Fabio Silva - value for money???

[Highlandwolf2]

Neither have I. But then again, I've only seen him at a level he's clearly not ready for. The type of player he is, which is obviously a poacher, judging on his record at youth level, doesnt necessary have stand out attributes. Player like Kane, Lewandowski, and others didnt really looked out of the ordinary at the same age. Yet, we all know how they turned out, as that natural predator instinct was developed..
Silva must have some of that same instinct, because he wasnt just a good youth striker. He was one of Europes leading strikers at his age group.
Dont get me wrong. I still think it was absolutely insane to pay that sort of money for him for a club in our position, with our needs and our limited finances. All I'm saying is, that at youth level, there was a lot of hype around him, and for good reason, He really did stand out among his peers.

If he is a natural goal scorer he might not necessarily need the attributes normally associated with top players. They are a breed apart. However not seen any evidence of this as yet - here’s hoping.

 

[SoCal_Wolf]

Neither have I. But then again, I've only seen him at a level he's clearly not ready for. The type of player he is, which is obviously a poacher, judging on his record at youth level, doesnt necessary have stand out attributes. Player like Kane, Lewandowski, and others didnt really looked out of the ordinary at the same age. Yet, we all know how they turned out, as that natural predator instinct was developed..
Silva must have some of that same instinct, because he wasnt just a good youth striker. He was one of Europes leading strikers at his age group.
Dont get me wrong. I still think it was absolutely insane to pay that sort of money for him for a club in our position, with our needs and our limited finances. All I'm saying is, that at youth level, there was a lot of hype around him, and for good reason, He really did stand out among his peers.

I bolded the crux of the argument surrounding Fabio.

1. He is/was considered one of the leading strikers of his age group.
2. He was not supposed to be playing much at all during his first year - some cup games, 5 minutes here, 10 minutes there. Why? Because he's clearly not physically ready for the Premier League. No shame in that at 18-19 years old. And, of course he doesn't look like a 35 million pound player yet - Jesus. This price point is purely speculative based on potential!
3. His transfer most definitely was a calculated gamble by the club (Shi) - looking at what happened with Felix, I think this definitely pushed his transfer sooner rather than later.
4. The biggest debatable issue that has nothing to do with Fabio is whether the club should have invested in this transfer at that point point in time, given the first XI needs. We do have the benefit of hindsight in that the worst possible thing happened - we suffered an injury to Raul (and other key first team players). We will have to see whether or not this was a prudent investment - it's an empirical question at this point.

I really wish people would lay off the kid and let him develop without bringing up this argument time and again about his transfer fee and how he doesn't look like Wayne Rooney at the same age (who does? guy is ugly as sin). Anyway, Fabio's very best qualities are: character, positioning and movement, and link-up play.

Character
The kid works his socks off in training, off-hours, and on the pitch and he is a born leader and supportive teammate. He always acknowledges the crowd, too. He doesn't shy away from challenges--metaphorically or literally. Took the penalty in the rain and buried, for example. And addressed the media after one of our losses. He has never, ever hid, even though he was out-matched physically on the pitch. Clearly, he is doing the work to become stronger and faster as it's been a noticeable change in his play.

Positioning and Movement
Whatever you say about Fabio, the kid ALWAYS gets in position to score in every game. He doesn't put them away (yet), but you can't argue against him having a knack of getting shots! He moves into good positions on the field, ready to receive the ball or make runs into the box (which the CMs inevitably ignore). Once he becomes stronger and more confident, he'll be able to maintain his balance better and keep his composure to bang those misses in.

Link-Up Play
Fabio has good awareness/vision of players around him and plays really nice flicks and one-twos with his teammates. We just don't make these moves very often yet. I think that Bruno is trying to get us to do it more (rather than the drive and cross technique that Nuno was big on). Fabio is an intelligent footballer and he will work well with good technical players like Podence and Trincao (and probably Neto). Again, added strength will help him in this area, too, which will allow him to hold off defenders better.

What does Fabio need to improve? Strength, pace (not a ton more, but he needs better acceleration), and heading ability. The good news? All of these things can be worked on with dedication and training (and perhaps some physical growth thrown in). He will get better, I've no doubt. Will he be worth 100 million or more? Maybe not. But he will be worth what we paid for him - if we're willing to be patient. With this lot on the MolMix - I'll not hold my breath.

He definitely wasn't the one who lost the Cup game so it seems weird to start blasting the kid again. I would look at our established veteran players to blame, like Coady and Neves, not Fabio.

 

[Coshamwolves]

Hav`nt trawled through this thread, but obvs he needs time, he`s only 19. Nobody knows really, but i think he needs a loan in the next window, unless he can bag a couple coming on as a sub.

 

[NJWolves69]

I bolded the crux of the argument surrounding Fabio.

1. He is/was considered one of the leading strikers of his age group.
2. He was not supposed to be playing much at all during his first year - some cup games, 5 minutes here, 10 minutes there. Why? Because he's clearly not physically ready for the Premier League. No shame in that at 18-19 years old. And, of course he doesn't look like a 35 million pound player yet - Jesus. This price point is purely speculative based on potential!
3. His transfer most definitely was a calculated gamble by the club (Shi) - looking at what happened with Felix, I think this definitely pushed his transfer sooner rather than later.
4. The biggest debatable issue that has nothing to do with Fabio is whether the club should have invested in this transfer at that point point in time, given the first XI needs. We do have the benefit of hindsight in that the worst possible thing happened - we suffered an injury to Raul (and other key first team players). We will have to see whether or not this was a prudent investment - it's an empirical question at this point.

I really wish people would lay off the kid and let him develop without bringing up this argument time and again about his transfer fee and how he doesn't look like Wayne Rooney at the same age (who does? guy is ugly as sin). Anyway, Fabio's very best qualities are: character, positioning and movement, and link-up play.

Character
The kid works his socks off in training, off-hours, and on the pitch and he is a born leader and supportive teammate. He always acknowledges the crowd, too. He doesn't shy away from challenges--metaphorically or literally. Took the penalty in the rain and buried, for example. And addressed the media after one of our losses. He has never, ever hid, even though he was out-matched physically on the pitch. Clearly, he is doing the work to become stronger and faster as it's been a noticeable change in his play.

Positioning and Movement
Whatever you say about Fabio, the kid ALWAYS gets in position to score in every game. He doesn't put them away (yet), but you can't argue against him having a knack of getting shots! He moves into good positions on the field, ready to receive the ball or make runs into the box (which the CMs inevitably ignore). Once he becomes stronger and more confident, he'll be able to maintain his balance better and keep his composure to bang those misses in.

Link-Up Play
Fabio has good awareness/vision of players around him and plays really nice flicks and one-twos with his teammates. We just don't make these moves very often yet. I think that Bruno is trying to get us to do it more (rather than the drive and cross technique that Nuno was big on). Fabio is an intelligent footballer and he will work well with good technical players like Podence and Trincao (and probably Neto). Again, added strength will help him in this area, too, which will allow him to hold off defenders better.

What does Fabio need to improve? Strength, pace (not a ton more, but he needs better acceleration), and heading ability. The good news? All of these things can be worked on with dedication and training (and perhaps some physical growth thrown in). He will get better, I've no doubt. Will he be worth 100 million or more? Maybe not. But he will be worth what we paid for him - if we're willing to be patient. With this lot on the MolMix - I'll not hold my breath.

He definitely wasn't the one who lost the Cup game so it seems weird to start blasting the kid again. I would look at our established veteran players to blame, like Coady and Neves, not Fabio.

Not that having strong character isn't an important trait, but when that's your best attribute I think that's an indictment on your talent as a professional. And in terms of his link-up/positioning, yeah he's shown glimpses of quality in those areas but not on a consistent basis at all. More often than not he's looked completely overmatched at this level. I think you're minimizing the amount of work he needs to even become a decent player, let alone be worth his price tag. But yes, he appears to be a hard worker and time is definitely on his side.

I don't think anyone is singlehandedly blaming Fabio for losing the Cup game, he's subject to criticism just like Neves/Coady. With his price tag comes bigger responsibility/expectation, that's just the way it works. He will and should always be held to a higher standard than just an ordinary kid in the youth academy.

And hindsight is irrelevant in regards to this transfer/Raul's injury. Even if Raul stayed healthy, that is still 35M that went towards a project player instead of improving the first team on the back of a second consecutive 7th place season. Yes we saw the worst case scenario unfold, but it wasn't a smart move nonetheless.

 

[SoCal_Wolf]

Not that having strong character isn't an important trait, but when that's your best attribute I think that's an indictment on your talent as a professional. And in terms of his link-up/positioning, yeah he's shown glimpses of quality in those areas but not on a consistent basis at all. More often than not he's looked completely overmatched at this level. I think you're minimizing the amount of work he needs to even become a decent player, let alone be worth his price tag. But yes, he appears to be a hard worker and time is definitely on his side.

Character (i.e., work ethic, drive, motivation, determination, leadership, heart) may be even more important the higher you go in the professional sports career. It's what delineates between greatness and also-rans (see, for example, Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell). Renaldo is a great example where is drive and work ethic really pushed him on to greatness. Don't get me wrong, he is very talented and you definitely need talent to make it as a pro footballer with longevity. But, I wouldn't poo-poo the importance of these other more psychological traits.

I don't think anyone is singlehandedly blaming Fabio for losing the Cup game, he's subject to criticism just like Neves/Coady. With his price tag comes bigger responsibility/expectation, that's just the way it works. He will and should always be held to a higher standard than just an ordinary kid in the youth academy.

No, it's not just the way it works that the usual crowd just jumps on certain players when we have a loss. Some regularly jump on Traore, while others love to single out Semedo (too bad for them that he didn't play long enough to catch some blame).

And hindsight is irrelevant in regards to this transfer/Raul's injury. Even if Raul stayed healthy, that is still 35M that went towards a project player instead of improving the first team on the back of a second consecutive 7th place season. Yes we saw the worst case scenario unfold, but it wasn't a smart move nonetheless.

The hindsight makes it seem right now that it was a stupid move. The Fabio transfer is a long-term investment; we won't know if it was a smart move until some more time passes. And I've acknowledged that it was a gamble by the club, full-stop. I'm willing to be patient with a 19 year-old and not jump on him when he can't hold off good PL defenders, like grown men do (Raul or Kane or Lewandowski).

Even Mason Greenwood disappears in whole games and he has even better talent around him! Btw, Fabio's PL season last compares to Greenwood's:

	Starts	Minutes	Goals	Assists	Goals/90	Assists/90	xG/90	xG+xA/90	Shot-Creating Actions
Fabio	11	15.2	4	3	0.26	0.20	0.40	0.43	2.03
Greenwood	21	20.2	7	2	0.35	0.10	0.37	0.45	2.54

Pretty damn comparable...and let's be honest, Wolves were terrible offensively last year; ManU were not. Also note, Fabio should have scored even more, based on the xG, and but for a lucky reaction save up close, he should have had at least one more. Certainly, he did just fine in the second half of the season last year, for a teenager.

 

[Hoganstolemywife]

Generational talent says Shi.
Mason Greenwood... there's a generational talent.

Absolutely. Bellingham too. Silva is not on their level (yet)

 

[The Wolf In The North]

A good thing about this thread is that more and more people are separating the transfer itself, and money involved, from Silva as a player.

The transfer was a fraud. It existed solely to financially benefit certain parties involved. It didn't benefit the club, directly the opposite. It was shocking.

Silva as a player is not a generational talent; Shi, as most people do from time to time, was talking *******s. He's a decent young player who will develop and who has good positioning and intelligence, but nothing overly special about him. Time will tell what level he'll reach.

But his cost wasn't his fault, it has no bearing on his ability or potential, and it helps no one, especially him, to think of him as a £35m player. He isn't, and possibly never will be But what's done is done, and I hope - as everyone does, I think - that he'll become a good player and an asset for us.

The transfer itself can't be defended. It was at best indulgent and negligent, and at worst a murky misappropration of club money for individual gain.

 

[NJWolves69]

The hindsight makes it seem right now that it was a stupid move. The Fabio transfer is a long-term investment; we won't know if it was a smart move until some more time passes. And I've acknowledged that it was a gamble by the club, full-stop. I'm willing to be patient with a 19 year-old and not jump on him when he can't hold off good PL defenders, like grown men do (Raul or Kane or Lewandowski).

Even Mason Greenwood disappears in whole games and he has even better talent around him! Btw, Fabio's PL season last compares to Greenwood's:

	Starts	Minutes	Goals	Assists	Goals/90	Assists/90	xG/90	xG+xA/90	Shot-Creating Actions
Fabio	11	15.2	4	3	0.26	0.20	0.40	0.43	2.03
Greenwood	21	20.2	7	2	0.35	0.10	0.37	0.45	2.54

Pretty damn comparable...and let's be honest, Wolves were terrible offensively last year; ManU were not. Also note, Fabio should have scored even more, based on the xG, and but for a lucky reaction save up close, he should have had at least one more. Certainly, he did just fine in the second half of the season last year, for a teenager.

Under no circumstance was it a smart move to spend the majority of our transfer budget on a long term investment. We didn't and still obviously don't have the talent nor the resources to take a 35M gamble on an 18 year old with no senior experience. Again, we had a chance to build on two straight successful Prem seasons and we failed. Even if you think he'll come good in the next 2-3 years, we've still wasted an opportunity at sustained success.

And I've seen this Greenwood/Fabio chart before and I know their stats might not be worlds apart, but their talents are. The eye test does not lie. There isn't a single thing Fabio does better than Greenwood.

 

[Mr Sizzle]

100% this transfer is going to be investigated in a BBC Panorama type documentary into corruption in football.

Thought it was in the press in the summer the signing was being investigated by Portuguese authorities . Not sure what was being alleged.

 

[Deleted member 6206]

A good thing about this thread is that more and more people are separating the transfer itself, and money involved, from Silva as a player.

The transfer was a fraud. It existed solely to financially benefit certain parties involved. It didn't benefit the club, directly the opposite. It was shocking.

Silva as a player is not a generational talent; Shi, as most people do from time to time, was talking *******s. He's a decent young player who will develop and who has good positioning and intelligence, but nothing overly special about him. Time will tell what level he'll reach.

But his cost wasn't his fault, it has no bearing on his ability or potential, and it helps no one, especially him, to think of him as a £35m player. He isn't, and possibly never will be But what's done is done, and I hope - as everyone does, I think - that he'll become a good player and an asset for us.

The transfer itself can't be defended. It was at best indulgent and negligent, and at worst a murky misappropration of club money for individual gain.

The best post I have read so far on the Silva debate

 

[SoCal_Wolf]

Under no circumstance was it a smart move to spend the majority of our transfer budget on a long term investment. We didn't and still obviously don't have the talent nor the resources to take a 35M gamble on an 18 year old with no senior experience. Again, we had a chance to build on two straight successful Prem seasons and we failed. Even if you think he'll come good in the next 2-3 years, we've still wasted an opportunity at sustained success.

And I've seen this Greenwood/Fabio chart before and I know their stats might not be worlds apart, but their talents are. The eye test does not lie. There isn't a single thing Fabio does better than Greenwood.

Okay. I guess you're dug into your position and don't want to acknowledge any of my points.

We can argue about the timing of the transfer and whether or not it will have overall negative consequences on Wolves' future. I'm arguing that we don't know yet (and you may be right); you are set on it's stupid and will still be stupid even in 2-3 years. It certainly was a very ballsy move, I grant that point for sure and Shi may end up with egg on his face.

I think that FOSUN and Shi think in longer time frames than fans do and are willing to live with a couple of mediocre seasons (along with some good seasons) as we build a foundation of revenue outside of the first team. That is the only way we will be able to compete in the long-term. Again, maybe it will end in disaster; but so does focusing on short-term spending (and we've seen some spectacular failures in this regard). I've not a Scooby, but I suspect that Shi was laying the foundations for when we need to move on from the current squad - Raul ain't going to last much longer (Silva replaces), Jonny is getting older and the knee (RAN), Semedo will be a good transition (Hoever), etc., etc. Marques (Coady) and Lonwijk (Boly) are destined for the first team if they continue to progress; Mosquera might push for the starting XI by the end of the year...We will have to be mindful of maintaining our PL status, so that is the balancing point--I believe that we have enough talent to do so--just like last year and we played terribly and had a bad injury problem. What I'm saying is: lengthen your horizon a bit (squint if you have to) and it may not look so panic-inducing.

I've mentioned several things that I think that Fabio does better than or just as well as Greenwood backed with stats. Doesn't it make you pause a bit to see that the stats are so similar, but Greenwood has more starts on a more talented, attack-minded team that finished in the top four?

But, you have your own eye test. Again...I can't argue with that because I can't prove you wrong, other than to argue that your eyes maybe don't catch all of the things that scouts and coaches see. Greenwood has more flashy skills--pacier and some rocket goals; Fabio has more nuance and subtlety to his game. Plus, Greenwood is never called on to be a focal point or hold up play. But, you don't want a discussion, do you?

Silva is ****. Shi is ****. And Wolves are **** and destined to be regulated.

 

[NJWolves69]

Okay. I guess you're dug into your position and don't want to acknowledge any of my points.

We can argue about the timing of the transfer and whether or not it will have overall negative consequences on Wolves' future. I'm arguing that we don't know yet (and you may be right); you are set on it's stupid and will still be stupid even in 2-3 years. It certainly was a very ballsy move, I grant that point for sure and Shi may end up with egg on his face.

I think that FOSUN and Shi think in longer time frames than fans do and are willing to live with a couple of mediocre seasons (along with some good seasons) as we build a foundation of revenue outside of the first team. That is the only way we will be able to compete in the long-term. Again, maybe it will end in disaster; but so does focusing on short-term spending (and we've seen some spectacular failures in this regard). I've not a Scooby, but I suspect that Shi was laying the foundations for when we need to move on from the current squad - Raul ain't going to last much longer (Silva replaces), Jonny is getting older and the knee (RAN), Semedo will be a good transition (Hoever), etc., etc. Marques (Coady) and Lonwijk (Boly) are destined for the first team if they continue to progress; Mosquera might push for the starting XI by the end of the year...We will have to be mindful of maintaining our PL status, so that is the balancing point--I believe that we have enough talent to do so--just like last year and we played terribly and had a bad injury problem. What I'm saying is: lengthen your horizon a bit (squint if you have to) and it may not look so panic-inducing.

I've mentioned several things that I think that Fabio does better than or just as well as Greenwood backed with stats. Doesn't it make you pause a bit to see that the stats are so similar, but Greenwood has more starts on a more talented, attack-minded team that finished in the top four?

But, you have your own eye test. Again...I can't argue with that because I can't prove you wrong, other than to argue that your eyes maybe don't catch all of the things that scouts and coaches see. Greenwood has more flashy skills--pacier and some rocket goals; Fabio has more nuance and subtlety to his game. Plus, Greenwood is never called on to be a focal point or hold up play. But, you don't want a discussion, do you?

Silva is ****. Shi is ****. And Wolves are **** and destined to be regulated.

I never said we were **** and destined to be relegated, those are your words. I also think we have enough talent to stay up, but one key injury could make it really dicey and then there's the mental aspect of getting over all the losing that's happened in the past year. It would be arrogant to just assume we're staying up and long term we'll be back to competing for Europe.

And how much time do you think we have to wait for these foundation players to develop and join the first team? Raul could use some help now. We can't really rely on Jonny going forward with back to back ACL injuries - although I'm not as worried about this with RAN/Marcal. Coady needs replacing and Boly's struggled to stay healthy. Not to mention we have 3 senior midfielders, one of which is 36 years old. I agree with you that short-term spending can backfire, but we also could use a few more guys that can contribute right away. Bruno asked repeatedly for "top players" for a reason.

Somehow I'm missing all of Fabio's nuance and subtlety. I guess coaches miss it as well, because he doesn't play much under Bruno and he didn't even make Portugal's Euro U21 team. Greenwood has an England senior cap and regularly starts on a very good team with lots of attacking options. He might not be able to be called on to be a focal point or hold up play, but neither can Fabio. I would be willing to guess the general footballing world (fans, coaches, scouts, players) do not have Fabio in the same class as Greenwood either.

 

[SA Wolf]

A good thing about this thread is that more and more people are separating the transfer itself, and money involved, from Silva as a player.

The transfer was a fraud. It existed solely to financially benefit certain parties involved. It didn't benefit the club, directly the opposite. It was shocking.

Silva as a player is not a generational talent; Shi, as most people do from time to time, was talking *******s. He's a decent young player who will develop and who has good positioning and intelligence, but nothing overly special about him. Time will tell what level he'll reach.

But his cost wasn't his fault, it has no bearing on his ability or potential, and it helps no one, especially him, to think of him as a £35m player. He isn't, and possibly never will be But what's done is done, and I hope - as everyone does, I think - that he'll become a good player and an asset for us.

The transfer itself can't be defended. It was at best indulgent and negligent, and at worst a murky misappropration of club money for individual gain.

I'm not sure that you can separate the fee from the transfer. With that huge fee, comes expectation which is obviously greater than if we'd signed someone for a nominal fee. I was excited at the time, because I believed that we had signed one of the best young strikers in world football, not because Shi said so, but because of the hype surrounding Fabio.
Shi didn't describe Silva as a generational talent, but 'having the potential to become a generational talent'. So far, that potential has not been reached, nor does it look like doing so, any time soon! Silva was also described as a 'prodigy' and a 'wonderkid' at the time, not by Shi, but by others who know far more about football than our chairman. Hence, my being taken in by the hype.
As I said, had we signed a foreign player that I hadn't heard of (I'd never heard of Silva tbf), who immediately went into the U23s and failed, then he would not be getting anywhere near the same amount of posts. It's the fact that we did blow 50% of our transfer budget on an 18 year old who looks anything but 'talented' that is the issue for me. As others have said, for a club like Wolves, that money could and should have been spent more efficiently.

 

[arctic rime]

I bolded the crux of the argument surrounding Fabio.

1. He is/was considered one of the leading strikers of his age group.
2. He was not supposed to be playing much at all during his first year - some cup games, 5 minutes here, 10 minutes there. Why? Because he's clearly not physically ready for the Premier League. No shame in that at 18-19 years old. And, of course he doesn't look like a 35 million pound player yet - Jesus. This price point is purely speculative based on potential!
3. His transfer most definitely was a calculated gamble by the club (Shi) - looking at what happened with Felix, I think this definitely pushed his transfer sooner rather than later.
4. The biggest debatable issue that has nothing to do with Fabio is whether the club should have invested in this transfer at that point point in time, given the first XI needs. We do have the benefit of hindsight in that the worst possible thing happened - we suffered an injury to Raul (and other key first team players). We will have to see whether or not this was a prudent investment - it's an empirical question at this point.

I really wish people would lay off the kid and let him develop without bringing up this argument time and again about his transfer fee and how he doesn't look like Wayne Rooney at the same age (who does? guy is ugly as sin). Anyway, Fabio's very best qualities are: character, positioning and movement, and link-up play.

Character
The kid works his socks off in training, off-hours, and on the pitch and he is a born leader and supportive teammate. He always acknowledges the crowd, too. He doesn't shy away from challenges--metaphorically or literally. Took the penalty in the rain and buried, for example. And addressed the media after one of our losses. He has never, ever hid, even though he was out-matched physically on the pitch. Clearly, he is doing the work to become stronger and faster as it's been a noticeable change in his play.

Positioning and Movement
Whatever you say about Fabio, the kid ALWAYS gets in position to score in every game. He doesn't put them away (yet), but you can't argue against him having a knack of getting shots! He moves into good positions on the field, ready to receive the ball or make runs into the box (which the CMs inevitably ignore). Once he becomes stronger and more confident, he'll be able to maintain his balance better and keep his composure to bang those misses in.

Link-Up Play
Fabio has good awareness/vision of players around him and plays really nice flicks and one-twos with his teammates. We just don't make these moves very often yet. I think that Bruno is trying to get us to do it more (rather than the drive and cross technique that Nuno was big on). Fabio is an intelligent footballer and he will work well with good technical players like Podence and Trincao (and probably Neto). Again, added strength will help him in this area, too, which will allow him to hold off defenders better.

What does Fabio need to improve? Strength, pace (not a ton more, but he needs better acceleration), and heading ability. The good news? All of these things can be worked on with dedication and training (and perhaps some physical growth thrown in). He will get better, I've no doubt. Will he be worth 100 million or more? Maybe not. But he will be worth what we paid for him - if we're willing to be patient. With this lot on the MolMix - I'll not hold my breath.

He definitely wasn't the one who lost the Cup game so it seems weird to start blasting the kid again. I would look at our established veteran players to blame, like Coady and Neves, not Fabio.

Hear hear !

 

[Guzeppi]

I’d like to know what happened in twelve months for somebody to decide his value has rocketed from £10m to £35m.

It hasn't. Inflation is at around 2%, so technically the best it could have gone up is from 10 mill to 10.2 mill.

 

[Guzeppi]

A good thing about this thread is that more and more people are separating the transfer itself, and money involved, from Silva as a player.

The transfer was a fraud. It existed solely to financially benefit certain parties involved. It didn't benefit the club, directly the opposite. It was shocking.

Silva as a player is not a generational talent; Shi, as most people do from time to time, was talking *******s. He's a decent young player who will develop and who has good positioning and intelligence, but nothing overly special about him. Time will tell what level he'll reach.

But his cost wasn't his fault, it has no bearing on his ability or potential, and it helps no one, especially him, to think of him as a £35m player. He isn't, and possibly never will be But what's done is done, and I hope - as everyone does, I think - that he'll become a good player and an asset for us.

The transfer itself can't be defended. It was at best indulgent and negligent, and at worst a murky misappropration of club money for individual gain.

And that, my erstwhile friends, is the crux and the truth of the matter.

The wolf in the North, is a real Stark. He will rule the 7 Kingdoms, for he is brave and honest. And even in this matter he is correct.

The deal was for the present. The kid was just the vehicle. If this had been done in a business context, like for example a Property company buying a small tract of land many times more than market value, it would trigger the money laundering flags. At the least it would invite an audit.
But player transfers are nothing if not speculative and if a club wants to pay another club vast amounts of money on a player, noone can say that it's fraudulent because the parties involved will claim that that is what they believe he's worth.

Fans, of the buying team, who watch in bewilderment will have a different take on it. Fans of the selling team are probably just happily bemused.

Guzeppi out.

 

[Highlandwolf2]

A good thing about this thread is that more and more people are separating the transfer itself, and money involved, from Silva as a player.

The transfer was a fraud. It existed solely to financially benefit certain parties involved. It didn't benefit the club, directly the opposite. It was shocking.

Silva as a player is not a generational talent; Shi, as most people do from time to time, was talking *******s. He's a decent young player who will develop and who has good positioning and intelligence, but nothing overly special about him. Time will tell what level he'll reach.

But his cost wasn't his fault, it has no bearing on his ability or potential, and it helps no one, especially him, to think of him as a £35m player. He isn't, and possibly never will be But what's done is done, and I hope - as everyone does, I think - that he'll become a good player and an asset for us.

The transfer itself can't be defended. It was at best indulgent and negligent, and at worst a murky misappropration of club money for individual gain.

Brilliant and erudite post. Agree with every word.

 

[Super Ted]

Character (i.e., work ethic, drive, motivation, determination, leadership, heart) may be even more important the higher you go in the professional sports career. It's what delineates between greatness and also-rans (see, for example, Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell). Renaldo is a great example where is drive and work ethic really pushed him on to greatness. Don't get me wrong, he is very talented and you definitely need talent to make it as a pro footballer with longevity. But, I wouldn't poo-poo the importance of these other more psychological traits.

No, it's not just the way it works that the usual crowd just jumps on certain players when we have a loss. Some regularly jump on Traore, while others love to single out Semedo (too bad for them that he didn't play long enough to catch some blame).

The hindsight makes it seem right now that it was a stupid move. The Fabio transfer is a long-term investment; we won't know if it was a smart move until some more time passes. And I've acknowledged that it was a gamble by the club, full-stop. I'm willing to be patient with a 19 year-old and not jump on him when he can't hold off good PL defenders, like grown men do (Raul or Kane or Lewandowski).

Even Mason Greenwood disappears in whole games and he has even better talent around him! Btw, Fabio's PL season last compares to Greenwood's:

	Starts	Minutes	Goals	Assists	Goals/90	Assists/90	xG/90	xG+xA/90	Shot-Creating Actions
Fabio	11	15.2	4	3	0.26	0.20	0.40	0.43	2.03
Greenwood	21	20.2	7	2	0.35	0.10	0.37	0.45	2.54

Pretty damn comparable...and let's be honest, Wolves were terrible offensively last year; ManU were not. Also note, Fabio should have scored even more, based on the xG, and but for a lucky reaction save up close, he should have had at least one more. Certainly, he did just fine in the second half of the season last year, for a teenager.

Great post.

I recall a Millwall fan friend of mine describe Harry Kane as the worst footballer he had ever seen whilst on loan with them. He must have been around 19 at the time. He didn't turn out too bad.

 

[hollo]

We should have offered porto 35 million and included vitinha and leite in the deal.
Maybe it's payback for neves.

 

[McSteen]

We should have offered porto 35 million and included vitinha and leite in the deal.
Maybe it's payback for neves.

That crossed my mind aswell.

Here in Norway we had a case ten years ago where a striker with a 50% resell clause was sold on for a very low figure to another club, despite other clubs offering more money for the same player.
At the same time the buying club also payed four times the amount of the striker for an option to buy a 15 year old from the same club. Hence the selling club only had to pay peanuts to the strikers former club.

Veigar Páll Gunnarsson transfer 2011 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Could the Silva-transfer be a dodgy deal related to the transfer of Neves?

 

[KBWWFC]

I bolded the crux of the argument surrounding Fabio.

1. He is/was considered one of the leading strikers of his age group.
2. He was not supposed to be playing much at all during his first year - some cup games, 5 minutes here, 10 minutes there. Why? Because he's clearly not physically ready for the Premier League. No shame in that at 18-19 years old. And, of course he doesn't look like a 35 million pound player yet - Jesus. This price point is purely speculative based on potential!
3. His transfer most definitely was a calculated gamble by the club (Shi) - looking at what happened with Felix, I think this definitely pushed his transfer sooner rather than later.
4. The biggest debatable issue that has nothing to do with Fabio is whether the club should have invested in this transfer at that point point in time, given the first XI needs. We do have the benefit of hindsight in that the worst possible thing happened - we suffered an injury to Raul (and other key first team players). We will have to see whether or not this was a prudent investment - it's an empirical question at this point.

I really wish people would lay off the kid and let him develop without bringing up this argument time and again about his transfer fee and how he doesn't look like Wayne Rooney at the same age (who does? guy is ugly as sin). Anyway, Fabio's very best qualities are: character, positioning and movement, and link-up play.

Character
The kid works his socks off in training, off-hours, and on the pitch and he is a born leader and supportive teammate. He always acknowledges the crowd, too. He doesn't shy away from challenges--metaphorically or literally. Took the penalty in the rain and buried, for example. And addressed the media after one of our losses. He has never, ever hid, even though he was out-matched physically on the pitch. Clearly, he is doing the work to become stronger and faster as it's been a noticeable change in his play.

Positioning and Movement
Whatever you say about Fabio, the kid ALWAYS gets in position to score in every game. He doesn't put them away (yet), but you can't argue against him having a knack of getting shots! He moves into good positions on the field, ready to receive the ball or make runs into the box (which the CMs inevitably ignore). Once he becomes stronger and more confident, he'll be able to maintain his balance better and keep his composure to bang those misses in.

Link-Up Play
Fabio has good awareness/vision of players around him and plays really nice flicks and one-twos with his teammates. We just don't make these moves very often yet. I think that Bruno is trying to get us to do it more (rather than the drive and cross technique that Nuno was big on). Fabio is an intelligent footballer and he will work well with good technical players like Podence and Trincao (and probably Neto). Again, added strength will help him in this area, too, which will allow him to hold off defenders better.

What does Fabio need to improve? Strength, pace (not a ton more, but he needs better acceleration), and heading ability. The good news? All of these things can be worked on with dedication and training (and perhaps some physical growth thrown in). He will get better, I've no doubt. Will he be worth 100 million or more? Maybe not. But he will be worth what we paid for him - if we're willing to be patient. With this lot on the MolMix - I'll not hold my breath.

He definitely wasn't the one who lost the Cup game so it seems weird to start blasting the kid again. I would look at our established veteran players to blame, like Coady and Neves, not Fabio.

Very well put!

 

[ombyman]

To the 'needs a loan to the Championship ' advocates.... At Which side in the championship do you think he would get game time (ie which current championship striker would be dropped to play him?).

Would many (any) Chump coaches want to take him to bolster their starting line up in a relentless and very physical league?

Totally agree. What level would he start? Champ? Lg1? Lower top league Portuguese team? Grasshoppers?

 

[yateleywolf]

Great post.

I recall a Millwall fan friend of mine describe Harry Kane as the worst footballer he had ever seen whilst on loan with them. He must have been around 19 at the time. He didn't turn out too bad.

Was he Spurs record signing at the time?

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

I bolded the crux of the argument surrounding Fabio.

1. He is/was considered one of the leading strikers of his age group.
2. He was not supposed to be playing much at all during his first year - some cup games, 5 minutes here, 10 minutes there. Why? Because he's clearly not physically ready for the Premier League. No shame in that at 18-19 years old. And, of course he doesn't look like a 35 million pound player yet - Jesus. This price point is purely speculative based on potential!
3. His transfer most definitely was a calculated gamble by the club (Shi) - looking at what happened with Felix, I think this definitely pushed his transfer sooner rather than later.
4. The biggest debatable issue that has nothing to do with Fabio is whether the club should have invested in this transfer at that point point in time, given the first XI needs. We do have the benefit of hindsight in that the worst possible thing happened - we suffered an injury to Raul (and other key first team players). We will have to see whether or not this was a prudent investment - it's an empirical question at this point.

I really wish people would lay off the kid and let him develop without bringing up this argument time and again about his transfer fee and how he doesn't look like Wayne Rooney at the same age (who does? guy is ugly as sin). Anyway, Fabio's very best qualities are: character, positioning and movement, and link-up play.

Character
The kid works his socks off in training, off-hours, and on the pitch and he is a born leader and supportive teammate. He always acknowledges the crowd, too. He doesn't shy away from challenges--metaphorically or literally. Took the penalty in the rain and buried, for example. And addressed the media after one of our losses. He has never, ever hid, even though he was out-matched physically on the pitch. Clearly, he is doing the work to become stronger and faster as it's been a noticeable change in his play.

Positioning and Movement
Whatever you say about Fabio, the kid ALWAYS gets in position to score in every game. He doesn't put them away (yet), but you can't argue against him having a knack of getting shots! He moves into good positions on the field, ready to receive the ball or make runs into the box (which the CMs inevitably ignore). Once he becomes stronger and more confident, he'll be able to maintain his balance better and keep his composure to bang those misses in.

Link-Up Play
Fabio has good awareness/vision of players around him and plays really nice flicks and one-twos with his teammates. We just don't make these moves very often yet. I think that Bruno is trying to get us to do it more (rather than the drive and cross technique that Nuno was big on). Fabio is an intelligent footballer and he will work well with good technical players like Podence and Trincao (and probably Neto). Again, added strength will help him in this area, too, which will allow him to hold off defenders better.

What does Fabio need to improve? Strength, pace (not a ton more, but he needs better acceleration), and heading ability. The good news? All of these things can be worked on with dedication and training (and perhaps some physical growth thrown in). He will get better, I've no doubt. Will he be worth 100 million or more? Maybe not. But he will be worth what we paid for him - if we're willing to be patient. With this lot on the MolMix - I'll not hold my breath.

He definitely wasn't the one who lost the Cup game so it seems weird to start blasting the kid again. I would look at our established veteran players to blame, like Coady and Neves, not Fabio.

That’s a great balanced post, one I agree with

 

[Bacon Sandwich]

Totally agree. What level would he start? Champ? Lg1? Lower top league Portuguese team? Grasshoppers?

Right now he wouldn't be anywhere near a regular starter in the Champ. Given the choice I'm certain most Champ coaches would take Chem Campbell over Fabio. But there's no more to be said on Fabio. Wolf in the North has nailed it, Jeff Shi has ripped off every single Wolves fan and people who are determined to carry seeing the Emperor's new clothes will do just that

 

[wolfgar]

Selling Jota and Doc for £60 million and then signing Silva and Semedo for £70 million looked pretty iffy at the time, but right now it looks ludicrous given that we've hardly spent a penny since and have gone into yet another season with no quality cover or competition for Raul, and with Moutinho, Saiss and Coady all starting regularly.

 

[Ned]

A good thing about this thread is that more and more people are separating the transfer itself, and money involved, from Silva as a player.

The transfer was a fraud. It existed solely to financially benefit certain parties involved. It didn't benefit the club, directly the opposite. It was shocking.

Silva as a player is not a generational talent; Shi, as most people do from time to time, was talking *******s. He's a decent young player who will develop and who has good positioning and intelligence, but nothing overly special about him. Time will tell what level he'll reach.

But his cost wasn't his fault, it has no bearing on his ability or potential, and it helps no one, especially him, to think of him as a £35m player. He isn't, and possibly never will be But what's done is done, and I hope - as everyone does, I think - that he'll become a good player and an asset for us.

The transfer itself can't be defended. It was at best indulgent and negligent, and at worst a murky misappropration of club money for individual gain.

Great post. Literally nobody blames Fabio and we all want him to succeed as he seems like he’s got a fantastic attitude; if more of the squad had his mentality then we would be a better side that we are, 100%.

But it’s the timing. It’s only the timing. Forget the fee, it was murky and a backhander for Mendes for his services over the previous 3 years.

The timing of it was horrible though. We came 7th for the second season but it was an unspectacular 7th towards the end with us winning very close games by digging in and nicking goals through Traore/Raul linkups. It had already started to become boring after project restart. Then we got a footballing lesson from Sevilla which sparked Nuno seemingly into life and had him realising that we need more of the ball and more goals…

Everything was set for a few good additions to really cement our place towards the top of the table and to make us a genuine force but then we suddenly sold Jota and then Doc (or whichever way round it was) and replaced them with an 18 year old kid for a record fee and a right back who’s former clubs fans were shocked got anywhere near the fee we paid.

It was an amazing arrogant and self indulgent window by, presumably, Jeff and it’s one that has honestly set the club back 2/3 seasons if not more.

 

[Sussex Wolf]

I bolded the crux of the argument surrounding Fabio.

1. He is/was considered one of the leading strikers of his age group.
2. He was not supposed to be playing much at all during his first year - some cup games, 5 minutes here, 10 minutes there. Why? Because he's clearly not physically ready for the Premier League. No shame in that at 18-19 years old. And, of course he doesn't look like a 35 million pound player yet - Jesus. This price point is purely speculative based on potential!
3. His transfer most definitely was a calculated gamble by the club (Shi) - looking at what happened with Felix, I think this definitely pushed his transfer sooner rather than later.
4. The biggest debatable issue that has nothing to do with Fabio is whether the club should have invested in this transfer at that point point in time, given the first XI needs. We do have the benefit of hindsight in that the worst possible thing happened - we suffered an injury to Raul (and other key first team players). We will have to see whether or not this was a prudent investment - it's an empirical question at this point.

I really wish people would lay off the kid and let him develop without bringing up this argument time and again about his transfer fee and how he doesn't look like Wayne Rooney at the same age (who does? guy is ugly as sin). Anyway, Fabio's very best qualities are: character, positioning and movement, and link-up play.

Character
The kid works his socks off in training, off-hours, and on the pitch and he is a born leader and supportive teammate. He always acknowledges the crowd, too. He doesn't shy away from challenges--metaphorically or literally. Took the penalty in the rain and buried, for example. And addressed the media after one of our losses. He has never, ever hid, even though he was out-matched physically on the pitch. Clearly, he is doing the work to become stronger and faster as it's been a noticeable change in his play.

Positioning and Movement
Whatever you say about Fabio, the kid ALWAYS gets in position to score in every game. He doesn't put them away (yet), but you can't argue against him having a knack of getting shots! He moves into good positions on the field, ready to receive the ball or make runs into the box (which the CMs inevitably ignore). Once he becomes stronger and more confident, he'll be able to maintain his balance better and keep his composure to bang those misses in.

Link-Up Play
Fabio has good awareness/vision of players around him and plays really nice flicks and one-twos with his teammates. We just don't make these moves very often yet. I think that Bruno is trying to get us to do it more (rather than the drive and cross technique that Nuno was big on). Fabio is an intelligent footballer and he will work well with good technical players like Podence and Trincao (and probably Neto). Again, added strength will help him in this area, too, which will allow him to hold off defenders better.

What does Fabio need to improve? Strength, pace (not a ton more, but he needs better acceleration), and heading ability. The good news? All of these things can be worked on with dedication and training (and perhaps some physical growth thrown in). He will get better, I've no doubt. Will he be worth 100 million or more? Maybe not. But he will be worth what we paid for him - if we're willing to be patient. With this lot on the MolMix - I'll not hold my breath.

He definitely wasn't the one who lost the Cup game so it seems weird to start blasting the kid again. I would look at our established veteran players to blame, like Coady and Neves, not Fabio.

Well said. Exactly so. Point 4 is the core issue. Had we already had a strong squad and the budget to spend 50-100m every summer, then this debate would not be happening to the extent it is, and we could afford to be patient for his development.

 

[Peszkywolf]

It is all part of the Mendes roundabout. Pay under market value for Neves, pay more for Silva.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Someone like Madrid or United pay that much for Fabio, people probably wouldn't have noticed. United signed Van de Beek for the same money and he hasn't done a thing yet. But for little old Wolves, all eyes are on him.
BTW all im seeing is support for Fabio, but also major questions about the price.

 

[RMNottm]

Yes, investments take time. If we go down he will get loads of game time. We will not go down but either way…

 

[WolfInSheep'sClothing]

To the 'needs a loan to the Championship ' advocates.... At Which side in the championship do you think he would get game time (ie which current championship striker would be dropped to play him?).

Would many (any) Chump coaches want to take him to bolster their starting line up in a relentless and very physical league?

All of 'em.

 

[WolfInSheep'sClothing]

I love the idea that there aren't a myriad of championship clubs that wouldn't snap your hands off for a golden boy nominated 19 year old striker that has already got 4 premier league goals to his name.
It is quite hilarious.

 

[Contrarian]

A good thing about this thread is that more and more people are separating the transfer itself, and money involved, from Silva as a player.

The transfer was a fraud. It existed solely to financially benefit certain parties involved. It didn't benefit the club, directly the opposite. It was shocking.

Silva as a player is not a generational talent; Shi, as most people do from time to time, was talking *******s. He's a decent young player who will develop and who has good positioning and intelligence, but nothing overly special about him. Time will tell what level he'll reach.

But his cost wasn't his fault, it has no bearing on his ability or potential, and it helps no one, especially him, to think of him as a £35m player. He isn't, and possibly never will be But what's done is done, and I hope - as everyone does, I think - that he'll become a good player and an asset for us.

The transfer itself can't be defended. It was at best indulgent and negligent, and at worst a murky misappropration of club money for individual gain.

I agree with that, some good points.Most of the flak has been directed at the club. After that initial burst/shock when we saw how far off actually delivering he was, most of the abuse at Fabio faded away. On here, anyway, I avoid Twitter etc, guessing it's probably childishly horrendous on there.

The other thing is about "seperating the player from the price". It's often mentioned, that we have to forget the price and focus on the thing itself. I really wish this could be applied to other areas of life. That £1M house I can't afford, for example. Or a nice new Ferrari. Why won't that pesky car dealer forget the price and let me have it for £5k? The point I'm making is that I don't think we can separate cost from the object itself. If Fabio had been bought as a very promising young player for £10M, attitudes would be very different. But he's a £35M player and that's that. Same as that house is a "£1M house", it becomes part of it.

Again though, this is a mistake somebody at the club made. Very naive, at best, to not realise all the further implications of paying that amount. High fees have caused far more experienced players than Fabio to struggle. Somebody among our highly paid experts at the club should have realised this.

 

[Contrarian]

Totally agree. What level would he start? Champ? Lg1? Lower top league Portuguese team? Grasshoppers?

Albion. Pay him to wreck their promotion.

 

[Beastier]

Whether he is/will be a top player and assessing if Fab was value for the money we paid for him are two different things - I do also feel for the player himself for being burdened with such a large fee.

In terms of value for money, I'm stunned that nearly 40% of us have voted yes - based on what we've seen of him so far vs what we paid for him I'd be surprised if any other club would have paid anything anywhere near close to that to secure his services. For me he should have been a sub £10m signing.

Realistically what do we think we'd get for him if we tried to sell him?

The only way he proves value for money is if he really pushes on in the next year or two such that his market value rockets beyond what we paid for him. Hopefully he will go on to be a good player, but I just don't seem him as the prodigy his transfer fee would allude to.

Here and now comparing him to what we saw in Robbie Keane at a similar age group he's not at that level.

Currently the only winner I can see involved in this transfer is Uncle Jorge.

Edit - should have read the survey properly, I thought it corresponded to the title of the thread.

 

[RMNottm]

In recent years we've supposedly decided against splashing out big money on the likes of Ruben Dias, Frank Kessie and Dani Olmo, so it's a bit baffling that we thought spending £35 million on Fabio Silva was a good idea? Each is now worth far more than when we had our chance. Who'd be surprised for Botman to suddenly turn into the second coming of Jaap Stam too after we decided he wasn't worth an extra few million euros because we're stacked at CB?

If I was Fosun after being lambasted for buying a great potential talent for a high price I would not bother again.

 

[RMNottm]

I love the idea that there aren't a myriad of championship clubs that wouldn't snap your hands off for a golden boy nominated 19 year old striker that has already got 4 premier league goals to his name.
It is quite hilarious.

Speak to Championship fans about M "not good enough" GW; according to some of our soothsayers.

 

[JonahWolf]

I love the idea that there aren't a myriad of championship clubs that wouldn't snap your hands off for a golden boy nominated 19 year old striker that has already got 4 premier league goals to his name.
It is quite hilarious.

Quite. I give you: Rhian Brewster, Solanke…both of whom probably have fewer PL goals than Fabio has already.

 

[Manic88]

If I was Fosun after being lambasted for buying a great potential talent for a high price I would not bother again.

They’re probably a bit more pragmatic than that

 

[Manic88]

I don’t get what the continued Fabio bashing is supposed to achieve.

If we did waste £30m then ok, what next?