Fletcher, Doyle, Jarvis to stay

[MobNet Wolf]

Understandably, based on the absolute cluster-$$$$ of a season we have had, there is a lot of pessimism on here about the close season. But I feel perhaps we need to look at things more objectively, without our negative Wolves-tinted glasses on, and consider the possibility that there won't be an exodus from Molineux this summer.

As I said on a previous thread, a player's value is dependent on his club's need to sell. We have no financial need to sell. We are debt free, well run, and the reduction in earnings that the Championship will bring will be somewhat offset by the fact that we have wisely incorporated relegation wage reduction clauses in the player's contracts.

The next factor is Jez. We know that for all his faults, Jez is at his best when squeezing every last penny out of clubs trying to buy our players. I see no reason for this not to be the case this summer. Sure, we may hold discussions as to Fletcher's value, but can you see Jez accepting a paltry £8m? He will demand to be blown out of the water, and I don't see many clubs willing to do that.

Also consider Morgan, he will be a wounded animal at the moment. His pride has taken a hit. The best way to reinstore that pride is to stand firm, make a statement to the Championship, and keep our best players. I would be very surprised and disappointed if he were to encourage Jez to accept bids.

It must also be remembered that times have changed slightly. There was a period in which relegated clubs were cherry-picked. While this still goes on to an extent, we have seen less of it in recent years, especially when larger clubs are relegated. Consider Newcastle and West Ham - both in a far perilous financial situation too.

Finally, Fletcher, Doyle and Jarvis still have years left to run on their contracts. Even if they want out, short of pulling a Henri Camara, to sell or not remains the club's choice. If they want to put themselves in the shop window by tearing up the Championship on our behalf, that is fine by me.

Keep them, and we come back up. The club knows that, I therefore can't see them being given up easily.

 

[Bostin]

Morgan may have pride, but don't forget that first and foremost he's a businessman.

The ideal time to sell would be January, because we'd have had half a season with our top players. If we're pushing for promotion, they will probably stay, if not we can pretty much demand what we want from struggling Premiership teams desperate for firepower.

 

[wolvesjoe]

I always had mobnet down for a more sensible poster, but was surprised at his take on this one.

They are going to raise funds and cut wages. It's a key part of Morgan's approach, as he has reiterated many times. The only way they are not going is if no-one wants to buy them, which is doubtful.

 

[Big Saft Kid]

No chance. Fletcher and Doyle in particular will want out; not sure about Jarvis. It is totally pointless and self-defeating keeping players to their contracts if they don't want to play for you, and I have the impression that that is probably the case with Fletcher and Doyle. The club will therefore cash in if they can, and sell to any reasonable bidder. It makes sense in the circumstances.

 

[dazmanwolf]

The way Mick is talking about Fletcher, I believe there maybe a clause in his contract allowing him to leave if we are relegated. I should think a few of our so-called 'stars' have this option.

 

[Wolves in Limerick]

The new manager will want to stamp his own authority on the club. He will almost certainly have players he will want to buy in/positions he will want to strengthen. I expect whoever comes in will be having a long hard look at our defence in particular. He may well wish to hold onto the bigger names, but some will want to leave, to further their careers in the Premiership. The club are better placed than most relegated clubs to hold onto these, but ultimately these players may wish to move to further their careers. They may remain with us until the January window to see how matters are progressing.

 

[Hatch End]

I hope, that whoever the manager is going to be, he's already watching our games to assess the existing squad.

Apparently Megson is doing so......................agh!

 

[Japan Wulf]

They are going to raise funds and cut wages. It's a key part of Morgan's approach, as he has reiterated many times.

My take is that we will sell either if they want to go, or if we get an offer we can't refuse.
I don't remember Morgan ever saying that he intended to raise funds and cut wages, never mind reiterating such.
Could be wrong, but that's as I see it.

 

[Burton Wolf]

Very good post Mobnet I enjoyed reading it.

 

[Phitsanulok (Poole) Wolf]

Doyle said he was staying in SSN yesterday.
As Jez is highly risk averse we won't be getting a young and up and coming manager. So as a short term expedient it may be worth getting a short term manager to get us back up. If you take away Mick and Warnock that essentially leaves Megson or Bruce. I would dismiss Curbishly out of hand as too soft and not a driver of teams. Out of Bruce and Megson I would prefer the latter as he has a record of stabilising clubs. We can then look for a Solskjaer if we gat back to the Prem.

 

[MobNet Wolf]

I always had mobnet down for a more sensible poster, but was surprised at his take on this one.

They are going to raise funds and cut wages. It's a key part of Morgan's approach, as he has reiterated many times. The only way they are not going is if no-one wants to buy them, which is doubtful.

I'm sorry to have disappointed WolvesJoe.

Your last paragraph is based on nothing except the voices in your head though mate.

 

[MobNet Wolf]

No chance. Fletcher and Doyle in particular will want out; not sure about Jarvis. It is totally pointless and self-defeating keeping players to their contracts if they don't want to play for you, and I have the impression that that is probably the case with Fletcher and Doyle. The club will therefore cash in if they can, and sell to any reasonable bidder. It makes sense in the circumstances.

See here I disagree.

Just because players have the capability to pull a Henri Camara and force their club to sell, does not mean they exercise that power.

It is probably 100% true that Doyle/Fletcher are hardly relishing the prospect of playing in the Championship next season, but that does not make their contracts worthless.

For every player who exercises their Tevez right to belligerence, there are probably 100, despite wanting out, remain professional. You obviously only hear about the former though. Hence we get this warped impression of player power.

They may have the power, but can you see those three exercising it in such a manner?

 

[Hoganstolemywife]

Good post and I see your point, but we will have to make some cutbacks, albeit nowhere near as many as other teams will - and nowhere near as many as some fans may fear.

I'd be surprised if we manage to keep 2 of the 3, but equally surprised if we sell all 3.

 

[Japan Wulf]

It is totally pointless and self-defeating keeping players to their contracts if they don't want to play for you...

Absolutely right. But let's wait until they actually ask for a transfer request, because unless they have a release clause in their contracts, that's what it should come to. I have no problem with any player wanting to stay in the PL but if we have to lose our better players I would appreciate a bit of transparency from both the club and the players involved.

 

[Deleted member 4023]

Take your fans hats off - imagine you're a player. Which league would you prefer to be playing in. EXACTLY. Loyalty doesn't exist these days. This is the reality of the greed league.

 

[FLEET WOLF]

No chance. Fletcher and Doyle in particular will want out; not sure about Jarvis. It is totally pointless and self-defeating keeping players to their contracts if they don't want to play for you, and I have the impression that that is probably the case with Fletcher and Doyle. The club will therefore cash in if they can, and sell to any reasonable bidder. It makes sense in the circumstances.

Spot on.

 

[Big Saft Kid]

See here I disagree.

Just because players have the capability to pull a Henri Camara and force their club to sell, does not mean they exercise that power.

It is probably 100% true that Doyle/Fletcher are hardly relishing the prospect of playing in the Championship next season, but that does not make their contracts worthless.

For every player who exercises their Tevez right to belligerence, there are probably 100, despite wanting out, remain professional. You obviously only hear about the former though. Hence we get this warped impression of player power.

They may have the power, but can you see those three exercising it in such a manner?

Who said anything about Tevez? That's a daft analogy. Are you telling me that if a Prem club came in for Doyle, Fletch or Jarvo, and offered the club reasonable money, that the club wouldn't accept it, or that the players would say 'no, I want to stay here, in the Champ'? Get real. Players want to play in the Prem and they want the bigger salaries that playing in the Prem commands, wouldn' t you? The days of SGB-type loyalty have long gone.

 

[MobNet Wolf]

Take your fans hats off - imagine you're a player. Which league would you prefer to be playing in. EXACTLY. Loyalty doesn't exist these days. This is the reality of the greed league.

But the fan hats work both ways, and I think in your case your hat is making you extra pessimistic.

Your points don't follow from each other.

Which league would a player prefer to play in? The PL - absolutely, I said as much in a previous point.

But preferring to playing in another league does not equate to disloyalty.

Disloyalty is the action upon that preference. Throwing toys out of the pram as it were. I don't think we will see that from our players.

I'm sure we've all thought about swapping our jobs, or thought we may prefer it elsewhere for a time. That in itself, just having a preference, doesn't make us disloyal to our current employer as long as we still work at our best.

 

[Gornal]

I'm sorry to have disappointed WolvesJoe.

Your last paragraph is based on nothing except the voices in your head though mate.

Income is going to be £34Million less next season. How about explaining how this is going to be covered without player sales? I think you are the one that is in a dream world

 

[Gornal]

But the fan hats work both ways, and I think in your case your hat is making you extra pessimistic.

Your points don't follow from each other.

Which league would a player prefer to play in? The PL - absolutely, I said as much in a previous point.

But preferring to playing in another league does not equate to disloyalty.

Disloyalty is the action upon that preference. Throwing toys out of the pram as it were. I don't think we will see that from our players.

I'm sure we've all thought about swapping our jobs, or thought we may prefer it elsewhere for a time. That in itself, just having a preference, doesn't make us disloyal to our current employer as long as we still work at our best.

The players are also being asked to take a pay cut (maybe 50%?). If your boss told you that your wage were being reduced would you not think about finding a job elsewhere where the pay cut would not be necessary? Get in the real world!!

 

[MobNet Wolf]

Who said anything about Tevez? That's a daft analogy. Are you telling me that if a Prem club came in for Doyle, Fletch or Jarvo, and offered the club reasonable money, that the club wouldn't accept it, or that the players would say 'no, I want to stay here, in the Champ'? Get real. Players want to play in the Prem and they want the bigger salaries that playing in the Prem commands, wouldn' t you? The days of SGB-type loyalty have long gone.

Your analysis is flawed.

The club will only accept an offer that they deem sufficient. Such offers will have to be significant.

You then make out like the players have to 'opt-in' to the Championship. Complete nonsense. They have to very publically 'opt-out' if they don't want to stay, and I cannot see that happening. Any personal preference, remains as such.

 

[WalsallWolf]

Never going to happen. They will all be gone by mid-July latest.

 

[MobNet Wolf]

The players are also being asked to take a pay cut (maybe 50%?). If your boss told you that your wage were being reduced would you not think about finding a job elsewhere where the pay cut would not be necessary? Get in the real world!!

It's funny that you should mention the real world, because these players don't live in it. They live in a performance industry in which from day one they have known their pay is linked to their performance. So a pay cut to a footballer is hardly the outrage that it is to you or me.

But I agree with you partially, so again, I'll restate my position. They probably would PREFER to be elsewhere. But this preference does not equate to them leaving. It just doesn't.

I bet Carlton Cole would have preferred not to have played in the Championship this season. I bet if the club had accepted an offer for him from a PL club, he might have left. But they didn't, so he hasn't.

 

[MobNet Wolf]

Never going to happen. They will all be gone by mid-July latest.

Like Scott Parker?

 

[MobNet Wolf]

Income is going to be £34Million less next season. How about explaining how this is going to be covered without player sales? I think you are the one that is in a dream world

If the club is serious about promotion, it cannot attempt to recoup the entire £34m.

The club will run at a deficit next year. But that is the whole point of being debt free now, and having been well run. We can afford to run at a deficit next year, in order to try and take advantage of the single best opportunity of promotion - that is at the first attempt.

 

[Dorset DeWolf]

Doyle will definitely go, at a guess i'd say Reading, and personally I couldnt give a $$$$

 

[Gornal]

It's funny that you should mention the real world, because these players don't live in it. They live in a performance industry in which from day one they have known their pay is linked to their performance. So a pay cut to a footballer is hardly the outrage that it is to you or me.

But I agree with you partially, so again, I'll restate my position. They probably would PREFER to be elsewhere. But this preference does not equate to them leaving. It just doesn't.

I bet Carlton Cole would have preferred not to have played in the Championship this season. I bet if the club had accepted an offer for him from a PL club, he might have left. But they didn't, so he hasn't.

West Ham are bankrolled by the porn barons and spend far more than their income should allow. I'm not aware that Carlton Cole took a pay cut this season. Are you? The biggest reason i am not agreeing with you is not the potential loyalty or disloyalty of the players but the simple economic fact that Wolves income will be £34 Million less next season. Where is that money going to come from? Some will come from the wage cuts but that will probably about half of it at most. Where will the rest come from because it can pretty much be guaranteed that Morgan won't bankroll it?

 

[MobNet Wolf]

See my post above. It is nonsense and frankly unrealistic to think the club has to recoup the entire £34m.

 

[Hoganstolemywife]

Doyle said he was staying in SSN yesterday.
As Jez is highly risk averse we won't be getting a young and up and coming manager. So as a short term expedient it may be worth getting a short term manager to get us back up. If you take away Mick and Warnock that essentially leaves Megson or Bruce. I would dismiss Curbishly out of hand as too soft and not a driver of teams. Out of Bruce and Megson I would prefer the latter as he has a record of stabilising clubs. We can then look for a Solskjaer if we gat back to the Prem.

Did he?
What exactly did he say?

 

[wolvesjoe]

I dont think you have been listening very well to what our great leader has said on numerous occasions, Mobnet.

Clubs have to live within their means!!! That is what he believes.

So given that the club are going to be around 30-35m next year, how else is he going to balance the books?? There is also the little matter of completing a rather major project of rebuilding the stadium. Given that it was announced that this will be largely self-financing through club revenues, how is that money going to be raised??

You need to answer these kind of questions, before anyone takes your fantasy football seriously.

 

[SaleWolf]

The OP views are based mainly upon the assumption that Morgan changes his whole ethos. Which by and large, this last 12 months has been, lets do things on the cheap and build as many houses as possible.

Your assumption that Morgan knows anything about football and the potentially vital part that players like Fletcher, Doyle and Jarvis could have in the Championship, is purely that, a naive assumption.

Morgan has been naive in the extreme this year. Banking on the promoted clubs being weak and taking his eye off the ball and concetrating on the white elephant that is the new Northbank or should i say, Northbank plus 500 seats that will be blocked by the corner of the Steve Bull stand!

I fully expect Morgan and Moxey to not learn from their catostrophic mistakes of this season and sell our best players. Moxey is interested in two things, his bonus and making a profit. Morgan seems to be completely taken in by Moxey and seems very weak, misguided, indecisive and footballing wise, completely clueless.

We'll see but my own assumption is they'll carry on with their current strategy, do everything on the cheap. Which, i'm afraid will inevitably mean, we sell our best players, appoint a dinosaur along the lines of Megson and sign dross like Eggert Jonsson, Dave Edwards and George Elokobi.

Hope i'm wrong though.

 

[MobNet Wolf]

I dont think you have been listening very well to what our great leader has said on numerous occasions, Mobnet.

Clubs have to live within their means!!! That is what he believes.

So given that the club are going to be around 30-35m next year, how else is he going to balance the books?? There is also the little matter of completing a rather major project of rebuilding the stadium. Given that it was announced that this will be largely self-financing through club revenues, how is that money going to be raised??

You need to answer these kind of questions, before anyone takes your fantasy football seriously.

We will run at a deficit next season. No doubt. That isn't a disaster. It is the very reason we have been well run, it allows us to swallow a deficit and readjust slowly based on reduced incomes.

I'll repeat, it is nonsense to suggest we need to recoup every penny of lost revenue.

 

[Gornal]

See my post above. It is nonsense and frankly unrealistic to think the club has to recoup the entire £34m.

So you are expecting something like a £20 million deficit to be put into the playing staff either by Morgan or by loans/overdraft for a season of championship football when they weren't prepared to make that sort of investment in order to preserve premiership football and income?

 

[Hoganstolemywife]

We will run at a deficit next season. No doubt. That isn't a disaster. It is the very reason we have been well run, it allows us to swallow a deficit and readjust slowly based on reduced incomes.

I'll repeat, it is nonsense to suggest we need to recoup every penny of lost revenue.

Indeed.

Our wage bill is around £45 million now, conservative estimates would say it'll be down to £27 million following relegation (that's a sub 50% pay cut for everybody).

Certain players will almost certainly leave: Milijas for instance.

We'll have to sell at least one of our better players to make the deficit manageable and to allow for incoming transfers, of which I'm sure we'll make a few.

But, as MobNet says, next season will be one in which we take a big financial hit as a club in order to gamble upon immediate promotion. We won't be insolvent if it doesn't work out - or anything approaching that - but we would need to make concessions in the summer of 2013 if we failed to win promotion.

There's absolutely no reason to cut costs to such an extent that we make a profit next season; it would be illogical and would actively hinder any promotion push.

 

[Gornal]

Indeed.

Our wage bill is around £45 million now, conservative estimates would say it'll be down to £27 million following relegation (that's a sub 50% pay cut for everybody).

Certain players will almost certainly leave: Milijas for instance.

We'll have to sell at least one of our better players to make the deficit manageable and to allow for incoming transfers, of which I'm sure we'll make a few.

But, as MobNet says, next season will be one in which we take a big financial hit as a club in order to gamble upon immediate promotion. We won't be insolvent if it doesn't work out - or anything approaching that - but we would need to make concessions in the summer of 2013 if we failed to win promotion.

There's absolutely no reason to cut costs to such an extent that we make a profit next season; it would be illogical and would actively hinder any promotion push.

Why will they invest to get promoted when they wouldn't invest to stay in the premier league?

 

[Hoganstolemywife]

They did invest to stay in the Premier League, spending about £45 million in transfer fees and about the same on the yearly wage budget.

It just - in retrospect - hasn't been invested too well.

 

[MobNet Wolf]

Why will they invest to get promoted when they wouldn't invest to stay in the premier league?

Well it's more passive investment - aka investment to which they have NO choice. A reduction in earnings is unavoidable.

In the PL, investment had to be active, they had to go out there and spend. They believed they could get away without as much spending as turned out was needed. And they learned the hard way.

 

[Gibo]

I hope, that whoever the manager is going to be, he's already watching our games to assess the existing squad.

Apparently Megson is doing so......................agh!

Megson is scouting for Villa these days.

 

[Gornal]

Well it's more passive investment - aka investment to which they have NO choice. A reduction in earnings is unavoidable.

In the PL, investment had to be active, they had to go out there and spend. They believed they could get away without as much spending as turned out was needed. And they learned the hard way.

But they can reduce the deficit by selling assets. This is the path i fully expect them to take.

 

[Gornal]

They did invest to stay in the Premier League, spending about £45 million in transfer fees and about the same on the yearly wage budget.

It just - in retrospect - hasn't been invested too well.

That wasn't investment though. It was spending the clubs income. The income won't be there next season though. To cover this it will need either investment from Morgan or bank loans or the selling of assets. I can't see Morgan investing, bank loans will reduce the value of the club and so the most likely path will be the selling of assets