, Burnley and Sheff Utd and they stay up. They will easily finish above Burnley and SU even with another points deduction. Rumour has it Forests points deduction will be much bigger than Evertons second one.

Yeah Iv heard forest could be facing 20pts and Everton a further 6 but there is no credibility to these rumours only what someone within football thinks. Hopefully doesn’t drag on too long we want the last day to be exciting at both ends of the table

 

[kidder_wolf_II]

Yeah Iv heard forest could be facing 20pts and Everton a further 6 but there is no credibility to these rumours only what they think

Think the rumours are based on the points deduction Everton got (6 points for failing plus 1 point for every 5m lost) and how much these clubs have lost this time round.

But it’s irrelevant until we know the outcome of Everton’s appeal as that will be the new bench mark to work out.

What we will know is that it’s very unlikely these clubs will succeed in reducing the point’s deductions on appeal if the PL follow the same formula based after evertons first appeal.

 

[Aurum Lupus]

Everton won’t need to finish above Luton to stay up.

Just finish about Forest, Burnley and Sheff Utd and they stay up. They will easily finish above Burnley and SU even with another points deduction. Rumour has it Forests points deduction will be much bigger than Evertons second one.

I didn't say they did. I said if the deduction happens relegation is between 4 clubs, Luton isn't one, but Everton for sure is.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

Watch them get a 6 point deduction. Everton fans will be fuming and it will strengthen their conspiracy theory that the world wants them relegated.

I mean who knows? But the level is set at 6+1 for every £5m so likely to be much more I'd say. Assuming the excuse about Johnson is right and the £30m they could have passed (big assumption) then maybe the overspend is around £25m and that'll be 11 points. Either that or they make it up as they go along ..

 

[JohnB]

For me - 6 points for breaching FFP is ok and then extra points depending how much,

I wouldn’t deduct 6 points twice for Everton in the same season, but I would add the amount over as extra deductions.

So something like 12 points for Everton (10+2 say) and 8 points for Forest.

So table is something like

Sheff Utd 13
Burnley 13
Forest 16
Everton 17
Luton 20

 

[WickedWolfie]

For me - 6 points for breaching FFP is ok and then extra points depending how much,

I wouldn’t deduct 6 points twice for Everton in the same season, but I would add the amount over as extra deductions.

So something like 12 points for Everton (10+2 say) and 8 points for Forest.

So table is something like

Sheff Utd 13
Burnley 13
Forest 16
Everton 17
Luton 20

The problem with your plan is that Everton, due to stalling the process, would get away with a lower overall punishment. Had they been punished last season as they should have been they would be in the Chump right now!

 

[JohnB]

The problem with your plan is that Everton, due to stalling the process, would get away with a lower overall punishment. Had they been punished last season as they should have been they would be in the Chump right now!

Agreed - but they should have been punished last season…..no help to Leicester, Southampton or Leeds that they are doubly punished this season.

 

[Rowzed]

Will be a farce this season

The season will finish and no one will know who has stayed up

We will, after that….. bothered?

 

[Fenrir_]

For me - 6 points for breaching FFP is ok and then extra points depending how much,

I wouldn’t deduct 6 points twice for Everton in the same season, but I would add the amount over as extra deductions.

So something like 12 points for Everton (10+2 say) and 8 points for Forest.

So table is something like

Sheff Utd 13
Burnley 13
Forest 16
Everton 17
Luton 20

I'd deduct them more for not sorting it out after the first charge - especially as they've had guidance through it and ignored it

Is a joke though that we won't know the final table until nearly a week after the final game (but at least we don't have to worry about it at all!)

 

[wolfslair]

Yeah Iv heard forest could be facing 20pts and Everton a further 6 but there is no credibility to these rumours only what someone within football thinks. Hopefully doesn’t drag on too long we want the last day to be exciting at both ends of the table

To be fair mate, I am hearing it range between 12-20 depending on who I speak to!

The truth of the matter is, no one really knows as the coms that went out to the clubs about the punishments was vague as all hell!!!!

I cannot see from what was/has been told to me, why the clubs who have any ambition who aren’t top 6 signed up to it!!

Apparently no clear answers were given when about sanctions depending on the size of the over spend at the time of it being drawn up initially.

 

[JadeWolf]

If Forest did get deducted 20 points that’s them relegated really.

 

[Wolf316]

If Forest did get deducted 20 points that’s them relegated really.

Fingers crossed then.

 

[Matt]

20 points?! Surely not. That’s insane.

 

[lets all have a disco]

I thought 12 was the maximum....

 

[Pagey]

Got no gripe with heavy punishments for any club that broke the rules, and yes that would include us. Teams were relegated, jobs were lost and everything involved with that. I'd start at 6 points and a point for every 3 million over the limit. **** them.

 

[Oh When the Wolves]

Got no gripe with heavy punishments for any club that broke the rules, and yes that would include us. Teams were relegated, jobs were lost and everything involved with that. I'd start at 6 points and a point for every 3 million over the limit. **** them.

Something definitive is needed

 

[WickedWolfie]

If Forest did get deducted 20 points that’s them relegated really.

Gobb-****e would be spitting mad....

 

[Mugwump]

Thing that annoys me is that these teams could still be playing premier league football with squads they built illegally. Just relegate them.

 

[Macman]

Thing that annoys me is that these teams could still be playing premier league football with squads they built illegally. Just relegate them.

This is my thoughts too. I hope they both get the massive deductions and both get relegated this season. Burnley and Sheffield can fight for the last relegation place.

 

[WW1963]

So they don’t find out next week what their punishment is, they find out the date when they’ll find out what their punishment is. Why does it take so long?

The case has to be absolutely watertight. One tiny mistake, however small, could see the case thrown out on a technicality. Or perhaps a mistake could be discovered a few years down the line, with Forest languishing in League One but with grounds to sue for loss of revenue.

A mistake could cost the prosecution hundreds of millions. That makes me think how much the FA should be careful when going after Man City.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

To be fair mate, I am hearing it range between 12-20 depending on who I speak to!

The truth of the matter is, no one really knows as the coms that went out to the clubs about the punishments was vague as all hell!!!!

I cannot see from what was/has been told to me, why the clubs who have any ambition who aren’t top 6 signed up to it!!

Apparently no clear answers were given when about sanctions depending on the size of the over spend at the time of it being drawn up initially.

20 is surely mad though, that would imply a 20-6=14 14x5=£70m overspend. That doesn't make any sense to me, especially given the 'Brennan Johnson excuse'. Somewhere around 12 would be likely to me. Everton knew they'd overspent last season, so they could have sorted it out in the summer, so no sympathy there, they're probably closer, so maybe 8 points.

That leaves currently....

Luton 20
Burnley 13
Sheffield U 13
Forest 12
Everton 11

So Burnley and Sheff U and one of Forest or Everton to go in all likelihood.

 

[wolfslair]

20 is surely mad though, that would imply a 20-6=14 14x5=£70m overspend. That doesn't make any sense to me, especially given the 'Brennan Johnson excuse'. Somewhere around 12 would be likely to me. Everton knew they'd overspent last season, so they could have sorted it out in the summer, so no sympathy there, they're probably closer, so maybe 8 points.

That leaves currently....

Luton 20
Burnley 13
Sheffield U 13
Forest 12
Everton 11

So Burnley and Sheff U and one of Forest or Everton to go in all likelihood.

That’s what I mean mate! It is crazy and no one really knows what to expect…..

How can you have a system to control a sport and its spending that the methodology and rules are explicitly clear, but the punishments are as clear as mud……

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

That’s what I mean mate! It is crazy and no one really knows what to expect…..

How can you have a system to control a sport and its spending that the methodology and rules are explicitly clear, but the punishments are as clear as mud……

Well I think that was certainly the case 12 months ago, but now I think it's established as 6+1 point per £5m, so the confusion is only about the size of breach and what does and doesn't count as spending. I really expected that the size of the breaches would have been announced when they were charged. To a layman like me there really doesn't seem to be a justification or explanation of why the whole process takes so long. It feels more like a negotiation that establishment of facts.

 

[topcat99]

I just don’t understand the thinking behind Forest spending.

It was like a drunken gambler in a casino, knowing that it would come back to bite